I'd be okay with this if this bit wasn't entirely untrue:
That kind of got thrown out the window in favour of some vague quest in the middle of nowhere, with most of said potential lovers being more important somewhere else...
That thought crossed my mind as well.
I think voice acting is the biggest, but then again, the same system as the inquisitor would work... i mean, none of our wardens every said anything beyond "Yes!" "gladly" "AAAAAAAARGH!".
It's not like they had actual lines.
So, say I agree that the Warden didn't have much in the way of lines, are you saying that you'd like that to be carried over into a portrayal of them in a future installment? You'd be fine with them being mostly silent?
Free country friend, and that one is about bringing him back, this one is about being bummed out by what Weekes said today... I thought the dude had so much potential too.
I don't criticize your threads, don't criticize mine. I'm free to be bummed out.
After all of the wonderful characters Weekes has written and the excellent story arcs he's given us over two different worlds, your benchmark for his potential is if he'll bring back a character two games past that's dead in half of the world states? 
I agree with folks who say the Warden's story has been told and is done. If they had never mentioned them again beyond "...and they were living their life out training Warden recruits" or noted them gathering dust in a tomb, I would have been satisfied. They indulged us with some extra bits, and that was good too. But in the end, the overall story for Dragon Age and its plot has probably been in place for awhile and the HoF was not going to figure into it. Don't blame Weekes for that.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
It's kind of sad when Diablo brought better closure for it's first protagonist than this.
The hero (Aidan) became a corrupted villain later. And you're still dealing with that storyline in D3.
Bioware usually has better premises than everyone, but a lot of ideas don't really go anywhere. Hawke, mage/templars, many elements of ME2..
So, say I agree that the Warden didn't have much in the way of lines, are you saying that you'd like that to be carried over into a portrayal of them in a future installment? You'd be fine with them being mostly silent?
I think I'd want dialogue, but it's actually good they were silent, because new voice actors wouldn't be the end of the world. Plus 10 years later in the cc, it'd be tons of fun to update their looks.
I'd also want the dialogue wheel to actually reflect what i'm going to say, so there's no weird unexpected surprises.
Mostly silent wouldn't work, I agree.
It's kind of sad when Diablo brought better closure for it's first protagonist than this.
The hero (Aidan) became a corrupted villain later. And you're still dealing with that storyline in D3.
I'd almost (not actually voting for this) would be okay with this if it meant seeing ym warden again... just beign absent like they never existed is just so lame.
"But remember when you all asked for Hawke to come back, how are you people feeling about that now? So i’d say be careful what you wish for. If we brought the hero back, I'm not sure it would be a happy story."
Wouldn't the writers want to bring the Warden back for this reason? Fan tears sustain them. 
Also, wasn't it Mr. Weekes who, pre-release, said that Solas was just some average elf mage interested in helping out? I don't think I can trust him on who may appear/ what may happen in the series. Writers are a shifty lot.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
"But remember when you all asked for Hawke to come back, how are you people feeling about that now? So i’d say be careful what you wish for. If we brought the hero back, I'm not sure it would be a happy story."
Wouldn't the writers want to bring the Warden back for this reason? Fan tears sustain them.
Also, wasn't it Mr. Weekes who, pre-release, said that Solas was just some average elf mage interested in helping out? I don't think I can trust him on who may appear/ what may happen in the series. Writers are a shifty lot.
What does that mean? I loved that Hawke came back. Wish there was more of it though.
I don't need happy. Who the **** are they listening to? I want drama. Good or bad.
It's kind of sad when Diablo brought better closure for it's first protagonist than this.
The hero (Aidan) became a corrupted villain later. And you're still dealing with that storyline in D3.
Bioware usually has better premises than everyone, but a lot of ideas don't really go anywhere. Hawke, mage/templars, many elements of ME2..
Making a former hero into a villain is a double edged sword
Somehow I think if I said that about any character in any series you're in the middle of right now, I bet you'd strongly disagree.
Not really, because unless that series is about one main character, then it's not exactly the same thing?
Harry Potter is the story of Harry and his fight against Voldemort, told over the course of seven books.
Mass Effect was the story of Shepard's fight against the Reapers and that story was told over the course of three games.
Back to the Future is the story of Marty getting thrown into a series of time travel misadventures, over the course of three films.
Dragon Age however is unlike those, because it's not the story of the Warden. It's the story of the Dragon Age itself and the events therein, of which the Warden is one figure who had a significant role in the overall history of that Age, but by no means was the only one?
Besides, as Weekes said, be careful what you wish for?
How'd you feel if they brought back the Warden and paired them with another protagonist, only to kill them in the most lamest way possible... kinda like what happened to Captain Kirk in Star Trek: Generations? They already gave Hawke a 50% chance of surviving Inquisition and of potentially making the player pick between sacrificing them and Alistair, I'm pretty sure they'd be willing to murder the Warden horribly if they felt like it?
