38 respuestas en este tema

[Arisugawa]

According to the timeline:

 

Humanity discovers Element Zero on Mars in 2147 CE, and the Prothean ruins in 2148. The Charon Relay is used for the first time in 2149. The Singapore incident of Element Zero exposure (Kaidan's mother is there) happens in 2151. The second declared EEZO exposure is in 2154. In 2156, children of EEZO exposure begin showing telekinetic aptitude. BAaT Training doesn't begin until 2160.

 

However, Miranda Lawson is born in 2150. Well before the Singapore incident. Just after the Charon relay is used for the first time.

 

Soo....

 

How did Miranda develop biotic ability?

 

Most of what is said within the game indicates Miranda was designed with her qualities, not modified after birth to accommodate them. She claims that she was not her father's first attempt at offspring, merely the first one he kept.

 

I find it...unlikely...that even Henry Lawson would have been able to pull off biotic genetic engineering sometime between 2148 and 2150, a fully 6-7 or so before children of EEZO exposure had begun demonstrating biotics.

 

So...thoughts?

 

Is Miranda:

 

1) biotic due to genetic manipulation prior to conception. This begs the question of how did Lawson know about biotics at all to engineer her that way (the first contact war was not until 2157, btw, Miranda would have been 7 years old at that time. Humanity would not have encountered alien biotics until several years after Miranda would have been conceived.)

 

2) experimented on post-birth once biotics were discovered. And if so, this begs the question of whether or not it is feasible that she could have been given biotic ability without having EEZO exposure in-utero?

 

3) born after 2150, and someone has messed up the year of her birth. (ME2 takes place in 2185, and Miranda is 35 during ME2 according to her BioWare profile. That would put her birth at 2150)

 

For comparison, the other known human biotics are generally born after 2154 (Shepard, Jacob, Jack, etc)

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

According to the timeline:

 

Humanity discovers Element Zero on Mars in 2147 CE, and the Prothean ruins in 2148. The Charon Relay is used for the first time in 2149. The Singapore incident of Element Zero exposure (Kaidan's mother is there) happens in 2151. The second declared EEZO exposure is in 2154. In 2156, children of EEZO exposure begin showing telekinetic aptitude. BAaT Training doesn't begin until 2160.

 

However, Miranda Lawson is born in 2150. Well before the Singapore incident. Just after the Charon relay is used for the first time.

 

Soo....

 

How did Miranda develop biotic ability?

 

Most of what is said within the game indicates Miranda was designed with her qualities, not modified after birth to accommodate them. She claims that she was not her father's first attempt at offspring, merely the first one he kept.

 

I find it...unlikely...that even Henry Lawson would have been able to pull off biotic genetic engineering sometime between 2148 and 2150, a fully 6-7 or so before children of EEZO exposure had begun demonstrating biotics.

 

So...thoughts?

 

Is Miranda:

 

1) biotic due to genetic manipulation prior to conception. This begs the question of how did Lawson know about biotics at all to engineer her that way (the first contact war was not until 2157, btw, Miranda would have been 7 years old at that time. Humanity would not have encountered alien biotics until several years after Miranda would have been conceived.)

 

2) experimented on post-birth once biotics were discovered. And if so, this begs the question of whether or not it is feasible that she could have been given biotic ability without having EEZO exposure in-utero?

 

3) born after 2150, and someone has messed up the year of her birth. (ME2 takes place in 2185, and Miranda is 35 during ME2 according to her BioWare profile. That would put her birth at 2150)

 

You're right. But remember this, to quote another forum member: Lore in the Mass Effect Universe is some kind of zany free-for-all. - KaiserShepard

 

And remember, when the writer puts a line in like: "You wouldn't know them and there isn't time to explain." It's an ass pull or a plot hole and they have no way of fixing it without digging a deeper hole.

 

This one is minor compared to the Normandy evacuation scene. We can S p E c u L A t e that Henry Lawson used an eezo carrying retrovirus on his two year old daughter in an attempt to give her biotic abilities and succeeded. Why wasn't this ever done again? Well, it may have been tried. You wouldn't know them and there isn't time to explain.

[Vazgen]

What is the source for Miranda's age? Because wiki constantly mentions it but I never seen anything about it in the games and books/comics

[Arisugawa]

What is the source for Miranda's age? Because wiki constantly mentions it but I never seen anything about it in the games and books/comics

 

Her profile on BioWare's website: http://masseffect.bi.../squad/miranda/

[Vazgen]

Her profile on BioWare's website: http://masseffect.bi.../squad/miranda/

Thanks

OK, let's see. Humanity discovered Prothean ruins on Mars in 2148 and there was refined element zero in those ruins (Source). If I were to guess, mass effect physics and element zero manipulation were considered the most contemporary and fruitful field of study back then. A year later humanity was already exploring far reaches of Sol system. Henry Lawson probably decided to implement the latest technological discoveries most of which used eezo and it resulted in Miranda's "in-utero" (since she had no biological mother, as far as I know) exposure. 

