85 réponses à ce sujet

[ZeroMystic]

(TOPIC)

I created this topic because people keep mentioning offhand in multiplayer as if it affects anything.

 

So to clarify this let me start by saying OFFHAND only exists in campaign which is exactly why you see the word OFF-HAND in the status screen. However in multiplayer OFFHAND ceases to exist. So in the case of daggers, both daggers get used equally and deal damage according to each one separately, and one does not take precedence over the other.

 

This is proven by using an upgraded poison weapons (Infected Wounds) with 2 blade of Red Birth equipped (One having a 148 damage, the other having 149 damage).

 

When poison weapons is activated with the Blade of Red Birth the infected wounds gives each dagger a 25% bonus damage. So 25% added to 148 equals which means the blade of Red Birth that did 148 damage is now doing 185 damage, and the blade of red birth that does 149 damage, is now doing 186.25 damage. That's just from activating poison weapons and not even attacking.

 

When you actually hit with an attack you, wind up doing 46.56 poison damage per second from the Blade of Red Birth that does 149 damage, and 46.25 poison damage per second from the Blade Of Red Birth that does 148 damage.

 

Giving a total of 92.81 poison damage per second and this does not factor in Stealth and flanking bonuses the attack you used. Add in the flanking and Stealth bonuses, and entire total goes up to about 156-300 poison damage per second.

 

The overall point here is that if OFF-HAND existed, the poison per second damage numbers on the screen would even be remotely close to 156 in fact they would be under 100.

 

To shorten this whole thing, I can just say the word OFFHAND does not exist anywhere in Multiplayer which proves offhand doesn't exist in multiplayer. If it did it would say OFFHAND just like it does in campaign.

[Kenny Bania]

[EVILFLUFFMONSTER]

Mr fawlty, he go crrazy!!

[Geth Supremacy]

is this post off the cuff?  you seem to be going off the handle.  Your posts will hold more merit if you restrain yourself from going off the deep end over things that set you off.  I'm not trying to knock you off balance, but off hand items are very powerful and a good addition on the off chance you play SP and MP.  I'm going to come off it now....just keep that in mind.

[Gya]

(REPLY)

Doesn't it make a difference to the type of auto-attack animation? In that if you mix single target and aoe daggers, whichever you have in the right hand will be the type of auto-attack animation used? I haven't tried this in MP, mind you, I haven't got any decent aoe daggers. I only ask because you didn't mention it, and your post was otherwise very detailed and specific.

[ZeroMystic]

(REPLY)

Doesn't it make a difference to the type of auto-attack animation? In that if you mix single target and aoe daggers, whichever you have in the right hand will be the type of auto-attack animation used? I haven't tried this in MP, mind you, I haven't got any decent aoe daggers. I only ask because you didn't mention it, and your post was otherwise very detailed and specific.

The topic is to tell people that there is no such thing as offhand in multiplayer and they really need to stop thinking like that because it's incorrect. The fact si if what you said was true, then the damage numbers would never be able to get as high as they do on a lot of the attacks.and 3/4 of the abilities would not work the way they do.

 

Both daggers (AOE or non-AOE) do not factor in left or right or what one hits first, the damage on both daggers gets applied separately and one does not override the other. Multiplayer is looking at the damage, not what hits first.

 

If offhand actually existed in multiplayer, then the damage from things like shield bash would not work the way they do because the sword would have to hit first simply because the right hand gets factored first so the game wouldn't know what to do. Same with a weapon that activates shield bash on hit. What are you going to say, shield bash damage gets factored on the bow by the right hand because you draw the bow with your right hand?

[Jugger nuggss]

Well, offhand, I'd say I don't care.

[CRCError1970]

I don't know why the OP isn't seeing Off Hand in multiplayer. I certainly do.

Note that the "Blade of Red Birth" shows "Main Hand" and the "Wicked Grace" shows as Off Hand.

[ZeroMystic]

I don't know why the OP isn't seeing Off Hand in multiplayer. I certainly do.

Note that the "Blade of Red Birth" shows "Main Hand" and the "Wicked Grace" shows as Off Hand.

Using a controller creates a left and right so you know what's left and right and has nothing to do with what is being talked about.

