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The firepower of Mass Effect ships


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#1
Reaper-Synthetic

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Ok I shall attempt to do calcs for Mass Effect ship weapons.

Ok this shall be needed.
Now what are some assumptions that have been made for these calcs?
First is that every ship has the same size reactor in proportion to its size as an Everest class dreadnought has.
Second is that the same amount of power in proportion to its entire power production is dedicated for the mass accelerator.
And third is that every ship fires the 20kg slugs.

The measurement of ship sizes is counted as hectometers.

The ship from which these calcs are derived is the Mount Everest class dreadnought. It is 888 meters long and possesses an 800 meter long main gun that accelerates a 20kg slug to 4025km/s. Exact yield for this is 38.72 kilotons.

So I shall cube 8.88 hectometers and it is 700.227072.

Let's start with cruisers.
Human and Geth cruisers are 700 meters in length. So 7 (hectometers)^3= 343. 700/343=2.04. So a reactor of these ships should be 2.04 times in volume. So now let's divide the 38.72 kilotons by 2.04 and it is 18.98 kilotons. I believe it should be prudent to call these heavy cruisers as the rear admiral Mikhailovitch mentions heavy cruisers.

A Quarian cruiser is 643 meters long. So 6.43^3= 265.85. So 700.227072/265.85=2.64. 38.72/2.64=14.67 kilotons.

A Turian cruiser (officially accidentally named frigate in files) is 500 meters long. So 5^3=125, so 700.227072/125=5.601. So 38.72/5.601=6.9 kilotons. Since the Thanix is developed by turians and is said to be as powerful as a main gun of a cruiser, I'd take this to be the firepower of the Thanix.

Normandy SR2 according to some interview is 170 meters long. So 1.7^3=4.913. So 700.227072/4.913=142.53. 38.72/142.53=0.271 tons of tnt. Now SR2 is mentioned to be twice as massive so SR1 would roughly be 3/4 of the length of SR2. So 127.5 meters. 1.275^3=2.07. 700.227072/2.07=338.27. 38.72/338.27=0.114 kilotons of tnt.

Alliance fighters are 15 meters in length. So 0.15^3=0.003375. 700.227072/0.003375=207474,688. Now this is rougly 780 megajoules or 186 kilograms of tnt. Under half of the firepower of a cruise missile.
This means that a round fired by an Alliance fighter has the final velocity of 8822 meters per second.

Now for a kilometer long dreadnought. 10^3=1000. So 1000/700.227072=1.43. 38.72*1.43=55.3 kilotons of tnt.
Now for an eight hundred meter dreadnought. 8^3=512. 700.227072/512=1.37. 38.72/1.37=28.26 kilotons of tnt.

Geth dreadnought is 1190 meters long. So 11.9^3=1685.159/700.227072=2,41. So 38.72*2.41 is 93.32 kilotons of tnt.

Now for a 400 meter ship. 4^3=64. 700.227072/64=10.94. 38.72/10.94=3.54 kilotons of tnt.

Now a 300 meter ship. 3^3=27. So 700.227072/27=25.93. 38.72/25.93=1.49 kilotons of tnt.
With the Normandies we've already got examples of ships roughly 100 and 200 meters in length.

So finally a 600 meter ship. 6^3=216. 700.227072/216= 3.24. 38.72/3.24=11.95 kilotons of tnt.

Why is the difference between the large cruisers and dreadnoughts so small considering a dreadnought is supposed to be the arbiter of spacebattles. I have come up with an explanation. It lies in the barriers. Every time a ship has its dimensions doubled, the amount of area that the barriers need to protect grows four times as large but thanks to square cube law, the reactor grows eight times as large. So per square meter of barriers a kilometer long dreadnought can dedicate twice as much power than a 500 meter long cruiser can. So this means that a cruiser can not punch through the strong barriers of a dreadnought while a dreadnought can punch through the weaker barriers of a cruiser. So before any number of cruisers can even group and take on a dreadnought successfully, they have been obliterated by said dreadnought blasting through their barriers. And add to that the ships escorting the dreadnought.

 

Okay here are the yields for the main guns first:
1. Everest 38.72 kilotons
2. Human and geth cruiser 18.98 kilotons
3. Quarian cruiser 14.67 kilotons
4. Turian cruiser/ Thanix 6.9 kilotons
5. SR2 271 tons, SR1 114 tons
6. Alliance fighter 186kg of tnt
7. Kilometer long dreadnought 55.3 kilotons
8. 800 meter long dreadnought 28.26 kilotons
9. Geth dreadnought 93.32 kilotons
10. 400 meter long ship 3.54 kilotons
11. 300 meter long ship 1.49 kilotons
12. 600 meter long ship 11.95 kilotons

So we know one ton of tnt is 4.184 gigajoules.

