Pff, I rarely even look at the other players outfits anymore. Most of the people with unmaxed stuff do surprisingly good. They can't ALL be alts, can they?
They might. It might be the same couple of dozen people trolling each other over and over again. Also, I'm beginning to suspect there's only one player on PS3, with 16 accounts 
I know the grind can get boring, having gone right through it already, but at the present I'm enjoying the challenge of trying to contribute with very little in the way of good equipment, because it does test what little skills I do have to the absolute max.
It was fun to start with but when you start getting better stuff again you may as well go back. Don't think I've played on mine for over a year.
The start to my first game on my alt was a spectacular fail
I think it's healthy to be reminded that although some of the capability one has in game is acquired skill, a significant fraction is just down to having harder hitting weapons and better equipment to put on.
Fully agree. I remember once I landed in a Gold Pug game of some friends playing together and chatting on the mic. One guy then the rest started saying how easy this game is to him right now and that it's not even a challenge. I said well "Your playing as the KroGuard against Geth & your friends are also using too OP setups for Gold and you expect a challenge? Bet you if you use a weaker kit and weapon you won't be saying that." They said it's not true and for the next game they all switched to Volus and a weaker weapons. And me being very upset they lied because they were getting downed like crazy and I had to carry their butts through some solo waves with a kit I wasn't used to since I picked it for challenge points. I didn't say I told you so at the end, nor did they say anything. I just left instead once in the lobby. "Epeen bragging losers" is what I could of said. Making me solo with a kit I'm not used too because they said they were too pro for Gold. The nerve of them guys. 
It was fun to start with but when you start getting better stuff again you may as well go back. Don't think I've played on mine for over a year.
You say that as if you believe I'm cheerleading for alts. I'm not, but I started the thread because I know others have done it and I wanted to tap into their collective expertise. And yeah, I can see that an alt account that's maxed or near maxed is very like one's original account, barring the trolling possibilities. But since I'm still getting kicked from Gold lobbies for being low level, that might take me a while
The first rare gear item the RNG store gave me was Armored Compartments I, so I guess it really wants me to become a scorehoe 
Say what you want about not having a good manifest, but nothing compares to the joys of starting a Gold PuG with two kick votes on you as an N7 69 and then top-scoring... by a lot! 
You say that as if you believe I'm cheerleading for alts. I'm not, but I started the thread because I know others have done it and I wanted to tap into their collective expertise.
I have to be honest and say that I actually am cheerleading for alts. I've had at least as much fun playing without high level equipment as I do when on my main. The other night I genuinely convinced myself that the Avenger is, in fact, deadly on full auto. On Gold. I admit I had to use a TSol to confirm this, and a Saber or Raider or Hurricane or Eagle or Executioner Pistol etc would have got the job done quicker, but the majority of the playerbase probably doesn't have most of those, at least at high levels, and I think it does no harm to show you don't need them.
You say that as if you believe I'm cheerleading for alts. I'm not, but I started the thread because I know others have done it and I wanted to tap into their collective expertise. And yeah, I can see that an alt account that's maxed or near maxed is very like one's original account, barring the trolling possibilities. But since I'm still getting kicked from Gold lobbies for being low level, that might take me a while
The first rare gear item the RNG store gave me was Armored Compartments I, so I guess it really wants me to become a scorehoe
That isn't what I meant.
When I started playing it was about a month after the game came out and I didn't visit BSN. So I spent probably the first thousand games purely puggin' in mostly Bronze and Silver. So when I did move up to Gold I had a reasonable selection of gear and how to play the game. It was fun to go into Gold with no gear and do thing the "hard way". That first game, I had one Gel, one OPS pack and no missiles other than sitting the first wave out it was fun.
But once you start getting better stuff again the attraction wanes somewhat, I think I put about 80 hours into my alt account before stopping using it.
However if you wanna lowlevel scrub it out, I could be persuaded to dust it off for a round or two though I'm rusty as f**k right now 
I_Bleed_Out
http://social.biowar...out&platform=pc
Say what you want about not having a good manifest, but nothing compares to the joys of starting a Gold PuG with two kick votes on you as an N7 69 and then top-scoring... by a lot!
I have found it good for overall gameplay improvement to start new accounts, and yes, around 60-80 hour range an alt becomes redundant and it is time to move on.
I do know from the tone of some BSNers posts, that they may not realize how much an advanced manifest helps them in the actual gameplay. Pretty much anyone who uses the statement 'lolgold' is someone who has little concept at how challenging this game is with nothing.
I hate it when I top score using my low level account with no consumables or gear, because those matches take 30 minutes to complete .. and that feels like an eternity in gameplay terms.
