221 réponses à ce sujet

[monicasubzero]

I'm going to replay my canon playthrough because I want to re-make some decisions and in particular I'm thinking about conscripting the Mages insted of allying with them.

My Inquisitor is a human Mage, but she always respected the Circles as an institution for education and protection of the mages. Freeing them, especially after Fiona showed how they can be manipulated, isn't the best choice anymore. 

Moreover, the conscription seems to be the best choice also in the epilogue, independently on who becomes Divine. I think I will go for Leliana this time, instead of Cassandra.

 

What's your opinion about the conscription?

[happy_daiz]

My thought is that I need to try it sometime. So far, I've always allied with them, rather than conscripting them.

 

Personally... I prefer the Templar side, story and outcome-wise, but I switch back and forth, based on what seems right for the character. Two have sided with Mages, two with Templars thus far.

[Wulfram]

If you're looking for Leliana as Divine, you'd better be pretty careful with your other choices or you've got a pretty high chance of getting Vivienne

[Kurt M.]

Conscription + save Celene = that beotch of Vivienne becomes Divine.

 

I don't want that (and I want badly the Winter palace' Inquisitor Amulet of Power), so I'll go for freedom next time.

[Raiil]

Innocent until proven guilty. Fiona is a blithering idiot but the mages themselves had no choice and were scared. I go for, in my canon playthrough, an alliance.

 

I always approve of Vivienne's suggestion of having 'hidden' templars in the ranks, though.

[monicasubzero]

I was able to have Leliana as Divine in a playthrough were I allied with the Templars and I saved Celene and reunited her with Briala. 

 

 

Of course, the Mages were innocent, just Fiona was a "little" stupid to side with Alexius. I'm just thinking that in the long term point of view, conscription seems a better choice. These are the lines you get in the epilogue if you conscribe the Mages (from http://dragonage.wik...e_(Inquisition) )

 

Cassandra is Divine

In the end, they accept Cassandra's invitation to rejoin the Circle of Magi, but as a new college called the Bright Hand.

It is not long before this new college dominates, pushing for reform and close ties to the Inquisition.

Rumors begin to circulate of a split within the Circle, a shadow war against the new college by unknown forces.

Leliana is Divine

When Leliana disbands the Circles, they remain with the Inquisition and form a new college called the Bright Hand.

To many, this new order represents the best of mages, an example for the rest of Thedas to follow.

Vivienne is Divine

In the end, they elect to leave the Inquisition and refuse Vivienne's demand that they join the reformed Circle of Magi.

However, this new mage rebellion does not last, as the Divine brings down her fury upon them.

Some mages surrender; others return to the Inquisition. Either way, the new Circle of Magi stands triumphant.

 

 

while these are the lines you get if you ally with them:

 

Cassandra is Divine

In the end, they refuse Cassandra's invitation to rejoin the Circle of Magi and instead reform the College of Enchanters as a new order.

The College, they say will allow mages of the South to gather in peace and seek new solutions to age-old problems.

From the beginning, the College and the Circle have clashed – and some fear it will lead to a new war of the mages upon themselves.

Leliana is Divine

When Leliana disbands the Circles, they leave the Inquisition and reform the College of Enchanters as a new order.

The College, they say will allow mages of the South to gather in peace and seek new solutions to age-old problems.

For the moment, it appears to be working – mages are enjoying unprecedented acceptance throughout Thedas.

Vivienne is Divine

In the end, they refuse Vivienne's invitation to rejoin the Circle of Magi and instead reform the College of Enchanters as a new order.

The reaction from the new Divine is instantaneous: a war to dissolve the College before it begins.

Some mages surrender; others return to the Inquisition. Either way, the new Circle of Magi stands triumphant.

 

So, it seems that if you side with Mages (alliance or conscription), Leliana is the best choice as Divine, while Cassandra leads to a new war. Vivienne destroys any kind of rebellion in both cases, so she's the worst choice as Divine. 

[Lady Elsa]

I'm going to replay my canon playthrough because I want to re-make some decisions and in particular I'm thinking about conscripting the Mages insted of allying with them.

My Inquisitor is a human Mage, but she always respected the Circles as an institution for education and protection of the mages. Freeing them, especially after Fiona showed how they can be manipulated, isn't the best choice anymore. 

