28 réponses à ce sujet

[Chinadrgn]

I was thinking, if the company needs to put out a game every 3 years tops to recoup costs but this causes a drop in quality, how about just putting that time in smaller chunks with more content but each release is smaller than a whole game. 
 

Like The Walking Dead games but the chapter being larger, like the different large quests of the game and the development time could be shorter but each stage of the game could be more fully developed without the devs breaking themselves trying to meet an unrealistic goal. Initial development would take 2-3 years, with the first module fully developed and the other modules planned out and already started. When the first one is released it staggers the dev time and if production is organized and managed efficiently than the company could have plenty of time to really put in all the work they needed for a fully fleshed game. The chapters could be priced a little lower and the devs could see if the game were successful and then continue on or adjust slightly to the market. As a side benefit it would also help with the pacing issue that the current game has.

I would wait 6 months to a year between each chapter if they were meaty enough. Then there's the added benefit of the companies having a steady revenue stream and keeping the level of interest high. As long as there was enough content and complexity. 

I would have loved to see that whole setting up keeps idea fully implemented in the game instead of the anemic "choose your own drapes" deal that it devolved into.

Does any of what i just wrote make sense?

[Chinadrgn]

Thanks. I guess no one cares about episodes LOL

[fchopin]

If they do episodes then I will not purchase, I may purchase cheap after about 2 years so I get the whole game.

[Lee T]

If they do episodes then I will not purchase, I may purchase cheap after about 2 years so I get the whole game.

Same for me, 8'm not convinced by the episodic format. Moreover this format makes player agency near impossible. The walking dead is a very good game but the shortcut they had to go to give the player fake choices made them obviously fake. Every time you're in a position where you can't save everyone, one dies the other is saved, the saved guy either fades in or dies quickly behind because, well budget. You can't write, record and animate every scene in the game with each possible character selection.

[Abyss108]

I'm confused... You say they should put more work into longer episodes which they could sell cheaper... 

 

How is that going to recoup costs? 

[Wbino]

I was thinking, if the company needs to put out a game every 3 years tops to recoup costs but this causes a drop in quality, how about just putting that time in smaller chunks with more content but each release is smaller than a whole game.

Like The Walking Dead games but the chapter being larger, like the different large quests of the game and the development time could be shorter but each stage of the game could be more fully developed without the devs breaking themselves trying to meet an unrealistic goal. Initial development would take 2-3 years, with the first module fully developed and the other modules planned out and already started. When the first one is released it staggers the dev time and if production is organized and managed efficiently than the company could have plenty of time to really put in all the work they needed for a fully fleshed game. The chapters could be priced a little lower and the devs could see if the game were successful and then continue on or adjust slightly to the market. As a side benefit it would also help with the pacing issue that the current game has.


I would wait 6 months to a year between each chapter if they were meaty enough. Then there's the added benefit of the companies having a steady revenue stream and keeping the level of interest high. As long as there was enough content and complexity.
I would have loved to see that whole setting up keeps idea fully implemented in the game instead of the anemic "choose your own drapes" deal that it devolved into.
Does any of what i just wrote make sense?

Not to belittle you but, Valve thought this was the way to go to get HALF LIFE out the door quicker and we are STILL waiting for EPISODE 3 ten years later.........

[Sartoz]

You mean like The Order 1886 game? This game is only 5.5 hours long. Yes, I said 5.5 hrs. You are telling us that you are willing to pay full game price for a 5.5hr game...

 

I interpret you saying that the game company develops a game by giving me one slice of the pie, wait for me to eat it then give me another slice..... are you sure you want to play this type of game? 

 

What was IBM's motto?.. ah, yes... T H I N K

 

 

[AlanC9]

Not to belittle you but, Valve thought this was the way to go to get HALF LIFE out the door quicker and we are STILL waiting for EPISODE 3 ten years later.........

Well, my understanding of that plan was that it failed because Valve felt like they needed new technological stuff in each release. So it's not that episodic can't work, it's that it's a poor fit with Valve's house style.

