568 réponses à ce sujet

[Han Shot First]

Except that the only reason the HOF would be there is if you want to play an HOF that gave two flying shits about the GWs. That's the same problem DA:A had with railroads and character breaking plots.

This is why returning the Warden doesn't work.

 

A Grey Warden who doesn't give a flying f--k about the Wardens, or the fate of the world in general, makes zero sense. I know some people play their character that way, but it just doesn't make sense. Why would that character stay with the Wardens then? Wouldn't that character go the Anders route and desert? And if not, why do the Wardens keep that character around as head of the Ferelden chapter of Wardens, if the Hero of Ferelden doesn't want to be a Warden and doesn't want to be involved in tasks of great concern to his or her order? And Corypheus is a threat to the entire world, not just the Wardens. Does that character not care for anyone but themselves, or even have any instinct for self-preservation?

 

To me that falls into a similar category as people who wanted to play a Commander Shepard who wanted nothing to do with military service, and didn't care about anything but himself. It just didn't make sense for the character. 

 

It's even worse if you consider that the HOF's love interest (Leliana or Morrigan) is potentially in the line of fire in DA:I, and potentially his child as well, but yet the Warden can't be bothered to get involved. Even if the Hero of Ferelden doesn't care about the Grey Wardens, the fate of Ferelden, or the world at large (that still doesn't make sense to me), surely that selfish pr1ck would at least care about the love interest or his child?

 

In theory I have no problem with the HOF never appearing in game again. But if that is going to happen, I'd also prefer that Bioware not write stories that should include the Warden. Stories about darkspawn magisters destroying the world, should include the Warden.

[KaiserShep]

If Awakening allowed me to import a living Warden world state AND be able to play the Orlesian Warden-Commander, I would have preferred that route. I originally wanted my Warden to say adios to the order after the Blight, but alas...

[In Exile]

A Grey Warden who doesn't give a flying f--k about the Wardens, or the fate of the world in general, makes zero sense. I know some people play their character that way, but it just doesn't make sense. Why would that character stay with the Wardens then? Wouldn't that character go the Anders route and desert? And if not, why do the Wardens keep that character around as head of the Ferelden chapter of Wardens, if the Hero of Ferelden doesn't want to be a Warden and doesn't want to be involved in tasks of great concern to his or her order? And Corypheus is a threat to the entire world, not just the Wardens. Does that character not care for anyone but themselves, or even have any instinct for self-preservation?

To me that falls into a similar category as people who wanted to play a Commander Shepard who wanted nothing to do with military service, and didn't care about anything but himself. It just didn't make sense for the character.

It's even worse if you consider that the HOF's love interest (Leliana or Morrigan) is potentially in the line of fire in DA:I, and potentially his child as well, but yet the Warden can't be bothered to get involved. Even if the Hero of Ferelden doesn't care about the Grey Wardens, the fate of Ferelden, or the world at large (that still doesn't make sense to me), surely that selfish pr1ck would at least care about the love interest or his child?

In theory I have no problem with the HOF never appearing in game again. But if that is going to happen, I'd also prefer that Bioware not write stories that should include the Warden. Stories about darkspawn magisters destroying the world, should include the Warden.

Wanting to save Ferelden is totally different from wanting to be a GW. Shepard is a terrible analogy because Shepard *starts* in the Alliance Military. We're not forcibly conscripted after a origin introduction that has nothing to do with the military and then forced to be loyal to the Alliance. This is the big disconnect.

Wanting to stop the Blight or another existential threat has nothing to do with being a GW. Leliana did not need to be a GW in DAO to want to stop the blight. Same with Wynne. You're confusing loyalty to the organisation with the heroic goal of the characters.

[Han Shot First]

Corypheus represents something akin to a Blight however. He is letting loose demons upon the world, and his plan to force his way by brute force into the Fade and sit on the empty throne, at the very least risks some very nasty consequences. As far as anyone knows magisters (including Corypheus) attempting to that the first time around created the Blights, the first of which nearly destroyed the world. That should be of great concern to the Hero of Ferelden, even if he or she doesn't want to be a Grey Warden. If the Hero of Ferelden is loyal to the order, than that concern should be doubled...considering Corypheus is an O.G. darkpawn and using blighted lyrium as a weapon.

