72 réponses à ce sujet

[SgtSteel91]

Fear can make you do foolish things.

 

That's really this game in a nutshell.

[X Equestris]

That's really this game in a nutshell.

Pretty much. It's a theme that repeats several times.

[Caddius]

Since Nightmare claims to be behind the False Calling, and demons have been said to have no influence over the Taint, I think it's safe to say that the Wardens were hearing the Calling, but not undergoing the physical mutations. Which brings the timeline of corruption and the like into question, since they'd probably notice a few months of demon-sacrificing in that they're not turning like they should.

If Nightmare could actually kick-start the Calling of all of the southern Wardens, that would make him one of the most hilariously overpowered antagonists in DA. Which, well, his ending cutscene kind of made him out to be.

[Rekkampum]

Since Nightmare claims to be behind the False Calling, and demons have been said to have no influence over the Taint, I think it's safe to say that the Wardens were hearing the Calling, but not undergoing the physical mutations. Which brings the timeline of corruption and the like into question, since they'd probably notice a few months of demon-sacrificing in that they're not turning like they should.

If Nightmare could actually kick-start the Calling of all of the southern Wardens, that would make him one of the most hilariously overpowered antagonists in DA. Which, well, his ending cutscene kind of made him out to be.

 

Gaider has said before that he regrets putting a time period on the Calling when he first wrote Origins.

[leaguer of one]

Since Nightmare claims to be behind the False Calling, and demons have been said to have no influence over the Taint, I think it's safe to say that the Wardens were hearing the Calling, but not undergoing the physical mutations. Which brings the timeline of corruption and the like into question, since they'd probably notice a few months of demon-sacrificing in that they're not turning like they should.

If Nightmare could actually kick-start the Calling of all of the southern Wardens, that would make him one of the most hilariously overpowered antagonists in DA. Which, well, his ending cutscene kind of made him out to be.

He's powered by all the fears in the world....And everyone is running around like chickens with there heads off.

[o Ventus]

Since Nightmare claims to be behind the False Calling, and demons have been said to have no influence over the Taint, I think it's safe to say that the Wardens were hearing the Calling, but not undergoing the physical mutations. Which brings the timeline of corruption and the like into question, since they'd probably notice a few months of demon-sacrificing in that they're not turning like they should.

If Nightmare could actually kick-start the Calling of all of the southern Wardens, that would make him one of the most hilariously overpowered antagonists in DA. Which, well, his ending cutscene kind of made him out to be.

Fear is supposed to be the oldest and most primal emotion, according to Solas, and the Nightmare claims to rule over fear. It's a bit ambiguous as to what that means, but it implies that he is incredibly powerful (one of the most powerful demons in the Fade, if I had to guess).

[leaguer of one]

Fear is supposed to be the oldest and most primal emotion, according to Solas, and the Nightmare claims to rule over fear. It's a bit ambiguous as to what that means, but it implies that he is incredibly powerful (one of the most powerful demons in the Fade, if I had to guess).

"And it had to be blighting gigantic spider.....Vashedan."

-Inquisitor Ashalt Adaar.

[brisingr90]

I still can't see the logic behind the story at Adamant Fortress...

 

You guys told me they weren't thinking clearly because of fear. Fear of what? death? Grey Warden is presumably dead when they join the order. They sacrifice their live to fighting darkspawn. Fear from unable to stop the future blight? I can take that, but instead reporting their Calling to Weisshaupt or maybe Val Royeaux, they took Magister bait to sacrifice their friends and summoning a demon? What!? Maybe if commander Clarel is being manipulated by Cory, I can see the reasons, but she is not. Even if she is being manipulated, the other Warden just ok with that? it feels like if Clarel order a warden to jump off the cliff with no reason, the warden will do it. And why even Stroud didn't report the event to Weisshaupt? If stroud and blackwall can think clearly, why clarel not? why other grey warden not?

