568 réponses à ce sujet

[TheOgre]

If they aren't going to bring Warden back, then maybe they shouldn't bring back inquisitor after the DLCs.

 

Honestly I'm not surprised or offended by Weeke's decision on that one. Hawke got the shortend and I hear a lot of disapproval for DA2. Imagine the outcry over how ex author made the Warden something too generic through dialogue options or how past decisions did not impact said character. 

 

But I'm all for never seeing the inquisitor too after DAI is finished and DLC's are gone. I didn't feel anything special for my inquisitor, and I really hope they avoid throwing him/her in DA4 for a "He/she's here!" effect. 

[N7_Heartfire]

Leliana is nearly 40 years old, I think that ship has sailed. They'll just adopt nugs or something, works for female Wardens that way too.

 

Anora is 40+ by Inquisition, yet Gaider mentioned on his Tumblr that she and Alistair will produce an heir one day.

 

And if Leliana can't get pregnant, would the same apply for Cassandra as well? Lol, don't think so. And it was never said they were 40 by Inquisition's timeline, I always figured both were around the 34-38 range.

I doubt it will ever be mentioned whether or not the PC had children with this/that LI, I think the writers are giving us creative freedom in that department. Kids/nugs/mabaris/dragons, offspring headcanons will differ with each person.

[N7_Heartfire]

Getting back on-topic, I'm fine with the Warden being done with, just wish they wouldn't have sent them on such a big quest that's too crucial to the future of the Wardens and then leave it to headcanon. 

[phantomrachie]

Each Dragon Age has it's own unique protagonist, the Warden can only work as a silent protagonist because that is how they were designed. They can't work as a camo.

 

If anyone wanted the Warden back as a camo. thought about it for more than a few minutes, they'd realise what a bad idea it is.

 

• The Warden never had a voice and since all DA NPCs have always been voiced, BioWare would have to pick a voice for you. Now image that, BioWare choosing what voice suits your Warden, it would never be like how it was in your head. Everyone would freak out.
• Unlike Hawke, the Warden doesn't have a 'personality' that BioWare can use to create their dialogue from. Everyone word that was uttered by your Warden could be totally out of character for your Warden because BioWare has no guide to create their responses.
• Unlike Hawke, it was possible for the Warden to be dead after DA:O, so they are risking the hatred of their fanbase for a camo that won't exist in a lot of World States.

The Warden's camo was suck for anyone who wanted it.

 

The Warden can only work as a silent protagonist of a new DA Game, which quite frankly I can't see happening because BioWare has always said that DA is about the story of Thedas not one particular person in Thedas. 

[dsl08002]

So basically what bioware is saying with this revalation is that everything will be settled off screen. How lazy and uninspiring if this quest for cure the calling unfolds just become either futile or he/ she found it then what. Just end up in codex.

The only reason warden would return was as protaganist, NPC wouldnt have worked.

Im sad about this decision. I am a HoF fan and always will be.

[Saphiron123]

Bioware DID screw it up. They screwed it up IN DAO after Ostagar when they've railroaded you into identifying with being a GW. They screw it up double in DA:A.

Following up on a protagonist after a story related to them ends will inevitably break a character. The only way to avoid that is to start the plot with " and while randomly in this region with which you had zero connection and for reasons that will go entirely unexplained, you stumbled onto the main plot".

Wait, your issue with origins is they "railroaded you into being a grey warden"? That's the entire core plot of DAO. Not being one would be equal to Frodo in lord of the rings deciding he wanted to go home and smoke pot instead. Fortunately, origins has you covered. I mean the only reason ANY of the wardens survived was Duncan bailed them out: The 6 origins stories quite literally hinge on where Duncan went and deciding to recruit you.

Dalish elf - No explanation needed, the keeper mentions to other wardens her two elves vanished at the mirror and haven't been seen since, so either corrupted and dead, or best case scenario on the other side of the world while the blight consumes ferelden.