 

Having the HOF written out of DA:I by the personal quest to cure the taint is problematic, considering the utter pointlessness of it if Corypheus wins, and the lack of concern it shows the fate of the world, the fate of his or her nation or clan, the fate of his or her order, and the fates (potentially) of loved ones. Some railroading for story reasons I can accept, but not when it involves character assassination or characters acting out of character.

 

A better means of writing the HOF out of the story would be either to have him dealing with some other threat posed by Corypheus outside the boundaries of the game (addressed through the war table perhaps?) or by having the disappearance explained by being taken prisoner by allies of Corypheus. In either case it would get resolved when Corypheus is defeated, not require the HOF making an actual appearance in game, and wouldn't reduce the character to a selfish craven who allows the LI to fight the battle he or she should be fighting.

[Saphiron123]

A Grey Warden who doesn't give a flying f--k about the Wardens, or the fate of the world in general, makes zero sense. I know some people play their character that way, but it just doesn't make sense. Why would that character stay with the Wardens then? Wouldn't that character go the Anders route and desert? And if not, why do the Wardens keep that character around as head of the Ferelden chapter of Wardens, if the Hero of Ferelden doesn't want to be a Warden and doesn't want to be involved in tasks of great concern to his or her order? And Corypheus is a threat to the entire world, not just the Wardens. Does that character not care for anyone but themselves, or even have any instinct for self-preservation?

 

To me that falls into a similar category as people who wanted to play a Commander Shepard who wanted nothing to do with military service, and didn't care about anything but himself. It just didn't make sense for the character. 

 

It's even worse if you consider that the HOF's love interest (Leliana or Morrigan) is potentially in the line of fire in DA:I, and potentially his child as well, but yet the Warden can't be bothered to get involved. Even if the Hero of Ferelden doesn't care about the Grey Wardens, the fate of Ferelden, or the world at large (that still doesn't make sense to me), surely that selfish pr1ck would at least care about the love interest or his child?

 

In theory I have no problem with the HOF never appearing in game again. But if that is going to happen, I'd also prefer that Bioware not write stories that should include the Warden. Stories about darkspawn magisters destroying the world, should include the Warden.

I'm with you, but they can always search for the calling for selfish reasons for the players who want that... a warden who straight up hates wardens and wants the order to burn though is kind of nonsensical when you consider a) he/she was arl of ameranthine under a warden flag, and created wardens himself/herself.

 

No matter the headcannon, the warden joined the wardens, the warden stuck with the wardens, and even if he's a selfish, evil bastard, the warden joined other wardens to take down the mother.

And he's still tainted and still dying, so for the selfihs among us there would no doubt be cruel warden dialogue and a quest to save his own life by ending the calling. For people who don't want to identify with the warden... well, that ship has sailed. Awakening exists, and it's cannon.

I for one would be deeply choked if they never tell this story, because forget CURING the calling. $10 says the cure to the calling is finding and killing the source of the darkspawn, which unless I misunderstand the lore, would be the other magisters who are the originals.

That would be fun. Isn't there potentially 5 more, including the architect?

[(Disgusted noise.)]

If Awakening allowed me to import a living Warden world state AND be able to play the Orlesian Warden-Commander, I would have preferred that route. I originally wanted my Warden to say adios to the order after the Blight, but alas...

Same. My Warden was definitely someone who was saving the world because it was the right thing to do rather than someone who was doing it for the sake of being a Grey Warden. He never would have agreed to be Warden-Commander and probably would have sneaked out the backdoor during the celebration at Denerim. However, I acknowledge that role playing can only exist within the confines of the plot of the game, so I made peace with it.

 

People who try to claim that every Hero of Ferelden has to be a GW loyalist are delusional though, and I guess have a hard time separating canon from headcanon.

[Iakus]

The thing I always wonder is: what if someone objected enough to kill the Warden s/he was with? It's not like it's impossible. Wardens may be seasoned fighters, but the Wardens also recruit the same. What if someone with Blackwall's prowess saw the whole darkspawn blood thing and said "F*** that, I'll cut you all down before I chug that swill!" and proceeds to kill whoever is holding the chalice? Or better yet, what if the Warden kills the one that refuses, and the other potential recruits also back out? Do they all get killed?
 

It's hard to imagine that the bait-and-switch tactic working that well very often. Funny thing is, I would bet that Daveth would still join willingly if he knew everything.