[AlanC9]

Same for me, 8'm not convinced by the episodic format. Moreover this format makes player agency near impossible. The walking dead is a very good game but the shortcut they had to go to give the player fake choices made them obviously fake. Every time you're in a position where you can't save everyone, one dies the other is saved, the saved guy either fades in or dies quickly behind because, well budget. You can't write, record and animate every scene in the game with each possible character selection.

But this is an artifact of those particular choices and their consequences. It wouldn't come up very often in a Bio game since they don't kill major characters that often. If DA:O had been episodic, nothing you did or didn't do in Orzammar would matter once you leave Orzammar, except for some minor cosmetic stuff in the endgame.I don't see the implementation problem.

[ComedicSociopathy]

[Kantr]

I'd rather not play a Dragon Age game broken down into episodic format. Episode 1 would be the haven section and then waiting months for the rest?

[Rawgrim]

Episodic for an rpg is just wrong.

[Lee T]

But this is an artifact of those particular choices and their consequences. It wouldn't come up very often in a Bio game since they don't kill major characters that often. If DA:O had been episodic, nothing you did or didn't do in Orzammar would matter once you leave Orzammar, except for some minor cosmetic stuff in the endgame.I don't see the implementation problem.

Think of the various way you can handle Arl Eamon's heir little problem. This couldn't be made into an episodic content, moreso since episodic content rely on a strict timeline, you can't decide to come back later after having ckeck things elsewhere in an episodic format.

[Vader20]

Look at Dreamfall Chapters if you want to know how an episodic game plays out... I don't quite like it to be honest.

[MindWeb]

No, it just leads to people complaining that the devs are taking too long to make episodes. Just look at the TellTale forum, with Tales from the Borderlands not having a second episode since it's release 4 months ago. The episodic format is worse because changes are made part-way through, whereas if they take years to make one game it's all one condensed product.

[Eelectrica]

Periodic, quality self contained DLC would be better I think. Episodic releases so far seem to be a failure all round.

Which doesn't necessarily mean BioWare would run into the same problems that other companies have had, but given the scope of some their games, it seems they would.

Also I believe Shadow Realms was going to be an episodic title, and it's since been cancelled so it seems doubtful they'd be looking to revisit the concept any time soon.

[AlanC9]

Think of the various way you can handle Arl Eamon's heir little problem. This couldn't be made into an episodic content, moreso since episodic content rely on a strict timeline, you can't decide to come back later after having ckeck things elsewhere in an episodic format.

Why couldn't it work? If we're not in Redcliffe next installment, it doesn't matter if the kid's alive, possessed, or dead -- he wouldn't be in the episode anyway.

[Lee T]

Why couldn't it work? If we're not in Redcliffe next installment, it doesn't matter if the kid's alive, possessed, or dead -- he wouldn't be in the episode anyway.

First : you couldn't keep every character that could die (that is pretty much the whole village, Arl Eamon's family and Jowan) they would all have to either fade in the distance or die next. This is the least of hurdles as it is already a problem for Bioware, almost all of the "choose something" character in ME1 barely have a scene in ME2. That's also why the ME2 squadmates, who can all die, are not important characters in ME3.

Second : episodes bring linearity, you can decide to leave this problem and go see the mages, which is a whole section of the game, before coming back (and you could go do Orzammar and the Brecilian forest if you'd like). This non-linearity could not be supported by the linear space-time of an episode. This would not be a big problem if you accept to sacrifice non linearity, but that would take away a freedom that is a big part of western style computer RPGs.

[AlanC9]

First : you couldn't keep every character that could die (that is pretty much the whole village, Arl Eamon's family and Jowan) they would all have to either fade in the distance or die next. This is the least of hurdles as it is already a problem for Bioware, almost all of the "choose something" character in ME1 barely have a scene in ME2. That's also why the ME2 squadmates, who can all die, are not important characters in ME3.

Yep. Episodic doesn't change anything here. Or rather, it makes things slightly easier, since now you can just keep the player from going back to an area if you don't want to spend time handling consequences.

Second : episodes bring linearity, you can decide to leave this problem and go see the mages, which is a whole section of the game, before coming back (and you could go do Orzammar and the Brecilian forest if you'd like). This non-linearity could not be supported by the linear space-time of an episode. This would not be a big problem if you accept to sacrifice non linearity, but that would take away a freedom that is a big part of western style computer RPGs.