Human noble - Not dragged away by Duncan, dies trying in vain to protect their family.

Dwarven noble - Blamed for his brother's death, dead in the deep roads.

City Elf - Executed for attacking the noble who raped his/her friend.

Human mage - probably executed for helping a blood mage, slaughtered by abominations if not, or suvriving that, the rite of annulment since no warden changed the templars' minds.

Maybe the dwarven casteless survived, can't remember what his story was... other five though, not looking good.

I mean I guess at Ostagar you could have said "screw it" but there goes the ability to kill an archdemon, alistair probably wouldn't have succeeded alone, and without a warden the archdemon is immortal so by the help arrives once weisshaupt sends support troops, denerim is more than likely burned and ferelden is basically one big darkspawn breeding ground. Hell, if the warden hadn't joined, Duncan never would have sent hi to the wilds as part of the joining, morrigan never would have met him/her, she hates alistair, it's pretty unlikely the dark ritual would have been an option. Plus, if the not-warden had fought the darkspawn, technically their blood would have corrupted him/her, and they'd die anyway.

That's the point of a warden, to kill darkspawn and end blights. It's the only reason you met duncan or even got to go to ostagar. So, look at it this way, there are probably other dimensions where the warden didn't become a warden. It's just everyone died, or they were irrelevant to the plot. You never even would have had a reason to meet Alistair.

So, pretty much the plot is completely different, and everyone is probably dead. Kind of glad Duncan railroaded me.

[Saphiron123]

Each Dragon Age has it's own unique protagonist, the Warden can only work as a silent protagonist because that is how they were designed. They can't work as a camo.

 

If anyone wanted the Warden back as a camo. thought about it for more than a few minutes, they'd realise what a bad idea it is.

 

• The Warden never had a voice and since all DA NPCs have always been voiced, BioWare would have to pick a voice for you. Now image that, BioWare choosing what voice suits your Warden, it would never be like how it was in your head. Everyone would freak out.
• Unlike Hawke, the Warden doesn't have a 'personality' that BioWare can use to create their dialogue from. Everyone word that was uttered by your Warden could be totally out of character for your Warden because BioWare has no guide to create their responses.
• Unlike Hawke, it was possible for the Warden to be dead after DA:O, so they are risking the hatred of their fanbase for a camo that won't exist in a lot of World States.

The Warden's camo was suck for anyone who wanted it.

 

The Warden can only work as a silent protagonist of a new DA Game, which quite frankly I can't see happening because BioWare has always said that DA is about the story of Thedas not one particular person in Thedas. 

One bioware employee said that, he's not longer in charge, and the last two games haven't been as good as origins yet. Plus voiced would be fine, it just needs two things, a set of voices to choose from (it's not like the warden had any lines except for grunts and stuff like "I can do that") and a dialogue wheel where it says at least the start of what you'll actually say... or better yet, a list. No more "I click a funny sounding option and my inquisitor basically tells a good friend to screw off".

A much needed feature in bioware games even without the warden. The dialogue wheel should reflect the actual dialogue and give you at least a one line preview.

But no, a cameo would be impossible, he'd have to be a playable option alongside a new pc.

[Coyote X Starrk]

Each Dragon Age has it's own unique protagonist, the Warden can only work as a silent protagonist because that is how they were designed. They can't work as a camo.

 

If anyone wanted the Warden back as a camo. thought about it for more than a few minutes, they'd realise what a bad idea it is.

 

• The Warden never had a voice and since all DA NPCs have always been voiced, BioWare would have to pick a voice for you. Now image that, BioWare choosing what voice suits your Warden, it would never be like how it was in your head. Everyone would freak out.
• Unlike Hawke, the Warden doesn't have a 'personality' that BioWare can use to create their dialogue from. Everyone word that was uttered by your Warden could be totally out of character for your Warden because BioWare has no guide to create their responses.
• Unlike Hawke, it was possible for the Warden to be dead after DA:O, so they are risking the hatred of their fanbase for a camo that won't exist in a lot of World States.