Hard to say.  I imagine they try to stack the deck so the recruit doesn't do too much damage. Duncan was probably ready for the possibility of one or more recruits turning on him (and being such a senior warden, was almost certainly a lot faster and stronger than he appears)

 

Even makes a bit of Fridge Logic to give the chalice to Daveth first.  Being so gung-ho, he'd certainly be willing to take the risk (they already knew the Joining was potentially fatal) and if he lived, nervous Jory would likely have been more amenable to the attempt.  If he dies, Duncan is that much more on guard for him snapping.

 

I seem  to recall also a note in an old Warden stronghold in Emprise du Lion from a recruit essentially saying "screw this, I'm not drinking darkspawn blood.  First chance I get i'm outta here"

 

but also remember, the Wardens recruit not just capable fighters, but those who face death in thier current life anyeway:  apostates, criminals, casteless, etc. 

[In Exile]

Corypheus represents something akin to a Blight however. He is letting loose demons upon the world, and his plan to force his way by brute force into the Fade and sit on the empty throne, at the very least risks some very nasty consequences. As far as anyone knows magisters (including Corypheus) attempting to that the first time around created the Blights, the first of which nearly destroyed the world. That should be of great concern to the Hero of Ferelden, even if he or she doesn't want to be a Grey Warden. If the Hero of Ferelden is loyal to the order, than that concern should be doubled...considering Corypheus is an O.G. darkpawn and using blighted lyrium as a weapon.

Having the HOF written out of DA:I by the personal quest to cure the taint is problematic, considering the utter pointlessness of it if Corypheus wins, and the lack of concern it shows the fate of the world, the fate of his or her nation or clan, the fate of his or her order, and the fates (potentially) of loved ones. Some railroading for story reasons I can accept, but not when it involves character assassination or characters acting out of character.

A better means of writing the HOF out of the story would be either to have him dealing with some other threat posed by Corypheus outside the boundaries of the game (addressed through the war table perhaps?) or by having the disappearance explained by being taken prisoner by allies of Corypheus. In either case it would get resolved when Corypheus is defeated, not require the HOF making an actual appearance in game, and wouldn't reduce the character to a selfish craven who allows the LI to fight the battle he or she should be fighting.

I don't think either story is more satisfying per set. You get the same complaints. My HOF is the badass of all badasses - fighting a lackey for Corypheus isn't what my HOF would do. Or inversely that the HOF wouldn't be taken prisoner by Corypheus or some lackey.

[In Exile]

I'm with you, but they can always search for the calling for selfish reasons for the players who want that... a warden who straight up hates wardens and wants the order to burn though is kind of nonsensical when you consider a) he/she was arl of ameranthine under a warden flag, and created wardens himself/herself.

No matter the headcannon, the warden joined the wardens, the warden stuck with the wardens, and even if he's a selfish, evil bastard, the warden joined other wardens to take down the mother.

And he's still tainted and still dying, so for the selfihs among us there would no doubt be cruel warden dialogue and a quest to save his own life by ending the calling. For people who don't want to identify with the warden... well, that ship has sailed. Awakening exists, and it's cannon.

I for one would be deeply choked if they never tell this story, because forget CURING the calling. $10 says the cure to the calling is finding and killing the source of the darkspawn, which unless I misunderstand the lore, would be the other magisters who are the originals.

That would be fun. Isn't there potentially 5 more, including the architect?

But this is exactly my point about DAA. Bioware intentionally chose to break characters by forcing you to fight for the order. There were many stories they could have chosen that told the same plot without the group membership. They didn't. This is why I don't want them breaking the HOF even further like they then did with Hawke.

[Saphiron123]

I don't think either story is more satisfying per set. You get the same complaints. My HOF is the badass of all badasses - fighting a lackey for Corypheus isn't what my HOF would do. Or inversely that the HOF wouldn't be taken prisoner by Corypheus or some lackey.

Why does it have to be a lacky? The hero is still only mortal, no matter what the cannon. Corypheus is just one magister, and he was in suspended animation for a long time.

Makes you wonder how powerful the other original darkspawn are by now? Corypheus plus a thousand years.

But this is exactly my point about DAA. Bioware intentionally chose to break characters by forcing you to fight for the order. There were many stories they could have chosen that told the same plot without the group membership. They didn't. This is why I don't want them breaking the HOF even further like they then did with Hawke.