Moreover, the conscription seems to be the best choice also in the epilogue, independently on who becomes Divine. I think I will go for Leliana this time, instead of Cassandra.

 

What's your opinion about the conscription?

 

My canon human mage conscripted the mages and was able to get Leli as divine and I really liked that ending. She felt that Fiona and the rebels needed to be held accountable for the damage (Fiona especially should not be in a leadership position again) but that doesn't mean future generations of mages and those who didn't take part in the war shouldn't have a chance at independence. The fact that the ex-rebels remain with the Inquisition and become a positive example to others in that ending felt good also. 

[Unpleasant Implications]

Mages always seem like a good choice. Then you let them be...

Vivienne destroys any kind of rebellion in both cases, so she's the worst choice as Divine.

Divine is the only thing Vivienne is good for.

[DanAxe]

I thought about conscripting them in future playthroughs aswell, but after my first playthrough, knowing the truth about Blackwall... I just cant do it, because the conscription has no authority in the end, and if the mages ever learn about it they will be pissed at the Inquisitor, making for a very awkward situation. Might as well ally with them, but ask Vivienne to assign some templars to watch them secretely.

[Raiil]

I thought about conscripting them in future playthroughs aswell, but after my first playthrough, knowing the truth about Blackwall... I just cant do it, because the conscription has no authority in the end, and if the mages ever learn about it they will be pissed at the Inquisitor, making for a very awkward situation. Might as well ally with them, but ask Vivienne to assign some templars to watch them secretely.

 

 

You're not conscripting them for the the Wardens, though, that choice exists outside of the treaties or even having them- I didn't snap up Blackwall until right before Adamant and only spoke to him once I killed Corypheus at the victory banquet . You're conscripting them more or less out of show of force and because they have no where to go and need safe haven.

[monicasubzero]

In my opinion, Mages need a guide, they're not ready to be free especially not in this situation, where the world is in chaos (Civil war in Orlais, the Qunari that are moving towards Tevinter, Elves who are still wandering), they need a safe place to stay. 

Fiona is responsible for her actions, she was the leader and she put the fate of the mages in Tevinter's hands. She doesn't deserve an alliance now. 

I like Templars' story as well, but I want to side with the Mages in my canon.

 

 

My canon human mage conscripted the mages and was able to get Leli as divine and I really liked that ending. She felt that Fiona and the rebels needed to be held accountable for the damage (Fiona especially should not be in a leadership position again) but that doesn't mean future generations of mages and those who didn't take part in the war shouldn't have a chance at independence. The fact that the ex-rebels remain with the Inquisition and become a positive example to others in that ending felt good also. 

 

So, Lady Elsa, you're telling me that it's possible? And what about Orlais? Who did you choose to rule over it? 

[Lady Elsa]

So, Lady Elsa, you're telling me that it's possible? And what about Orlais? Who did you choose to rule over it? 

 

Its possible, though not easy since you start out with -10 with Lels after conscription and Viv gets +10. The easiest way is not to recruit Viv and be pro mage freedom/anti chantry in dialogue, don't encourage Cas and support Lelliana when possible. That way you don't have to worry about Orlais choice as much (I had Celene/Brialla reunite). I think it can still be managed with Viv but then you really have to metagame you choices...I would be interested to hear if someone managed that. 

 

Agreed about the mages. The alliance choice was too optimistic for me in the context of that scene, my mage inky believed in second chances but she also believed in restoring order and holding people accountable. 

[monicasubzero]

Well, so I can recruit Vivienne later in the game and then Leliana should have an advantage, right?

 

I've always been pro-Mages in DA:O and DA2. I decided to destroy the Circle of DA:O only in my 4th playthrough and in DA2 I've always been doubtful when siding with the Templars. In Inquisition Mages and Templars are in the same situation and the decision on the side to take is quite difficult.

 

Moreover, in my opinion allying or conscripting the Mages doesn't make a big difference (except for the freedom Mages will have, but it's not the right time as Vivienne points out when talking about the rebellion), while allying and disbanding the Templar order is a very big decision.

[Boost32]

Well, so I can recruit Vivienne later in the game and then Leliana should have an advantage, right?

No, if you recruit her she will get the advantage.