The Warden's camo was suck for anyone who wanted it.

 

The Warden can only work as a silent protagonist of a new DA Game, which quite frankly I can't see happening because BioWare has always said that DA is about the story of Thedas not one particular person in Thedas. 

 

Well said. 

 

 

Was already under the impression that it was a bad idea and this just convinced me further. 

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Good. I don't want them to ruin the Warden character like ME3 ruined Shepard or DAI changed Hawke.

[Saphiron123]

Well said. 

 

 

Was already under the impression that it was a bad idea and this just convinced me further. 

That's why the warden has to be playable, as for voices, they had little bits and one liners but no actual dialogue. A voice would be needed, but a selection to choose from would satisfy most.

A cameo wouldn't work. With us making the decisions though, the warden would do what we want him/her to do. Plus we could update their appearance 10 years later, which would be a lot of fun.

[Saphiron123]

Good. I don't want them to ruin the Warden character like ME3 ruined Shepard or DAI changed Hawke.

The moment I don't have enough faith in bioware to think they can make a good game, is the moment i never play another. If you're already at that point, and you're hoping for something that's just okay, why are you here?

You wouldn't be if you didn't believe they can still do the series and it's characters justice.

[Coyote X Starrk]

That's why the warden has to be playable, as for voices, they had little bits and one liners but no actual dialogue. A voice would be needed, but a selection to choose from would satisfy most.

A cameo wouldn't work. With us making the decisions though, the warden would do what we want him/her to do. Plus we could update their appearance 10 years later, which would be a lot of fun.

 

Sorry but we just have to agree to disagree. 

 

 

Nothing they do for the Warden in terms of personality or voice could possibly do well for everyone that loved DAO and had their own vision of the Warden. 

 

To try would just ruin a good thing in the eyes of alot of loyal fans. 

 

 

I believe the saying is "Don't fix what isn't broken" 

[Shechinah]

(to Saphiron123) I think his comment was more along the line of recurring or returning characters as oppose to all characters and stories.

[Koneko Koji]

So basically what bioware is saying with this revalation is that everything will be settled off screen. How lazy and uninspiring if this quest for cure the calling unfolds just become either futile or he/ she found it then what. Just end up in codex.
 

 

Unfortunately - this is exactly what happens in Inquisition; we get the "drop flowers on a grave" missions, whilst the really decent missions are confined to the War Table and we get reports and codex entries of the results. I mean, most of the (admittedly fetch) quests in Inquisition come from random scraps of paper and no player / NPC interaction, so I wouldn't actually be surprised if this massive Warden twist ends up EXACTLY the way you're describing.

[Torrential]

Each Dragon Age has it's own unique protagonist, the Warden can only work as a silent protagonist because that is how they were designed. They can't work as a camo.

 

If anyone wanted the Warden back as a camo. thought about it for more than a few minutes, they'd realise what a bad idea it is.

 

• The Warden never had a voice and since all DA NPCs have always been voiced, BioWare would have to pick a voice for you. Now image that, BioWare choosing what voice suits your Warden, it would never be like how it was in your head. Everyone would freak out.
• Unlike Hawke, the Warden doesn't have a 'personality' that BioWare can use to create their dialogue from. Everyone word that was uttered by your Warden could be totally out of character for your Warden because BioWare has no guide to create their responses.
• Unlike Hawke, it was possible for the Warden to be dead after DA:O, so they are risking the hatred of their fanbase for a camo that won't exist in a lot of World States.

The Warden's camo was suck for anyone who wanted it.

 

The Warden can only work as a silent protagonist of a new DA Game, which quite frankly I can't see happening because BioWare has always said that DA is about the story of Thedas not one particular person in Thedas. 

