137 réponses à ce sujet

[Larry-3]

I really dislike Cerberus. I hope they are done. I will admit, they did some good in the second Mass Effect -- I read the post-mission briefings -- however, they did horrible things. I read some of the Shadow Broker intel files. Plus they were horrible in Mass Effect 3. They transformed their troops into monsters, kidnapped people, and many other horrible things. Mass Effect 2 has been my favorite Mass Effect so far, but simultaneously I disliked working for Cerberus.

I am not above the idea of a dark horse organization working in shadows. Just as long as they are not terrorist, and have some positive morality to them.

I would work for and with Aria before I work for Cerberus. Actually, I would join Aria before I joined the military or any other group in Mass Effect. Her ragtag group always interested me the most.

[wolfhowwl]

None.

 

The next game is a good opportunity to introduce new things and move on, not stagnate with rehashing the same old stuff from the trilogy.

 

Cerberus' plot line was finished and the group was destroyed.

[AresKeith]

Cerberus will continue being the space Illuminati 

[God]

Earth had the highest reapers presence...and it was the first Council world hit. Sur'Kesh on the other hand is only under siege after Cerberus HQ, and the other homeworlds (Thessia, Irune, etc.) also spend a lot less time occupied than Earth. I think it wouldn't make much sense if humanity suddenly comes out on top. If anything, I think the salarians would be the top dogs in power because they basically stayed out of the war (unless the game is set very far in the future, of course)...and then maybe races like the asari, volus and the elcor who were all attacked late in the war.

 

I think we're going to be the new powerhouse by virtue of having the Citadel in orbit over Earth. It's basically going to have to get a lot of development in the rebuilding process. As well, the vast majority of power-structures in the galaxy are temporarily limited to the area around Earth, until the major relays are back up and running again. Earth is going to be the initial point of rebuilding. From everyone. 

 

So yes, the humans are going to come out favorably after this. 

[God]

 

 

 

Developing it where though?

 

 

The state of the galaxy as indicated by the ending slides seems to have humanity as the unrivaled head of the galactic government, now that we are there do we instate our own status quo ensuring that we will stay in charge of things?

 

 

The place of humanity at the end of ME 3 is limiting in the same way that becoming President is limiting; sure your in charge but is there really anything you can do now that you "run the place"?

 

 

Developing technologies, science, understanding of the universe, economics, finances, political power, ruling, government, you name it. I don't think you understand executional leadership. Just look at what we do today. 

 

By keeping on the bleeding edge of the fields I mentioned, specifically military, science, technology, economy, and politics. We keep moving forward, keep advancing. That's how we stay at the top.

 

Being President is not very limiting at all. Do you understand basic political power structures and what you can accomplish with it? Now that we run the place, we implement our plans and ideas for it. We grow. We build. We develop. And we keep doing such until there's literally nothing left to accomplish. Which is a very, very, very long way off. 

 

By your logic (which is somewhat neo-luddite in some aspects) we wouldn't be developing or growing as a country or as a species. It's the same thing we always do. Once at the top, we stay at the top. We work for it, we fight for it, we bleed for it, we kill for it.

[God]

I really dislike Cerberus. I hope they are done. I will admit, they did some good in the second Mass Effect -- I read the post-mission briefings -- however, they did horrible things. I read some of the Shadow Broker intel files. Plus they were horrible in Mass Effect 3. They transformed their troops into monsters, kidnapped people, and many other horrible things. Mass Effect 2 has been my favorite Mass Effect so far, but simultaneously I disliked working for Cerberus.

I am not above the idea of a dark horse organization working in shadows. Just as long as they are not terrorist, and have some positive morality to them.

I would work for and with Aria before I work for Cerberus. Actually, I would join Aria before I joined the military or any other group in Mass Effect. Her ragtag group always interested me the most.

 

Said horrible things bought us time, and they were effective counter-measures and useful allocations of resources.

 

I consider the monstrosity of wasted resources to be far worse than kidnapping people and turning them into husks. At least you're making them useful in death. 

 

They don't deserve to live if they aren't useful.

[Mordokai]

Totally off topic, but I really love how Massively's avatar is a somewhat subdued version of this.

[God]

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[SwobyJ]

No Cerberus... explicitly.

 

Concepts from them could very well live on, in a major way.

 

I don't expect or want 1/2 the enemies we fight to be Cerberus. Nothing like that. I also don't want to work for them.

[God]

Can we have the option of working for them?

[Vortex13]

Developing technologies, science, understanding of the universe, economics, finances, political power, ruling, government, you name it. I don't think you understand executional leadership. Just look at what we do today. 

 

By keeping on the bleeding edge of the fields I mentioned, specifically military, science, technology, economy, and politics. We keep moving forward, keep advancing. That's how we stay at the top.

 

Being President is not very limiting at all. Do you understand basic political power structures and what you can accomplish with it? Now that we run the place, we implement our plans and ideas for it. We grow. We build. We develop. And we keep doing such until there's literally nothing left to accomplish. Which is a very, very, very long way off. 