Guest_StreetMagic_*
How'd you feel if they brought back the Warden and paired them with another protagonist, only to kill them in the most lamest way possible... kinda like what happened to Captain Kirk in Star Trek: Generations? They already gave Hawke a 50% chance of surviving Inquisition and of potentially making the player pick between sacrificing them and Alistair, I'm pretty sure they'd be willing to murder the Warden horribly if they felt like it?
I'd love it. It's all in the execution though.
Generations is good btw.
Free country friend, and that one is about bringing him back, this one is about being bummed out by what Weekes said today... I thought the dude had so much potential too.
I don't criticize your threads, don't criticize mine. I'm free to be bummed out.
Yep, and I'm free to criticize your threads. But hey, I'm helping you keep the other one bumped, right?
Guest_StreetMagic_*
I think Mass Effect has made them shy of doing anything drastic.
Which is a damn shame. I don't want them feel like they have to tie their hands behind their backs and develop games out of reactionary reasons.
I've said elsewhere that I'd pay extra to see games that only the writers want. No one else. Not marketing, not fans, not even developers. Just the writers.
Saying "The HoF is going to do this hugely important quest involving the Calling and Darkspawn" and whatever, and then showing us precisely none of it... I don't like it. You can't just go and say that we are not going to get to see the last chapter of their tale, and expect us to be happy about that.
There are only two likely outcomes there. Either that quest is going to turn out to not be hugely important after all, or it's going to be hugely important in a way that deeply involves the next DA PC.
I didn't like Hawke coming back, that was an obvious only to appease the fans. A few piddly lines and choose to kill him or let him live. Warden back? Well if the HoF died a hero then do you want him back as a demon or spirit, or did he really only seem dead and he's a ghoul now? If he lived, then did he find the cure, or doe she hear the calling in act one and you have to choose death or darkspawn for him?
No thanks, I can't see a good story out of any of it, that chapter is over just as Hawke's was over unless they had done a DA2 expansion to play what happened in the skipped 10 years.
I don't want to see the warden again. At least not directly. But I would be disappointed if their quest to cure the calling only has a hand-wavey reference and that was it. It's a huge, lore changing mission that's being carried out by one of the series most favored protagonists. As Alex puts it:
Saying "The HoF is going to do this hugely important quest involving the Calling and Darkspawn" and whatever, and then showing us precisely none of it... I don't like it. You can't just go and say that we are not going to get to see the last chapter of their tale, and expect us to be happy about that.
Regardless of what the Devs say, the warden's story is NOT finished. Not when they're out curing the calling. So yeah, I want SOMETHING. Just not a full blown appearance like Hawke.
I'd be okay with this if this bit wasn't entirely untrue:
That kind of got thrown out the window in favour of some vague quest in the middle of nowhere, with most of said potential lovers being more important somewhere else...
Yeah that statement had me scratching my head too. The only Wardens that's really true for anymore are Wardens who romanced Zevran. For everyone else, how are we even supposed to know if they ever even came back to do that riding off into the sunset Weekes speaks of?
This has me really bummed honestly.
Pretty stoked the Weekes has no desire to see the warden again...
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Pretty stoked the Weekes has no desire to see the warden again...
For all the wrong reasons. Because he's afraid how people would react to the story, if they did come back.
If my Warden is going to spend the rest of her days on the sidelines, they damn well better stop bringing Leliana back every game too.
So this 'ride off into the sunset with their lover' statement isn't completely false. :/
I'd rather not see the warden ever again, than have the character dumbed down in future games.
I'd love it. It's all in the execution though.
Generations is good btw.
I'd actually not mind the Warden being killed if it was done in a suitably heroic manner, the problem with Hawke's possible death in Inquisition, Kirk's death in Generations and Shepard's death in most of the endings of ME3 (and the ambiguity of if they survived Destroy) is that all felt ultimately a tad hollow from what they could have been?
Contrast that with Loghain's sacrifice in Inquisition, which I think was better than serving him up to the Archdemon. In Origins, he's something of a death seeker, not expecting to live through the Blight and being surprised if the Warden choses to sacrifice themselves instead of him to the Archdemon? His death seems to come somewhat as a relief, going out in a blaze of glory to restore his name, without doing any of the hard work or putting any effort into actually atoning for his crimes?
In Inquisition however, if alive, you see saw that he'd had ten years to redeem himself and atone for his mistakes. He's committed himself to the cause, despite all the scorn from his fellows and this stubborn determination has actually made him lives up to the Warden's ideals, more than his comrades in Adamant are. While going out against Nightmare was him going out like a Big Damn Hero like he wanted, this time he did it not to save his name and reputation, but to save his friends and allies and let them escape.