And we also know the main guns of the ships are 90% of the length of the ship.

And we know the acceleration for these can be counted with the formula of final velocity in meters squared and then divided by the length of the main gun times two. With this we know how much acceleration these guns have.

And then we know broadsides are 40% of the width of the ship. So with the acceleration of the main gun we can calculate the maximum velocity for the broadsides.

The kinetic energy is calculated with 0.5*M*V^2

So 38720 tons of tnt is 162004480000000 joules. Now we minus the amount of energy the mass adds to it by dividing it by 10. So 162004480000000/10=16200448000000. Now we use the square root to get the velocity of the round. The velocity is 4025000m/s. So 4025000*4025000/1600=10125390625 for the acceleration of the main gun of an Everest class dreadnought. We know the length for a kilometer long dreadnought from the link in the OP. It is 260 meters. So if we scale it down to 888 meter dreadnought we get 230 meters width. And being 40% of the width of the ship, the broadside guns are 2.5 times shorter than the width of the ship. So 230/2.5=92 meters. And now we use the acceleration of 10125390625 to find out the the velocity of the broadsides. To get it we use this formula. 2*acceleration*the length the acceleration happens in=final velocity squared. So final velocity is 1364943 meters per second. That translates to 4.452 kilotons of tnt for a broadside of an Everest class.

So now that everyone knows the formulas I will be using I no longer post the calculations and I will just post the results. You can check them yourself with the formulas and use the calculator of your pc to do the job because I don't want to spend ten minutes per ship calcing the broadside.

18.98 kilotons of kinetic energy for a geth and human ship means the final velocity for the main gun is 2818019 meters per second. So a 700 meter ship has a 630 meter long main gun. So the acceleration is 6302564352. And a human cruiser is 184 meters in width. So a broadside is 73.6 meters in length. So final velocity for a broadside of a human cruiser is 963191 meters per second. That translates to 2.217 kilotons. Now for the geth cruiser. It's 161 meters wide. So 161/2.5=64.4 meter broadsides. So final velocity is 900983 meters per second. So 1.94 kilotons.

The final velocity for the main gun of a quarian cruiser is 2477484 meters per second with the yield of 14.67 kilotons. A quarian cruiser is 643 meters in length. So it has 579 meter long main gun. So the acceleration is 5300455069. Quarian cruiser is 64 meters in width. So 64/2.5=25.6 meters long broadsides. So the final velocity for the broadsides is 520944 meters per second. So the broadsides of a quarian cruiser are 648 tons of tnt in yield.

SR2 is 170 meters long so the main gun is 153 meters long (let's assume the Normandy on the screen is different than the Normandy in the lore is due to the whole visuals different from the reality issue of Mass Effect. And let's assume SR2 has broadsides.). So with the yield of 271 tons of tnt, the final velocity of the main gun has the final velocity of the main gun of SR2 is 336729 meters per second. The acceleration is 370541654. The width of SR2 is 87 meters wide. So 87/2.5=34.8. So the broadsides are 34.8 meters long. Now the final velocity for them is 160592 meters per second. That's 61.63 tons of tnt. Now SR1 is around a quarter shorter than SR2 at 127.5 meters long. So the main gun is 114.75 meters long. And with the main gun yield of 114 tons, the final velocity is 218398 meters per second. So the acceleration is 207833056. Now let's reduce the width of SR by a quarter and it's 65.25. 65.25/2.5= 26.1 meters long broadside. Now with acceleration and the length of the broadsides we can get the yield for SR1. So now we know the final velocity for the broadsides of SR1. It's 104157 meters per second. That translates to 26 tons of tnt.

The main gun of a kilometer long dreadnought produces a yield of 55.3 kilotons. So it's 4810148 meters per second. A kilometer ling dreadnought has a 900 meter long main gun so that means the acceleration is 12854179879. And the width of a kilometer long dreadnought is 260 meters so a broadside is 260/2.5=104 meters in length. So with a 104 meter long broadside you can accelerate a round to a final velocity of 1635136 meters per second. That translates to 6.39 kilotons.

Let's scale down the width of a kilometer long dreadnought for an 800 meter long dreadnought. 208 meters wide. The main gun of an 800 meter long dreadnought has the yield of 28.26 kilotons. So it's a final velocity of 3438602 meters per second. With a 720 meters long main gun that is acceleration of 8211099802. The broadsides are 208/2.5=83.2 meters long. So the round will have the final velocity of 1168900 meters per second. So it will be 3.265 kilotons.

