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Patch 1.5 removed some/all amulets of power


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#226
Sunnie

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I fired this game up today after 3 months and although I had to load 1,8 gb and patch this, the game ist still bugged as hell.
 
Hinterland Mosaic still missing

That's been fixed in Patch 6, I have confirmed that myself.
 

Amulets of Power removed

Dumb, yes, especially for a single player game mode. This is almost as facepalm worthy as Blizzard having a stranglehold on Diablo 3 players.
 

Chest exploit still working

And it will continue to work because fixing it will cause a couple other cans of worms and cost tens of thousands of dollars.
 

Still two untriggerable quests, although there is a quest marker.

Have no idea what you are referring to, in 4 runs through the game, I have yet to find a quest that didn't trigger when it was actually available. Example: In Hissing Wastes and Exalted plains, there are quest markers on the map that won't actually be available until you set up camp (HW) or clear the camp and call in Orlesian forces (EP).


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#227
Shevy

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That's been fixed in Patch 6, I have confirmed that myself.
 

Have no idea what you are referring to, in 4 runs through the game, I have yet to find a quest that didn't trigger when it was actually available. Example: In Hissing Wastes and Exalted plains, there are quest markers on the map that won't actually be available until you set up camp (HW) or clear the camp and call in Orlesian forces (EP).

I'm on XBone and I couldn't find the 12th mosaic piece in the Hinterlands today. Google'd the position, not there. Hm.

 

"Securing safe passage" in Emprise du Lion doesn't trigger for me. Once I repaired the bridge, I went over it and killed every dragon. Now the Baron in Suledin Keep still has the quest marker on him on the mini map/area map, but I can't trigger it by speaking with him.

There is another quest in the Emerald Graves with the same problem.

 

They aren't game breaking but since they are blocking my way to level 26 it's kind of annoying.



#228
Sunnie

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Since you are on a console, it will be exceedingly difficult to try and diagnose why. It does sound like an issue that perhaps you are having with a possible corrupted save. Is this your first run through the game or have you had this issue for more than one run?



#229
Maiden Ty One

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In my opinion they should just STOP patching out exploits that are purely optional in this single player game!

 

There's a plethora of frustrating glitches that benefit nobody - like the fact that in certain places we can accidentally open a door from the other side, meaning we have to wait about 3 minutes for the room we're already in to load. This **** is STILL in there after 5 patches - but Bioware would rather spend their time patching out the few glitches people actually enjoy.

 

And before anyone starts - I've already completed the game on Normal, legitimately. I only use exploits on my second playthrough since Bioware, in another astounding display of stupidity, refuse to put a New Game + mode in these games. I use exploits to allow me to play through the game's alternate choices and pathways a second time without spending endless tortuous hours running around collecting the same damn shards and herbs and pieces of cloth from every nook and cranny of the entire game world over and over and over again.

 

I've finally found an as yet unpatched exploit that allows me to do this, but I ain't saying what it is here because I know the moment Bioware find out about it, they'll patch it out too - ignoring all the game breaking glitches, of course...

 

The fact that Bioware's 'fixes' are now breaking other parts of the game says it all, and they shouldn't need any more of a damn hint that they should STOP DOING THIS RIGHT FRICKING NOW!


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#230
Corvus917

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I have to agree with you on most of your points Maiden Ty One. I'm still struggling to understand why it is that a lot of bugs seem to be ignored or left to be addressed in later patches. For example, the misplaced "The Fall" mosaic piece bug that's been around since day 1 was only fixed with Patch 6, despite the fact that modders were able to very quickly and easily fix the problem shortly after release. I really wish someone from Bioware could explain this, and how they prioritize their fixes. To be fair, the glitch with opening doors from the wrong side, while exceedingly annoying, is fairly minor and avoidable if you remember to watch out for it. But failing to address game-breaking or progress/completion-halting bugs with due expediency is baffling, especially in cases where modders were able to produce their own fixes fairly quickly.

 

Honestly though, I'm mostly ambivalent about their decisions to remove exploits, even though I do agree that it's usually pointless in a single player game. Thing is, sometimes (very rarely) exploits in single player should be fixed, though only in situations where they make everything else in the game pointless; the best justification I can think of is that players who get bored of the game because they found an exploit that completely removed all of the challenge and effort are more likely to just stop playing it, especially if they aren't as drawn in by the non-gameplay elements like story, lore, etc. If there is an easy exploit that completely or dramatically eliminated how much effort or progress needs to be made to finish or complete the game, then it's possible that some players who use the exploit will get bored sooner and stop playing and supporting the game's DLC. That being said, none of the exploits they fixed seemed to be game breaking at all, and even exploits like loot and influence manipulation are minor when you consider everything else that is there to keep you invested.