The other sacrifices seemed forced and made them far more underwhelming? It'd have been better to not have an option at this point actually, making it so that the Warden-ally always sacrifices themselves (as per their ideals) to get the others and Hawke out, which would have been far more in-character?
If the Warden came back solely to be killed off, it'd be better if it was in a heroic last stand to save their fellows, than something akin to falling off a bridge or getting killed by a giant tar creature, like some simple redshirt? Sure, in the real world, people don't get to chose how they go out and sometimes it is ignoble, but I think that part of the fun of fiction is we can give our characters a good send-off?
Personally, I'm fine with them being happy off in the sunset and to leave them there, but a heroic, bittersweet ending to their story I'd not mind either?
(And Generations is like Insurrection, a two-part television episode that thinks it's a movie, when it's not. Cut out the filler, tighten the plot, give it more action and make Kirk's and the Enterprise-D's death more meaningful and less facepalming and then it'd be a good movie)
Guest_StreetMagic_*
I'd actually not mind the Warden being killed if it was done in a suitably heroic manner, the problem with Hawke's possible death in Inquisition, Kirk's death in Generations and Shepard's death in most of the endings of ME3 (and the ambiguity of if they survived Destroy) is that all felt ultimately a tad hollow?
Contrast that with Loghain's sacrifice in Inquisition, which I think was better than serving him up to the Archdemon. In Origins, he's something of a death seeker, not expecting to live through the Blight and being surprised if the Warden choses to sacrifice themselves instead of him to the Archdemon? His death seems to come somewhat as a relief, going out in a blaze of glory to restore his name, without doing any of the hard work to actually atone for his crimes?
In Inquisition however, if alive, you see saw that he'd had ten years to redeem himself and atone for his mistakes. He's committed himself to the cause, despite al the scorn from his fellows and this stubborn determination has actually made him lives up to the Warden's ideals, more than his comrades in Adamant are. While going out against Nightmare was him going out like a Big Damn Hero like he wanted, this time he did it not to save his name and reputation, but to save his friends and allies and let them escape.
The other sacrifices seemed forced and made them far more underwhelming? It'd have been better to not have an option at this point actually, making it so that the Warden-ally always sacrifices themselves (as per their ideals) to get the others and Hawke out, which would have been far more in-character?
If the Warden came back solely to be killed off, it'd be better if it was in a heroic last stand to save their fellows, than something akin to falling off a bridge or getting killed by a giant tar creature, like some simple redshirt? Sure, in the real world, people don't get to chose how they go out and sometimes it is ignoble, but I think that part of the fun of fiction is we can give our characters a suitably heroic send-off?
Personally, I'm fine with them being happy off in the sunset and to leave them there, but a heroic, bittersweet ending to their story I'd not mind?
I'll agree on that. I love when characters get all of this development.
That's the sad thing to me though about most of their protagonists. They're never this interesting. Bioware writes other characters better.
For all the wrong reasons. Because he's afraid how people would react to the story, if they did come back.
Well look at all the Hawke complaints, Bioware knows how attached their fanbase is to their characters
I wouldn't blame them for not wanting to deal with that all the time
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Well look at all the Hawke complaints, Bioware knows how attached their fanbase is to their characters
I wouldn't blame them for not wanting to deal with that all the time
Personally, I don't want an experience partly shaped by my peers. I'm all for giving power to creators. For better or worse. Sometimes worse, but I'll take it. Art isn't a democracy.
I'll agree on that. I love when characters get all of this development.
That's the sad thing to me though about most of their protagonists. They're never this interesting. Bioware writes other characters better.
Yeah, the protagonists are never nearly as well developed and tend to be fairly basic, presumably because it's easier to write them simply reacting to events around them than actually having any real personality of their own?
Sure, Hawke had three personalities in DA2, but Diplomatic was a pure Pollyanna, while Aggressive was a total jerk, we've seen the same in other games just as Paragon and Renegade. The Sarcastic one had the most potential, because it often seemed to reflect that like Varric, this version of Hawke was using humour as a defense mechanism to avoid dealing with the horrible things in their life? It gave them some depth the other's lacked?
Diplomatic and Sarcastic Hawke got even more interesting when you saw how beaten down they were in DAI, it really showed how much of a toll everything had taken on them over the years, whereas Aggressive Hawke just got more angry... as usual? It reminded me of how Shepard became a lot more interesting when we got to see how the stress of the Reaper War starting to bear down on them in ME3, as things got worse and worse?
That was the problem with the Inquisitor, I think, aside from just after Haven, you never really got a sense that they really were phased by the sheer end-of-the-world level threat they were up against, which conversely made Corypheus seem less important as a result? I'll give it to the Warden, they at least knew and fully recognised how utterly screwed they were in Origins and how hopeless their task was!
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