[Gya]

The topic is to tell people that there is no such thing as offhand in multiplayer and they really need to stop thinking like that because it's incorrect. The fact si if what you said was true, then the damage numbers would never be able to get as high as they do on a lot of the attacks.and 3/4 of the abilities would not work the way they do.

Both daggers (AOE or non-AOE) do not factor in left or right or what one hits first, the damage on both daggers gets applied separately and one does not override the other. Multiplayer is looking at the damage, not what hits first.

If offhand actually existed in multiplayer, then the damage from things like shield bash would not work the way they do because the sword would have to hit first simply because the right hand gets factored first so the game wouldn't know what to do. Same with a weapon that activates shield bash on hit. What are you going to say, shield bash damage gets factored on the bow by the right hand because you draw the bow with your right hand?

Edit: I guess I wasnt very clear in my original reply. For clarification, I'm referring specifically to daggers.

Er... that wasn't what I was talking about? My point is, when using daggers, if you are using one single target dagger and one aoe dagger, then the auto attack animations and style changes quite a bit. The dagger type in the right hand determines attack style, thus the left hand could be considered the off-hand here. It has, as you say, nothing to do with auto-attack or ability damage. Nevertheless it does change things, for example that twin fangs like leap at the end of the AoE dagger auto-attack chain. My point is, therefore, it can make sense to talk about an off-hand in MP.

I just tested it to double check, and it does work in MP.

[ZeroMystic]

Offhand and main hand are controller scheme oriented interface to make things more organized and has absolutely nothing to do with damage dealing.

 

The game doesn't check to see what hand AOE damage is coming from, or what hand triggered things like poison first. the damage is exactly the same regardless. You didn't test anything because offhand doesn't exist in multiplayer as far as damage goes for anything.

So You saying it changes things is 100% incorrect because doing 100 damage is still doing 100 damage whether you do 30 from the left and then 70 from the right or 30 from the right then 70 from the left.

 

To further elaborate on why there is no such thing as offhand damage first (Or whatever people are saying with this) take twin fangs for example that attack has both daggers hit at the exact same time, same with hidden blades, as well as toxic cloud (Even though it's a passive it's effect happens all at once). And Those are just 3 abilities that PROVE there is no offhand damage crap.

 

Here are pics of regular daggers, (I will be posting pics of AOE daggers once I get them), and you will see first hand that neither one shows OFFHAND or Main hand and the damage you do in game is exactly the same regardless of what dagger you put in either hand.

 

[Gya]

Offhand and main hand are controller scheme oriented interface to make things more organized and has absolutely nothing to do with damage dealing.

The game doesn't check to see what hand AOE damage is coming from, or what hand triggered things like poison first. the damage is exactly the same regardless. You didn't test anything because offhand doesn't exist in multiplayer as far as damage goes for anything.
So You saying it changes things is 100% incorrect because doing 100 damage is still doing 100 damage whether you do 30 from the left and then 70 from the right or 30 from the right then 70 from the left.

To further elaborate on why there is no such thing as offhand damage first (Or whatever people are saying with this) take twin fangs for example that attack has both daggers hit at the exact same time, same with hidden blades, as well as toxic cloud (Even though it's a passive it's effect happens all at once). And Those are just 3 abilities that PROVE there is no offhand damage crap.

Here are pics of regular daggers, (I will be posting pics of AOE daggers once I get them), and you will see first hand that neither one shows OFFHAND or Main hand and the damage you do in game is exactly the same regardless of what dagger you put in either hand.

Edit:
Ok, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume you're not trolling, and ask that you re-read my reply. I did not claim that the left or right hand dagger make any difference to damage. What I'm saying relates to the auto-attack chains.

[teltow]

 

 

homer     envy .... rising     /homer

[ZeroMystic]

Edit:
Ok, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume you're not trolling, and ask that you re-read my reply. I did not claim that the left or right hand dagger make any difference to damage. What I'm saying relates to the auto-attack chains.

I read your reply and the same can be said about the attack animations between a one handed axe, and a one handed sword. However attack animations have nothing to do with anything this topic is about. This topic is about people saying there is offhand and main hand damage, and the game calculates only one, or the average between both. The attack animation changes nothing and is nothing more than a players own perception.

