26 réponses à ce sujet

[whativa]

Helo! ok guys I need help..
1)There is only one character playing at a time? or u get plenty like in BG?
2)Is this game's combat only real time? or u can pause it like in BG? how exactle does the combat funtion?
3)Can someone explain me whats going on with the Expansions and Premium Modules? whats the difference? How can i experience the game with all expansions/premium modules included?

[Grani]

Hello and welcome to the community!

1) You can directly control only a single character, though you can have NPC companions in some modules that you can indirectly control via various commands. Modules are most-often self-contained adventures that can be created by module builders and then played by... well, players. A special type of a module is a "premium module", which is released by BioWare, not fans. More about premium modules below. Also, some modules are not necessarily "adventures", but rather whole game worlds to be explored by players.

2) You can pause the game with spacebar whenever you wish. This feature might be disabled in multiplayer, but doesn't have to - it depends on the preferences of the host. Combat in NWN is pseudo real time, which means it is generally divided into rounds (1 round is about 6 seconds), but it pretty much looks real-time.

3) Expansions are additional official campaigns added to the base game, along with new player classes, spells, feats and skills, as well as some new content that can be used by module builders. Modules created with expansions installed require these expansions to be played. If you bought the game recently, you'll more than likely have the Diamond Edition, which includes both expansions already.

Premium modules, on the other hand, are single modules (mostly single-player, but some of them are multiplayer-compatible) that don't add any new content to the game, apart from the module itself. They're definitely shorter than the official campaigns (that is, adventures included in the base game and the expansions).
Again, if you own the Diamond Edition, you should have an installer for the three out of six premium modules ("Kingmaker", "Witch's Wake", "ShadowGuard"). You can still play the other three by downloading them, since they are available for free. Their names are "Pirates of the Sword Coast", "Infinite Dungeons" and "Wyvern Crown of Cormyr".
Keep in mind that there are many other great modules out there. If you liked Baldur's Gate, I personally recommend "Darkness over Daggerford" (which was supposed to be a premium module).

 

Keep in mind that I didn't go into details, since they could easily confuse a newcomer. Instead, I'd suggest you search the game wiki if you want to learn more about some stuff: http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

 

Finally, I'd personally advise you to download and install (in this order):
 

-1.69 critical rebuild (to be found here):

http://www.neverwint...nfo/players.htm

 

-NWN Client Extender:

http://www.neverwint....info/nwncx.htm

 

-Unofficial patch 1.71:
http://www.neverwint...s.info/p170.htm

[MagicalMaster]

Helo! ok guys I need help..

 

Welcome!

 

1)There is only one character playing at a time? or u get plenty like in BG?

 

You as the player only control your main character.  You can, however, often find NPC companions to join the party and/or group up with other players.

 

2)Is this game's combat only real time? or u can pause it like in BG? how exactle does the combat funtion?

 

You can pause the game in single player (or in multiplayer if it's still enabled).  The combat is basically real time though you'll get things like saying "You can attack twice per round" rather than "You can attack once every three seconds" -- as a round is 6 seconds.

 

3)Can someone explain me whats going on with the Expansions and Premium Modules? whats the difference? How can i experience the game with all expansions/premium modules included?

 

The original NWN had its content and featured an...okay...single player campaign that lasted 30-40 hours.

Shadows of Undrentide added a bunch of new classes/feats/monsters/etc and a good new single player campaign that lasts 10-15 hours.

Hordes of the Underdark introduced epic levels (up to 40 rather than 20), new classes/feats/monsters/etc, and an excellent new single player campaign that lasts 15-20 hours.

 

Modules in NWN are the basis of everything.  Anything you play is a module -- this includes every single chapter of the campaigns (each chapter is a separate module).  Premium modules were stand-alone stories (usually much shorter).

 

However, the main appeal of NWN is its *custom* content.  Dedicated authors have created campaign modules that are superior to any of the official campaigns and premium modules and even many AAA games (that said, as you might expect most custom modules are worse than the official content -- entirely depends on the author).

 

-1.69 critical rebuild (to be found here):

http://www.neverwint...nfo/players.htm

 

-NWN Client Extender:

http://www.neverwint....info/nwncx.htm

 

-Unofficial patch 1.71:
http://www.neverwint...s.info/p170.htm

 

I would strongly agree with the critical rebuild for sure.  Get it.

 

Client Extender is excellent but slightly trickier to install -- don't need to get it right away.

 

I would not suggest you install that "Community" patch -- it's one person's vision, not anything official.  In all fairness, it does fix a lot of minor bugs (except 99% of people aren't even going to notice a difference) but it also changes the balance of several things based on the whim of the author.  The key thing there is that some authors change the balance of stuff for their particular modules (which don't affect other modules)...but this patch tries to change it for all single player modules.  Some people use it, most don't.

