26 réponses à ce sujet

[Dracon525]

Hey guys. So I know that Knight Enchanter is everyones go-to spec for their nightmare runs. I've managed to already use up K.E in my 1st "learning the game" playthrough, and i'm not planning on re-using any of the specs.

So, my question to the community is: What would be the next best spec to use on a nightmare run?

I won't be going solo, so companions can factor into this. I'm also probably just going to do nightmare once, only for the achievements lol

[tat2teel]

Hi there, I'm doing a Nightmare run as a Rift Mage and am having a blast. I'm currently level 14 or 15 and I'm feeling like a mana generator and Crowd Controling fiend. Sure it's kind of difficult at first but it get's pretty interesting.

[Scofield]

Champion i guess

 

TBH any of them, it really boils down to you as a gamer an nothing else, not even having a specialization an your character can still be OP, having a "advanced" spec just adds to it nothing more.

 

So yeah, honestly it just boils down to you

[Dracon525]

I'm more of a roleplay gamer than a "what can I do to make my character the most effective". Like, crafting doesnt interest me at all, but I know i'm going to have to use it for nightmare.

I was thinking Champion too, mainly for the "i'll never get hurt" factor.

[Exalus]

Immortal specs (KE,Champion) are very safe but kind of boring because the game can not ever pose a threat if it ultimately can not kill your tank.

 

Try more offensive ones like rift mage or assassin dagger or 2 handed templar.

[Dracon525]

For a nightmare run, i'm not that interested in fun. I'd just want it to be over lol

I'm already skipping all the side-content and just focussing on the main/companion quests just go my playthroughs are over faster.

[Arvaarad]

DW Assassin!

Oh, my mistake, you're looking for the second best spec. Carry on then.

In all seriousness, if you really want to speed through, a DW rogue is the way to go. Flank Attack gives them permastealth, which means they can loot the Tomb of Fairel and grab the t3 masterwork dagger schematics immediately on gaining access to the Hissing Wastes. They can also swing by the dog merchant and get some t3 armor plans as well. Then you can unlock Emprise du Lion, massacre some snoufleur for +dex t3 leather, and sneak around mining silverite until FT silverite drops, for +5 guard on hit.

At some point, kill the apostate on the Storm Coast to get the mighty offense tonic, then use it to help you kill all the dragons (rogues are really good at killing dragons). This should level you up into the 20s, enough to make the story missions a piece of cake.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

The nature of this game with easy to find rare loot, rare schematics and very open ended crafting means you can actually play any way you like, build a character any way you like, pick whatever specialization for them and still make it work in Nightmare. 

 

Its like vanilla Skyrim in this regard where you can craft overpowered dual enchant Daedric Armor and steamroll your way through the game with any build.

 

Point is, crafting in the game is...broken...or can be broken easily...

 

I wish developers went back to older RPG and looked at how they did rare and powerful items. I mean in all of Morrowind in Elder Scrolls III, you can only find 1 Daedric Armor. That made it super rare and really valuable. 

[DomeWing333]

The earlier portion of a Nightmare run tends to be the hardest part, so if you're looking for the easiest time, you should actually be more focused on the pre-spec build.

 

Personally, I find archer rogues to be the best for early game because it keeps you out of the fray and gives you the ability to instantly drop all aggro with stealth. The first boss fight with the Pride Demon gave my mage and two-hander some trouble, but was an absolute cakewalk for my archer, since she was able to freely interact with the rift rather than having to deal with the enemies.

[Bigdawg13]

If you want an easy nightmare run, and do not want to use a KE, your options are either:

 

Assassin Archer or 2H Champion.

 

Non-boss fights are trivial IMHO.  Rogue gives you stealth and you choose when and where to fight.  As an assassin archer, you can pick any target and kill it.  So just pick the thing that is causing your group trouble and kill it.  Then re-stealth.  Things go badly?  Stealth and run away.  