 

And to cover what you said about auto-attack (Forgetting about the animation) this is about what auto-attack does and why auto-attack cannot even be considered in whether something can be off-hand or main hand.

First off The term auto-Attack, means the regular attack the item does when using the left mouse button or R (For KB & M) Not sure what it is on controller. Therefore Auto-attack doesn't have chains/combo's.

 

Sure an auto attack will trigger weapon abilities when you hit then enemy provided the criteria has been met, and so will an ability. For example Walking Death (The dagger that applies walking bomb). When it come to auto-attack, of course the enemy has to be hit with the Walking death in order to trigger it. But then there is hidden blades ability which can also trigger the walking bomb in Walking Death. In both cases Had the criteria been met) the walking bomb was triggered regardless.

 

Chains/combo's only come from Abilities, and have nothing to do with anything being equipped in a specific hand or auto-attack. and or auto-attack animations.

[CRCError1970]

Using a controller creates a left and right so you know what's left and right and has nothing to do with what is being talked about.

Ok, I didn't know that the interface changed that much between keyboard and controllers. Also, if you look at the last paragraph of your original post you state - "To shorten this whole thing, I can just say the word OFFHAND does not exist anywhere in Multiplayer which proves offhand doesn't exist in multiplayer." I simply was showing you that the word "Off Hand" did indeed exist.

Besides, the way I see it... In many games, the term "Off Hand" has become more synonymous with "whatever weapon is in your secondary weapon slot" rather than the actual weaponry definition of "Off Hand" which usually means a parrying dagger or short sword. So if I tell someone I have Wicked Grace in my Off Hand... It's in my left hand. Even if *my* interface didn't make slot distinction, that is what I would call it.

I've never tested this, but the way I understood it, a good portion of your skills get their damage multiplier from your main hand. You've stated that Twin Fangs and Poison Weapons modify both weapons by a set percentage, and I'm not in disagreement with that notion. However, I was under the impression that some abilities only took damage multiplier from your main hand weapon stats. Shadow Strike, for instance, does 400% weapon damage. So it's important for you to have your highest damage weapon slotted in your main hand and your lower damage weapon in the Off Hand. If you reversed them, your DPS would overall not be as high.

Thus, I submit that Main Hand and Off Hand have a distinction in the Multiplayer game mode, though it may not directly correlate to the Single Player weapons model.

Also, you could stand to improve your bedside manner. I'm not trying to come off as a know it all and I would appreciate your return any reply in kind.

[Gya]

I read your reply and the same can be said about the attack animations between a one handed axe, and a one handed sword. However attack animations have nothing to do with anything this topic is about. This topic is about people saying there is offhand and main hand damage, and the game calculates only one, or the average between both. The attack animation changes nothing and is nothing more than a players own perception.

And to cover what you said about auto-attack (Forgetting about the animation) this is about what auto-attack does and why auto-attack cannot even be considered in whether something can be off-hand or main hand.
First off The term auto-Attack, means the regular attack the item does when using the left mouse button or R (For KB & M) Not sure what it is on controller. Therefore Auto-attack doesn't have chains/combo's.

Sure an auto attack will trigger weapon abilities when you hit then enemy provided the criteria has been met, and so will an ability. For example Walking Death (The dagger that applies walking bomb). When it come to auto-attack, of course the enemy has to be hit with the Walking death in order to trigger it. But then there is hidden blades ability which can also trigger the walking bomb in Walking Death. In both cases Had the criteria been met) the walking bomb was triggered regardless.

Chains/combo's only come from Abilities, and have nothing to do with anything being equipped in a specific hand or auto-attack. and or auto-attack animations.

Actually, the attack animations do make a difference, although how significant a difference they make is debatable. Also, if you hold down the auto-attack button, each weapon has a slightly different chain of moves that it uses; the aoe daggers, for example, end with a slight leap.

However, since you've pointed out that this thread is specifically about damage, I retract my point and will derail it no further.

[Purps]

Main hand = aoe or direct dmg.  Offhand does not affect type of attack.

 

If you use an aoe dagger in main hand you will aoe with both weapons, if you use direct dmg in main hand both weapons with only direct dmg and not aoe even if you have an aoe dagger in offhand.

 

The rest of the dmg/stats/procs don't matter which hand you place them in but the aoe/direct dagger does.