[Tchos]

1)There is only one character playing at a time? or u get plenty like in BG?

 

Just an aside, but if you want companions you can control like in BG, you should play NWN2.

[Grani]

I would not suggest you install that "Community" patch -- it's one person's vision, not anything official.  In all fairness, it does fix a lot of minor bugs (except 99% of people aren't even going to notice a difference) but it also changes the balance of several things based on the whim of the author.  The key thing there is that some authors change the balance of stuff for their particular modules (which don't affect other modules)...but this patch tries to change it for all single player modules.  Some people use it, most don't.

 

I'd think of stuff like a visual glitch or something else that doesn't affect gameplay if I were to think of a "minor bug", whereas CPP fixes some, I think, big ones. For example, some feats (like Trident Weapon Focus or Circle Kick) are useless without CPP and not really fixable by a module builder. It's far from "minor bugs", to my mind.

Besides, the patch does not influence balance much, and even if it did, balance is not a priority in single-player modules, whereas if the player wants to play on PWs, the balance is not influenced by CPP.

 

I think it'd be useful for a new player not only because such a player is not aware of what feats/spells/skills might be bugged, potentially breaking his build, but also because the original descriptions for these are often misleading, and sometimes outright false. With 1.71 patch you can be much more certain that in-game descriptions will tell you the truth.

Just my three cents on the matter.

[WhiZard]

I think it'd be useful for a new player not only because such a player is not aware of what feats/spells/skills might be bugged, potentially breaking his build, but also because the original descriptions for these are often misleading, and sometimes outright false. With 1.71 patch you can be much more certain that in-game descriptions will tell you the truth.

Just my three cents on the matter.

 

The thing is you have no certainty of this from one module to the next.  One module might have a spell override script, another might override a 2da file, another might make small adjustments to scripts.  If you have 1.69 then the only changes you would notice are the ones the module builder put in, but if you were using the CPP there is no assurance for what fixes you might lose.

[henesua]

Welcome!

 

You are in pretty good hands in this thread.

 

But I want to add, that while you should probably wait on installing the CPP until you understand the game more, the reasons given for not installing it are inaccurate to put it nicely. Once you learn more about NWN you should check the CPP out, and make up your own mind.

[MagicalMaster]

So, first of all, let me start by saying that I took a quick glance at the current version of Shadow's patch which seems to be 1.71.  I still need to double check this and go through things more thoroughly, but it does appear he actually fixed at least some (possibly all) of the major problems that originally existed.  This included things like wizards not being able to use scrolls the module author expected and changing the implementation of Empower Spell to be incorrect.

 

Given that, the downsides of using his patch appear much smaller.  That said, it still generally seems the benefits are pretty minor as well.

 

Caveat to the above: my understanding that a builder with the CPP could do a lot more, but we're talking strictly about a player using it right now.

 

the reasons given for not installing it are inaccurate to put it nicely.

 

Well, let's see...

 

I'd think of stuff like a visual glitch or something else that doesn't affect gameplay if I were to think of a "minor bug", whereas CPP fixes some, I think, big ones.

 

There's a *ton* of stuff like this:

- Slay live (sic): added missing impact damage visual effect

- Inflict Wounds: visual effect changed to less intrusive one

plus spell school or innate spell level changes that the vast, vast majority of people will never notice, let alone even care about.

 

For example, some feats (like Trident Weapon Focus or Circle Kick) are useless without CPP and not really fixable by a module builder.

 

Here's a question: how many people even care about Trident Weapon Focus working?  It's a martial weapon that's flat out worse than a spear (a simple weapon) in every way?  I think it literally may be the most useless weapon in the entire game.  Pretty much everything else has at least SOME reason to use it...but not the trident.

 

Most modules and many PWs don't even have tridents, either due to them not existing prior to 1.67 or because they're so worthless.

 

Circle Kick just fell into the category of "useless, don't take" along with other feats like Dirty Fighting and Improved Parry (which isn't even counting all the feats that technically work correctly but are still so terrible no one ever takes them).  It's been that way for 13 years or whatever and people have adjusted to the fact that many feats just are...really bad.  Fixing it is nice, I guess, but it only affects monks...and then only monks fighting unarmed (rather than with a kama)...and the bonus winds up being pretty minor eventually anyway.

 

I don't disagree that something like Shadow's patch is needed to fix those.  I just question the actual value of the fixes.