 

2H champion dps is great against bosses.  To the death stacks the damage up.  Couple that with whirlwind's damage constantly increasing and hidden blades keying off the high damage of a 2H and you see things just vaporize in front of you.  Where the assassin is about finesse and choosing your fights, the Champion just charges in and kills everything.

 

I would strongly avoid DW rogue unless you are looking for a challenge.  I admit, properly played it is beastly.  But it takes time and practice, and patience.  Reaver has the same problem.  2H templar is awesome but you must keep Viv in your group with revive enabled.  I can't comment on artificer (/hate traps).  Tempest really is kind of crappy on nightmare now that the exploit is gone.  Tempest archer is too overbloated and has a hard time including stealth. DW Tempest suffers the same problems every DW has on nightmare.

[Duelist]

Either Artificer or Assassin archer IMO although I prefer the latter as a melee spec.

The Artificer is a bit more versatile IMO since you can either play at short range with Leaping Shot and Elemental Mines or raise everyone's crit chance to take advantage of Opportunity Knocks.
You also get access to the insanely powerful Hail Of Arrows.

Assassin archer plays more like a sniper.
Pick the thing you want dead, Stealth, make it dead and then Stealth again.

[Dracon525]

Hmm... Interesting. I remember reading on here a while ago that most people saw dagger rogues as squishy and terrible.

In regards to the spec's mentioned, i'm planning a dagger Assassin and a s+s Champion. Maybe i'll just pick a random playthrough to make my nightmare one lol

[Farangbaa]

Hmm... Interesting. I remember reading on here a while ago that most people saw dagger rogues as squishy and terrible.

This is normal I think. I still vaguely remember people thinking Vanguard was a horrible class in ME2.

And then it turned out it was a beast of a class once people found out how to use it. Same goes for DW rogues.

[Arvaarad]

Hmm... Interesting. I remember reading on here a while ago that most people saw dagger rogues as squishy and terrible.

In regards to the spec's mentioned, i'm planning a dagger Assassin and a s+s Champion. Maybe i'll just pick a random playthrough to make my nightmare one lol

DW rogues are squishy, but they can completely skip combat a lot of the time.

Take Suledin Keep, for example. That's the keep where you have to fight two giants, right? Wrong. It's a keep where you have to fight about 10 templars, total. All other fights are optional, including the ones with giants. If you Flank Attack a snoufleur before going in, you can walk right past those optional fights. An archer could do the same, but it would be more challenging, since the generic Stealth ability wears off after a couple seconds.

Pre-Skyhold, a DW rogue can waltz into the southern fortress in the Hinterlands and straight-up steal the key to Valammar, without fighting any of the enemies. If you do that at a low level, you'll get a nice chunk of XP.

People only find DW rogue to be squishy if they try to play it like a warrior. Rogues fight dirty and they steal stuff. They don't attack until they know they can quickly incapacitate their foes.

[sillymonkboy]

This is normal I think. I still vaguely remember people thinking Vanguard was a horrible class in ME2.And then it turned out it was a beast of a class once people found out how to use it. Same goes for DW rogues.

This so much. A lot of people complain that KE is too boring or too easy. I find that if you adopt a hyper-aggressive playstyle it's immensely fun and exciting. It feels just like the Vanguard from ME. Did I mention that loved the Vanguard?

As for second best, that really depends on your playstyle as others have said. Assassin Archers trivialize opponents but are heavily dependant on stealth. Artifice Archers turn their entire teams into fine killing machines. Champion Warriors, whether 2H or S/S, kill a bit slower than rogues, but still do good damage and are immortal. I haven't played Rift Mage yet, but I hear that it's a damage machine. I set Cole up as DW with guard on-hit, in one playthrough and he became pretty much immortal too.

[X Equestris]

Champion, I would say. Combine it with Weapon and Shield talents, and you'll have a lot of survivability.

[McPartyson]

DW rogues are squishy, but they can completely skip combat a lot of the time.