[Jkregers]

This topic is silly. Just because you have your own definition for what off-hand should mean, does not mean everyone else does. I can't equip my shield in my main hand...weird. Oh, I can only equip it in my off-hand.

 

There are many valid reasons for using the term "off-hand" in multiplayer. You are not going to convince anyone of the "correct" way of using this term. If you meant to say "there is no such thing as off-hand in multiplayer as it pertains to damage"....did you confirm that when people were talking about off-hand, they were using it as a way to explain a diminished effect? Regardless, your writing for comprehension is flawed, as you started your main argument with, "Off-Hand does not exist in multiplayer". 

 

The people I play with use "off-hand" to describe or theory craft which weaker-than-main weapon they have or would prefer in their "off-hand". 

[Jkregers]

Double post? Don't know why I can't just delete this. 

[ZeroMystic]

Actually, the attack animations do make a difference, although how significant a difference they make is debatable. Also, if you hold down the auto-attack button, each weapon has a slightly different chain of moves that it uses; the aoe daggers, for example, end with a slight leap.

Once again this topic is about DAMAGE not animations, and no animations changes the amount of damage and where it comes from.

 

Ok, I didn't know that the interface changed that much between keyboard and controllers. Also, if you look at the last paragraph of your original post you state - "To shorten this whole thing, I can just say the word OFFHAND does not exist anywhere in Multiplayer which proves offhand doesn't exist in multiplayer." I simply was showing you that the word "Off Hand" did indeed exist.

That's not even close to what I said. I suggest you go back and read the topic again and stop taking parts of what I said out of context.

[Gya]

Double post? Don't know why I can't just delete this.

Did you unequip your superb ring of post duration?

[ZeroMystic]

This topic is silly. Just because you have your own definition for what off-hand should mean, does not mean everyone else does. I can't equip my shield in my main hand...weird. Oh, I can only equip it in my off-hand.

My own definition?

This is not MY own definition, this is exactly what is in the game.

 

All of you people flooding this topic with utter crap should seriously just get lost already and quit changing the subject by taking the topic out of context. The topic is very clearly talking about damage through OFFHAND and how offhand in that regard doesn't exist in multiplayer.

[Jkregers]

My own definition?

This is not MY own definition, this is exactly what is in the game.

 

All of you people flooding this topic with utter crap should seriously just get lost already and quit changing the subject by taking the topic out of context. The topi is very clearly talking about damage through OFFHAND.

 

Is it? It is not in the topic title. It is not in the first sentence. You didn't confirm if they were talking about off-hand damage. 

 

Your PSA is poorly worded. I'm not hating on your mission or your numbers, just hating on the way you wrote it. The tone is aggressive, the writing for comprehension is juvenile, and Brandon Marshall got traded to the Jets. 

 

As far as off-hand damage, as defined by the game, not existing in multiplayer....yeah, you're probably right. 

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

The fact si if what you said was true, then the damage numbers would never be able to get as high as they do on a lot of the attacks.and 3/4 of the abilities would not work the way they do.

 

The fact is what he said is true. The weapon animations are not determined by the weapon in the off-hand, but by the weapon in the main hand.

[CRCError1970]

That's not even close to what I said. I suggest you go back and read the topic again and stop taking parts of what I said out of context.

Out of context? I directly quoted your exact words.

And to echo Jkregers, your writing style is damn near impossible to follow.

As far as Off Hand damage of a weapon being the same as if it's in your Main Hand... Yeah you are right. But making a topic that claims that Off Hand doesn't exist at all is ludicrous at best.

I just ran my own test in MP with my Alchemist and I verified my previous assumption that having your higher damage dagger in your Main Hand is the preferable loadout because the abilities that that take damage from a weapon multiplyer use your Main Hand weapon damage in the calculation and ignore the Off Hand damage amount in the calculation. The abilities you quoted, (Twin Fangs for one), add damage to weapons individually and thus your explanation of the damage was correct for those abilities.

It is THIS distinction where the term Off Hand is important. No, the off hand weapon doesn't suffer a penalty to damage, but the off hand weapon also does not factor into damage calculation for abilities that state "X% of weapon damage". This is how Off Hand is meant to be defined in Multiplayer.