 

By your logic (which is somewhat neo-luddite in some aspects) we wouldn't be developing or growing as a country or as a species. It's the same thing we always do. Once at the top, we stay at the top. We work for it, we fight for it, we bleed for it, we kill for it.

 

 

All of that runs into problems with government bureaucracy. How many times has a politician or the President tried to implement change or sweeping policy changes and the Congress or the Senate shoot it down? How many policies have been overturned due to being deemed unconstitutional?

 

 

Development of technologies and sciences is a given I am not disputing that, but if we are assuming that humanity now calls the shots in terms of galactic policy how much of that is going to actually implemented if we have to also consider to Asari, Turian, Salarian, Krogan, etc. goals; especially if humanity is going to be establishing policies that favor them over the other species?

 

The old Council may have been mired in tradition and the status quo, but it at least considered the wants and needs of (at least) three species instead of just one. Either humanity is going to have to tell the other races to deal with it, or we are going to have to spread out our authority/power and consider what the other races of the galaxy want.

 

 

Which brings us back to humanity as the head of the Federation, or humanity as The Empire, as I mentioned in an earlier post.

 

 

 

Aside from that, BioWare hasn't had the best track record when it comes to displaying politicians or the established ruling order in a favorable light. Even if the other species accepted humanity as the leader of the galaxy the narrative of future games wouldn't exactly paint a human dominated galaxy in the best light; then again BioWare does have a strong human bias in their stories as well.

[SwobyJ]

Aside from that, BioWare hasn't had the best track record when it comes to displaying politicians or the established ruling order in a favorable light.

 

I think that was intentional, and will change.

 

For example, Council was still treated favorably, excepttttttttt:

1)They were NOT favorable in the face of the Reaper threat

2)ME3 did change this. Where they were otherwise (when not considering #1) 'fine enough' in ME1-ME2, ME3 brought a dark shade to them/their species.

 

So in itself, they were okay. Its just that the overriding narrative insisted on them being at least inefficient when alone facing the Reapers. That this galaxy/cycle/etc needs humanity and Shepard.

 

But I think this will change. The 'Bioware is very human biased!' insistence from many fans is totally understandable, but it may not be the total truth, IMO.

 

~~

 

EDIT: I realize I focused on Council here, but you can extrapolate the general approach to apply to anything 'diplomacy' related. Diplomacy may be what makes this cycle itself special, but it would be nothing without Shepard and humanity punching a hole through the impossible.

So okay, now that's done. Yay. Now what? IMO, humanity may have only a seat at a much larger table, and we're not getting a story where they clearly hugely dominate in the narrative again. Therefore, we need diplomacy/technology/secrets to win - not a kickassness and humanity-first (necessarily).

[von uber]

Given the devastation of Earth in comparison to other species (e.g the Salarians and even Asari) and the huge losses humanity suffered, from a power projection point of view I do not think they will be the top power.

 

Anyway, having Cerberus reappear in any form will just illustrate a real creative bankruptcy on the part of Bioware. Let it die, let it stay dead.

[God]

Anyway, having Cerberus reappear in any form will just illustrate a real creative bankruptcy on the part of Bioware. Let it die, let it stay dead.

 

I can agree to that aspect. Especially if there is really no actual change in their portrayal and it stays the same.

 

Narrative stagnation is about the only issue here I can really get behind.

[God]

All of that runs into problems with government bureaucracy. How many times has a politician or the President tried to implement change or sweeping policy changes and the Congress or the Senate shoot it down? How many policies have been overturned due to being deemed unconstitutional?

 

 

Development of technologies and sciences is a given I am not disputing that, but if we are assuming that humanity now calls the shots in terms of galactic policy how much of that is going to actually implemented if we have to also consider to Asari, Turian, Salarian, Krogan, etc. goals; especially if humanity is going to be establishing policies that favor them over the other species?

 

The old Council may have been mired in tradition and the status quo, but it at least considered the wants and needs of (at least) three species instead of just one. Either humanity is going to have to tell the other races to deal with it, or we are going to have to spread out our authority/power and consider what the other races of the galaxy want.

 

 

Which brings us back to humanity as the head of the Federation, or humanity as The Empire, as I mentioned in an earlier post.

 

 

 

Aside from that, BioWare hasn't had the best track record when it comes to displaying politicians or the established ruling order in a favorable light. Even if the other species accepted humanity as the leader of the galaxy the narrative of future games wouldn't exactly paint a human dominated galaxy in the best light; then again BioWare does have a strong human bias in their stories as well.

 

I still don't think you're getting what I'm saying. I'm not saying that human hegemony is the power of the galaxy. I'm saying that humanity is the new powerhouse race, and will be in the future. We have the benefit of having the Citadel in orbit, as well as entire fleets of other races over our homeworld to rebuild it. We're going to be the center of the web. That mandates that we will have power.

 

And who says we need a democracy? I'm of the opinion that democracies are terrible. Don't give the common mediocrity of the citizenship the ability to decide anything (unless you want to leave legislation to them ala a referendum). 

