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What should fate have in store for the Council races in Me:NG?


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#101
Wulfram

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I think the "worthy" stuff is basically PR speak.

 

In practical terms Council membership is a means of co-opting species that might otherwise threaten it.  Hence why the really peaceful species keep getting put off.  But the really violent species (like Krogan and Batarians) don't get in either, because they wouldn't be co-opted.



#102
Barquiel

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Being judged 'worthy' is such a nebulous prerequisite. What does being worthy entail? A species like the Volus doesn't have the military might of someone like the Turians, but they essentially control the galactic economy, however it is only after their military contributions post ME 3 that they are considered prospective candidates. The Hanar took it upon themselves to rescue another species from extinction, is that not 'worthy' enough to merit Council membership?

 

The problem with the volus is that they are a client species of the turians, including them would just double turian voting power.



#103
Vortex13

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The problem with the volus is that they are a client species of the turians, including them would just double turian voting power.

 

 

True, but then again I always thought that the Volus were too 'nice', always being portrayed as cowardly midgets that capitulated to whatever the bigger, stronger races wanted. They are the client race of the Turians, but they also manage the flow of money for (pretty much) everyone in the galaxy, why wouldn't they use all that wealth, and the power it can buy to set themselves up in galactic politics? Sure the Turians might have 'ownership' of the Volus, but if the Turian councilor is bought off or blackmailed then who is really in charge of that arrangement?

 

Looking at real world politics, often times its the ones with the most money that end up calling the shots, not those that carry the biggest stick.

 

 

 

But back to your post, I guess that could be seen as a problem, but then again wouldn't bringing more new blood into the Council help offset the Turian/Volus voting power? Maybe bring the Hanar, or the Elcor in for diplomatic actions, and maybe the Quarians or Geth in for insight into the Council space bordering the Terminus systems?



#104
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I for one think it's a terrible idea to give power to some groups.

 

The Krogan don't need a say in galactic affairs. What they need is to not be violent and to control their breeding lest we finish the job the Turians and the Salarians started.

 

They're too violent to play nice for a long time. Maybe one day, if they clean up their act. Until then, the most interaction I'm willing to give the Krogan with the rest of the galaxy at large is the battlestation and fleet in orbit with guns aimed at them.

 

Same with the Quarians. 

 

Hell, the only species of the pre-war groups I'd want to have any more power is the Volus, and that's so we can have them manage our economy. 



#105
Vortex13

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I for one think it's a terrible idea to give power to some groups.

 

The Krogan don't need a say in galactic affairs. What they need is to not be violent and to control their breeding lest we finish the job the Turians and the Salarians started.

 

They're too violent to play nice for a long time. Maybe one day, if they clean up their act. Until then, the most interaction I'm willing to give the Krogan with the rest of the galaxy at large is the battlestation and fleet in orbit with guns aimed at them.

 

Same with the Quarians. 

 

Hell, the only species of the pre-war groups I'd want to have any more power is the Volus, and that's so we can have them manage our economy. 

 

No Elcor or Hanar? What about the Rachni (provided they survived the war)? 

 

 

Really, I would trust the Rachni a heck of a lot more than I do the Krogan. Not only are they more reasonable, but they are also more disciplined and efficient, plus they have a breeding rate that puts the Krogan to shame (combat capable soldiers in a matter of weeks instead of years), but unlike the Krogan, the Rachni are more willing to curb their numbers for the sake of efficiency. And unlike the Krogan, they don't have a chip on their shoulder that clouds their logic when it comes to working with the other races of the galaxy against the Reapers.

 

 

I really wish that ME 3 would have let us chose the Rachni for the ground forces over the Krogan. Obviously, I would have tried to have both, because more is better and I made it my mission to try and save as many as I could, but in looking at the logistics of supplying the allied forces with ground troops the Rachni are far less of a headache than the Krogans are. Rachni soldiers have their own natural armor and weapons so no need to worry about supply lines getting them combat tools, and their natural QEC with their Queen means that communications blackouts are completely ineffective against them.

 

I would also submit that the Rachni, as a species, are essentially immune to the effects of indoctrination. Why else would the Reapers have to keep the Queen shackled and retaining her free will if she was nothing more than a baby factory for soon to be Ravengers? It doesn't take higher level thought processes to give birth after all.