[Arisugawa]

Thanks

OK, let's see. Humanity discovered Prothean ruins on Mars in 2148 and there was refined element zero in those ruins (Source). If I were to guess, mass effect physics and element zero manipulation were considered the most contemporary and fruitful field of study back then. A year later humanity was already exploring far reaches of Sol system. Henry Lawson probably decided to implement the latest technological discoveries most of which used eezo and it resulted in Miranda's "in-utero" (since she had no biological mother, as far as I know) exposure. 

 

But why would he have known to do it, when the first telekinetic children were showing signs of ability several years after Miranda's conception. There's no reason to think Lawson would have known about biotic ability after the initial discovery of EEZO and the mass effect.

[Vazgen]

But why would he have known to do it, when the first telekinetic children were showing signs of ability several years after Miranda's conception. There's no reason to think Lawson would have known about biotic ability after the initial discovery of EEZO and the mass effect.

Kaidan was born in 2151 (his mother was exposed during the Singapore incident) and wiki claims that human biotics existed before that. What happened after Singapore crash is that scientists connected eezo to biotics.

I'm also not saying that what Lawson did was intentional. Miranda's exposure could've been accidental, due to the unsafe use of new technology. As I recall, Oriana is not a biotic which could mean that biotics are not a desired trait for Henry. 

[Arisugawa]

Kaidan was born in 2151 (his mother was exposed during the Singapore incident) and wiki claims that human biotics existed before that. What happened after Singapore crash is that scientists connected eezo to biotics.

I'm also not saying that what Lawson did was intentional. Miranda's exposure could've been accidental, due to the unsafe use of new technology. As I recall, Oriana is not a biotic which could mean that biotics are not a desired trait for Henry. 

 

Wiki says, "After a series of starship accidents in the 2150s which dispersed element zero over populated areas, the first human biotics were born, though their abilities were not recognized right away. By the time these children were teenagers, the Alliance had made contact with the Citadel and learned of the effects of in-utero eezo exposure. A company called Conatix Industries was founded to track down exposed individuals and develop implants for humans. There are rumours that, after the link between eezo and biotics was discovered, some human colonies were deliberately exposed to dust-form element zero to create more biotic children."

 

Point being, let's say for the sake of argument that the first EEZO explosion took place in 2149, and the first biotic children were born in 2150. I think that's stretching things. But even then, they wouldn't have started to manifest biotic ability for several years.

 

Even if we say the first in-utero exposures took place in 2147, which I highly doubt, that still doesn't leave enough time for biotic children to manifest their abilities prior to Miranda's conception.

 

By the numbers, it's possible that Miranda was literally the first biotic human.

[Vazgen]

Here is another wiki quote (from the article I linked):

At the time little was known about human biotics, but when the possibilities became better understood, a company called Conatix Industries was set up to track accidental eezo exposures.

"Little was known" implies something was known

 

You forget red sand which gives short-term biotic abilities to non-biotics. As for true biotics, yes, it is possible that Miranda was indeed one of the first.

[Arisugawa]

Here is another wiki quote (from the article I linked):

At the time little was known about human biotics, but when the possibilities became better understood, a company called Conatix Industries was set up to track accidental eezo exposures.

"Little was known" implies something was known

 

You forget red sand which gives short-term biotic abilities to non-biotics. As for true biotics, yes, it is possible that Miranda was indeed one of the first.

 

I disagree. We're still looking at, if Wiki is correct, the first biotic children born of EEZO exposure in 2151 and first noticeable demonstration of biotic ability (without red sand) in 2156. 2158 is the year that humanity really understand that biotics are a thing, 2159 for the Jump Zero station to become the location of BAaT which started in 2160.

 

I don't see the "little was known" meaning anything more that between 2156 and 2160, humanity understood something was possible but didn't know the specifics. This is no way implies knowledge of biotics (without red sand) prior to the 2149-2150 era, when Miranda would have been designed.

[Vazgen]

I disagree. We're still looking at, if Wiki is correct, the first biotic children born of EEZO exposure in 2151 and first noticeable demonstration of biotic ability (without red sand) in 2156. 2158 is the year that humanity really understand that biotics are a thing, 2159 for the Jump Zero station to become the location of BAaT which started in 2160.

 

I don't see the "little was known" meaning anything more that between 2156 and 2160, humanity understood something was possible but didn't know the specifics. This is no implies knowledge of biotics (without red sand) prior to the 2149-2150 era, when Miranda would have been designed.

Like I said, Miranda's exposure could've been purely accidental. A piece of eezo in a nearby lab, mass effect technology without necessary safeguards. The technology was not yet fully mastered and mistakes were bound to happen. 

I don't think that Miranda was specifically designed to have biotic potential, rather she demonstrated the ability in early childhood and Henry Lawson just rolled with it. Oriana not being a biotic fits that theory.

 

I understand "little was known about human biotics" line as 1) there were human biotics 2) nobody knew how they came to be or how do they use their powers etc.