I get what you're saying, but it's their character to write, though to be honest I don't understand the hate against the wardens who are the only people like him, or the idea he/she wouldn't help rebuild to prevent future blights. Still would be a great story, and I think a warden out to save his own life who doesn't care about the order would scratch the itch for someone who doesn't feel loyal to the wardens even if he didn't tell them to ****** off right after origins.

Does the warden have to love the wardens to play awakening? I don't think so. A title, wealth, rebuilding the necessary forces to stop the next blight, and for my city elf I sent away the recruits that he'd find insufferable. Anders and his cat did not assist, trust me.

If he appears in a future game, it'll be about him, not the wardens... And bioware would certainly offer me those dialogue options.

Other wardens will have different motivations.

Still, to never see him again because they MIGHT screw it up, I'm not sure that's a reason to write him out of the story forever.

[AlanC9]

Still, to never see him again because they MIGHT screw it up, I'm not sure that's a reason to write him out of the story forever.

 

It's not a reason for someone who actually wants the Warden back, true. You're probably better off rolling the dice.

 

But if you're more-or-less indifferent to having the Warden back and you don't want the character screwed up, the expected payoff is negative -- the downside is still bad, and there's no real upside. You're better off not rolling those dice.

[massmp]

After what they did with the Warden in DA:I, I´m not surprised that Bioware does not care about him/her. Always here same thing that the Warden has so many variables and that he can die in DA:O. For God´s sake, it´s an RPG! It´s supposed to have many variables. Bioware is just to lame to do it! I don´t want to play as The Warden again, the could  just give him a cameo and let him/her reunite with his/her love one final time.

 

There has to be some conclusion to the cure! They can´t just live it open - Otherwise it would be a joke. Sometimes I don´t understand the writers.

[earymir]

I think they should continue with new PCs for this series, but actually make a legitimate DA:O2.  More strategic combat, tighter story, less exploration-based (because let's be honest, that was not a great part about DAI).  It could be completely parallel and not interfere significantly with the other series.  

 

My biggest issue with the Warden not coming up is that I actually like the Warden far better than the Inquisitor AND I liked the combat far better (although obviously there should be some overhauls as well) in DAO.  They've essentially turned DA into a single player MMO style game, which is fine (sorta), but it's not at all what drew me to the first or even second game. 

[AlanC9]

There has to be some conclusion to the cure! They can´t just live it open - Otherwise it would be a joke. Sometimes I don´t understand the writers.

What if the conclusion is "there isn't one"?

[Iakus]

What if the conclusion is "there isn't one"?

Well to be fair, there are a couple of precedents for a "cure"  We just don't know if they were replicable occurrences or not.

 

I'd still prefer it be up in the air.  Some may want long peaceful retirements for their Wardens, and others want a short, bright flame.

[TMA LIVE]

I'm going to say it once again, Bioware, PLEASE STOP SETTING UP STORYLINES AND SETUPS, AND DO NOTHING WITH THEM!

 

If you really wanted the Warden's story to be over, you'd never give me a codex saying he's investigating the Calling to put an end to it. That's literally a setup for a new story, because I want to know what happens next. If you didn't want to do a setup, you'd say the Hero simply doesn't want to be involved in future conflicts or retired somewhere where he can't be reached. The end.

[In Exile]

Why does it have to be a lacky? The hero is still only mortal, no matter what the cannon. Corypheus is just one magister, and he was in suspended animation for a long time.

Makes you wonder how powerful the other original darkspawn are by now? Corypheus plus a thousand years.

 

Remember, I would have used the HOF as a meatsuit for Corypheus. I think that the HOF is not especially fearsome on the scale of super-powered beings in Thedas, despite managing to kill the AD. I was only saying that the idea that Corypheus would capture the HOF would not be one necessarily welcomed, anymore than the old idea of a DLC centered on the HOF dying in the Calling. Everyone has a different idea for the character. There's no way to write a consistent "end" - all you can do is write further adventures, with the justification being that you happened to be there when the plot happened. 

 

 

 

I get what you're saying, but it's their character to write, though to be honest I don't understand the hate against the wardens who are the only people like him, or the idea he/she wouldn't help rebuild to prevent future blights. Still would be a great story, and I think a warden out to save his own life who doesn't care about the order would scratch the itch for someone who doesn't feel loyal to the wardens even if he didn't tell them to ****** off right after origins.

