295 réponses à ce sujet

[Jeffry]

What does empathy have to do with it?

 

By being empathetic towards other people and their grievances with the game. The ignorant arguments completely deny, ignore and deflect any issues people have (and are legitimately criticizing) and instead often portay those people as there is something wrong with them and the way they play the game. If you can't see a problem with that, then I don't know what more to say.

 

 

They have the Patch Beta program and that has private forums where the developers are communicating with the people who signed up to test the patches.

 

I believe that counts as communicating with the fanbase and using there feedback

 

Yeah, they started a beta program 3 and half months after release. A good move, certainly, albeit a bit too late.

 

Well, they are only communicating with people who got into the beta and that communication can't ever leave that port of the forum, because of NDA. And about the feedback, are they using their feedback regarding the patches only or they are taking in feedback about the game in general or suggestions for the next game? Talking to only your beta testers is not really the way to go, there are millions of people who couldn't even apply for beta testing. I am not saying BW should consult us on their every move, but every once in a while say something, acknowledge something would go a long way.

 

 

Oh how i miss my Mako...

 

Mako will be in ME4. We don't know how often you will get to use it, but it will be there.

[Elhanan]

Agreed the only issue i had with Vanilla Skyrim was a sound issue i had to set before it would run the game, after that i didn't have too many issues with it..
 
My issues came with ESO though...
 
I yearn for the DA O and Mass Effect 1 days but i know they will never return those games will never be beaten by Bioware sadly..
 
Oh how i miss my Mako...

Believe the Mako is confirmed for ME4, as well as exploration.

[Lumix19]

By being empathetic towards other people and their grievances with the game. The ignorant arguments completely deny, ignore and deflect any issues people have (and are legitimately criticizing) and instead often portay those people as there is something wrong with them and the way they play the game. If you can't see a problem with that, then I don't know what more to say.

"Legitimate criticism" is a pretty hefty phrase to throw around. Just because you didn't enjoy certain parts of the game doesn't necessarily mean I didn't. Now I get what you're saying and I don't have a problem with other people having opinions. What I have a problem with is a) people being really rude about the way they express their opinion (for example hoping the company goes down in flames strikes me as completely unnecessary hate) and treating their opinion as if it somehow objective and the only one worth listening to. Of course I'm not saying this is you but there are people out there and on the BSN who do this.

[PearsAndCherries]

YES. Definetly. I enjoyed DA:I. First Dragon Age game I preordered. 

[AlanC9]

By being empathetic towards other people and their grievances with the game. The ignorant arguments completely deny, ignore and deflect any issues people have (and are legitimately criticizing) and instead often portay those people as there is something wrong with them and the way they play the game. If you can't see a problem with that, then I don't know what more to say.

When you say "ignorant," what are people being ignorant about, exactly? I've never seen anyone argue that someone actually liked something even though he's saying he didn't like it.

And I'm still not clear where empathy comes in. Whether I care about someone's problem doesn't change the substance of the argument.

[Coyote X Starrk]

no never again DA:I is the first Bioware game that disappointed me this much

 

ME3 and DA2 weren't perfect but still A LOT better than the boring DA:I at least they still had the things I liked most

in Bioware games 

I yearn for the DA:O and ME2 days but they are over

 

a good story with awesome characters? nope we have da: skyrim now 

sry Bioware not with me 

 

sadly it seems many people like this new direction 

with all the positive reception and gaming awards (which are underserved, almost every Bioware game deserved GOTY but not this ****) its very clear that they will continue with this bad approach 

 

 

That is the weird thing about opinions. 

 

People see the same thing but in completely different ways. 

 

 

To me DA:I is the most fun I have had with a Dragon Age game. I loved DAO and DA2 was.....almost bearable. 

 

But with Inquisition I loved every minute of my first 3 playthroughs and Im about 1/3 into my 4th.

 

 

In your view it was boring, but in mine it was easily the best game I played in over a year. 

 

 

the trick is finding the meeting point between the two views and hopefully Bioware keeps the current format and simply improves upon it. 

[Coyote X Starrk]

By being empathetic towards other people and their grievances with the game. The ignorant arguments completely deny, ignore and deflect any issues people have (and are legitimately criticizing) and instead often portay those people as there is something wrong with them and the way they play the game. If you can't see a problem with that, then I don't know what more to say.