It's even worse when you probably won't even have a missile for the first few matches you play and can't remove the launcher from your back .. boooo
Even when you have the credits for consumables, you're back to two of each for the whole match again so you really have to be tactical about their use.
Rage Gels are a luxury you can't afford any more. Sometimes trying to decide in the lobby, do these guys look like I need to use my last Incedi/AP rounds.
I have found it good for overall gameplay improvement to start new accounts, and yes, around 60-80 hour range an alt becomes redundant and it is time to move on.
I do know from the tone of some BSNers posts, that they may not realize how much an advanced manifest helps them in the actual gameplay. Pretty much anyone who uses the statement 'lolgold' is someone who has little concept at how challenging this game is with nothing.
I hate it when I top score using my low level account with no consumables or gear, because those matches take 30 minutes to complete .. and that feels like an eternity in gameplay terms.
Speaking as someone who has never once uttered the phrase lolgold, I'm going to stick my neck out here and say I strongly disagree.
A full manifest helps, for sure, but 4 out of the 6 vanilla humans can rock gold with low level weapons and poor/ no equipment, and the other two can be decent if you have some good ammo mods spare. Experience with the kits still plays a big role.
I will admit going back to 2 gels/ rockets is a right royal pain, but it does force you to be a little more choosy with when you use them, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.
I'm unsure what about my post you disagree with? My only point was that players who have acquired significant playing experience, but have not started a new account are many times unaware of the limitations they will face.
I do agree an experienced player can carry a Gold match with 3 of the kits for sure (HA, HE, HS) as these kits have good anti armor powers. But as I said, it takes a long time. And you'd better not ever mess up, as you only have 2 gels. If you're in a weak group and you get certain objectives, it can be really challenging.
I do not agree with the Novaguard being a kit which can easily carry however (I've had the pleasure of killing the last gold atlas on the map after my teammates were all bled out, shooting it with an unmodded and no consumable equipped Hurricane took more that 8 full clips). The Novaguard benefits greatly from consumables (becoming probably the most powerful of the base humans, just ahead of the HI w/UR weapon), but is quite lacking vs the big armor, which is the main problem with the HI and HS. If there is one competent player in your group capable of dealing with the large armored units, then the HV can easily clean up the mooks ofc.
Now, any of the 6 humans can be used to carry a Gold match, but it will take a really long time with these 3.
...but is quite lacking vs the big armor, which is the main problem with the HI and HS. If there is one competent player in your group capable of dealing with the large armored units, then the HV can easily clean up the mooks ofc.
Now, any of the 6 humans can be used to carry a Gold match, but it will take a really long time with these 3.
With your clarification, I disagree with less than I thought. But I maintain that player skill and knowledge would likely trump manifest in most cases. I agree someone who only ever uses a TGI or GI would be in for a rude awakening of their manifest was reset. But someone who's handy with a human adept for example can get back into Gold reasonably quickly without waiting for any good weapons or equipment without seeing much of a dip in their effectiveness, albeit with having to be more careful with their consumables than usual. Although this is purely based on my own experiences with an alt account.I'm unsure what about my post you disagree with? My only point was that players who have acquired significant playing experience, but have not started a new account are many times unaware of the limitations they will face.
I had an extremely (un)subtle alt on xbox last year. All you need is another gold account (a free voucher will do). I had to download the DLC again but I don't recall needing another online pass.
I know, right? Remember that you dropped into a game I was in with t0riko and Jan, and I decoded your secret alias? 
Even when you have the credits for consumables, you're back to two of each for the whole match again so you really have to be tactical about their use.
Rage Gels are a luxury you can't afford any more. Sometimes trying to decide in the lobby, do these guys look like I need to use my last Incedi/AP rounds.
Yeah, I'm realizing that I have to think really hard about using a gel or a missile, not because I don't have them to use but because only 2 are available for the whole game. 
Maybe I'm not remembering things correctly, but I seem to recall that a HI with a Mantis was pretty good against armor, even on gold
It is, if the RNG store gives you AP or Drill ammo (which it mostly won't for me, so far) or if you get any of the piercing mods early on, which I haven't, so far. Without those, bringing an Atlas down takes a good few cloak-cryoblast-shoot cycles with a Mantis X I can tell you.
