374 réponses à ce sujet

[Syrellaris]

DeeLite808 wrote...

HDtV snobs are awesomely funny to see their replies

Syrellaris wrote...
1) Logically you shoudn't buy a television for a game. But using a 10(***)+ year old Television is not the reason to blame the developers for not being able to read there fonts on your severely outdated tv.
*** Assuming

SDtVS aren't outdated. They are still being sold in Walmarts and Targets around the country. I bought my gaming TV set only 7 years ago. The most recent tv set i bought was 3 years ago. Both are SDTV.

HDTV's came out 6 years ago, and STILL have yet to become standard in every home in America.

All they would need to do to TEST to see if the text can be seen on a normal SDTV is to output the game at 480p on a 27" HDTV set. IF its too small to see on that, then its tOO small to see on ANY screen.

2) If your Eye sight isnt that great and you cant read the small texts, called subtitles in games and movies. Then it is time to get your eyes checked.

There are people out there that have corrected vision to only so much .That's with glasses or contacts. My cousin is 2 points off of being legally blind, and his glasses can only correct to 20/40 (otherwise its a $5000 surgery to get to 20/20 something he can't afford). That means he can't legally drive. Yet he plays video games. He plays RPG's and FPS just fine, but he doesn't need to sit 1 foot from the tv set in order to play it. The TEXT that do appear in these games are just fine to read.

Also, this can become an ADA issue if someone decides to PURSUE it as legal case.  All products sold must be able to be accessed by anyone, including those who are close to legally blind. If a game has unreable text, and these texts are important to advancement of the game in plot and story, then it can become a huge legal issue on both EA and BioWare to offer a fix.

I personally had LASIK done. That means I have 20/20 vision. I can't read the text.

3)THe problem, again, lies not with the game.

The problem is with the game, A DESIGN issue problem that could have been caught had they NOT made a decision to make the text 60% smaller than the text in ME1. 

THEY HAD complaints about ME1 about text not being able to be read especially on the star maps, and here they decide to go smaller...

I mean, WTF ?

THEY knew they had a text problem from the FIRST game.

4)The game buyers not having decent new age tv's, is not a design flaw.

as stated earlier in this thread. IF you HDTV snobs can spare the $1200 each to buy us SDTV owners an HDTV set, then we wotn complain (but again, even HDTV owners are complaining anyway)

I am afraid SDTV's are outdated. They are not even being sold anymore in stores around Holland. Not new atleast. You can find the occosional one in the store that wasnt sold, but in most cases they are HDready or HDTV's flatscreens. Plasma tv's has been banned in europe for sales.

No matter a SD tv is being sold now or earlier, the technology they drive on is outdated.

I have a -3.25 and a -3.50 in my eyes and I use glasses and contacts. Im sitting 4 meters away from the tv and I can see the subtitles fine. There wont be any legal issues either, because there is no case to base it on. 

The mass effect 1 subtitles were small, but not so small they were unreadable.  In fact, the subtitles on mass effect 2 are larger then those in ME1. Again, learn how to use your xbox console settings and tv settings to produce better viewing pleasures.

Screaming you know how to, but then giving clear indication by triple posting, that you dont have a single clue, is not going to solve your issue.

[YakoHako]

I had no trouble reading text on my small HDTV. If you got a small HDTV instead of a gigantic SDTV, you'd have no trouble reading the text. HD is not the future, it's the present. If you're still playing new games on your new(ish) console on a TV that's 15 years old, that's not BioWare's problem.

[HKoli]

YakoHako wrote...

I had no trouble reading text on my small HDTV. If you got a small HDTV instead of a gigantic SDTV, you'd have no trouble reading the text. HD is not the future, it's the present. If you're still playing new games on your new(ish) console on a TV that's 15 years old, that's not BioWare's problem.

If ALL of my other games work on my TV, except Mass Effect2, then it is Bioware's problem.

[BloPant]

YakoHako wrote...

If you're still playing new games on your new(ish) console on a TV that's 15 years old, that's not BioWare's problem.

and what about my 4 year old SDTV? it's newer then my xbox!

again I think the main problem here is bioware went in the HDTV direction (which I can understand) but didnt tell anyone.