 

 

 

In my post-ME 3 galaxy, I would see the Rachni given a role as ground assault forces for the combined Turian/Human fleets, I would also give the Queen; or one of her daughters; a seat on the Council in recognition for the fact that they were literally the only species to wholesale prepare for the Reaper invasion; the fact that the narrative discarded all that off screen is something I will chalk up to bad writing.



#106
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No Elcor or Hanar? What about the Rachni (provided they survived the war)? 

 

 

Really, I would trust the Rachni a heck of a lot more than I do the Krogan. Not only are they more reasonable, but they are also more disciplined and efficient, plus they have a breeding rate that puts the Krogan to shame (combat capable soldiers in a matter of weeks instead of years), but unlike the Krogan, the Rachni are more willing to curb their numbers for the sake of efficiency. And unlike the Krogan, they don't have a chip on their shoulder that clouds their logic when it comes to working with the other races of the galaxy against the Reapers.

 

 

I really wish that ME 3 would have let us chose the Rachni for the ground forces over the Krogan. Obviously, I would have tried to have both, because more is better and I made it my mission to try and save as many as I could, but in looking at the logistics of supplying the allied forces with ground troops the Rachni are far less of a headache than the Krogans are. Rachni soldiers have their own natural armor and weapons so no need to worry about supply lines getting them combat tools, and their natural QEC with their Queen means that communications blackouts are completely ineffective against them.

 

I would also submit that the Rachni, as a species, are essentially immune to the effects of indoctrination. Why else would the Reapers have to keep the Queen shackled and retaining her free will if she was nothing more than a baby factory for soon to be Ravengers? It doesn't take higher level thought processes to give birth after all.

 

 

 

In my post-ME 3 galaxy, I would see the Rachni given a role as ground assault forces for the combined Turian/Human fleets, I would also give the Queen; or one of her daughters; a seat on the Council in recognition for the fact that they were literally the only species to wholesale prepare for the Reaper invasion; the fact that the narrative discarded all that off screen is something I will chalk up to bad writing.

 

No Elcor or Hanar.

 

And no Rachni.

 

The Rachni are a race that I see as more... isolated. I don't think they're a race that will ever really integrate into our own civilization. I think leaving them be, which is what they prefer anyhow, would be best. We know they aren't going to kill us. We know they aren't the same as they once were. But we know that they have very little in common with us, and that they would likely prefer their own company to ours.

 

As for the Elcor and Hanar? Neither are particularly powerful, with neither having any outstanding considerations to warrant their inclusion into the power of the galaxy. Plus, the Elcor got hit pretty bad compared to other races. They don't have the same... resilience as we do. They have a modest military at best, and they don't have a large interest in wanting to run the show. 



#107
themikefest

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The problem with the volus is that they are a client species of the turians, including them would just double turian voting power.

Is it because you're worried the asari won't have a say because the Turians could over rule them?

 

I for one would not have a problem giving a seat to the Volus.

 

Or the asari lose their seat as a punishment for with holding the artifact and give the seat to the Volus



#108
von uber

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Humanity should lose a seat for withholding the crucible plans in the archives and for also supporting cerberus (after all, they are the main corporate players in the alliance).

#109
Barquiel

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Humanity should lose a seat for withholding the crucible plans in the archives and for also supporting cerberus (after all, they are the main corporate players in the alliance).

 

Well, there's an announcement near the end of the game for all traffic for the human embassy to go through the asari embassy...I guess humans become a client race of the asari :D



#110
Vortex13

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And no Rachni.

 

The Rachni are a race that I see as more... isolated. I don't think they're a race that will ever really integrate into our own civilization. I think leaving them be, which is what they prefer anyhow, would be best. We know they aren't going to kill us. We know they aren't the same as they once were. But we know that they have very little in common with us, and that they would likely prefer their own company to ours.

 

 

If the Rachni want to be left alone, I would acknowledge their wishes, but if they want to intermingle with the rest of galactic society, I would let them, especially because they are so different from us.

 

 

Keeping the creepy bug people isolated and separated from the rest of us is only going to breed fear and contempt over time; maybe not for the Rachni because they are so radically different from us in terms of culture and society; but the humans, Turians, Asari, etc. are going to view them with an increasingly paranoid eye the longer our two societies remain segregated. It's a natural instinct; we tend to regard the unknown and the radically different with fear. That's why I would want the Rachni (if they are willing) to be ingrained with society, their presence will become less disruptive the more familiar we are with them.