Take Suledin Keep, for example. That's the keep where you have to fight two giants, right? Wrong. It's a keep where you have to fight about 10 templars, total. All other fights are optional, including the ones with giants. If you Flank Attack a snoufleur before going in, you can walk right past those optional fights. An archer could do the same, but it would be more challenging, since the generic Stealth ability wears off after a couple seconds.

Pre-Skyhold, a DW rogue can waltz into the southern fortress in the Hinterlands and straight-up steal the key to Valammar, without fighting any of the enemies. If you do that at a low level, you'll get a nice chunk of XP.

People only find DW rogue to be squishy if they try to play it like a warrior. Rogues fight dirty and they steal stuff. They don't attack until they know they can quickly incapacitate their foes.

 

What's the point in avoiding combat? This game is all about combat...

[Arvaarad]

What's the point in avoiding combat? This game is all about combat...

DW rogues are purposely balanced around stealth. Using stealth strategically is part of combat for them. If you don't like that combat style, don't roll a rogue.

It's also worth mentioning that most dungeons/quests will include some anti-stealth measures, like mandatory fights to unlock the next doors. It isn't like a rogue can dance through the entire game without fighting anything.

[Bigdawg13]

DW rogues are purposely balanced around stealth. Using stealth strategically is part of combat for them. If you don't like that combat style, don't roll a rogue.

It's also worth mentioning that most dungeons/quests will include some anti-stealth measures, like mandatory fights to unlock the next doors. It isn't like a rogue can dance through the entire game without fighting anything.

 

There is a BIG difference between skipping battles and using stealth as part of your combat strategy.  I'd argue that skipping enemies as a solo rogue is reasonable but only for a speed nightmare run.  And even then, I'd rather just kill things and loot their corpses (and so so using stealth).

[Zeratulr]

Non-boss fights are trivial IMHO.  Rogue gives you stealth and you choose when and where to fight.  As an assassin archer, you can pick any target and kill it.  So just pick the thing that is causing your group trouble and kill it.  Then re-stealth.  Things go badly?  Stealth and run away.  

 

I would strongly avoid DW rogue unless you are looking for a challenge.  I admit, properly played it is beastly.  But it takes time and practice, and patience.  Reaver has the same problem.  2H templar is awesome but you must keep Viv in your group with revive enabled.  I can't comment on artificer (/hate traps).  Tempest really is kind of crappy on nightmare now that the exploit is gone.  Tempest archer is too overbloated and has a hard time including stealth. DW Tempest suffers the same problems every DW has on nightmare.

Stealth and run away is great... unless your stealth still has some CD time and all of your burst damage is on cooldown so you can't reset stealth. I decided to try archer for a couple of levels and this happens to me all the time! Maybe I just don't know how to use archery correctly but so far I have a feeling that it's actually Archer who takes time and practise and planning. Basically with archery if you are in a tight spot worst case scenario it can take up to 24 seconds or first kill till you are out of the woods. With daggers it's 8 seconds or first kill. The second problem with archery is that it's next to impossible to get to flanking position in many situations. Besides obvious dps reduction, it severely reduces effectiveness of the wonderful Easy to miss passive (25% vs 100%) with bow I often get attacked by archers standing on the other side of the battlefield just because I one-shot another archer a moment ago. With daggers I'm usually ignored even by archers I attack while standing next to them. 

[Arvaarad]

There is a BIG difference between skipping battles and using stealth as part of your combat strategy. I'd argue that skipping enemies as a solo rogue is reasonable but only for a speed nightmare run. And even then, I'd rather just kill things and loot their corpses (and so so using stealth).

I think of rogue combat in a more general way. Combat isn't just about combat encounters. It also includes things like preparing for combat and delaying combat.

Rogues, especially dagger rogues, are fantastic at combat encounters at high levels (even against equal or overleveled enemies), but they ramp up slowly at the beginning. Many of their important passives require sinking points into useless abilities like Caltrops and Explosive Shot.

The sneaking around helps them survive their early levels, when they have none of their key passives. Once they're past the rough patch, they can sweep in and murder all the things they skipped before, so it's not like they're missing out on fights. They're simply delaying them.