[Disassemble]

And, again, as a number of HD owners have reported this problem, it is NOT an HD vs SD issue. It may not affect the majority of HD owners, but, as made evident by the people with an HD television who have reported problems, this is an HD issue as well.

[Altanese]

Just a thought, but has anyone considered that it's an issue with dynamic ratio and static ratio? All SDTVs and some HDTVs have static ratio, so maybe that would explain it...

[Syrellaris]

Altanese wrote...

Just a thought, but has anyone considered that it's an issue with dynamic ratio and static ratio? All SDTVs and some HDTVs have static ratio, so maybe that would explain it...

Which is fully adjustable at the xbox settings on on newer tv's aswell in those options, hence I have been saying that people do not understand how to use settings of there hardware the correct way.

[Disassemble]

Then why not tell us how?

[DeeLite808]

I have played with every setting on my TV and Xbox 360 to no avail. I have Dynamic Mode on my SDTV (including Video Game Mode). It did nothing to make the text clearer to read or even "bigger" to read.

The issue as has been repeated over and over and over and over and over and over again, is that the size chosen is WAY too small to read, EVEN on some HDTV's

Modifié par DeeLite808, 03 février 2010 - 07:24 .

[DeeLite808]

YakoHako wrote...

 If you're still playing new games on your new(ish) console on a TV that's 15 years old, that's not BioWare's problem.

If you bothered to read the thread, some of us have SDTV's that are pretty fairly new. My SDTV is only 5 or 6 years old (I bought it when Halo 2 was in its second year of release). By any standard that is not old at all.  I have a DVD player that older than my TV set.

[Disassemble]

http://arstechnica.c...gn-decision.ars

[ace22b]

Whatever changes Bioware makes hopefully it will be an options toggle. I hate reading HUGE 60pt text on my hdtv.

[i1983]

We all know that everything looks and plays better in HD and that new HDTV's are relatively cheap nowadays. But AGAIN, this is NOT a SDTV vs HDTV debate. As of january 2010, 46% of the US households has at least one HDTV (link to study below). i.e., the majority (54%) of the US population does not.

I have a 40" SDTV that I never watch. I buy 1 or 2 games a year at most. MS2 is the first game I bought since MS1. If BioWare didn't want me to play MS2 on a SDTV, they should have said so on the box. They didn't. There is false advertising under the Lanham Act when a representation that is made is untrue "as a result of the failure to disclose a material fact."

Study : http://www.leichtman.../hdtvstudy.html

Modifié par i1983, 03 février 2010 - 10:31 .

[Tails88]

ace22b wrote...

Whatever changes Bioware makes hopefully it will be an options toggle. I hate reading HUGE 60pt text on my hdtv.

Don't worry, no one here is asking for huge text. Just readable.
(even if I have to admit that the subtitles in Ninja Gaiden 2 were perfect for me, since they were very big and I play 2-3 meters away from the TV ---> www.youtube.com/watch -intro spanish version, around 1:45-).


If you look at the cinematic trailer they've released some time ago, I mean one with subtitles (...I mean a non-English one ):

www.youtube.com/watch -italian version-

You can see that the subtitles are much bigger than the ones in the game. So THEY KNEW that they must use a font big enough to be read by everyone.
They knew it in the trailer, but they've chosen for a different "design choice" in the game.

I don't know how to tell this better, what they've done with the font in the final game... simply makes - no - sense.

Modifié par Tails88, 03 février 2010 - 09:41 .

[BloPant]

well I decide to take all the "helpful" peoples advice. I went out and bought an HDTV. I've been meaning to pick one up anyways so this was as good an excuse as anything else. and you know what? the text while now just readable, is still small.

[Bakushu]

(playing on HD TV)



Is it any smaller than it was in ME1? I agree it's too small and makes my eyes tired - or maybe that's just from playing it 11 hours a day



While I understand it was a "design decision," it's a shame to miss out on some of those planet texts. The codex has narration, otherwise it'd be grumped about as well. Considering the number of design decisions I absolutely love, this isn't a really big deal to me. But, hopefully this flak will generate an improvement in ME3. Enhanced text size, please, for my eyes' sake.