 

 

 

 

It can't work as a cameo because you say so? No, you'll need an actual reason, if these are yours below, well here you go, it took me 2 minutes.

 

1) You'd pick the voice type, as you do with your character.

2) The title, and plot surrounding the warden, all the experiences you put him through and shaped are his personality.  - This is not hard to cater to when written well. His/Her personality is already shaped, it doesn't need to be re-shaped or explained further hence why it is a wasted opportunity not to put them in, or draw on it.
 

3) They pulled this off easily in awakening, and indeed every other time a character has been dead, in every other quest or story.

 

4) The warden could work as a silent protagonist quite easily actually, if the cameo was action based and he or she were assisting you in a battle or some such. You could have a quest to discover what happened to him/her. You could have someone silently turn up, pick you out of rubble save your backside and be on his/her way. The entire mission or quest could FORCE him/her to be silent. You could have a diary from the warden, letters from the warden, clues from the warden, magical dream sequences, visions, anything.

 

We weren't asking for much just some fanservice, could be done in the matter of few days with access to the right tools.

 

 

 

 

I believe the saying is "Don't fix what isn't broken" 

 

 

Why on earth does anything need to be altered or fixed? There are a hundred ways to write this that wouldn't change a thing about the character.

[DanteYoda]

To paraphrase Teagan;

 

"The Bannorn writers will not bow to you simply because you demand it..."

 

 

No but they will bow to the money of the customers, when that dries up..

 

I couldn't care less about the warden. I hope she/he dies screaming in agony in some dark hole in the deep road's! The Warden was and will always be one of the most boring characters in thedas.

If you change that to Inquisitor i'd agree with you wholeheartedly.

[Winged Silver]

.Maybe the dwarven casteless survived, can't remember what his story was... other five though, not looking good.

I mean I guess at Ostagar you could have said "screw it" but there goes the ability to kill an archdemon, alistair probably wouldn't have succeeded alone, and without a warden the archdemon is immortal so by the help arrives once weisshaupt sends support troops, denerim is more than likely burned and ferelden is basically one big darkspawn breeding ground.

 

Agree with what you said! just filling in some blanks

 

The Dwarf Casteless is dead, and you can see the dead body in the jail cell when you free Leske (the dwarf with the black corn rows) from Jarvia's base. As for Alistair, in the Darkspawn Chronicles alternative timeline (where the Warden was dead/gone) Alistair does fail at killing the archdemon.

[Realmzmaster]

I read that some posters want the HOF or O-warden back in DA4 or in a dlc as a protagonist. I cannot see the warden coming back in DA4 as the protagonist unless gamers want to play a warden that starts at level one again. Because I left my wardens who I did not US at levels 35 after Awakening and level 25 after Origins.

 

So how would the developers balance the combat and story if a gamer does not use a HOF or O-warden. but picks a new protagonist (which start at level 1)? If that is an option. It would have to be an option for new players entering the series. Are posters saying they would be alright with a level 1 HOF while continuing the HOF story?

 

I could see a dlc were the warden could be the protagonist, but I would rather see the Inquisitor's story play out in the upcoming dlc. Also any warden (O or HOF) would have the same problem with dlc unless the developers nerf the warden's abilities and level or make the dlc levels start at 25 and climb upward.

[Brockololly]

The Inquisitor definitely is yet another boring mary sue power fantasy. The only reason he/she is superior to the Warden is having a voice and therefore feels less detatched from the setting.

 

Ahh yes, the Inquisitor being imminently more superior simply because he has a voice and therefore is more attached to the story of Inquisition. Like that time when your Elven Inquisitor gives a lengthy speech on how they know a whole bunch about Mythal... oh wait, no that didn't happen, the Inquisitor was rendered mute and had to stand by like a dolt while Morrigan explained Elven lore to the Elven Inquisitor. Or I guess we're talking about when the Inquisitor, intimately involved in the personal goings on of Morrigan, Kieran and Flemeth became a vocal participant in the Fade when... oh no, that's right, the Inquisitor stood there like a creepy voyeur as Morrigan dealt with heavy family drama that the Inquisitor had zero connection to. 