The Geth dreadnought is 300 meters wide and it's main gun with 93.32 kiloton main gun has a final velocity of 6248607 meters per second. The Geth dreadnought is 1190 meters long. So it has a main gun 1071 meters long. That means it has the acceleration of 18228327238. 300/2.5 is 120 meter long broadsides. With the acceleration of 18228327238, the final velocity for the broadsides is 2091602 meters per second. That translates to 10.456 kilotons worth of energy.

Let's half the with of an 800 meter long ship for the 400 meter long ship. So 104 meters wide. 104/2.5=41.6 meter long broadsides. With 3.54 kiloton yield main gun, the main gun has final velocity of 1217019 meter per second. It has a 360 meter long main gun so the acceleration will be 2057132287. With this acceleration and 41.6 meter long broadsides, it makes for the final velocity of 413707 meters per second. So the broadside will have the yield of 409 tons of tnt.

The main gun of a 300 meter long ship has the yield of 1.49 kilotons of tnt and it is 270 meters long. So it has the final velocity of 789567 meters per second. Thus it has the acceleration of 1154474162. Now let's use three quarters of the length of a 400 meter long ship's broadside for the length of a 300 meter long ship's broadside. So the broadsides are 78 meters long. Now let's use the acceleration of 1154474162 to get the final velocity of the broadsides. So the final velocity of the broadsides is 424380 meters per second. This brings the conclusion that the broadsides have the yield of 430 tons of tnt.

A 600 meter long ship will have a 540 meter long main gun and with the main gun yield of 11.95 kilotons, the final velocity will be 2236041 meters per second and the acceleration will be 4629517920 . Now 600 meters is three quarters of 800 meters (being Captain Obvious here), so let's use three quarters of the length of the 800 meter long ship's broadsides. So the broadsides of a 600 meter long ship are 62.4 meter long. So now we can calculate with the length of the broadsides and the acceleration the final velocity for the 600 meter long ship's broadsides. So now we know the final velocity for the 600 meter long ship's broadsides and that is 760108 meters per second. Now that brings the broadsides the yield of 1.38 kilotons.


These calcs are the absolute high end for the broadsides.
One thing to note is that the broadsides probably can not accelerate projectiles as well as the main guns can do but these are the absolute high end calcs.

 

Okay here is a Sovereign Class Reaper:

mass_effect_3__sovereign_class_reaper_re 
The maximum length of its main gun is around 1050 meters from my measurements starting from the top where the top part of a Sovereign splits into two plates and ending at the base of the front tentacle. If we assume that a Sovereign class can fire a projectile at let's say twice the velocity of the projectile of an Everest class dreadnought at 2.6%c, the acceleration for the projectile would be 28971428571 and the mass of the projectile for the low end 132 kiloton estimate would be 18.55 kilograms and for the 454 kiloton high end 62.44 kilograms. The tips of those upper six tentacles the Reapers do not use for walking are around a hundred meters long. So with the acceleration of 28971428571 it would mean that a 100 meter gun gets a projectile to the velocity of 2407132 meters per second. That would mean with the low end projectile mass it would be 53741988416807 joules or 12.844 kilotons and for the high end projectile mass it would be 180908151484445 joules or 43.238 kilotons. The tips of the tentacles the Reaper uses for walking are about 130 meters tall. So with a 130 meter gun the velocity for the projectile is 2744553 meters per second. Low end projectile mass ends up with the kinetic energy of 69864597599978 joules or 16.698 kilotons and the high end ends up with 235166871921436 joules or 56.2 kilotons of tnt. And it should be noted that Reapers have two guns per tentacle as seen in this capture of Sovereign:
fzBgH.jpg

 

So BioWare forum any opinions of my estimates of Mass Effect ship firepower?

 

:)  ;)  :)


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#2
sH0tgUn jUliA

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Two shots from the Normandy SR-2 thanix took out the Collector dreadnought. That's a lot more firepower than you gave it.

 

* You're thinking too hard. A ship has the firepower it needs to accomplish the task the writers need it to accomplish at a given moment.

 

* According to strict lore, Shepard should have died on Rannoch when the Quarian fleet killed that Reaper because there should have been a crater about with about a half mile radius and about a quarter mile deep given the fact that the entire heavy fleet fired on it with everything they had.

 

* Science Fiction writers have no sense of scale, energy, mass, size, velocity, units, distance, etc.

 

The other question is how did the reapers manage to essentially walk on the earth in high heels. Do you realize the million tons per square inch on the tips of those things? They should have sunk in and gotten stuck. But they were able to walk because... Godzilla.


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#3
Vazgen

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I'm pretty sure the topic contains some interesting analysis on ship capabilities but my eyes hurt from reading it with this format. Can you remove the black background from text?