 

I think it'd be useful for a new player not only because such a player is not aware of what feats/spells/skills might be bugged, potentially breaking his build, but also because the original descriptions for these are often misleading, and sometimes outright false. With 1.71 patch you can be much more certain that in-game descriptions will tell you the truth.

Just my three cents on the matter.

 

And like Whizard said, in many modules this doesn't even hold true.

 

If a module uses custom AI?  Write off many of Shadow's fixes there.

 

If a module uses a custom spell system (like Aielund and the EMS)?  Write off Shadow's fixes there.

 

Or how about some basic stuff?  Let's say I think Firestorm should hit all targets, not just enemies, and thus I alter the script as a builder (and I'm not using Shadow's patch).  You play my module and you have Shadow's patch.  Suddenly Firestorm is doing up to 40d6 damage again because I didn't fix that bug in my modification but my modification takes precedence.

 

Speaking of Firestorm, an amusing story.  When I was balancing my module Siege of the Heavens, I assumed that caster focused Clerics and Druids would be using Firestorm as one of their main nukes since it did 40d6 damage.  Using Shadow's 20d6 Firestorm makes those much weaker.  That said, Clerics can still buff up and reasonably melee while Druids can still shapeshift (which was improved) so it isn't the end of the world...but it wasn't my goal.

 

To be clear, Firestorm doing 40d6 was completely and utterly a bug.  But it still means that if I want caster Clerics/Druids to be as viable as I intended, I either need to buff their spells in general or "fix" Shadow's fix.  And a player trying to be a caster Cleric/Druid using the CPP would be not having nearly as much fun as I intended and will probably feel rather weak.

 

Other examples of these problems exist, like how Arqon had to fix EMS when Savant told him how making it so AoEs didn't destroy placeables wound up breaking parts of Savant's Aielund Saga.  Arqon wound up making it so Lightning Bolt *only* would affect those.

 

The general point is that a module not written with Shadow's patch in mind (which includes modules written before his patch even existed) might run into problems in unexpected ways because the author was relying on certain behavior/bugs/etc that Shadow changed/fixed.

 

So, yes, historically I've been very wary of Shadow's patch.  Like I said, it does seem he fixed some/all of the major problems...but other stuff does remain (like the whole previous section).  I'd probably even be willing to say that if the author used Shadow's patch and the player is using Shadow's patch that there's essentially only benefits (potentially some major ones if the builder took advantage of a the stuff in Shadow's patch)...but, well, that simply isn't the case most of the time.

[Lilura]

Pretty much everything else has at least SOME reason to use it...but not the trident.

 

Well, there's always the cool factor or style points - especially for evil characters. The Swordflight companion, Harax the Half-Fiend, wields the Trident of the Hells...

[Proleric]

Turning back to the OP, I'd reassure newcomers that a very enjoyable time is to be had, simply by applying the 1.69 Critical Rebuild, then downloading some of the great modules (fan-written campaigns) from the vault, or visiting some of the persistent worlds.

 

From this thread, you can see that since D&D is a game of almost unlimited complexity, there are passionate opinions on every fine detail, but, really, none of that matters a jot when you're getting started.

 

Once you've played a few modules, you might start looking around for enhancements. There's a sticky in this forum, which, to be fair, is both dauntingly comprehensive, and yet necessarily incomplete and far from consensus. Confusing?

 

Well, the pleasant truth is that there is such a wealth of excellent material that you really have to try a few things out, pick what suits you, and set the rest aside for a while.

 

Unfortunately, compatibility has never been our strong point, so my advice, from my limited perspective as a module builder, is to focus on enhancements that improve the game visually without changing the rules. Those that change scripts, such as Tony K's AI, can cause fatal bugs in modules.

 

Some modules and persistent worlds require specific enhancements in order to play, so, even if you decide not to hunt around for improvements, you'll acquire a nice collection over time.

[Grani]

MagicalMaster, I made effort to include a mention about this stuff (like trident weapon focus) being difficult to fix for a module builder because even if something is worthless or close to worthless, like original tridents, a module builder, such as myself, can easily change the weapon's base parameters to make it on par with other weapons. That's what I did, but without Shadooow's patch, it wouldn't be possible.

 

However, I see how this argument doesn't apply that strongly when we consider the patch's usefulness to a player and not a builder.

 

Still, builders do stuff for players, so if a builder makes use of the patch's fixes, so will the players of that module.

Secondly, there are other reasons for players to want a working trident focus. A module they want to play might offer a powerful trident, so a player might decide to specialize in it, or they might simply want it for role-playing reasons.

[rogueknight333]

Helo! ok guys I need help..
1)There is only one character playing at a time? or u get plenty like in BG?
2)Is this game's combat only real time? or u can pause it like in BG? how exactle does the combat funtion? ...