 

But that's just the thing - there's no reason to think the Grey Warden's obsessive method to end the blight is any good. If the HOF is alive - if you chose the DR and saved the soul of the AD - you might very well believe that there needs to be another way beyond mindless massacre, a huge meatshield army whose only purpose is to die to the darkspawn long enough for a GW to kill the AD, and the absolute uncertainty of what might happen if you kill all the ADs. 

 

We see - in DA:O and the sequels - that the GWs are actually really bad at everything they do. Their plans are often insane and self-destructive, when they aren't just incompetent. 

 

Wanting to save Ferelden from the blight != wanting to work with the GWs. Again, choosing the DR is very much working against them. You're picking the "save the AD" option, either for ostensibly selfish reasons or because you believe there is a better method out there. 

 

To me, any Warden character I have that does not choose the US rejects the GW philosophy, and the order. That's why DA:A makes no sense; but then again Bioware never wanted the HOF to be in DA:A so I can appreciate why the plot is so inconsistent. 

 

Does the warden have to love the wardens to play awakening? I don't think so. A title, wealth, rebuilding the necessary forces to stop the next blight, and for my city elf I sent away the recruits that he'd find insufferable. Anders and his cat did not assist, trust me.

 

None of those are yours - they are for the sake of the Wardens, the benefits and victories accruing to the order, not to you. 

[Saphiron123]

What if the conclusion is "there isn't one"?

There's a cure. Even if that cure is murdering the original darkspawn magisters and the slumbering archdemons until the source of the call is dead.

Kind of want to do that anyway!

The taint might still be lethal, but it's tough to speak to the tainted when you don't have a head. So worst case scenario, still dying, but it's quieter!

[Saphiron123]

What if the conclusion is "there isn't one"?

There's a cure. Even if that cure is murdering the original darkspawn magisters and the slumbering archdemons until the source of the call is dead.

Kind of want to do that anyway!

The taint might still be lethal, but it's tough to speak to the tainted when you don't have a head. So worst case scenario, still dying, but it's quieter!

[Dai Grepher]

I agree that the Wardens suck. It seems the only reason they ever succeed is because there exist at least a few awesome people who just happen to be Wardens and they solve the problems.

 

Which means, the Hero of Ferelden IS one of those few awesome people and thus is one of the super-est super-dupers in Thedas, and thus should be brought back in the next game or expansion.

 

I also agree that not all Heroes like the Wardens. My main one doesn't, and he's the King of Ferelden. My second one doesn't either, because he only cares about himself. So yes, if they bring the Hero back, BioWare will simply have to account for all possible perspectives.

 

DRAGON AGE KEEP CAN ENSURE THIS!!!

 

That's all for now.

[Saphiron123]

Remember, I would have used the HOF as a meatsuit for Corypheus. I think that the HOF is not especially fearsome on the scale of super-powered beings in Thedas, despite managing to kill the AD. I was only saying that the idea that Corypheus would capture the HOF would not be one necessarily welcomed, anymore than the old idea of a DLC centered on the HOF dying in the Calling. Everyone has a different idea for the character. There's no way to write a consistent "end" - all you can do is write further adventures, with the justification being that you happened to be there when the plot happened.




But that's just the thing - there's no reason to think the Grey Warden's obsessive method to end the blight is any good. If the HOF is alive - if you chose the DR and saved the soul of the AD - you might very well believe that there needs to be another way beyond mindless massacre, a huge meatshield army whose only purpose is to die to the darkspawn long enough for a GW to kill the AD, and the absolute uncertainty of what might happen if you kill all the ADs.

We see - in DA:O and the sequels - that the GWs are actually really bad at everything they do. Their plans are often insane and self-destructive, when they aren't just incompetent.

Wanting to save Ferelden from the blight != wanting to work with the GWs. Again, choosing the DR is very much working against them. You're picking the "save the AD" option, either for ostensibly selfish reasons or because you believe there is a better method out there.

To me, any Warden character I have that does not choose the US rejects the GW philosophy, and the order. That's why DA:A makes no sense; but then again Bioware never wanted the HOF to be in DA:A so I can appreciate why the plot is so inconsistent.



None of those are yours - they are for the sake of the Wardens, the benefits and victories accruing to the order, not to you.

Ah, wealth and a title in an age where nobody really has a lot of options, bummer

I disagree with your opinion of what wardens are, they do what they have to in order to win and keep the world safe. I don't feel like a warden who rejects the ultimate sacrifice has turned against what makes a warden a warden at all. A better option came up, or another warden takes the blow.