 

The Inquisitor being voiced did nothing to make them feel less "detatched" to the setting when the writing and cinematics either rendered them looking and acting like a lobotomized tranquil or shoehorned them into situations where they had zero emotional connection and had no right to be, other than to serve as a bored onlooker.

 

 

 

I read that some posters want the HOF or O-warden back in DA4 or in a dlc as a protagonist. I cannot see the warden coming back in DA4 as the protagonist unless gamers want to play a warden that starts at level one again. Because I left my wardens who I did not US at levels 35 after Awakening and level 25 after Origins.

 

So how would the developers balance the combat and story if a gamer does not use a HOF or O-warden. but picks a new protagonist (which start at level 1)? If that is an option. It would have to be an option for new players entering the series. Are posters saying they would be alright with a level 1 HOF while continuing the HOF story?

 

I could see a dlc were the warden could be the protagonist, but I would rather see the Inquisitor's story play out in the upcoming dlc. Also any warden (O or HOF) would have the same problem with dlc unless the developers nerf the warden's abilities and level or make the dlc levels start at 25 and climb upward.

 

Personally, I think its entirely unrealistic at this point to think the Warden would be back as the main protagonist for any future game and that's not really what I'd want.  DLC, maybe, if they can do it sufficiently.

 

Best would be simply to allow you to play as the Hero of Ferelden or Warden Commander for a short section of game in some future DA game, should the story call for it. Do the same deal as they had with Hawke- let the player recreate their Warden, maybe pick a voice if BioWare is dead set on maintaining their Sacred Cow Dialogue Wheel or else do the Origins style non voiced protagonist, use the class info from the Dragon Age Keep and be on your way. As for skills and so forth, it would depend on what sort of a sequence they were dealing with. Honestly, if I'm playing as the Hero of Ferelden again in a DA game, I really don't care all that much if my loadout is the same as Origins or what level I am- I'm caring about playing as the Warden again due to their story and their interactions with past companions first and foremost.

 

Even if its just for a short story segment, like you had with controlling Joker in Mass Effect. Patrick Weekes talked at the PAX event how they struggled showing off Corypheus in part because they limited the POV to just what the Inquisitor saw. Which I think also limits them from exploring the larger world naturally within the scope of one game. If they opened things up even a bit to allow the player to control multiple PCs as the story calls for it, then you could possibly do the whole Warden curing the Calling quest first hand instead of having it relegated to some codex or having some new PC inexplicably get involved in yet another event they have no personal stake in.

[Heathen Oxman]

I do not want the Warden back for two reasons:

 

1. My canon Warden was a male elf.

 

2. If I have to re-create him with this CC, he's going to have those broken, glued arms that all male elves in DAI have.

 

I prefer to remember Darrain as he was meant to be: Morrigan's bada$$ baby daddy.

[MisterJB]

Well, personally, the fact Hawke came back and can possibly die in an heroic battle made me enjoy DA2 more than I did before.

I can't even explain why. Maybe it's because now I know how Hawke's history is going to end. Maybe it's the simple continuity between games.

[AlanC9]

Wait, your issue with origins is they "railroaded you into being a grey warden"? That's the entire core plot of DAO. Not being one would be equal to Frodo in lord of the rings deciding he wanted to go home and smoke pot instead. Fortunately, origins has you covered. I mean the only reason ANY of the wardens survived was Duncan bailed them out:

Um.... yeah, but so what? My PC might feels she owes Duncan something, maybe, but he's, you know, dead.

[In Exile]

Well, this didn't become a problem until the Keep launched. Before that, it wasn't at all clear that the events of DAA had happened to our Wardens rather than to the OW, whether or not they survived. If your Warden wouldn't go to Amaranthine, then you just don't play DAA with that Warden. Theoretically this is actually resolvable, since Bio obviously has to support the US world-state, and so needs to support the OW.