 

 

 

If you didn't like the game or you have problems with it then I am completely fine with it. You are more than welcome to voice your grievances and various complaints. 

 

 

The only time I take exception to such a stance is when someone that is criticizing the game speaks in such a way that it seems like their viewpoint is EVERYONE'S viewpoint. As if since THEY didn't like the game it means that NO ONE could have liked the game and if they did then there is just something wrong with them or they have low standards etc etc 

 

 

That is the tricky thing about forums. 

 

 

You get the people who like/love the game (Like me) and you get the people who didn't enjoy, hate, or have issues with the game and you put them in the same room as one and other. Most are content to live and let live, but when you get the "My opinion is the only opinion that is needed" people that is when things go downhill quickly. 

 

More people just need to learn when its time to step away and say.... Lets just agree to disagree. 

 

 

(Sorry for double post. Not sure how to add new quotes to a post )

[Tex]

That's good though! It means you really love them.  
I think if Bioware announced tomorrow that preorders for ME4 were open I'd go sign up immediately. There's just nothing like knowing that when that game you really want comes out, you'll already have it!

It's already available to pre-order I know this because I work at EB games.

[Tex]

If you quote my statements, quote them fully. You literelly just cut off the main point of my post and then went to argue as if it wasn't ever there I hope it was a mistake, otherwise nice fallacy...

I will now counter-argue with my whole statement, not just the first half you quoted. You and your friends really wanted to have big lifeless world, dull and boring optional sidequests and a short main story? Well, at least your expectations were not very high and you got exactly the game you wished for. Good for you

I'm so sorry for that I hadn't taken my happy pills yet my mind doesn't work right until I have "sigh" my bad.

P.s I myself pr-ordered Skyrims first day release and only now am I hearing of any game breaking bugs was this a lucky fluke on my end or something? I am genuinely curious any information you could give would be appreciated thank you.

[Fraevar]

Most likely I am done with pre-ordering, except in rare cases where there's a Collector's Edition being made in limited numbers, for a game I'm already feeling comfortable buying early - like The Witcher 3. I don't have any grand promises or vows to make on the matter, save for the fact that most games these days just don't seem to justify full price when it comes to the enjoyment I get out of them, let alone full price paid in advance.

[Keitaro57]

If you didn't like the game or you have problems with it then I am completely fine with it. You are more than welcome to voice your grievances and various complaints. 

 

 

The only time I take exception to such a stance is when someone that is criticizing the game speaks in such a way that it seems like their viewpoint is EVERYONE'S viewpoint. As if since THEY didn't like the game it means that NO ONE could have liked the game and if they did then there is just something wrong with them or they have low standards etc etc 

 

 

That is the tricky thing about forums. 

 

 

You get the people who like/love the game (Like me) and you get the people who didn't enjoy, hate, or have issues with the game and you put them in the same room as one and other. Most are content to live and let live, but when you get the "My opinion is the only opinion that is needed" people that is when things go downhill quickly. 

 

More people just need to learn when its time to step away and say.... Lets just agree to disagree. 

 

 

(Sorry for double post. Not sure how to add new quotes to a post )

Just look at the thread in my sign : We, PS360 players, get a very crappy and very bugged copy of the game. We made a thread to list specific-versions bugs of the oldgen. And the only response of Bioware was "shut up!"

Needless to say, 100 pages of thread and the only response so far consist of "We have our vision of the game and it is not this of the players" doesn't calm the fans that were very civil until then. So, now that I know that the Bioware vision of the oldgen version is an pile of bug and that they will not listen to us because they LOVE this mess, I'm a hater? The fact that the Bioware team hate by the bottom of their guts the oldgen players made the fans a band of whiners?

They released the game fullprice to us.

It is a pile of bug.

They say "shut up"

Every new patch bring new bugs.

My copy is less and less stable.

And I must keep quiet because a real fan take the punchs with a smile?

Now I'm not a Bioware fan anymore. I'm only a customer. A customer whom a game company denies his right to have a fully working product.

[Coyote X Starrk]

Just look at the thread in my sign : We, PS360 players, get a very crappy and very bugged copy of the game. We made a thread to list specific-versions bugs of the oldgen. And the only response of Bioware was "shut up!"