 

For example, I admit to using the influence exploit while it was still there because I wanted to make sure that I could unlock every possible inquisition perk I could get without having to spend extra time farming influence by repeatedly filling requisitions. Sure, some people would and have filled out the Influence meter to maximum, and thus maybe removed some of the incentive to keep playing the game longer, but that doesn't stop players from doing war table missions and the non-requisition side quests since they also often provide extra rewards and also have the potential to affect the outcome of the story. If anything, all Bioware needed to do was learn from this and tweak their influence system so people don't have to grind to max it out, and thus don't feel compelled to use an exploit in the first place. So really, this exploit hardly mattered at all regarding gameplay. In fact, I argue that gameplay is the last thing that pulls new players and fans alike to the franchise; I say that what makes me and many others a fan of the series is the excellent storywriting, the depth and humanity of the characters, and Thedas, the fantasy world with such well developed lore, mythos, and history that it can rival Middle-Earth and Westeros in terms of depth and detail. Ultimately, while I remain ambivalent about fixing exploits, I will concede that it is truly unnecessary here, and that Bioware and EA did mess up by not focusing on bugs in their patches.

 

As for the case of the loot exploit and the amulets of power, I think that this is a case of an exploit that people wouldn't use particularly often anyway since it just makes gameplay very boring if used too much. Even then, few people would have the patience to use the exploit enough times to overpower their characters and party members, and I doubt people would want to waste so much time repeatedly going through loading screens over and over again as they fast traveled back and forth, much less endure walking to the same loot box again and again. It shouldn't have been a priority over actual bugs, but I suppose their logic was that an exploit like this, regardless of how unlikely it is to be abused, would lead to more players getting bored sooner, and thus less DLC sales. But even then, the fact that they created a bug by trying to fix a harmless exploit isn't the biggest problem for me; the problem I have is that they made such an enormous and obvious blunder, and then failed to correct or undo it in the following patch. I just find it baffling that they didn't bother to simply restore the old code that they changed, then add it to Patch 6. I can't imagine that it would have required any effort at all.

 

And I too have been wishing for a New Game +, and have wished for it in every Bioware game since Mass Effect 2. I never understood why they stopped doing that after Mass Effect 1. In a game like this, New Game + would make it a lot easier to experiment with different story decisions with the same character, and thus make it possible to have multiple options for canon stories in future games. I can appreciate the idea that maybe they're trying to add a feeling of finality and weight to your decisions by removing any short cuts to progress, but then the only thing that has to be carried over would be experience level, loot, gold, collections, and resources/materials. They wouldn't even have to carry over influence if they made the system less grindy. But I digress.

 

Anyway, the point I'm making is that Bioware needs to straighten its priorities in its patches and fixes. Exploits should not take precedence over bugs, especially the ones that mess up gameplay. I also think that they need to make a point of publicly announcing and acknowledging the discovery and existence of bugs, and at least release some statements about their progress in fixing them. Because really, I would not have been raging nearly as much as I have the past few months if Bioware had been more transparent and communicative. I remember that they used to at least post statements in forums in the past when bugs were found in previous games, like the missing dialogue for Ken and Gabby in Mass Effect 3, or the backstory glitches of the PS3 version of Mass Effect 2. If the developers and programmers interacted with their customers as much as they used to, instead of just directing us to EA's technical support, I'm certain that they would release better patches and actually address these bugs in a timely manner.



#231
pman06

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Is there still no word from EA/BW about this?  I'm sitting here waiting to complete "Here lies the Abyss".  As a completionist it's driving me insane.



#232
Sunnie

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Is there still no word from EA/BW about this?  I'm sitting here waiting to complete "Here lies the Abyss".  As a completionist it's driving me insane.

They are not going to put the offending amulets back in those exploitable containers. Additionally, those amulets don't prevent you from completing anything, so I don't have any idea "what" you are waiting for.



#233
pman06

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They are not going to put the offending amulets back in those exploitable containers. Additionally, those amulets don't prevent you from completing anything, so I don't have any idea "what" you are waiting for.

 

Exploitable is kind of a stupid word when you're talking about a single player game, but that's already been discussed here.

 

"Completionist" usually means collecting everything, finishing all quests and making your PC as BA as you can.  This absolutely prevents me from finishing the game the way that I'd like, especially considering they've hinted that it's a "bug" by saying they're "investigating it".

 

TBH if they just came out and said it wasn't going to get fixed and that's just the way it is I'd at least move on.  Still wouldn't be happy but I wouldn't waste my time on these boards.


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#234
pman06

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I also wouldn't care if they had just fixed the exploit somehow, but removing the rewards that made it worth doing the quest in the first place is just dumb.



#235
c0bra951

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I don't think there is anything pointless about fixing exploits.  Games set their rules internally.  Nothing a game allows me to do without outside modification is cheating, ever.  So if I can get an amulet of power endlessly from an exploitable chest, then one of the implied game rules is "get infinite power-ups here".  If the devs didn't intend that, they need to patch it out.