I suppose it's a YMMV but it was pretty apparent to me that with the release of DAA the only version of the Warden supported would be one that did DAA. It would be too much work to support 2 living protagonists with potentially overlapping stories.

[In Exile]

As i said, If Bioware is trying that, then they are failing horribly at it. Pointing out that your warden is on a quest that could lead to a major plot development is a horrible way to try to step away from him/her. If Bioware truly wanted to distance themselves from the Warden then tying him/her to a huge plot such as Curing the Calling was a mistake. I don't need my warden back but I want them to get a proper ending. No more of this Vanishing Bullsh!t, what I want is closure.

I'm pretty sure that was a plot pulled out of thin air to give people some semi-plausible explanation for why the Warden isnt involved in the plot beyond "we didn't want to write about this PC".

All of the bring back the Warden threads pre-DAI were all about how the Warden wouldn't avoid involvement in the plot so they had to invent some reason. Like with Fionna already being cured of the taint I'm sure they can cure the Warden in some one off event off screen that never need be replicated again.

[In Exile]

Wait, your issue with origins is they "railroaded you into being a grey warden"? That's the entire core plot of DAO. Not being one would be equal to Frodo in lord of the rings deciding he wanted to go home and smoke pot instead. Fortunately, origins has you covered. I mean the only reason ANY of the wardens survived was Duncan bailed them out: The 6 origins stories quite literally hinge on where Duncan went and deciding to recruit you.

Dalish elf - No explanation needed, the keeper mentions to other wardens her two elves vanished at the mirror and haven't been seen since, so either corrupted and dead, or best case scenario on the other side of the world while the blight consumes ferelden.

Human noble - Not dragged away by Duncan, dies trying in vain to protect their family.
Dwarven noble - Blamed for his brother's death, dead in the deep roads.

City Elf - Executed for attacking the noble who raped his/her friend.

Human mage - probably executed for helping a blood mage, slaughtered by abominations if not, or suvriving that, the rite of annulment since no warden changed the templars' minds.

Maybe the dwarven casteless survived, can't remember what his story was... other five though, not looking good.

I mean I guess at Ostagar you could have said "screw it" but there goes the ability to kill an archdemon, alistair probably wouldn't have succeeded alone, and without a warden the archdemon is immortal so by the help arrives once weisshaupt sends support troops, denerim is more than likely burned and ferelden is basically one big darkspawn breeding ground. Hell, if the warden hadn't joined, Duncan never would have sent hi to the wilds as part of the joining, morrigan never would have met him/her, she hates alistair, it's pretty unlikely the dark ritual would have been an option. Plus, if the not-warden had fought the darkspawn, technically their blood would have corrupted him/her, and they'd die anyway.

That's the point of a warden, to kill darkspawn and end blights. It's the only reason you met duncan or even got to go to ostagar. So, look at it this way, there are probably other dimensions where the warden didn't become a warden. It's just everyone died, or they were irrelevant to the plot. You never even would have had a reason to meet Alistair.

So, pretty much the plot is completely different, and everyone is probably dead. Kind of glad Duncan railroaded me.

The problem isn't with you being forced to do the joining, since you can be conscripted. It's that after Ostagar you're forced to IDENTIFY as a Grey Warden. DAI is great about never forcing you to actually say you're Andrastian or to identify as the Herald of Andraste. It goes to great lengths to try and support multiple motives. After Ostagar DAO devolved into saving Ferelden because you're a GW, oftentimes railroading you into dialogue about how much you are they Grey Wardening-est Warden who ever Wardenend.

That's problematic when the origin story - the hook - gives you absolutely no reason to want to be or adopt that identity. It's one thing to want to go with Duncan to escape death - and it's one thing to want to save Ferelden - but none of that requires buying into the identity which you're forced to buy into.