[ElementalFury106]

I'm actually one of the few who prefer to Conscript the Mages, for the same reasons you stated. No matter the situation, they endangered everyone. Alliance with Tevinter, as Connor said, basically treason. They drove the villagers of Redcliffe from their homes, including the Arl. The apostates that defected created a massive wide-spread war. And of course we all saw the possible future that would've came to be had the Inquisitor not intervened...

 

You don't simply offer an alliance after that. The Mages are not to be rewarded after such a display, there need to be ramifications. However, their cooperation is also absolutely necessary to close The Breach, so they should be conscripted.

 

Let their conscription be their opportunity to prove themselves, to show them once again that bad decisions have bad consequences. Should they prove themselves, their conscription could be eventually lifted. Until then, they have safety and political immunity with the Inquisition from the Chantry, so it's not as if they don't benefit at all from this conscription.

[ElementalFury106]

Conscription + save Celene = that beotch of Vivienne becomes Divine.

 

I don't want that (and I want badly the Winter palace' Inquisitor Amulet of Power), so I'll go for freedom next time.

 

Not always true. I did both of those things and got Cassandra.

[Gervaise]

I allied with mages first time round and was really annoyed that I could do nothing about removing Fiona as their leader.   Then I was really fed up at the end because I had Cassandra as Divine and Fiona seemed to be causing trouble all over again.   Naturally with Lelianna as Divine everything seems okay but it does seem a bit pot luck who you get and I didn't want an unredeemed Lelianna as Divine anyway.

 

The more I thought about it, the more I felt that if I was taking the mage path I should conscript them.   Although Fiona seems to be still their spokesperson, they are meant to be under our control.    I'm surprised there isn't more of a backlash from Ferelden if you ally with the mages.   They really did betray the monarch and the people of Ferelden in throwing their lot in with Tevinter, even if they weren't aware of the link with the Venatori.    If you have Anora on the throne alone it severely compromises her leadership because she had given an impassioned speech to her people six months previously persuading them to give the mages sanctuary and they go along with it because they trust her judgement.   Their trust is rewarded by having the rebellion come onto their doorstep and then the mages turning to a hostile foreign power when things appear to be getting tough.     Most of the mages I talked to weren't happy with Fiona's decision but were meekly going along with it.    No one asked me to take them out of there, which I would have been happy to have done.      Lelianna is all bleeding hearts over them, saying it was that or death, which is exaggerating I feel but nevertheless as Felix says, "Some things are worse than death", so he clearly has a better sense of honour than they do because to my mind selling out the people of Ferelden to a Tevinter magister, regardless of the fact that he is also Venatori, is something they should have fought tooth and nail to prevent.

[Fullmetall21]

I'm actually one of the few who prefer to Conscript the Mages, for the same reasons you stated. No matter the situation, they endangered everyone. Alliance with Tevinter, as Connor said, basically treason. They drove the villagers of Redcliffe from their homes, including the Arl. The apostates that defected created a massive wide-spread war. And of course we all saw the possible future that would've came to be had the Inquisitor not intervened...

 

You don't simply offer an alliance after that. The Mages are not to be rewarded after such a display, there need to be ramifications. However, their cooperation is also absolutely necessary to close The Breach, so they should be conscripted.

 

Let their conscription be their opportunity to prove themselves, to show them once again that bad decisions have bad consequences. Should they prove themselves, their conscription could be eventually lifted. Until then, they have safety and political immunity with the Inquisition from the Chantry, so it's not as if they don't benefit at all from this conscription.

 

I totally agree with this. Even though I'm pro templar since the first game, so I rarely get the mages in this game my opinion is that mages are always trouble in the world of Thedas. Of course that doesn't mean that all are bad however if even one mage goes sideways it always backfires to everyone around them. Circe situation back in origins, Kirkwall and Fiona practically selling her people to Tevinter are prime examples of that. And while the Templars are not perfect they are the lesser of two evils. I only ally with the mages when I absolutely want Leliana as Divine.

[Lady Elsa]

Well, so I can recruit Vivienne later in the game and then Leliana should have an advantage, right?

 

I've always been pro-Mages in DA:O and DA2. I decided to destroy the Circle of DA:O only in my 4th playthrough and in DA2 I've always been doubtful when siding with the Templars. In Inquisition Mages and Templars are in the same situation and the decision on the side to take is quite difficult.