#236
Sunnie

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Exploitable is kind of a stupid word when you're talking about a single player game, but that's already been discussed here.

 

"Completionist" usually means collecting everything, finishing all quests and making your PC as BA as you can.  This absolutely prevents me from finishing the game the way that I'd like, especially considering they've hinted that it's a "bug" by saying they're "investigating it".

 

TBH if they just came out and said it wasn't going to get fixed and that's just the way it is I'd at least move on.  Still wouldn't be happy but I wouldn't waste my time on these boards.

Whether you think the word is stupid or not, it is accurate. When you take advantage of something that wasn't intended, that is exploiting it.

 

Also, having those amulets removed actually makes it easier for you to be a completionist, not hinders it. That's a handful of things you no longer have to worry about getting.  But I suppose you are correct in your statement though, you wont be able to finish the game the way you like, with every skill in every tree unlocked. Pardon me if I don't sympathize.



#237
pman06

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I don't think there is anything pointless about fixing exploits.  Games set their rules internally.  Nothing a game allows me to do without outside modification is cheating, ever.  So if I can get an amulet of power endlessly from an exploitable chest, then one of the implied game rules is "get infinite power-ups here".  If the devs didn't intend that, they need to patch it out.

 

I would think that the developers would care more about people liking their game than micro managing exactly how powerful you can choose to make your character.  Almost every successful RPG has exploits or cheats that weren't patched out.

I have never used the AoP exploit, but I think taking away quest rewards because some people choose to make their game more boring is dumb.



#238
pman06

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Whether you think the word is stupid or not, it is accurate. When you take advantage of something that wasn't intended, that is exploiting it.

 

Also, having those amulets removed actually makes it easier for you to be a completionist, not hinders it. That's a handful of things you no longer have to worry about getting.  But I suppose you are correct in your statement though, you wont be able to finish the game the way you like, with every skill in every tree unlocked. Pardon me if I don't sympathize.

 

Not if they add those amulets back later due to the unintended consequences of their patch.  Then that character isn't very complete now is it?  I just don't understand why no one is giving out an answer to whether or not this is a permanent thing.

 

And to repeat, I don't care about the exploit, I want the reward for completing the puzzles that I completed in order to get these amulets.



#239
devSin

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Not if they add those amulets back later due to the unintended consequences of their patch.

The consequences weren't unintended—they removed the amulets from the containers. Those they left were made to be the only thing in their respective containers (they moved the player amulet in Crestwood, and they took everything else out of the chest with Cassandra's amulet in the Fallow Mire).

There's no indication that any of the amulets will be restored. Every character now has access to two amulets at most, except the gay companions, who can only get one.
 

And to repeat, I don't care about the exploit, I want the reward for completing the puzzles that I completed in order to get these amulets.

There are still rewards for everything.

#240
pman06

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The consequences weren't unintended—they removed the amulets from the containers. Those they left were made to be the only thing in their respective containers (they moved the player amulet in Crestwood, and they took everything else out of the chest with Cassandra's amulet in the Fallow Mire).

There's no indication that any of the amulets will be restored. Every character now has access to two amulets at most, except the gay companions, who can only get one.
 

 

Then why was there a tweet from them saying that they are "investigating the issue" of people not getting the amulets?  If you have something from EA/BW saying that those were all intended consequences and that they won't be put back I would love to see it.  In fact, that would be entirely within the scope of my first post/question.  Randomly talk out of your ### doesn't really help and isn't within that scope.

 

 

There are still rewards for everything.

 

Yaaay!  Another gray weapon and an intense spirit essence for collecting 24 shards!



#241
CosmicGnosis

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What bothers me most of all is that the Amulet of Power for the Inquisitor that is obtained in the Fade is now missing. In every game so far, the Fade sequences have always bestowed attribute points upon the main character. In Inquisition, the Amulet of Power, which gives you an ability point, fulfilled a similar role. Now suddenly, that Amulet of Power is gone, and the series' thematic pattern of the Fade granting power to the main character is broken post-release.



#242
devSin

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Now suddenly, that Amulet of Power is gone, and the series' thematic pattern of the Fade granting power to the main character is broken post-release.

Uh, you missed the windows and dreamers that each give a +1 attribute bonus to the player?

Also, there is no "thematic pattern" for being physically in the Fade. It's never happened before.

#243
In Exile

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I would think that the developers would care more about people liking their game than micro managing exactly how powerful you can choose to make your character.  Almost every successful RPG has exploits or cheats that weren't patched out.

I have never used the AoP exploit, but I think taking away quest rewards because some people choose to make their game more boring is dumb.

Balancing the game - which is what provides a set challenge to all players - is an essential part of their job. That people want to break that balance isn't their problem. 