[Syrellaris]

i1983 wrote...

We all know that everything looks and plays better in HD and that new HDTV's are relatively cheap nowadays. But AGAIN, this is NOT a SDTV vs HDTV debate. As of january 2010, 46% of the US households has at least one HDTV (link to study below). i.e., the majority (54%) of the US population does not.

I have a 40" SDTV that I never watch. I buy 1 or 2 games a year at most. MS2 is the first game I bought since MS1. If BioWare didn't want me to play MS2 on a SDTV, they should have said so on the box. They didn't. There is false advertising under the Lanham Act when a representation that is made is untrue "as a result of the failure to disclose a material fact."

Study : http://www.leichtman.../hdtvstudy.html

Who ever said this was a HD or SD debate? It is been a fact for the last 7 years or so, that the technology used to create SD tv's is old and outdated. It lacks the refinement of the new age tv's. With the upcoming releases of consumer 3d television this year, HD TV will be slowly go outdated aswell.

Consoles that are developed for this new Era, are logically to assume they do not fully support older televisions. Be they created 10 years ago or 5 years ago. It could be well off, that your newly bought SD tv 3 years ago, has been standing still in a box for the last 3 years. making it 6 years old.

So in short, expecting that a new game, developed for a new console that is developed to support the new tv's to be working on older technology (SD tv')  if you are expecting it, then you are asking for your dvd to work on your blu-ray player. Which is ofcourse redicilous to expect.

Also, there wont be a case of false advertisement, as no advertisement has been made claiming it works on sd tv's or whatever tv in that matter. the gamebox clearly says, "supports HDTV".

[Disassemble]

The Xbox is not a new console. It was designed to work with SD televisions. It is a reasonable expectation for people to be able to fully enjoy a game on a system using a television the system was designed for. Now, if you can find a statement from Microsoft saying that the 360 was not designed for use with SD televisions, I will gladly retract that statement. I will also do so if you can find a statement from Bioware saying that they are no longer designing games with consideration for SD televisions.



But keep in mind, HD users have also reported this problem. I am sure that everything is tennis and noodle salad for you, and that is awesome, but other people are having a problem, even HD users, new era or not.

[BloPant]

Syrellaris wrote...

the gamebox clearly says, "supports HDTV".

and as already said, mass effect 1 says the same thing, yet we dont have an issue with that game.

[DeeLite808]

Syrellaris wrote...


Who ever said this was a HD or SD debate? It is been a fact for the last 7 years or so, that the technology used to create SD tv's is old and outdated.

so outdated that they still sell SDTV sets, VHS Players and normal non-blu ray dvd players?

SDTV's are still being made, still being sold so one can argue its outdated or not.

SDT'vs are still being sold because of several reasons, which include:

1) HDTV signals are not supported in EVERY single area of our country. Won't be until well into this decade. that means for most people, buying and HDTV is a waste of their money since watching SDTV signals looks like crap on HDTV's. And most cable companies CHARGE an arm and a leg to provide you with HDTV channels.
2) College kids surely can't hoist up HDTV set in their dorm room if their Dorm do not support having them in the first place (ie providing HDTV signals for their state of the art tv sets).
3) More affordable than many HDTV's on the market.

Majority of the users of the Xbox 360 are 18-35 years of age; A good sizable chunk of that age group is in the 18-24 age bracket (you will find that there are more users in this age bracket than in the rest of the ages brackets).  HDTV users are actually between the ages of 25-50. A sizable audience is outside of the Xbox 360 target audience, who do not own a HDTV set.

It lacks the refinement of the new age tv's. With the upcoming releases of consumer 3d television this year, HD TV will be slowly go outdated aswell.

HDTV will be around well into 3d TV's cycle, and SDTVs are still around even with the advent of HDTV. Just because you think its antiquated, doesn't mean the technology is going to go AWAY quickly. It will take a long while before 3D TV gets even remotely affordable before HDTV is available in the rest of the country at VERY affordable prices.