Needless to say, 100 pages of thread and the only response so far consist of "We have our vision of the game and it is not this of the players" doesn't calm the fans that were very civil until then. So, now that I know that the Bioware vision of the oldgen version is an pile of bug and that they will not listen to us because they LOVE this mess, I'm a hater? The fact that the Bioware team hate by the bottom of their guts the oldgen players made the fans a band of whiners?

They released the game fullprice to us.

It is a pile of bug.

They say "shut up"

Every new patch bring new bugs.

My copy is less and less stable.

And I must keep quiet because a real fan take the punchs with a smile?

Now I'm not a Bioware fan anymore. I'm only a customer. A customer whom a game company denies his right to have a fully working product.

 

But do you honestly believe that Bioware is siting behind their desks actively ignoring the Old Gen version? 

 

 

Do you honestly believe that they are going out of their way to NOT fix the game? 

[Keitaro57]

But do you honestly believe that Bioware is siting behind their desks actively ignoring the Old Gen version? 

 

 

Do you honestly believe that they are going out of their way to NOT fix the game? 

We get a response of Conal Pierce. Feel free to read it, ti's only PR BS with no explanation at all and no garantee they will start working on our version. No excuse, no promise, only a "shut up".

[Dieb]

Not because BioWare disappointed me, but because the concept to preorder published AAA games needs to die. Throwing 20 bucks (well-prepared to never see them again) at a promising kickstarter is one thing, but I don't see any point of doing so for well-financed products. The fact that those are partially financed by preorders midway through nowadays is not my problem.

 

The only problem is collector's editions. And the fact that I'm a hypocrite.

 

I'm a guy who enjoyed having game boxes you could also store your winter boots in, which naturally came with cloth maps & art books etc. in the plain regular version a while ago. My brain is thus wired in the way that I want more physical objects than just the game disc. I buy 2-3 games a year at best & usually the kind I play for years, so I have no problem going for the fanciest box availible. However, I absolutely detest "ingame bonuses" because they are basically cheats to me.

 

I found the solution of buying the vanilla game upon release (which in the year 2015 are not subject to droughts, prohibition or raw material shortages) and buying a well-preserved CE with all ingame codes used some time after.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Preordering anything, be it a product or a service, without a guaranteed refund if that said product or service does not measure up to the product or service provider's promise is an extremely bad idea. 

 

It is the kind of move practiced by ignorant consumers, by those with more money than sense, by those who lack patience and are all about instant gratification. 

 

A wise and knowledgeable consumer waits for the product or service to come out, waits for trusted reviews and then makes his or her own judgement on the value of the said product or service and when they should access it ? By this I mean, is this super awesome so its worth it to get it now or is it something that is buggy and incomplete and in need of fixing so it is better to wait or is it just crap and should not be bought ?

 

Tis' such a shame that many gamers are very bad consumers or at least, possess many of the qualities and ignorant consumer would. You would rarely see a person buying a car or a house or a computer be this bad. 

[Meave]

Ah, ok then, that I can understand. Luckily this year is looking good for non-AAA RPGs so far.

 

 

 

You aren't naive for not thinking alike, you are naive for trusting somebody who is well known for not being trustworthy. There is nothing self-righteous about pointing that out, it is just stating the obvious. Could I use a more friendly and less arrogant tone? Yeah, I could, but I am not sure I want to when I feel like I am talking to a wall that is mocking and trolling me.

 

Majority of players liked DA2 and ME3? Yeah, they definitely loved DA2 when it came out, that must be also why it scored so high on any user review agregator out there and they loved ME3's ending so much they were prepared to file a friggin law suit and these very forums turned into a battleground... I actually like those games, as a matter of fact I even said so, but since I took off my rose-tinted glasses I can see their shortcomings and the PR lies surrounding them. Unfortunately what they are doing isn't a crime, they are not really breaking any laws (bar a few individual cases), because there are none that would restrict such practices. It is a broken system and they are taking advantage of it and of us.

 

 

where are you getting all these crap? I can't believe you believe anything you read on someone's blog or twitter or wherever you find this BS. Law suit? On what ground? It's their game and their game and story and they are entitled to change it at any given moment without consulting it with you. If they didn't release any info about it before releasing the game and you would play it as it is now you wouldn't be whining all around the forum about some unimportant details and you would probably be happy about how thing came up. It's your fault you build up false expectations of the game. Beside who do you call liars? EA's PR or bioware's or everyone who work for their company or whole world cos you broke your tooth on the lollipop?