 

And honestly, I really don't care as much about the other races as humanity. If we benefit most, good. I'm not out to be racist or speciesist against the other races like Ashley, and I am a collectivist, but I feel that we as humans need to ensure that we're at the top of the heap so that we don't get the short end of the stick.

 

So yeah, let the other races have power, but have us have the ability to circumvent it. We're all equal. We're just more equal than everyone else.

[KaiserShep]

I want a human equivalent of the salarian STG that doesn't f*** things up. That would be the bees knees, I tell ya what. I'm all for cooperation and peace with aliens, but I root for humanity to be able to hold its own when feces hits the cooling device.

[von uber]

plus the betrayal and corrupt hypocracy of the Asari high temple and government was probably the single worst war crime in the history of the last cycle.

Oh that was amusing, thanks - I needed cheering up this morning.

[Livi14]

It would be somewhat interesting to see what they are in the next game. Alliance black-ops group gone rogue? Human supremacist terrorist group? Evil Empire? Something entirely new?

 

But seriously, Cerberus should stay dead, buried, and never taint any other ME game with their presence again.

[Display Name Owner]

With any luck none whatso-bloody-ever.

 

The thing is I even think Cerberus would've been cool in their own game or series of games, a story where we were just dealing with them and humanity's place in the galaxy, and not supposed to be actually worrying about Reapers. But somehow ME2 & to a slightly lesser degree ME3 ended up essentially being Cerberus stories anyway, to say nothing of all the extended universe things which each and every one focus on Cerberus. I've had enough of them now. Besides I'm not sure they'd even be interesting without TIM, the guy had presence. 

[Vortex13]

I still don't think you're getting what I'm saying. I'm not saying that human hegemony is the power of the galaxy. I'm saying that humanity is the new powerhouse race, and will be in the future. We have the benefit of having the Citadel in orbit, as well as entire fleets of other races over our homeworld to rebuild it. We're going to be the center of the web. That mandates that we will have power.

 

And who says we need a democracy? I'm of the opinion that democracies are terrible. Don't give the common mediocrity of the citizenship the ability to decide anything (unless you want to leave legislation to them ala a referendum). 

 

And honestly, I really don't care as much about the other races as humanity. If we benefit most, good. I'm not out to be racist or speciesist against the other races like Ashley, and I am a collectivist, but I feel that we as humans need to ensure that we're at the top of the heap so that we don't get the short end of the stick.

 

So yeah, let the other races have power, but have us have the ability to circumvent it. We're all equal. We're just more equal than everyone else.

 

 

I would have to disagree then, I tend to view all alien life as worth the same as human life; yes even the Elcor as a species = humanity as a species.

[KaiserShep]

I would have to disagree then, I tend to view all alien life as worth the same as human life; yes even the Elcor as a species = humanity as a species.

Still, I think this would be the exception of the rule amongst humanity. The same would be true of members of any other species in general. Heck, we as human beings tend to place greater value on the lives of a select few people over others, based on our relationship to them. Like, I wouldn't claim that the random guy walking across the street has the same value as, say, my sister. Even if I cared to try to believe that all lives are equal, from my perspective, it'll just never be that way. If he got snatched up by aliens or ran over, it'd be tragic, but I'd feel no sense of loss as opposed to if it was a friend or loved one. If by some crazy fluke of the universe, I had to choose between the survival of some alien species and humanity, that other species would be doomed every time, regardless of population.

[wright1978]

So Cerberus have been in all 3 games so far in varying roles, and they could show up in many ways in future games.  But what do you want from them in the future?  Or, like me, do you think it's time to pretty much leave them behind and explore other aspects of the setting?

 

Well i was very much a fan of the direction they took in ME2, adding more nuance to their ME1. I thought reverting to a portrayal as simplistic evil mooks in ME3 was very disappointing especially as the reapers and their indocrinated forces would have been plenty enough enemies imo. Been very unimpressed with what i've seen of their use in comics too. Personally i think they should not return in any sequel.

 

In my personal headcanon my Shep and his Miranda form a new organisation based on the original principles behind the organisation. So i'd be very keen to meet a new organisation that is betrayed consistently in a mature grey manner rather than the simplistic lurching that happened with Cerberus.

[Wulfram]

Still, I think this would be the exception of the rule amongst humanity. The same would be true of members of any other species in general. Heck, we as human beings tend to place greater value on the lives of a select few people over others, based on our relationship to them. Like, I wouldn't claim that the random guy walking across the street has the same value as, say, my sister. Even if I cared to try to believe that all lives are equal, from my perspective, it'll just never be that way. If he got snatched up by aliens or ran over, it'd be tragic, but I'd feel no sense of loss as opposed to if it was a friend or loved one. If by some crazy fluke of the universe, I had to choose between the survival of some alien species and humanity, that other species would be doomed every time, regardless of population.

 

The Asari are rich and culturally important and sexy.  Humans would probably value them far more than some poor humans on Earth