 

This event just break every greatness about Grey Warden in DA:O in a single stupid, irrational quest, which should never happened because Grey Warden fears nothing, and their organization has built for 1000 years old. Fell in a trap of a Magister sounds illogical enough because they should have known how danger and wrong blood magic and magister could bring.

[Raiil]

I still can't see the logic behind the story at Adamant Fortress...

 

You guys told me they weren't thinking clearly because of fear. Fear of what? death? Grey Warden is presumably dead when they join the order. They sacrifice their live to fighting darkspawn. Fear from unable to stop the future blight? I can take that, but instead reporting their Calling to Weisshaupt or maybe Val Royeaux, they took Magister bait to sacrifice their friends and summoning a demon? What!? Maybe if commander Clarel is being manipulated by Cory, I can see the reasons, but she is not. Even if she is being manipulated, the other Warden just ok with that? it feels like if Clarel order a warden to jump off the cliff with no reason, the warden will do it. And why even Stroud didn't report the event to Weisshaupt? If stroud and blackwall can think clearly, why clarel not? why other grey warden not?

 

This event just break every greatness about Grey Warden in DA:O in a single stupid, irrational quest, which should never happened because Grey Warden fears nothing, and their organization has built for 1000 years old. Fell in a trap of a Magister sounds illogical enough because they should have known how danger and wrong blood magic and magister could bring.

 

 

They're afraid of dying and leaving the world defenceless against the Blight. The Wardens- whether people like them or not- are basically Duty personified. Now to the best of their knowledge, they're all suddenly getting Thedas Cancer and who will stop the next Archdemon?

 

Bear in mind that as far as they know, Corphy's Calling is real. It's not like they have anything to compare it to. So suddenly they're all dying and worse, if they all die there is no one to protect Thedas the next time an archdemon comes up for spring vacation. So they basically come up with a suicide mission- zerg the Deep Roads and kill the Archdemons before they can erupt, thus fulfilling their duty.

[RawToast]

Wardens have a tenancy to keep secrets. I would imagine the people of Weisshaupt knew something or perhaps allowed it but that just my headcannon. And why would they go to Val Royeaux? That would just panic the common people who wouldn't be able or willing to do anything. 

 

Grey Warden's aren't immune to fear, they aren't mindless super soldiers. And i think they had a very good reason to be scared. If they all die, then when another archdemon rises, no one would be able to kill it, thanks to it's ability to body-hop darkspawn. And then everyone dies, and they have failed their duty. Also they never opposed blood magic, the last flight and the wardens keep dlc in origins made that clear. 

 

Even still, it's bad writing, though not completely unthinkable.

[Wulfram]

Like Warden Loghain/Stroud/Alistair?

 

Yeah, like those guys who don't know anything about magic and such

[Sifr]

They're afraid of dying and leaving the world defenceless against the Blight. The Wardens- whether people like them or not- are basically Duty personified. Now to the best of their knowledge, they're all suddenly getting Thedas Cancer and who will stop the next Archdemon?

 

Bear in mind that as far as they know, Corphy's Calling is real. It's not like they have anything to compare it to. So suddenly they're all dying and worse, if they all die there is no one to protect Thedas the next time an archdemon comes up for spring vacation. So they basically come up with a suicide mission- zerg the Deep Roads and kill the Archdemons before they can erupt, thus fulfilling their duty.

 

Yeah, the only reason the Wardens have not gone after the Archdemons already, despite knowing their locations is because they've not got the manpower, they don't want to attract the darkspawn to them and cause the very Blight they're trying to prevent and that the Archdemons tend to be in location that are far too dangerous for Wardens to enter safely (as mentioned in the note found in the Western Approach).

 

Using the demons as a mook army to go in and kill them does make sense, given that they believed they were on borrowed time and didn't have any choice but to go with this half-baked, completely insane plan?

[Abyss108]

They are scared because ALL the wardens are hearing the calling. New/Old alike. Meaning there will be no future wardens to fight the blight. Which is why they think they need to kill all the archdemons RIGHT NOW.