[wolfsite]

Okay Okay I confess........ I Preordered Splatoon.

[Lee T]

As someone who had over 400 hours into that game on the 360 I loved that game beyond words. 
 
 
But hey everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Same for me, never had a problem with Oblivion or Skyrim, on PC or Consoles, and I never used any mods for those games either. They do make some awesome vanilla.

[Dreamer]

Pre-ordering is harmful even if you're convinced the game will be good.

[Elhanan]

Preordering anything, be it a product or a service, without a guaranteed refund if that said product or service does not measure up to the product or service provider's promise is an extremely bad idea. 
 
It is the kind of move practiced by ignorant consumers, by those with more money than sense, by those who lack patience and are all about instant gratification. 
 
A wise and knowledgeable consumer waits for the product or service to come out, waits for trusted reviews and then makes his or her own judgement on the value of the said product or service and when they should access it ? By this I mean, is this super awesome so its worth it to get it now or is it something that is buggy and incomplete and in need of fixing so it is better to wait or is it just crap and should not be bought ?
 
Tis' such a shame that many gamers are very bad consumers or at least, possess many of the qualities and ignorant consumer would. You would rarely see a person buying a car or a house or a computer be this bad.

Or one can follow reviews, gather info, and watch pre-launch materials to glean such intel. Then if desired, one may pre-order or cancel as they wish. Informed consumerism is recommended, but one does not have to do so post-launch.

[Keitaro57]

Or one can follow reviews, gather info, and watch pre-launch materials to glean such intel. Then if desired, one may pre-order or cancel as they wish. Informed consumerism is recommended, but one does not have to do so post-launch.

To pre-order a game before release, you must use previews. In DAI cas, two days before release, they still flowed us with marketing BS that wasn't in the game. More and more companies made reviews embargo pre-launch. We don't have any independant source to tell us what the game really look like.

[Elhanan]

To pre-order a game before release, you must use previews. In DAI cas, two days before release, they still flowed us with marketing BS that wasn't in the game. More and more companies made reviews embargo pre-launch. We don't have any independant source to tell us what the game really look like.

Not quite; had plenty of pre-launch media reviewers come in to test the game. I was interested in Gopher's thoughts, and while brief, it seemed to confirm my thoughts at that point.

And as I watched and read vids and blurbs along the way all this time, I received what I expected. Pre-order a fine purchase for myself. Now I have not done this often, the few games so purchased have been successful for myself.

One perk to waiting: launch day feedback on possible glitches and bugs. In my case, this was also included as I ordered disks; not DL, so was able to take advantage of this, too.

[Namea]

Just look at the thread in my sign : We, PS360 players, get a very crappy and very bugged copy of the game. We made a thread to list specific-versions bugs of the oldgen. And the only response of Bioware was "shut up!"

Needless to say, 100 pages of thread and the only response so far consist of "We have our vision of the game and it is not this of the players" doesn't calm the fans that were very civil until then. So, now that I know that the Bioware vision of the oldgen version is an pile of bug and that they will not listen to us because they LOVE this mess, I'm a hater? The fact that the Bioware team hate by the bottom of their guts the oldgen players made the fans a band of whiners?

They released the game fullprice to us.

It is a pile of bug.

They say "shut up"

Every new patch bring new bugs.

My copy is less and less stable.

And I must keep quiet because a real fan take the punchs with a smile?

Now I'm not a Bioware fan anymore. I'm only a customer. A customer whom a game company denies his right to have a fully working product.

 

You don't speak for all 360 players either. My husband's copy is just fine. He hasn't experienced a single bug. Hell I experienced more bugs with my PC copy and I had a great experience. So it's great that you're actively looking to protect the players with bugs but you don't speak for every 360 player.

[Jeffry]

"Legitimate criticism" is a pretty hefty phrase to throw around. Just because you didn't enjoy certain parts of the game doesn't necessarily mean I didn't. Now I get what you're saying and I don't have a problem with other people having opinions. What I have a problem with is a ) people being really rude about the way they express their opinion (for example hoping the company goes down in flames strikes me as completely unnecessary hate) and b ) treating their opinion as if it somehow objective and the only one worth listening to. Of course I'm not saying this is you but there are people out there and on the BSN who do this.