 

Moreover, in my opinion allying or conscripting the Mages doesn't make a big difference (except for the freedom Mages will have, but it's not the right time as Vivienne points out when talking about the rebellion), while allying and disbanding the Templar order is a very big decision.

 

As far as I am aware the game still assigns points to Viv even if you recruit her post-haven. It implies that being a part of the Inquisition is what allows her to promote herself as a candidate. 

 

I did lean towards mages in past games as well but really liked the Templar quest in DAI and the redemption type story that comes with it. I have very mixed feelings about the mages in this game...

[Bad King]

In my opinion conscription is the better choice as it means that the mages can be better controlled and monitored by the Inquisition at a time when they're most vulnerable to demonic possession (due to the Breach). Plus the foundation of the Bright Hand College in the epilogue gives the mages and Thedas a better, more stable future - the College gains much needed reforms without full freedom being granted (which is too risky in my view). 

[Lady Elsa]

In my opinion conscription is the better choice as it means that the mages can be better controlled and monitored by the Inquisition in a time when they're most vulnerable to demonic possession (due to the Breach). Plus the foundation of the Bright Hand College in the epilogue gives the mages and Thedas a better, more stable future - the College gains much needed reforms without full freedom being granted (which is too risky in my view). 

 

Is the Bright Hand described as a replacement for the college of Enchanters though? My impression was that it is an Order voluntarily formed by the ex-rebels as part of the Inquisition.  Lelliana disbands the circles so the mages outside the Inquisition and future mages a technically free to form their own institutions? My personal headcanon was that my mage Inky leads the new Order and turns a part of Skyhold into a college/mage snactuary which other mages are free to join. The epilogues are pretty vague though...

[ThreeF]

No, if you recruit her she will get the advantage.

hmm....will she get the points if you recruit her after doing the mage quest?

 

OP, I've done it, you will have to be careful around Vivienne, there is room to wriggle even with having Celene on the throne and Gaspard spared.

 

You will have to recruit the Wardens.

Declare inquisition for power or because it is right.

Avoid having conversations about the Divine choice with Cassandra and Vivienne, you can tell Cassandra to forget the Chantry, but don't even bother with Vivienne.

Say that chantry did terrible to mother Giselle and that Chantry is relic to Dorian. Generally be very anti-chantry especially when talking to Leliana about it.

[Boost32]

hmm....will she get the points if you recruit her after doing the mage quest?
 
OP, I've done it, you will have to be careful around Vivienne, there is room to wriggle even with having Celene on the throne and Gaspard spared.
 
You will have to recruit the Wardens.
Declare inquisition for power or because it is right.
Avoid having conversations about the Divine choice with Cassandra and Vivienne, you can tell Cassandra to forget the Chantry, but don't even bother with Vivienne.
Say that chantry did terrible to mother Giselle and that Chantry is relic to Dorian. Generally be very anti-chantry especially when talking to Leliana about it.

Yes, the only way is not recruiting her.

And you can speak with her about the Divine, just choose Leliana is a better candidate.

[ThreeF]

Yes, the only way is not recruiting her.

And you can speak with her about the Divine, just choose Leliana is a better candidate.

Ah yeah forgot about that option. But you can have her recruited, conscript mages and have Leliana as Divine, I've done it.

[SgtSteel91]

Why not ally with the Mages? Fiona says it herself, they were desperate for allies after the Conclave was destroyed and any chance for peace with it. They never wanted a war, they wanted to be able to govern themselves without the Templars breathing down their necks, at best, or abused by them, at worst. The Templars were the ones who made this an open conflict. She's the one who comes to you offering the alliance. But Alexius messed with time to get to her first and used spies to push her and the rest of the Mages into taking his deal. They aren't at fault for what happens in Redcliff, they're as much as victims as Arl Tegan. It's all on Alexius and the Elder One; it's why Alexius is the one you're judging. 

 

Fiona and the rest of them know it was a bad move but they thought it was the only one open to them at that time. Give them a chance to prove themselves and they don't betray you, they help seal the breach, and none of them become possessed while allies of the Inquisition.

 

You can also ally with them and make it clear that it's probation for the Mages, also giving a chance to prove they deserve real freedom.