Edit: @arc. I'd imagine your HI would do pretty well just by making cutting remarks at the enemy, so any gun would be good in that case. But, yeah a mantis is decent on gold, although it might need armour piercing/ damage mods for double/ triple hits against armour to keep up the pace (which I found surprisingly hard to come by)
Our posts crossed, but yes, exactly. Especially the part about ark's cutting remarks
Maybe I'm not remembering things correctly, but I seem to recall that a HI with a Mantis was pretty good against armor, even on gold
Try using a Mantis I with no mods or consumables against a Gold level boss
'I thought i hit it, but just 1 armor bar fluctuated and remained?'
@Rusty - The HA is one of my go to kits, even with a developed manifest. But even it benefits significantly from consumables. On my main account I'll use a Talon X with warp ammo and a Geth Scanner V on them. I fully agree about player skill being the ultimate factor with this kit (same as HE and HS). Yes, you are still mighty effective with nothing (IMO one of the best no consumable kits in the game), but it does slow down your TTK a decent amount.
I know, right? Remember that you dropped into a game I was in with t0riko and Jan, and I decoded your secret alias?
I remember once having Avenger HS with no pierce mods on my PS3 alt account and everyone bleed on White Gold VS Cerb. Took care of all the mooks first, of course, but man, that Atlas. I did so many freaking laps around that indoor basement area kitting that one lone Atlas. Really was wondering what everyone else was thinking as it felt like it was never going to get done.
Then they bleed out again. Sigh.
It is, if the RNG store gives you AP or Drill ammo (which it mostly won't for me, so far) or if you get any of the piercing mods early on, which I haven't, so far. Without those, bringing an Atlas down takes a good few cloak-cryoblast-shoot cycles with a Mantis X I can tell you.
How about piercing mods for double hits too, and that they have to be leveled up even if you have one. As the Mantis is nicer with Phasic III if you have enough of them (and say bye to Disrupter IV for quite sometime).
On my PS3 the last thing I got was my first HVB for the SR. I was like "Finally! Piercing!" Went right to my maxed Mantis, then found out I couldn't aim with PS3 analog sticks. So stopped playing that account right there and then. But now I have a PS4 gamepad which has perfect analog sticks just the the 360. So I'm going to start playing that account again.
That's the one. I was planning a "surprise, it's me" message, when I received a "thanks for the games Rusty". I couldn't have been less obvious if I'd called my alt 20stekcubytsur.
Edit: @arc. I'd imagine your HI would do pretty well just by making cutting remarks at the enemy, so any gun would be good in that case. But, yeah a mantis is decent on gold, although it might need armour piercing/ damage mods for double/ triple hits against armour to keep up the pace (which I found surprisingly hard to come by)
The best way to destroy your enemies is to get them where it hurts; for the Reapers, hurt their feelings
Our posts crossed, but yes, exactly. Especially the part about ark's cutting remarks
...oh wait a minute!! I see what's going on here 
Looks like I need to add two to my list of people to burn in the reactor
It is, if the RNG store gives you AP or Drill ammo (which it mostly won't for me, so far) or if you get any of the piercing mods early on, which I haven't, so far. Without those, bringing an Atlas down takes a good few cloak-cryoblast-shoot cycles with a Mantis X I can tell you.
Try using a Mantis I with no mods or consumables against a Gold level boss
It's going to be far better than any of the other common weapons, besides maybe a Katana, and it's going to be best on the Infiltrator due to tac cloak (~ 1900 damage a shot). Whereas a Soldier wielding an Avenger *needs* some kind of piercing to efficiently (more or less) damage an armored enemy, the Mantis (and Katana...I guess) hits hard enough that it can function well enough without any mods/equipment. Other classes can of course use the Mantis/Katana too, but the Infiltrator - as far as straight weapon damage goes - does it better.
The power classes are quite efficient when first starting out (w/out consumables or equipment); detonating their respective BEs or TBs/FEs is a great way to do damage that's effective on Gold. I'd just like to point out that doing 1900 damage per shot (more with headshots) shouldn't be written off as poor on Gold (at least, when starting out).
To sum up: I didn't mean to be snide, I guess I was just opining that the HI does fine on Gold - especially in a squad.
I have to be honest and say that I actually am cheerleading for alts. I've had at least as much fun playing without high level equipment as I do when on my main. The other night I genuinely convinced myself that the Avenger is, in fact, deadly on full auto. On Gold. I admit I had to use a TSol to confirm this, and a Saber or Raider or Hurricane or Eagle or Executioner Pistol etc would have got the job done quicker, but the majority of the playerbase probably doesn't have most of those, at least at high levels, and I think it does no harm to show you don't need them.
Interesting, I was doing the exact same thing last night. As long as you aim for the head its actually very usable against Cerberus and Geth.
I didn't have much choice when I started my second account. If I had any advice to give, it would be don't use the Raptor.
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