 

I get what you mean, saying the company should be disbanded is a little bit extreme, but for example demanding the people in charge to step down when you feel the company needs to change its direction is not really an unnecessary hate. And about the objectivity, there are really some cases when we can objectively point out flaws or issues, whether one likes the game or not. Then problems arise when many people start to completely ignore these issues and instead going on and on about how the game was awesome. They can like the game all they want, that is fine by me, but deflecting arguments or arguing by using fallacies is not ok.

 

When you say "ignorant," what are people being ignorant about, exactly? I've never seen anyone argue that someone actually liked something even though he's saying he didn't like it.

And I'm still not clear where empathy comes in. Whether I care about someone's problem doesn't change the substance of the argument.

 

It is pointless to point out to you when people have been ignorant and how, when you are one of them and the rest of them are people you often agree with or are your friends. You won't agree with me on it and I won't waste my time. It would be exactly the same as trying to show you how and when BW has lied. Ofc you are not clear on where empathy comes in, since the majority of your posts I have read are completely indifferent. Not saying you are an indifferent person, because I don't know you, I am only talking about the way you post / argue.

 

 

If you didn't like the game or you have problems with it then I am completely fine with it. You are more than welcome to voice your grievances and various complaints. 

 

The only time I take exception to such a stance is when someone that is criticizing the game speaks in such a way that it seems like their viewpoint is EVERYONE'S viewpoint. As if since THEY didn't like the game it means that NO ONE could have liked the game and if they did then there is just something wrong with them or they have low standards etc etc 

 

That is the tricky thing about forums. 

 

You get the people who like/love the game (Like me) and you get the people who didn't enjoy, hate, or have issues with the game and you put them in the same room as one and other. Most are content to live and let live, but when you get the "My opinion is the only opinion that is needed" people that is when things go downhill quickly. 

 

More people just need to learn when its time to step away and say.... Lets just agree to disagree. 

 

(Sorry for double post. Not sure how to add new quotes to a post )

 

The problem sometime is, that some issues should be everyone's issues. Just because I play on PC should I ignore the fact that BW lied to old gen players and then basically told them to shove it when many of them can't even play the game they bought? No and neither should anybody else, because them fixing their mess and taking responsibility is in everyone's interest. A little bit of empathy, not indifference.

 

(If you already submitted your post, then the way I do it is: click on quote, which starts a new post, I'll then select it all, cut it (ctrl+x), click on edit the post I want to add another quote to and paste the cut text there. There are probably better ways to do it, but I don't know of them. If you just want to add more quotes to a post you are currently writing, simply clicking on quote adds them there.)

 

I'm so sorry for that I hadn't taken my happy pills yet my mind doesn't work right until I have "sigh" my bad.

 

P.s I myself pr-ordered Skyrims first day release and only now am I hearing of any game breaking bugs was this a lucky fluke on my end or something? I am genuinely curious any information you could give would be appreciated thank you.

 

It's ok, no harm done

 

Probably luck I would say. I can't really offer any isight or useful information on the matter of bugs, because even if you have the exactly same product installed on the exactly same computers hw-spec wise, you can get very different results. PC magic I guess For example I was kinda unlucky in DAO:A, 2 main quests (among other things) were unfinishable by normal means, one had to be resolved by dev console and I had to glitch the other one. Yet there are people that haven't encountered them at all.

 

 

To pre-order a game before release, you must use previews. In DAI cas, two days before release, they still flowed us with marketing BS that wasn't in the game. More and more companies made reviews embargo pre-launch. We don't have any independant source to tell us what the game really look like.

 

Don't even bother, it is completely pointless to argue with Elhanan. According to him the game came out just as promised and advertised, without any major issues and everything is just so awesome, 10/10, GOTY Even if you serve him facts on a silver platter, he will ignore them completely, deflect them and talk about something else, that was according to him amazing.

[phaonica]

I've managed to avoid preordering anything for a couple of years now. I have been refusing to participate as a contributor statistic to pre-release hype and I stuck to that rule for DAI. Even though DAI was a guaranteed buy for me, I specifically waited a few days after the release date to buy it so that I was sure it was no longer in preorder status.