 

 

In addition to that, I would want the Rachni to have a say in galactic policies, because they are so different from us. The Rachni have a unique perspective on things that we don't have, and I would like politics to have as many different viewpoints as possible when it comes to decision making; it helps combat stagnation and group think.


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#111
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If the Rachni want to be left alone, I would acknowledge their wishes, but if they want to intermingle with the rest of galactic society, I would let them, especially because they are so different from us.

 

 

Keeping the creepy bug people isolated and separated from the rest of us is only going to breed fear and contempt over time; maybe not for the Rachni because they are so radically different from us in terms of culture and society; but the humans, Turians, Asari, etc. are going to view them with an increasingly paranoid eye the longer our two societies remain segregated. It's a natural instinct; we tend to regard the unknown and the radically different with fear. That's why I would want the Rachni (if they are willing) to be ingrained with society, their presence will become less disruptive the more familiar we are with them.

 

 

In addition to that, I would want the Rachni to have a say in galactic policies, because they are so different from us. The Rachni have a unique perspective on things that we don't have, and I would like politics to have as many different viewpoints as possible when it comes to decision making; it helps combat stagnation and group think.

 

I prefer keeping them completely separated. Such differences will inevitably stem to distrust even if you do integrate them. If they want to join society, so be it, but I would find a means to keep them under control. As well, I really don't think that's what they want.

 

You don't need to have them around to keep people informed about them. Let them know that they aren't boogeymen, just creepy bugs that prefer to stick to themselves.

 

I don't think the Rachni have anything valuable or transferable to say politically that is in any way relevant to us. They're a hive mind under a single gestalt collective consciousness. That's almost irreconcilable with our own understanding of power and how we divide it to govern. Your view is idealistic, but naive and misinformed to the nature of politics. There's nothing they have that we would have any practical use for. Being different for the sake of difference is not an advantage.



#112
themikefest

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Well, there's an announcement near the end of the game for all traffic for the human embassy to go through the asari embassy...I guess humans become a client race of the asari :D

That won't last long.

The asari will have other concerns to worry about. Like learning their so-called goddess is really a Prothean. Rioting from there own people about why their own government failed to reveal the artifact. Other species questioning them about not revealing that artifact. Yeah the asari really put themselves in a real mess. 



#113
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I prefer keeping them completely separated. Such differences will inevitably stem to distrust even if you do integrate them. If they want to join society, so be it, but I would find a means to keep them under control. As well, I really don't think that's what they want.

 

You don't need to have them around to keep people informed about them. Let them know that they aren't boogeymen, just creepy bugs that prefer to stick to themselves.

 

I don't think the Rachni have anything valuable or transferable to say politically that is in any way relevant to us. They're a hive mind under a single gestalt collective consciousness. That's almost irreconcilable with our own understanding of power and how we divide it to govern. Your view is idealistic, but naive and misinformed to the nature of politics. There's nothing they have that we would have any practical use for. Being different for the sake of difference is not an advantage.

 

The best thing the rachni could do is have an asari representative that can speak on behalf of the queens. It allows them to communicate to the rest of the council races and allows them to stay at a safe distance.



#114
Vortex13

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I prefer keeping them completely separated. Such differences will inevitably stem to distrust even if you do integrate them. If they want to join society, so be it, but I would find a means to keep them under control. As well, I really don't think that's what they want.

 

You don't need to have them around to keep people informed about them. Let them know that they aren't boogeymen, just creepy bugs that prefer to stick to themselves.

 

I don't think the Rachni have anything valuable or transferable to say politically that is in any way relevant to us. They're a hive mind under a single gestalt collective consciousness. That's almost irreconcilable with our own understanding of power and how we divide it to govern. Your view is idealistic, but naive and misinformed to the nature of politics. There's nothing they have that we would have any practical use for. Being different for the sake of difference is not an advantage.

 

 

I believe the Rachni are a hive minded species, but not a collective consciousness like the Geth. The Queens direct their species overall, but the Drones and Soldiers do posses their own intelligences; after all they were smart enough to break out of Cerberus containment, and establish their own proto-colonies on various uncharted worlds in ME 1. 

 

 

As far as galactic policies are concerned, its true they wouldn't really have too much common ground with individualistic species like us, but what better mediator to settle disputes than an impartial 3rd party? If the Rachni truly have no stake in issues such as tax benefits and budgeting concerns, then they could be used as an effective tie breaker.