[Arisugawa]

Like I said, Miranda's exposure could've been purely accidental. A piece of eezo in a nearby lab, mass effect technology without necessary safeguards. The technology was not yet fully mastered and mistakes were bound to happen. 

I don't think that Miranda was specifically designed to have biotic potential, rather she demonstrated the ability in early childhood and Henry Lawson just rolled with it. Oriana not being a biotic fits that theory.

 

I understand "little was known about human biotics" line as 1) there were human biotics 2) nobody knew how they came to be or how do they use their powers etc.

 

She cites her biotics as one of the things that was specifically designed to give her an advantage.

 

It is possible, of course, that she's merely repeating what she was told as a child and that her biotics are accidental, but the dialogue does not make it appear that way.

[themikefest]

The plot demanded that she have biotic capabilities

[Arisugawa]

The plot demanded that she have biotic capabilities

 

Sure, but putting her birthdate at 2150 complicates things. She could have easily been born in 2155 and very little changes, aside from the age she joins Cerberus. Having her born prior to the Singapore Incident is an odd choice.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

What the plot demands the plot gets, regardless of the size of the hole made.

[cap and gown]

Umm, its is not the plot, but the script. A writer falls in love with a particular turn of phrase, a particular line, it goes in, and the plot be damned.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Whatever, it still creates a hole.

[Epyon]

They definitely messed up her age then. Miranda was not some accidental biotic, but a very intentional work of perfection. Doesn't seem right if the pros and cons of biotics were a mystery at the time.

[Laughing_Man]

I guess that it's possible that Henry Lawson with his resources had the tech and talent to make her a biotic at some point after she was born.

Lore says that the Krogan were known for using the procedure of Eezo implantation despite high mortality rate.

 

With enough money and talent you may be able to ensure significantly higher success rate.

[Arisugawa]

I guess that it's possible that Henry Lawson with his resources had the tech and talent to make her a biotic at some point after she was born.

Lore says that the Krogan were known for using the procedure of Eezo implantation despite high mortality rate.

 

With enough money and talent you may be able to ensure significantly higher success rate.

 

Hmmm. Nice catch. As there is a lore-based parallel, my original option 2 does sound plausible.

[Undead Han]

Since she is too old to have been exposed to Eezo from the known accidents, I think the best explanation is that she isn't a natural biotic but the result of surgical tinkering at some point after birth. That might also explain why she is not the most powerful biotic on the ME2 team (Samara & Jack are better lorewise). It also potentially makes Henry Lawson more twisted, assuming those medical enhancements occured when she was a child and not after running off to Cerberus. 

 

In truth its probably just an oversight on the part of the devs of course, but now that you pointed out the error I'm going with the above as the most likely in-universe explanation.

[Iakus]

The answer is simple:

 

TIM had Cerberus steal flux capacitor technology, and took a DeLorean to the year 2050 and told Henry Lawson about eezo and biotics, all the while making sure Shepard's parents fall in love at the Enchantment Under the Sea dance.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

You know they could have created an interesting little back story.

[Arisugawa]

Since she is too old to have been exposed to Eezo from the known accidents, I think the best explanation is that she isn't a natural biotic but the result of surgical tinkering at some point after birth. That might also explain why she is not the most powerful biotic on the ME2 team (Samara & Jack are better lorewise). It also potentially makes Henry Lawson more twisted, assuming those medical enhancements occured when she was a child and not after running off to Cerberus. 

 

In truth its probably just an oversight on the part of the devs of course, but now that you pointed out the error I'm going with the above as the most likely in-universe explanation.

 

And this is what I was assuming was the in-universe explanation. I'm disappointed that it was never discussed in the narrative. This is something of a focal point for Miranda as a character.

[SwobyJ]

I honestly didn't think too much about it because I thought the answer was already evident. #2.

 

That she was coddled and manipulated and altered and engineered not just from birth, but in every year since then, until finally escaping her father (thus her obsession with avoiding/stopping him).

 

I don't consider it out of bounds that she is genetically modified in the 2150s-2060s to acquire biotic abilities. She was likely a helpless little girl then. And in fact, as the 'perfect' human specimen, she could also be an easier subject for such a treatment anyway, imo.

 

It is correct that this timeline would make her ONE OF the FIRST human biotics. Yep. She's not a 'natural' one, but again as with everything, relatively artificially created with it. Just because human biotics were just starting to emerge and be understood in the 2150s-2160s, that doesn't mean that humanity wasn't learning about genetics and biotics from the greater galaxy. Especially the economic elite.

 

I don't think there's much of a problem here. She didn't need to have biotics to be considered 'perfect' in 2150, and her history of familial abuse easily can account for something like Henry altering her genes, brain, etc against her will. I don't think it was explored a lot in the narrative mostly because it (biotics) isn't as important to her than the overall family relationships and concept of 'being perfect'.

 

BTW here's a fun video.

 

https://youtu.be/Im3BjUiaSPk