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#4
Reaper-Synthetic

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I'm pretty sure the topic contains some interesting analysis on ship capabilities but my eyes hurt from reading it with this format. Can you remove the black background from text?

I'll try to remove the black background, but as it is it wasn't my choice as I copy pasted this thread from SpaceBattles where I initially made this thread.



#5
KrrKs

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Interesting estimates!

But I'm not sure where you got the broadsides from. AFAIK the only ME ships able to do real broadside-firing are Sovereign class reapers.

Citadel species ships only use area defence laser turrets appart from their main gun.

 

Per your calculations, a single side-ways facing gun (on Alliance ships) can only produce <12% of the main guns firepower. So only 'large' Broadsides (>4 cannons) would make sense->The gun assembly for this would likely interfere with all other internal systems.

 

Visually no ME ship gives any indication of using such a setup. Alliance and Asari ships (likely others too) however seem to posses more than one main barrel.

 

A side not on Reapers and Thanix cannons:

Personally, I can't see a nearly 2km long barrel of any sort running along a sovereign class reaper. I'd say they use a more efficient accelerator setup instead.

The main benefit of Thanix is to bypass shields, we don't know if this circumstance was somehow incorporated into the 'as powerful as a cruisers main gun' statement.



#6
Reaper-Synthetic

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Interesting estimates!

But I'm not sure where you got the broadsides from. AFAIK the only ME ships able to do real broadside-firing are Sovereign class reapers.

Citadel species ships only use area defence laser turrets appart from their main gun.

 

Per your calculations, a single side-ways facing gun (on Alliance ships) can only produce <12% of the main guns firepower. So only 'large' Broadsides (>4 cannons) would make sense->The gun assembly for this would likely interfere with all other internal systems.

 

Visually no ME ship gives any indication of using such a setup. Alliance and Asari ships (likely others too) however seem to posses more than one main barrel.

 

A side not on Reapers and Thanix cannons:

Personally, I can't see a nearly 2km long barrel of any sort running along a sovereign class reaper. I'd say they use a more efficient accelerator setup instead.

The main benefit of Thanix is to bypass shields, we don't know if this circumstance was somehow incorporated into the 'as powerful as a cruisers main gun' statement.

The Codex entry on starships mentions that ships possess broadsides that are as long as 40% of the width of the ship.

 

 

Weapons: Mass Accelerators

Mass accelerators propel solid metal slugs via electromagnetic attraction and repulsion. A slug lightened by a mass effect field can be accelerated to extremely high speeds, permitting previously unattainable projectile velocities.

The primary determinant of a mass accelerator's destructive power is length. The longer the barrel, the longer the slug can be accelerated, the higher the slug's final velocity, and therefore the greater its kinetic impact. Slugs are designed to squash or shatter on impact, increasing the energy they transfer to its target. Without collapsibility, slugs would punch through their targets while inflicting only minimal damage.

Rather than being mounted on the exterior, starship guns are housed inside hulls and visible only as gun portholes from outside.

A ship's main gun is a large spinal-mount weapon running 90% of the hull's length. While possessing destructive power equal to that of tactical nuclear weapons, main guns are difficult to aim. Because ships must be able to point their bows almost directly at their targets, main guns are best used for long-range "bombardment" fire.

Approximately 40% of the hull's width, broadside guns inflict less damage and can be mounted with greater numbers and more flexibility. The modern human Kilimanjaro-class dreadnoughts mount three decks with 26 broadside accelerators apiece for a total salvo weight of 78 slugs per side, firing once every two seconds.

However, mass accelerators produce recoil equal to their impact energy. While the mass effect fields suspending the rounds mitigate the recoil, recoil shock can still rattle crews and damage systems.

And in my estimates the main gun of a Reaper isn't nearly 2km long... it's only half of it.

 

And visually ME ships are incompatible with how they're told to be built in the Codex. Codex mentions that large vessels have decks built so that the ''top'' decks are on the other end of the ship with the barrel of the main gun and the ''top'' decks at the propulsion systems meaning that a large vessel is kind of like a skyscraper tipped to its side.

 

 

Large vessels arrange their decks perpendicular to their thrust axis. The "highest" decks are at the bow, and the "lowest" decks at the engines.

And when we get to Geth dreadnought we see this is not the case.


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#7
Laughing_Man

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Just... use the lore as a base, and headcanon everything that makes no sense.

Don't bother digging any deeper, it's a mess.



#8
KrrKs

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Looks like I successfully repressed that line.

Ah, ME writers,

Main guns: Difficult to aim as the ship must point a certain way

Broadside guns: More flexible, ship must point a certain way

:pinched:



#9
sH0tgUn jUliA

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Also: space combat takes place from about 10,000 km.

 

 

"Take her in close and finish 'em off."