 

More than that though, the Rachni could provide an exceptional boon to ground forces as well as engineering projects or finely crafted goods. Why not use their bee-like industry to help with engineering projects in the rebuilding of the galaxy? Why not use the rapidly grown, disciplined, and almost entirely self sufficient Rachni army to help quell land disputes or riots without having to strain a weakened military? 



#115
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Well, there's an announcement near the end of the game for all traffic for the human embassy to go through the asari embassy...I guess humans become a client race of the asari :D

 

Or, you know, it could be because the alliance is too busy fighting a war for survival to be able to come up with an alternate Council member for Udina, what with Arcturus Station destroyed and most of the political leadership dead.

 

We can't all be sitting out the war and thinking we're too good for everything like the Asari. Just sayin'.


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#116
themikefest

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The best thing the rachni could do is have an asari representative that can speak on behalf of the queens. It allows them to communicate to the rest of the council races and allows them to stay at a safe distance.

I wouldn't have an asari representative, since they can't be trusted anymore, to speak for the rachni, but have someone else who is neutral and can be trusted. Heck just have a dead body lying around for the rachni to use. Haha



#117
Vortex13

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The best thing the rachni could do is have an asari representative that can speak on behalf of the queens. It allows them to communicate to the rest of the council races and allows them to stay at a safe distance.

 

 

In truth that's how I picture a Rachni Council member would operate. There is no way the Council Chambers could accommodate a fully developed Queen; though it would help cow disruptive members of the government. "So the Batarians are demanding exclusive trade routes for the boarder colonies? Sure, have them talk to the Queen."  :lol:



#118
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I wouldn't have an asari representative, since they can't be trusted anymore, to speak for the rachni, but have someone else who is neutral and can be trusted. Heck just have a dead body lying around for the rachni to use. Haha

 

 

I believe the Asari are the best suited race for being a spokesmen though, what with their species being natural biotics and all. We know the queen can influence dead or dying species, but that appears to only be over a short distance. The Asari we meet in ME 2 is able to deliver a message from the Rachni from halfway across the galaxy.



#119
KaiserShep

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I wouldn't have an asari representative, since they can't be trusted anymore, to speak for the rachni, but have someone else who is neutral and can be trusted. Heck just have a dead body lying around for the rachni to use. Haha

 

Aside from serving only to freak the hell out of people, it only works at short distance. A living representative with the unique abilities of an asari would allow someone to convey messages light years away.


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#120
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That won't last long.

The asari will have other concerns to worry about. Like learning their so-called goddess is really a Prothean. Rioting from there own people about why their own government failed to reveal the artifact. Other species questioning them about not revealing that artifact. Yeah the asari really put themselves in a real mess.


You mean a religion the Asari had pretty much dumped long ago? The rest of your points are baseless and highly unlikely assumptions.
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#121
themikefest

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You mean a religion the Asari had pretty much dumped long ago? The rest of your points are baseless and highly unlikely assumptions.

They may of dumped it, but still their so-called athame  is a Prothean. Didn't Liara say this would change what they know about themselves? They have to rewrite their history.

 

So you're saying the other species won't question them about not revealing that artifact? You expect the asari would just sit back and not question why their own government didn't reveal that artifact? I'm sure some asari would want answers as to why their own government failed to reveal that artifact and I wouldn't be surprised if they did riot. The asari are already in trouble for withholding that artifact. The robot even told Liara that penalties for withholding anything having to do with the Portheans is among the harshest punishments in  the galaxy



#122
Pasquale1234

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I would also submit that the Rachni, as a species, are essentially immune to the effects of indoctrination. Why else would the Reapers have to keep the Queen shackled and retaining her free will if she was nothing more than a baby factory for soon to be Ravengers? It doesn't take higher level thought processes to give birth after all.


I think it's heavily implied that the Rachni were indoctrinated.

Noveria:
"A tone from space hushed one voice after another. It forced the singers to resonate with its own sour yellow note."

Illium Messenger:
"We hide. We burrow. We build. But we know you seek those who soured the songs of our mothers. When the time comes, our voice will join with yours and our crescendo will burn the darkness clean."
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#123
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I think it's heavily implied that the Rachni were indoctrinated.

Noveria:
"A tone from space hushed one voice after another. It forced the singers to resonate with its own sour yellow note."

Illium Messenger:
"We hide. We burrow. We build. But we know you seek those who soured the songs of our mothers. When the time comes, our voice will join with yours and our crescendo will burn the darkness clean."