[Gervaise]

The odd thing about their panic is that the Calling is an acknowledged part of being a Warden.   Duncan was already hearing the first whispers of the Calling at the beginning of DAO, hence it anxiety to recruit as many new Wardens as he could.   Where he was remiss was in not telling those new recruits why only they are able to kill an archdemon.      When all the Wardens in Orlais started hearing the Calling; their first reaction should have been to think "this is odd, it shouldn't be happening to everyone".    Then they should have contacted HQ in the Anderfels to report their concerns.   Then, just may be, the chief Warden might recall something about a darkspawn Magister having been allegedly killed.    I refuse to believe that there aren't records at HQ detailing just why Corypheus was imprisoned in the first place instead of just killed.   Grey Warden secrecy ought only to extend to outsiders, not their own chain of command.    Still apparently only the Lord Seeker ever knew how Seekers were really created, so keeping important information secret when it should have been more widely available, is not confined to the Grey Wardens.

 

So the obvious answer to everyone hearing the calling would be to go on a mass recruitment drive, not let's summon a demon army.    If having a demon army at your disposal was the answer to the problems of the Blight, wouldn't someone have tried it before?    Clearly Grey Wardens of the past had a deal more sense than the ones of the present.     Not only that, but the Architect made it quite clear that seeking out an archdemon doesn't always end how you anticipate.    Deliberately going in search of an old god in the hope of killing them before they get tainted is not a terribly good plan, since (a) you might inadvertently taint them anyway without killing them, or ( the old god will arise in all their glory with a clear, untainted mind, wipe out you and your demon army and then go on the rampage.

 

So, yes, people do foolish things when they are afraid but not idiotically stupid things.    I also felt angry at Stroud (or whoever) that they put allegiance to their duty of secrecy above the good of the people.     He knows something that ought to have been imparted to the Inquisitor, even if this was done under a pledge of personal secrecy, yet instead he holds to his loyalty to an Order that is clearly out of control.     May be if he had told the Inquisitor the reason Grey Wardens are only able to kill arch demons we might have started to put together a few ideas as to why Corypheus didn't die the first time round and why he was imprisoned in the first place.   As it was, it is left to Morrigan to inform us when we are in the Arbor Wilds after we have witnessed his resurrection through the body of a Warden.    Morrigan could have been more forthcoming too but keeping her own counsel is to be expected of her and she has made no pledge to protect the people of Thedas.   

[Sifr]

They are scared because ALL the wardens are hearing the calling. New/Old alike. Meaning there will be no future wardens to fight the blight. Which is why they think they need to kill all the archdemons RIGHT NOW.

 

Actually, it's said several times in dialogue that it only appears to be affecting the ones in Orlais, not others from elsewhere?

 

Presumably this is because they wanted to con the Orlesian Wardens into going to Adamant, since it's the perfect location to summon demons (and bring Nightmare through), since the Veil is ridiculously thin there, as stated in Asunder?

[X Equestris]

Actually, it's said several times in dialogue that it only appears to be affecting the ones in Orlais, not others from elsewhere?
 
Presumably this is because they wanted to con the Orlesian Wardens into going to Adamant, since it's the perfect location to summon demons (and bring Nightmare through), since the Veil is ridiculously thin there, as stated in Asunder?

It only mentions those in Orlais and Ferelden. What's happening elsewhere is anyone's guess at this point.

I would imagine that is why they went to Adamant. That and the fact that it seems that you can easily enter the Deep Roads from the Western Approach, which is what they would have done if the plan were legitimate.

[Rekkampum]

Yeah, like those guys who don't know anything about magic and such

 

That's funny, because they obviously knew enough to leave the Wardens and seek out help elsewhere.

[Sifr]

It only mentions those in Orlais and Ferelden. What's happening elsewhere is anyone's guess at this point.