 

Somewhat redundant answers at this point, but to answer in relation to the Baldur's Gate comparison specifically:

 

1) In NWN you have full control over only a single character, and this is perhaps the single greatest difference between it and BG. Various other companions (called "henchmen") may join you, in which case they will follow you around and attack hostiles, but you do not have full control over their behavior (they fight according to an AI just like hostile creatures, but on the other side), though you can sometimes converse with them to give them some general directives to guide their tactics. You also cannot control what feats, etc. they take when they level up. As a rule they fight rather stupidly, and make stupid choices when leveling up, which depending on how you look at it is either very annoying or adds to the challenge. NWN2 is better in this respect (although IMHO it is inferior to the original NWN in just about every other way), although its system for controlling henchmen is still kludgy and over-complicated compared to BG's.

 

2) The game's combat is real time with pause (at least in single player), essentially the same as in BG.

 

 

Well, there's always the cool factor or style points - especially for evil characters. The Swordflight companion, Harax the Half-Fiend, wields the Trident of the Hells...

 

 

You can easily give an NPC a Trident for the cool factor and then give him illegal bonuses to make up for Tridents being no good (which is what I do). It is of course possible, but more complicated, to do something similar for PCs.

[Tchos]

NWN2 is better in this respect (although IMHO it is inferior to the original NWN in just about every other way), although its system for controlling henchmen is still kludgy and over-complicated compared to BG's.

 

I couldn't agree less.  As for the companions in particular (assuming when you say "henchmen", you're talking about the actual companions, and not the NWN1-style henchmen that rarely appear in NWN2), the system for controlling them is exactly like BG, with the added ability to specify up to 3 actions at once for each companion to execute in sequence (assuming you're using puppet mode and not having them do their own thing with AI).  To control a companion's actions (whether in or out of puppet mode), you click on the companion or the companion's portrait, and then you're in full control, to move, take action, access inventory, prepare or cast spells, level up and choose skills, feats, etc., just like in BG.  Very simple and straightforward.

[rogueknight333]

I couldn't agree less...Very simple and straightforward.

 

I am a bit puzzled since these statements could be refuted by the following, a paragraph describing some of the complications NWN2 has added to the BG system:

 

...As for the companions in particular (assuming when you say "henchmen", you're talking about the actual companions, and not the NWN1-style henchmen that rarely appear in NWN2), the system for controlling them is exactly like BG, with the added ability to specify up to 3 actions at once for each companion to execute in sequence (assuming you're using puppet mode and not having them do their own thing with AI).  To control a companion's actions (whether in or out of puppet mode), you click on the companion or the companion's portrait, and then you're in full control, to move, take action, access inventory, prepare or cast spells, level up and choose skills, feats, etc., just like in BG...

 

NWN2 includes a bunch of options governing character behavior that allows one to set them up to operate on their own AIs,like NWN henchmen, to be fully controlled similarly to BG, and various things in between. Personally I find them to be confusing and offering no real advantages over the BG system (though as I said they are an improvement, so far as they go, over NWN1), though I suppose one could argue it is an advantage to give players these additional options. I would however have thought it self-evident that they make things more complicated.

[Tchos]

It's not contradictory.  If you set it as I describe, it will behave exactly like as in BG.  That is simple and straightforward.  The fact that there are also other ways to set it does not make those BG-style settings complicated.  You can set it and forget it.

[Grani]

If I may, personally I don't see NWN2's companions as an improvement over NWN1.

It's true that many people were disappointed with how you could only control a single character in NWN, but that's because they expected the game to be a third Baldur's Gate. That's not the case.

 

I personally see non-controllable companions superior to a whole controllable gang and that's because of the fact that NWN is supposed to be an RPG game, not a tactical one. The point of RPG games is to BECOME your character, to role-play it. I hold to the belief that the ability to directly control more characters than one misses the point entirely.

[MagicalMaster]

The point of RPG games is to BECOME your character, to role-play it. I hold to the belief that the ability to directly control more characters than one misses the point entirely.

 

This is one of the reasons I preferred the Mass Effect series to the Dragon Age series.  That said, I can understand people being frustrated with the inability to effectively communicate with/command the NPC companions when they're supposed to be as "complex" as they are in something like NWN (2)/Dragon Age (2).

 

From this thread, you can see that since D&D is a game of almost unlimited complexity, there are passionate opinions on every fine detail, but, really, none of that matters a jot when you're getting started..

 

True enough.

 

However, I see how this argument doesn't apply that strongly when we consider the patch's usefulness to a player and not a builder.