 

 

I think that the Leviathans are the ones to blame for the Rachni's 'sour yellow note'. Personally, I don't like it because it kinda derails the Rachni's character a bit "We didn't mean to kill you all in the Rachni Wars, we were mind controlled!" It removes all growth and conflict out of their character (IMO) because it places all their flaws and shortcomings on someone else.

 

 

But anyway, I think that it was the Leviathans instead of the Reapers, because they seems to have a much more powerful form of control, albeit limited in focus than the Reapers' broad but slower acting indoctrination. The major piece of evidence to support this theory is in how Shepard is rendered entirely helpless by the Leviathans when they mind probe him/her, whereas he/she was able to fight against the Reaper's powers in the Arrival DLC and at the end of ME 3.

 

 

Also, I would have to point back to the post I made earlier; if the Reapers were capable of controlling the Rachni Queen, why did they leave her shackled and retaining her free will? If they possessed the ability to commandeer the Rachni, why would the Queen still have higher thought processes, and why would they have to turn everyone of the Rachni young into husks? If they could have assumed direct control of the Queen, they wouldn't have had to worry about making the drones and soldiers into Ravengers, they could have merely had the Queen direct the swarm to attack the allied forces of the galaxy. The fact that they didn't leads me to believe that they couldn't.

 

 

 

Edit: I don't think the even the Rachni know who took control away from them, all signs pointed to the Reapers, but the revelations the Leviathan DLC brings to light; mentions of natural QECs, the Rachni, the Leviathans' powers etc. All points to them being the most likely culprit (IMO).

 

P.S. I always like the way the Rachni talked, the intermingling of sound and color, when they tried to describe things really fit well with their concept.


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#124
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So you're saying the other species won't question them about not revealing that artifact?


Ah, but they did reveal it, to the only ones who could access and understand it, and at exactly the time it was ready to activate. They protected it for millenia, and made it accessible just as their Prothean visitors of long ago had instructed them to do. The other species will hail them as the heroes of the cycle.
 

The asari are already in trouble for withholding that artifact. The robot even told Liara that penalties for withholding anything having to do with the Portheans is among the harshest punishments in the galaxy


Yes, EDI is a great source of info, but she neglected to mention the grandfather clause.

See, I can make up crap, too.

 

I think that the Leviathans are the ones to blame for the Rachni's 'sour yellow note'. Personally, I don't like it because it kinda derails the Rachni's character a bit "We didn't mean to kill you all in the Rachni Wars, we were mind controlled!" It removes all growth and conflict out of their character (IMO) because it places all their flaws and shortcomings on someone else.


It's possible, I suppose. The actual message (on Illium) says "But we know you seek those who soured the songs of our mothers" - and in ME2, Shepard is seeking the Collectors (who work for the Reapers).
 

Also, I would have to point back to the post I made earlier; if the Reapers were capable of controlling the Rachni Queen, why did they leave her shackled and retaining her free will?


Was that the original Rachni queen Shepard released, or a clone? If it's a clone, you're looking at a lot of theorycrafting to suss it all out.

But honestly - sometimes the things that happen in games have to do with budget and gameplay. It may be that she was shackled because they didn't want to design combat with her, and it gave the player another opportunity to decide whether to free her.
 

P.S. I always like the way the Rachni talked, the intermingling of sound and color, when they tried to describe things really fit well with their concept.


They are an intriguing species. I'd like to see more of them.
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#125
Vortex13

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Was that the original Rachni queen Shepard released, or a clone? If it's a clone, you're looking at a lot of theorycrafting to suss it all out.

But honestly - sometimes the things that happen in games have to do with budget and gameplay. It may be that she was shackled because they didn't want to design combat with her, and it gave the player another opportunity to decide whether to free her.

 
 
The original Rachni queen. The clone is actually very antagonistic and attacks the Crucible engineers if you free it.
 
My position on the clone is that since it was frankenstein-ed together by the Reapers that it was rather insane; but even then, the clone was possessed of its own (schizophrenic) will. You would think that the Reapers would have removed any form of rebellious tendencies from the clone, but that is obviously not the case, which points back to the Rachni being innately resistant to indoctrination.
 

They are an intriguing species. I'd like to see more of them.

 

 

Same here. 

 

Personally, I hope that all species are present in future titles, the setting losses much of its unique flavor without them.


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