 

I know that Loghain mentions that the False Calling is affecting "Every Grey Warden in Orlais", but doesn't say whether or not it's affecting Ferelden, do Alistair and Stroud mention that they're also being affected? (I've yet to do a playthrough with them as the WA)

 

We don't actually seem to get any sign of the Ferelden Wardens at all, I figured that their disappearance was because the Ferelden chapter knew that something hinky was up and had deliberately gone to ground?

 

Those we do see in Ferelden seem to be under the command of Clarel and are hunting the Warden-ally on the down-low, since it's unlikely that the Warden-Commander of Ferelden (whoever it is) would appreciate knowing that the Orlesian Wardens are violating their jurisdiction by coming into their territory to hunt down a fellow Warden, without getting their permission first?

[Raiil]

The odd thing about their panic is that the Calling is an acknowledged part of being a Warden.   Duncan was already hearing the first whispers of the Calling at the beginning of DAO, hence it anxiety to recruit as many new Wardens as he could.   Where he was remiss was in not telling those new recruits why only they are able to kill an archdemon.      When all the Wardens in Orlais started hearing the Calling; their first reaction should have been to think "this is odd, it shouldn't be happening to everyone".    Then they should have contacted HQ in the Anderfels to report their concerns.   Then, just may be, the chief Warden might recall something about a darkspawn Magister having been allegedly killed.    I refuse to believe that there aren't records at HQ detailing just why Corypheus was imprisoned in the first place instead of just killed.   Grey Warden secrecy ought only to extend to outsiders, not their own chain of command.    Still apparently only the Lord Seeker ever knew how Seekers were really created, so keeping important information secret when it should have been more widely available, is not confined to the Grey Wardens.

 

So the obvious answer to everyone hearing the calling would be to go on a mass recruitment drive, not let's summon a demon army.    If having a demon army at your disposal was the answer to the problems of the Blight, wouldn't someone have tried it before?    Clearly Grey Wardens of the past had a deal more sense than the ones of the present.     Not only that, but the Architect made it quite clear that seeking out an archdemon doesn't always end how you anticipate.    Deliberately going in search of an old god in the hope of killing them before they get tainted is not a terribly good plan, since (a) you might inadvertently taint them anyway without killing them, or ( the old god will arise in all their glory with a clear, untainted mind, wipe out you and your demon army and then go on the rampage.

 

So, yes, people do foolish things when they are afraid but not idiotically stupid things.    I also felt angry at Stroud (or whoever) that they put allegiance to their duty of secrecy above the good of the people.     He knows something that ought to have been imparted to the Inquisitor, even if this was done under a pledge of personal secrecy, yet instead he holds to his loyalty to an Order that is clearly out of control.     May be if he had told the Inquisitor the reason Grey Wardens are only able to kill arch demons we might have started to put together a few ideas as to why Corypheus didn't die the first time round and why he was imprisoned in the first place.   As it was, it is left to Morrigan to inform us when we are in the Arbor Wilds after we have witnessed his resurrection through the body of a Warden.    Morrigan could have been more forthcoming too but keeping her own counsel is to be expected of her and she has made no pledge to protect the people of Thedas.   

 

 

Erm, no. The Calling is not unusual but everyone getting it at the same time is unheard of. Imagine if the Warden-Commander and Alistair had been getting theirs at the same time as Riordan. People would have wondered what was going on.

 

And no, a mass recruitment drive would not have been the smart answer. It's not a Blight, people are going to push back against mass conscription and if there's a 1/3 fatality on average rate, they're going to kill off a lot of people unnecessarily. A demon army solves their problem immediately and gives them an army that doesn't need to eat, sleep, or drink, and can keep moving. 

[Rekkampum]

Erm, no. The Calling is not unusual but everyone getting it at the same time is unheard of. Imagine if the Warden-Commander and Alistair had been getting theirs at the same time as Riordan. People would have wondered what was going on.