VHS players are still being sold (mostly comboed with DVD now) but the format still lives on despite being put on the "defunct" list less than 2 years ago (last movie to be produced on VHS was on Dec. 31, 2008). This is a format that was around for nearly 30 years. VHS Blank tapes are still being produced, however.

Consoles that are developed for this new Era, are logically to assume they do not fully support older televisions.

Xbox 360 came out before HDTV's became the "new rage". If you haven't noticed, but Xbox 360s didn't have HDMI support until the Elite came out.  If you wanted HDMI support on your older 360, you had to buy an Elite or an adapter.

360 was developed for same user base as the normal Xbox. Those who had SDTV's and moving slowly to the HDTV format.

Be they created 10 years ago or 5 years ago. It could be well off, that your newly bought SD tv 3 years ago, has been standing still in a box for the last 3 years. making it 6 years old.

Of coures you're just speculating. My TV set gives the DATE and month of manufacturer. so it wasn't sitting in a box for "6" years. It was manufactured and shipped in the same year I bought it.

Be that as it may, this shows that you do not fully understand the life of a product too. If a tv model goes old or becomes outdated, a voluntary recall notices goes out to stores to return the sets to the manufacturer. Most of these sets will be recalled if not sold within 1-2 years of their manufactured date. This is so that stores are not holding on to old stock, and get a refund on their stocks as well.

So in short, expecting that a new game, developed for a new console that is developed to support the new tv's to be working on older technology (SD tv')  if you are expecting it, then you are asking for your dvd to work on your blu-ray player. Which is ofcourse redicilous to expect.

Developers should always develop for the current technology. And CURRENTLY SDTVS are still owned, still produced and still sold; many SDTV's are less than 2 - 3 years old.


28 million users of Xbox 360's out there. Put into perspective, if 51% of those out there still own SDTV's that's
14,280,000 users who will not be able to enjoy this game .

That's a sizeable audience that is currently being ignored. Translate that to numbers, and that's a lot of money that is not being spent to buy titles that can't be read, or enjoyed on SDTV's.

Also, there wont be a case of false advertisement, as no advertisement has been made claiming it works on sd tv's or whatever tv in that matter. the gamebox clearly says, "supports HDTV".

Seeing that all games produced have "supports HDTV" this argument falls flat. ME1 stated the same thing, and it was fine on SDTV's

Modifié par DeeLite808, 04 février 2010 - 03:28 .

[D1G1TALR0N1N]

Well I just started playing the game, loving the experience its just the text is extremely small on my SDTV and its annoying. Yes people will say just go out and buy a HDTV, but not everyone is able to afford it right away - I was just under the impression from a developer like Bioware they would test the game on various TV's than just assume everyone owns a HDTV, yes it may look better but there's still people out there who haven't made the switch.

[vpalma]

I have a 47inch lcd tv and wear glasses and still can't read the text.

[Bissmarck_D]

Things I can't read due to the size and color of the text:



- Cerberus News on the right side of the front screen.

- Almost all explanation of the skills, weapons, upgrades.

- Some prices when you buy or upgrade something. Can't make it out if they're 2 or 3.

- E-mails. I got tired of wasting time trying to read them after a few attempts.

- Codex.

- Circle command thingy during the combat. For skills or weapon change.

- Dialog choices. Sometimes 2 or 3 choices are faded in with white background. No way to make it out. If black background, no problem.



My TV is SD, and for personal financial reason, I'm not planning to buy a new HDTV atm. There was NO warning about not being able to read on SD TV on the package.



This kind of basic failure sure does ruin the entire game experience. I feel like I wasted $60, and I'm about to give up without finishing the game.

[podmark]

Bissmarck_D wrote...

Things I can't read due to the size and color of the text:

- Cerberus News on the right side of the front screen.

Oh yeah, that one is all but impossible for me to read.
I can figure out more or less everything that I need to play, but alot of it is pattern recognition rather than proper reading. I've been able to play and enjoy the game, but I dread that I'll finally hit a spot where I just can't progress properly because I can't read something. 

[DeeLite808]

If I load up the game tonight, I'll take pics of exactly how tiny the text appears on the screen. And this is what SDTV users have to suffer through