Now that Patch 5 has nerfed the Flask of Fire/Thousand Cuts exploit, is it still worth running a Tempest rogue as DW? Buffing a bow and using Flask of Lightning for machine gunning DPS and Flask of Fire with Leaping Shot seems more playable.
Post Patch 5, is DW only good with the Assassin specialization?
Rogue DW is OP, with or without the Tempest flasks. If you craft your Masterwork dual blade daggers and armor correctly (+hidden blades, +guard), you will never need to use any specialization skills. Unless you want to, for lulz.
I'd say play whichever one you prefer. Apparently I prefer daggers. 
P.S. I didn't even realize they'd nerfed Tempest. 
Now that Patch 5 has nerfed the Flask of Fire/Thousand Cuts exploit, is it still worth running a Tempest rogue as DW? Buffing a bow and using Flask of Lightning for machine gunning DPS and Flask of Fire with Leaping Shot seems more playable.
Post Patch 5, is DW only good with the Assassin specialization?
DW is still the strongest for Tempest because of a few reasons
1. Extra Offensive Masterwork slot in the second dagger which boosts the DW rogue's TC damage higher than a Archer rogue.
2. Takes less crit chance to reach 100% crit, (through sneak attack) so they can focus entirely on crit damage and dexterity when an archer rogue is still building crit chance. .
3. All of the really good Archer abilities have long animations (leaping shot, full draw ) when compared to Shadow Strike.
4. Flask of Frost is actually usable on DW rogues.
The only really crap thing about DW rogue Tempests when compared to Archers is that Pincushion is way out of the way in their build path to get.
Thousand Cuts always had better damage with a bow, since it keys off of base damage, not weapon DPS.
I don't know if this was true pre-Patch 5, but I noticed that post Patch 5, Thousand Cuts seems to treat the lack of an offhand weapon as an IMMUNE attack. That's the only explanation I can come up with for why I see so many IMMUNE messages attacking an enemy that has no reason to be immune to a bow attack, including the rune buff. No such messages appear for regular attacks with the same weapon against the same enemy. I'll try and post a screenshot.
If I'm right, wouldn't that mean bow only gets half the attack value of DW, for same base damage?
Rogue DW is OP, with or without the Tempest flasks. If you craft your Masterwork dual blade daggers and armor correctly (+hidden blades, +guard), you will never need to use any specialization skills. Unless you want to, for lulz.
At high enough level, that's true. Once I had Tier 3 everything with procs, I never touched either of my focus abilities as a Tempest DW Inquisitor. But mid level with about 12-14 points to respec and not much fade-touched materials to work with, specialization skills kept me alive.
Check this out :- http://forum.bioware...doing-it-wrong/
For Tempest, Dual Wield or Archery does not really matter.
I don't know if this was true pre-Patch 5, but I noticed that post Patch 5, Thousand Cuts seems to treat the lack of an offhand weapon as an IMMUNE attack. That's the only explanation I can come up with for why I see so many IMMUNE messages attacking an enemy that has no reason to be immune to a bow attack, including the rune buff. No such messages appear for regular attacks with the same weapon against the same enemy. I'll try and post a screenshot.
If I'm right, wouldn't that mean bow only gets half the attack value of DW, for same base damage?
It honestly doesn't really matter, as TC will kill anything you use it on, whether you are a bow wielder or a dagger wielder. There is no functional difference between the two using it. I've never seen the phenomenon you're talking about though.
Are you poisoning your weapon before hand? I'm pretty sure that will produce the immune description.
Seriously though, thousand cuts is so broken in general that fixing only one glitch won't fix it's use in general. For example thousand cut's takes no focus if the effect is blocked in part, or if it completely kills every enemy before the final animation goes off. (You will reappear at the starting location if TC is blocked) and can use TC again immediately.
Because what triggers the Focus cost seems to be the final hit, if it doesn't occur, you can use TC every fight and face roll the game.
I just tested both of these on Red Templars.
2. Takes less crit chance to reach 100% crit, (through sneak attack) so they can focus entirely on crit damage and dexterity when an archer rogue is still building crit chance.