 

And no, a mass recruitment drive would not have been the smart answer. It's not a Blight, people are going to push back against mass conscription and if there's a 1/3 fatality on average rate, they're going to kill off a lot of people unnecessarily. A demon army solves their problem immediately and gives them an army that doesn't need to eat, sleep, or drink, and can keep moving. 

 

Exactly. Although, however, it isn't exactly certain that Corypheus' dragon is not an archdaemon until later in the game, and not to the general public, at least. People could try to push back against conscription, but Wardens would have the ability to supercede that right through the treaties. Nonetheless, given their propensity for using any means - including Blood Magic, as Vigil's Keep showed - to stop the Blight, etc., lends credulity to their decision to kill the Old Gods instead. The Venatori of course, obviously had a decisive role in the choice and most likely were seen as a miraculous window of opportunity when the false Calling manifested.

[leaguer of one]

Erm, no. The Calling is not unusual but everyone getting it at the same time is unheard of. Imagine if the Warden-Commander and Alistair had been getting theirs at the same time as Riordan. People would have wondered what was going on.

 

And no, a mass recruitment drive would not have been the smart answer. It's not a Blight, people are going to push back against mass conscription and if there's a 1/3 fatality on average rate, they're going to kill off a lot of people unnecessarily. A demon army solves their problem immediately and gives them an army that doesn't need to eat, sleep, or drink, and can keep moving. 

A better awnser would of been training people in the ways of the warden without the use of the joining. The concepts, ideals, skills, knowledge, and abilities of the wardens that need to live on. Not the wardens themselves. As long as that lives on any blight can be stopped. It's not that first time the the wardens were nearly wiped out. Heck, last flight had most of the wardens in the 4th blight killed off.

[leaguer of one]

Exactly. Although, however, it isn't exactly certain that Corypheus' dragon is not an archdaemon until later in the game, and not to the general public, at least. People could try to push back against conscription, but Wardens would have the ability to supercede that right through the treaties. Nonetheless, given their propensity for using any means - including Blood Magic, as Vigil's Keep showed - to stop the Blight, etc., lends credulity to their decision to kill the Old Gods instead. The Venatori of course, obviously had a decisive role in the choice and most likely were seen as a miraculous window of opportunity when the false Calling manifested.

No one, not even the wardens know about the dragon till later. So they can't use that.

[Sifr]

A better awnser would of been training people in the ways of the warden without the use of the joining. The concepts, ideals, skills, knowledge, and abilities of the wardens that need to live on. Not the wardens themselves. As long as that lives on any blight can be stopped. It's not that first time the the wardens were nearly wiped out. Heck, last flight had most of the wardens in the 4th blight killed off.

 

Except without the taint, these Wardens would lack the enhanced stamina, ability to sense the darkspawn and immunity to the taint, as well as means to take down the Archdemon? There was a reason the Wardens chose to use the taint in the first place, instead of just remaining as normal soldiers?

[Raiil]

A better awnser would of been training people in the ways of the warden without the use of the joining. The concepts, ideals, skills, knowledge, and abilities of the wardens that need to live on. Not the wardens themselves. As long as that lives on any blight can be stopped. It's not that first time the the wardens were nearly wiped out. Heck, last flight had most of the wardens in the 4th blight killed off.

 

 

What?

 

The fundamental part of being a Warden is the joining. There are no special Wardeny fighting styles in game, no unique magic or sick ninja moves- the most important, core part of being a Warden is being a Warden. You cannot stop a Blight without a Warden. How is the 'way'- whatever that means- better than stopping the Blight?

[leaguer of one]

Except without the taint, these Wardens would lack the enhanced stamina, ability to sense the darkspawn and immunity to the taint, as well as means to take down the Archdemon? There was a reason the Wardens chose to use the taint in the first place, instead of just remaining as normal soldiers?

I never said they should not take the joining. I just mean they just take it when needed. If a blights going on or someone get's infected...Do the joining. If not, no joining needed.