 

Exactly, especially for a new player.  For most campaigns the benefits will be extremely minor and the patch risks causing problems in some of those campaigns.  And the patch is irrelevant for online worlds since the world itself determines what happens.

 

You can easily give an NPC a Trident for the cool factor and then give him illegal bonuses to make up for Tridents being no good (which is what I do). It is of course possible, but more complicated, to do something similar for PCs.

 

Indeed.  Ditto if you want a whip wielding NPC, for example, can give them the stats/bonuses/gear to get the result you want.

[Tchos]

Grani: I'm sure that's the common sentiment around here, and I have no interest in changing anyone's personal views on what a "true" RPG is.  I was providing useful information to someone who likes controllable companions.

[Proleric]

I have a lot time for both styles, but while BG/DA tactical control is great for winning hard fights, NWN1's fire-and-forget companions are maybe more realistic, especially in custom modules that allow bigger teams.

[Grani]

Grani: I'm sure that's the common sentiment around here, and I have no interest in changing anyone's personal views on what a "true" RPG is.  I was providing useful information to someone who likes controllable companions.

 

Obviously, what I say is nothing more than my personal taste. Few would consider an RPG gem such as Baldur's Gate to NOT be an RPG because of more controllable characters. Still, to me BG is more of an "RPG simulation". You are a one-man-team, whereas every character should belong to a different player in D&D. I can't help but draw similarities to playing chess with yourself, though by no means am I saying that BG is a bad game.

[Tchos]

I disagree, but I'm not going to argue about it.

[rogueknight333]

It's not contradictory.  If you set it as I describe, it will behave exactly like as in BG.  That is simple and straightforward.  The fact that there are also other ways to set it does not make those BG-style settings complicated.  You can set it and forget it.

 

It is not exactly like BG. You do not have the ability to set formations for the party and lack some commands like BG's Guard Mode where you could set a party member to attack anyone in a predefined area but not move outside that area (or at least if does offer such features I was not able to find them). And to say that everything is simple after one has figured out what all the confusing options actually do and how to set them in a way that complements one's playstyle is rather like describing a riddle or puzzle as easy because it will be once one knows the answer, which is true in a sense but not what most people would mean by describing a riddle as easy.

 

...I personally see non-controllable companions superior to a whole controllable gang and that's because of the fact that NWN is supposed to be an RPG game, not a tactical one. The point of RPG games is to BECOME your character, to role-play it. I hold to the belief that the ability to directly control more characters than one misses the point entirely.

 

There are advantages both ways. In a module/RPG that strongly emphasizes actual role-playing or the use of non-combat skills, I think it generally makes more sense to control only a single character. If the emphasis is on intense tactical combat than it makes a lot more sense to be able to control everyone in the style of a war-gaming simulation. Of course in a typical war game one takes on the role of the commanding general, rather than one of the "grunts," so if one is in fact role-playing the latter it is certainly realistic, if occasionally frustrating, not to be able to control what everyone in the party is doing.

[Tchos]

It is not exactly like BG. You do not have the ability to set formations for the party and lack some commands like BG's Guard Mode where you could set a party member to attack anyone in a predefined area but not move outside that area (or at least if does offer such features I was not able to find them). And to say that everything is simple after one has figured out what all the confusing options actually do and how to set them in a way that complements one's playstyle is rather like describing a riddle or puzzle as easy because it will be once one knows the answer, which is true in a sense but not what most people would mean by describing a riddle as easy.

 

Now you're arguing just to argue.  These are nothing like riddles, whose purpose is to figure them out alone, rather than information freely given in the bloody manual and all over the NWN2 forums, or from anyone online who plays it if you can't be bothered to look for those.  I'm sorry you find it so all-fired confusing and puzzling, or that you're so determined to do so.  Help is there for anyone who needs it.

 

Also, you should know very well that setting formations and guard mode aren't what I was talking about when I said it was exactly like BG -- I was referring to taking control of the companions, accessing inventory, and all of the other things I listed in my previous post.

 

By all means, go on your merry way believing that it's so hard to use and simultaneously overcomplicated and not having enough features.  For anyone else, if you're actually interested in playing and find anything about the companions confusing or difficult, after having read the manual and explored the in-game options, ask in the help subforum and I or any number of other helpful people will be glad to help.

[icywind1980]

Yo guys! Perhaps this is why there aren't so many newbies on the forums anymore. We're all too busy arguing with each other about stupid little points, and we look like a miserable community (I myself am guilty of this too). Let's not derail this poor guys thread anymore.

 

@OP: Welcome to NWN and the forums. There's a lot of great players and great content. Need any help just ask.

[whativa]

No problem! You guys feel free to comment. Im reading