I was gonna run with Assassin on my archer, but my Inquisitor also happens to be a female elf so I'm thinking about running Tempest because I'll never use Sera since my Inquisitor is almost the same thing.
It honestly doesn't really matter, as TC will kill anything you use it on, whether you are a bow wielder or a dagger wielder. There is no functional difference between the two using it. I've never seen the phenomenon you're talking about though.
Are you poisoning your weapon before hand? I'm pretty sure that will produce the immune description.
Seriously though, thousand cuts is so broken in general that fixing only one glitch won't fix it's use in general. For example thousand cut's takes no focus if the effect is blocked in part, or if it completely kills every enemy before the final animation goes off. (You will reappear at the starting location if TC is blocked) and can use TC again immediately.
Because what triggers the Focus cost seems to be the final hit, if it doesn't occur, you can use TC every fight and face roll the game.
I just tested both of these on Red Templars.
I haven't managed to get the cancellation of focus reset yet. I guess I'm using TC too soon. I'm only using it on dragons this PT.
I tried an experiment with an unmodified vanilla bow vs. unmodified vanilla daggers, everything else the same. I got the same stream of IMMUNE vs. Fereldan Frostback either way, so I was wrong about the offhand weapon stuff. I have no idea what is causing it, though one clue is that the first message is SUNDERED (for either bow or daggers), then every one after is IMMUNE. There's nothing I can think of on Sera's passives, armor, accessories or weapons that would cause sundering, so again, no idea what is happening. I'll try the same experiment on a giant to see if the messages are specific to high dragons.
Isn't it a bit easier to flank from range? You have to be point blank to get the bonus flanking damage, but I'm pretty sure it still counts as flanking if you're further away. Unless Sneak Attack specifically requires melee range?
It's a 3 point investment into the dagger tree, but that's the same as Pincushion for a DW rogue.
No it's not. The farther away you are from an enemy, the naturally more distance you have to cover to flank them. Melee rogues are immensely better at flanking because they operate closer to enemy and thus can react easily when an enemy changes how they are facing. Archer rogues cannot because they're farther away.
Sneak attack is less reliable for an Archer .
No it's not. The farther away you are from an enemy, the naturally more distance you have to cover to flank them. Melee rogues are immensely better at flanking because they operate closer to enemy and thus can react easily when an enemy changes how they are facing. Archer rogues cannot because they're farther away.
Sneak attack is less reliable for an Archer .
Fair point, although it seems like enemies are more likely to turn to face melee party members vs. ranged ones. So it's harder to deal with turning at range, but it happens less often.
I haven't managed to get the cancellation of focus reset yet. I guess I'm using TC too soon. I'm only using it on dragons this PT.
I tried an experiment with an unmodified vanilla bow vs. unmodified vanilla daggers, everything else the same. I got the same stream of IMMUNE vs. Fereldan Frostback either way, so I was wrong about the offhand weapon stuff. I have no idea what is causing it, though one clue is that the first message is SUNDERED (for either bow or daggers), then every one after is IMMUNE. There's nothing I can think of on Sera's passives, armor, accessories or weapons that would cause sundering, so again, no idea what is happening. I'll try the same experiment on a giant to see if the messages are specific to high dragons.
I posted a video. Since it is kind of off topic from this thread, I made a new thread:
http://forum.bioware...n-immune-guard/
Fair point, although it seems like enemies are more likely to turn to face melee party members vs. ranged ones. So it's harder to deal with turning at range, but it happens less often.
With easy to miss they rarely turn at all before they die.
It's a 3 point investment into the dagger tree, but that's the same as Pincushion for a DW rogue.
Are you sure that pincushion works with daggers? And what about first blood?
With easy to miss they rarely turn at all before they die.
Are you sure that pincushion works with daggers? And what about first blood?
Whats an ideal dagger damage to aim for?
I've been playing bow tempest, might change it to daggers for a while.
You mean in terms of crafted base damage? DPS? Or best possible min/max optimized -- which should be over 10k routinely?
For crafted base damage of a single dagger, something in the neighborhood of 115-125 damage (130-140 AoE for dual blade) is a practical target to aim for. You'll need T3 schematics and at least 10 T3 or better metals. You can do better than those levels with good masterwork slot choices.
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