[Helios969]

I'd say after KE (which is ridiculous) Archer with Tempest specialization. Those represent my easiest nightmare playthroughs...irrespective of specialization I find mages and archers easiest, but that might just be cause I'm better at range.  I'm currently doing a 2H Templar which is a lot of fun, but harder than I'm used to (probably not playing optimally either.)  Hardest playthrough was a S/S warrior.  I've done everything but a DW rogue so I can't really comment there.

[Incantrix]

I tried to play a DW rogue, but ultimately quit him. It was just unfun to me. 

[200Down]

I tried DW the very first time I played and all I'd say is it's really not a newb freindly class in terms of enjoyment.... It can be a heck of alot more fun than it initially seems though.  Try out some of those skills that don't look too interesting and you may find that they work much better than the discription suggests. They may even do things that isn't pointed out in the discription.

 

For instance the one that comes to mind is "Hook and Tackle"

The discription doesn't tell you that it causes a stagger on impact. It also doesn't say anything about doing 100% weapon damage on impact with the target. Crap like this drives me nuts and BW should know better.

 

Try this lil combo out which you can pull off very early on. NOTE: It's not actually a combo as far as increased dmg for pulling it off but it sure is fun.

1.Hook and tackle into the face of your enemy

2. Fire off "Flank Attack"(make sure to get the upgrade so your getting the free stealth dmg bonus on the next step)

3. You will now be in stealth and should have broken threat so you just wait a second and your enemy should turn to show you his back again allowing for a nice stealth "twin fangs" attack. If you are soloing the game you'll have to do some moving around to get into position obviously because nobody else has any threat but you.

 

NOTE: This settup works fairly well for AI controled DW if you take all the stealth upgrades. The AI uses stealth fairly consistantly for breaking threat. Far from perfect but at least your not COMPLETELY limited to a ranged rouge if you don't mind the AI rouge dying here and there. If you have a AI tank set up well enough the DW rouge shouldn't die all THAT much.

 

Heck you could even add throwing blades in there for some ranged attacks which is more or less the only real weakness of a DW rouge. And later on depending on what you decide to use for a secondary class..... there are quite a bit more options available for a respec.

 

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As for the best class to do nightmare on? They all work fine if you are using a party halphway affectively. Why limit yourself? Solo is a whole other story... You're limiting yourself pretty heavily on what skills you can take not to mention you likely won't even be able to do some parts of the game untel you are insainly overleveled for the content or enjoy save scumming, dying ALOT, or stick to ranged glass cannon builds only. Classes really don't have enough affective CC available to solo every situation and do a completionist run without being OL as hell or heavily abusing flawed mechanics. booooooooring.

[Big Vic]

I have run a few classes on nightmare and here's what i can tell you. Since you sent aren't planning on KE ill leave that out, as for Rift Mage, although I really enjoy the class and cc is great, it has overall pathetic feeling DPS compared to most other classes aside from a necromancer lol I love the dual wield assassin rogue and done right you can slaughter highland ravager Dragon on nightmare in 30 seconds solo however the class is really rough getting started and takes a lot of close attention and hard work to stay alive and keep dodging and hitting. Last and probably best choice imo is the warrior. I prefer 2h reaver after trying them all. I don't like tanking personally but if your into that then the champion is your best bet. The warrior was a little rough getting started on nightmare but after a few points in vanguard survivability is not an issue and a few into 2h tree and dps is reasonable. Once you get reaver unlocked enemies melt before champions even have time to muster up walking fortress and get into the fight. Survivability isn't an issue if you just watch your health bar and hit devour when necessary. For endgame dragons and enemies, guard on hit solves all survivability issues as you have enough guard to give you the chance to Hit devour when your health is real low to get max benefit. All in all id say warrior is the most viable least stressful class in nightmare other than KE and it's up to u to choose ultimate killing power (reaver) or invincibility(champion). Unless you think you can tough it out until you get the great gear and skills for a dual wield assassin rogue at which point its a very rewarding powerful class!