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#244
Sirmalek

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The amulets of power are mostly worthless anyhow.   You wind up with so many abilities points that unless your randomly throwing points around it wont make your character anymore or less powerful.   Even on my first play through I felt the amount of points was absurd by the time I hit 26 that I was just randomly assigning points to characters.

 

The only spot this hurts is the mid game when your trying to level up fast as you can for end game farm but still have enough skills for certain classes to be useful.  I have to agree with some though that on single player game there is no real good reason to fix bug that are not causing game breaking glitches.  Like random lock ups or issue loading into areas , missing quest items, etc.....



#245
SurelyForth

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What bothers me most of all is that the Amulet of Power for the Inquisitor that is obtained in the Fade is now missing. In every game so far, the Fade sequences have always bestowed attribute points upon the main character. In Inquisition, the Amulet of Power, which gives you an ability point, fulfilled a similar role. Now suddenly, that Amulet of Power is gone, and the series' thematic pattern of the Fade granting power to the main character is broken post-release.

 

You still leave with more attribute points than you had when you showed up. Just like DAO and DA2.



#246
pman06

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Balancing the game - which is what provides a set challenge to all players - is an essential part of their job. That people want to break that balance isn't their problem.

 

I feel like you're lending credence to my argument here (not sure if you intended to, if so please disregard).  The amulets were intended to be in the game, but were removed because people wanted to break the balance of their game by exploiting it.  Several people didn't use the exploit and used the amulets as intended.  It was a completely optional exploit  The fact that some people wanted to break the balance in their own game shouldn't be EA/BW's problem, as you said.

 

You guys who are defending the decision haven't answered my most basic question; if it's permanent then why hasn't Bioware said so?  Why did they tweet that they were "looking into it" over two months ago and not mentioned it since?  Do we not deserve some sort of answer one way or another?  It's not like I am demanding that they put them back (although that's obviously my preference).



#247
pman06

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The amulets of power are mostly worthless anyhow.   You wind up with so many abilities points that unless your randomly throwing points around it wont make your character anymore or less powerful.   Even on my first play through I felt the amount of points was absurd by the time I hit 26 that I was just randomly assigning points to characters.

 

You clearly don't min/max and that's fine for you.  I happen to make use of all of my points.  Passives increase stats.



#248
CosmicGnosis

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Uh, you missed the windows and dreamers that each give a +1 attribute bonus to the player?

Also, there is no "thematic pattern" for being physically in the Fade. It's never happened before.

Crap, I totally forgot about that. Wow, my post was dead wrong. Sorry...

 

But by "thematic pattern", I'm referring to gameplay bonuses offered to the player whenever the story takes them to the Fade, whether by dreaming (the previous games) or by being physically there (Inquisition). So, ironically, your post actually proves that the pattern is still present.



#249
In Exile

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You clearly don't min/max and that's fine for you.  I happen to make use of all of my points.  Passives increase stats.

 

The passives are largely worthless. A power-game build isn't going to turn on a few extra-passives, and "getting all possible abilities in existence" isn't really power-gaming when the game isn't designed for it. 

 

I feel like you're lending credence to my argument here (not sure if you intended to, if so please disregard).  The amulets were intended to be in the game, but were removed because people wanted to break the balance of their game by exploiting it.  Several people didn't use the exploit and used the amulets as intended.  It was a completely optional exploit  The fact that some people wanted to break the balance in their own game shouldn't be EA/BW's problem, as you said.

 

You guys who are defending the decision haven't answered my most basic question; if it's permanent then why hasn't Bioware said so?  Why did they tweet that they were "looking into it" over two months ago and not mentioned it since?  Do we not deserve some sort of answer one way or another?  It's not like I am demanding that they put them back (although that's obviously my preference).

 

Well, no. The game was designed so that characters have something like 3-4 more ability points besides leveling. Part of it may well have been because (as we see in the posts regarding the side quests) Bioware assumed people would be underdeveloped and only complete like 40-50% of the content (e.g. finishing the game at level 16-18 or whatever). It may well be that because people are more completionist than expected, Bioware re-balanced. 

 

And what I said was that it is EA/Bioware's problem, since they're job is to offer a particular product. If you want to try and break it, go hog wild, but they're not responsible for supporting your efforts to break it. 



#250
c0bra951

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I would think that the developers would care more about people liking their game than micro managing exactly how powerful you can choose to make your character.  Almost every successful RPG has exploits or cheats that weren't patched out.

I have never used the AoP exploit, but I think taking away quest rewards because some people choose to make their game more boring is dumb.

 

I was talking about exploits, not properly executed game design.  Developers should care if their flawed or incomplete game logic allows the player to bypass their intended rules and design.

 

Almost every human being on Earth has done something very wrong in life.  Knowing that doesn't excuse them.