A warden takes on the taint to fight darkspawn, and all my wardens did that and did it well. The only way a warden could truly turn his back on what he is would be to run during ostagar or leave Ferelden.

The archdemon is just a problem to be solved, not a sacred task you betrays everyone by not dying for when a choice offers a better solution. Not personally taking the blow does not = bailing on grey warden tradition. It's just one way of accomplishing the goal you set out to do. I doubt every other warden in the order would just die when presented with anther chance. Also that would mean any warden on the field during the blight who didn't take the blow would be shamed. That doesn't make logical sense.

However, regardless, it's bioware so if they did do this there'd be plenty of options along he lines of "I'm doing this for me". So it doesn't actually matter, if we ever see the warden again, play him as doing it for him.

I for one have never seen anything to suggest in origins or otherwise that the Hero shamed himself by living. Alistair is a loyal warden, he's not shamed by having a god baby or not taking the blow himself. Nobody from weisshaupt has ever told me I was wrong for that, so that's just your take on an order you know little about. One bioware will write on their own.

And you're not saving the soul of the archdemon, you're saving the soul of the old god it was before it was tainted. And it's optional.

Anyway, you don't like wardens, cool. You want to reverse time and bail on rebuilding in DAA, cool. I'm still going to push to see my warden again and so will many others because we love the character, but head cannon only goes so far, if the other wardens have a problem with how one or more of my heroes dealt with the archdemon, bioware will write that dialogue when they introduce me to them.

I don't understand your belief that somehow a surviving warden bails on a philosophy that we honestly know little about, but I don't have to. Still want to see my characters again, they are my favourite in the series, and therefore I hope to see them again. I certainly want a better future for them then "dead from taint" because the story was hinted at and never told.

His quest exists and it's cannon, for better or worse, I want to see it.

[Han Shot First]

The Keep might be a good way to resolve whether or not the Warden shows up in events that should involve most peoples' surviving versions of the Hero of Ferelden.

 

Dung has hit the proverbial fan at Weissahaupt, causing problems that need to be sorted by the order's most senior or powerful members? Imported surviving Wardens show up in a cameo by default. You prefer that your surviving Hero of Ferelden quit the Wardens all together and not be involved in Weissahupt? Select that option in the Keep. Your Warden does exactly that and goes the Anders route, and instead at Weisshaupt you get whoever the replacement for the ultimate sacrifce HOF is. 

 

Basically it would play out like Adamant where you can have either Stroud, Loghain, or Alistair joining the Inquisitor & Hawke depending on your choices. At Weisshaupt you either get Hawke, Stroud, the HOF, or the HOF's replacement depending on choices.

[Saphiron123]

Also dude, no reason to believe the warden's obsessive need to end the blight is a good thing? They eat the flesh of people, they rape women and turn them into giant beasts that breed the horde.

I guess if you want a world of darkspawn run by ancient twisted magisters, cool, but if the blights don't end all your friends and companions will die horribly and brutally. The blight literally affects the land so nothing grows.

This is not a grey area, in terms of things people should stop, it's up there. Ask the dwarves in origins. There were a lot more of them before they got eaten and turned into monsters.

All your friends in the series, dead. There's your world where nobody stops the blights.

[Saphiron123]

The Keep might be a good way to resolve whether or not the Warden shows up in events that should involve most peoples' surviving versions of the Hero of Ferelden.

Dung has hit the proverbial fan at Weissahaupt, causing problems that need to be sorted by the order's most senior or powerful members? Imported surviving Wardens show up in a cameo by default. You prefer that your surviving Hero of Ferelden quit the Wardens all together and not be involved in Weissahupt? Select that option in the Keep. Your Warden does exactly that and goes the Anders route, and instead at Weisshaupt you get whoever the replacement for the ultimate sacrifce HOF is.

Basically it would play out like Adamant where you can have either Stroud, Loghain, or Alistair joining the Inquisitor & Hawke depending on your choices. At Weisshaupt you either get Hawke, Stroud, the HOF, or the HOF's replacement depending on choices.

I actually like this. And for people who want a new warden or the old one is dead, a new PC option with different introductions to old characters who doesn't get called by the hero's titles.

Everyone is happy. Damn smart. You should. Make this a standalone topic.

[Dai Grepher]

The only way a warden could truly turn his back on what he is would be to run during ostagar or leave Ferelden.

 

Like Alistair?