Sure. I don't care myself, but you're right to remind people that a vote for episodic is a vote for linearity.

[AlexMBrennan]

Think of the various way you can handle Arl Eamon's heir little problem. This couldn't be made into an episodic content, moreso since episodic content rely on a strict timeline, you can't decide to come back later after having ckeck things elsewhere in an episodic format.

Finish Circle and Redcliffe first, and ship that with the game. Some time later, ship the Brecilian Forest episode. Some time after that, ship Orzammar. Finally, ship the Haven questline ("Finally our scouts have been able to track Brother Genitivi to Haven"). If you deal with the Arl sooner, you won't be able to get the urn because you will have no idea where Genitivi went until such a time that you get the episode in question. 

 

Seriously, I don't see the big deal. You'd lose choices and such, but it could be made to fit if you really really wanted. I doubt it's a good idea, but what do I know

[Torrential]

Episodes would be better than no singleplayer DLC, no mod support and no Sequel for three years yes. It at least would show they are supporting the series and keeping people interested in a product they are already enjoying with new content. There is no guarantee you are going to enjoy sequel but if you enjoy the game, then DLC generally speaking is more likely to hit the mark, if it's more of the same anyway.

 

However DLC or Mod support would be far better of a filler for that time than either a rushed sequel, or to a lesser extent episodic content. Episodes could work if the engine was in place and it was all story, so all the work went into characters/story, but that is more like the large expansions we used to get to games. If the game was expanded with an expansion pack, sure that would work too.

[Lee T]

Seriously, I don't see the big deal. You'd lose choices and such, but it could be made to fit if you really really wanted. I doubt it's a good idea, but what do I know

It's not a big deal but it's a loss nonetheless.

When I first tackled DAO the writers managed to fill me with with a sense of urgency. That pushed my mind to assume stuff would be in the game, that in the end were not here. For example I didn't go to Denerim until I was forced to, I assumed I could be capture if I did.

This had a very dire consequence in Redcliff. I felt that going to the Circle Tower would take too long (note : I had no idea what happened there), so I didn't go and I let Isolde sacrifice her life.

In an episodic format those kind of thing would not happen. I wouldn't be able to go to Denerim before it's in an episode and I would know going to the circle was part of the episode, I would know that going to the Circle was probably more important than a sidequest.

Small loss, but these feelings (however idiosyncratic they might be) are a big part of my first DAO experience.

Another thing just crossed my mind. So far episodic games have been short affairs. The telltale series is about 2/3 hours per episode and 5 to 6 episodes per story. And this is with a very basic interface and minimal graphics. I doubt we could expect anything close to a Bioware production in those format in terms of length, gameplay and graphics.

Episodes would be better than no singleplayer DLC, no mod support and no Sequel for three years yes. It at least would show they are supporting the series and keeping people interested in a product they are already enjoying with new content. There is no guarantee you are going to enjoy sequel but if you enjoy the game, then DLC generally speaking is more likely to hit the mark, if it's more of the same anyway.

I know we live in an era of expansions and DLC, but they show nothing more than support for our wallets and I'm pretty sure we'll live without them.

To sum it up : episodes ? why not, but that would diminish the already small freedom of the writers team. Episodic DLC, why not but I didn't buy a Bioware DLC in a long time so I'm probably not the target anyway.

[Wulfram]

I wouldn't go episodic.  I don't think it would work for this sort of game.

 

I wonder if we couldn't have "expandalones" though.  Something like Awakening in price point and size and re-use of the main games assets, but without the need to own the original game.  Putting out a couple of those between main releases could be cool.

[SwobyJ]

I'd rather not. I'd like this timeline:

 

2015 - DLC

2016 - Hopefully even more DLC, but at least info on DA4

2017 - DA4 or at least hype for it

2018 - Latest for DA4, and maybe its DLC

 

I don't mind episodic *DLC*, as long as its of sufficient size. They ought to be at least slightly bigger than any one of the 'main quests' (like Abyss and Winter Palace, for example).

 

I'm okay with 1-2 years of absolutely no content in a franchise I love. (In this timeline example, that'd be 2016-2017, but I'd 'need' a new game/content by some point 2018)