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[Boost32]

There's a whole other thread, fifty pages worth, of nonstop Fiona spew.

While I was on topic, I recognize it was not necessary. Your message about Fiona was not aimed to me and I barged into the conversation, Im sorry.

[QueenCrow]

@ thesuperdarkone2 and Boost32

 

Thank you both for that tidbit of information regarding siding with the Mages.  I was thinking about asking the Templars for help next run, but Samson is too compelling and I needed to know what you've offered.

 

Samson as tragic figure has definitely made the game more interesting.

[Boost32]

@ thesuperdarkone2 and Boost32
 
Thank you both for that tidbit of information regarding siding with the Mages.  I was thinking about asking the Templars for help next run, but Samson is too compelling and I needed to know what you've offered.
 
Samson as tragic figure has definitely made the game more interesting.

There are a few information about Samson in the templar side, like discovering he was the responsible for the plan to corrupt the templars at Therinfal.

Spoiler

[fizzypop]

If you want leilana as a divine then why bother conscripting at all? In the end they will be free. I'm pretty sure no matter what you do Fiona leads them off to forum some college for mages. If you don't want them to be free you would be better off siding with the templars and making Vivi divine.

[Boost32]

If you want leilana as a divine then why bother conscripting at all? In the end they will be free. I'm pretty sure no matter what you do Fiona leads them off to forum some college for mages. If you don't want them to be free you would be better off siding with the templars and making Vivi divine.

I think the OP wants the mages to be free, but thinks the rebels at Redcliff should be punished for what they did.

[fizzypop]

In my opinion, Mages need a guide, they're not ready to be free especially not in this situation, where the world is in chaos (Civil war in Orlais, the Qunari that are moving towards Tevinter, Elves who are still wandering), they need a safe place to stay. 

But Leilana does the exact opposite of that. She gives them freedom and for the most part doesn't give them any oversight. So your choice seems to kind of contradict what you want.

[Boost32]

But Leilana does the exact opposite of that. She gives them freedom and for the most part doesn't give them any oversight. So your choice seems to kind of contradict what you want.

If they are conscripted and Leliana is made Divine, they stay in the Inquisition and form a group called The Bright Hand, so they still have a oversight, but the others mages are free.

[fizzypop]

I think the OP wants the mages to be free, but thinks the rebels at Redcliff should be punished for what they did.

But Vivi is really the only one who does that even if you conscript the mages Leliana doesn't do anything. They form a new order and there is zero mention of oversight. Given Leliana's views on mages I highly doubt she's watching over them. She is pretty pro-mage. Vivi or cass would be a better choice.

[fizzypop]

If they are conscripted and Leliana is made Divine, they stay in the Inquisition and form a group called The Bright Hand, so they still have a oversight, but the others mages are free.

I disagree. There is no mention of oversight at all. Just that they remain in the inquisition and form a new group. That's really not oversight. That's like saying there was oversight of Solas because he was part of the inquisition, but we know that's not true. Same for Blackwall. All of this happened right under the nose of the inquisition. So like I said no mention of oversight...there is really no reason to think they can't just do whatever they want anyways.

[Lumix19]

I disagree. There is no mention of oversight at all. Just that they remain in the inquisition and form a new group. That's really not oversight. That's like saying there was oversight of Solas because he was part of the inquisition, but we know that's not true. Same for Blackwall. All of this happened right under the nose of the inquisition. So like I said no mention of oversight...there is really no reason to think they can't just do whatever they want anyways.

Solas and Blackwall were given oversight (in a sense). But it's hard to guess that one has assumed another's identity and that the other is an elven god. What sort of oversight are you imagining?

[Ranadiel Marius]

While preparing to retreat, likely across the water.

Anyway it matters sod all what people think of Fiona's decision. It was hers, not all the mages'. People who just want to punish all of them because they despise Fiona are poor leaders. As I said earlier, conscription benefits templars and allying benefits the mages, from a purely practical standpoint. Unless, of course, you just want to lock the mages back up once you're done with them. Which is where I suspect most of this mindset comes from.

That's fine. I also take pleasure in disbanding the templars, even though I think it's simply a pragmatic choice.

Right! They only took over the castle because it was necessary to perform their retreat! Which is why there were absolutely no rebel mages in Radcliffe in the vision of the future. Because they had all left so that the Arl could have his home back. >.>

And the reason to conscript the mages is because the rebellion was their shot to show that they are better than the propaganda against them, and they failed in just about every regard. Was that all Fiona's fault? Hard to say, but they blew their chance. For Templars, I think allying works fine if you have Ser Barris to lead them to remake them according to their ideals, but I have no real issue with people who choose conscript, especially if Barris is dead.

[Vit246]

Right! They only took over the castle because it was necessary to perform their retreat! Which is why there were absolutely no rebel mages in Radcliffe in the vision of the future. Because they had all left so that the Arl could have his home back. >.>

And the reason to conscript the mages is because the rebellion was their shot to show that they are better than the propaganda against them, and they failed in just about every regard. Was that all Fiona's fault? Hard to say, but they blew their chance. For Templars, I think allying works fine if you have Ser Barris to lead them to remake them according to their ideals, but I have no real issue with people who choose conscript, especially if Barris is dead.

.....

Sheesh..... y'know, y'all people put a TON of burden on the mages to..... conduct themselves accordingly despite the odds stacked against them.

.....

And such finality!

"they blew their chance." 

"Mages cannot be trusted!"

"Punish them all with conscription!"

 

I know, I am speaking in hyperbole, but you get the idea.

And I'm not just talking about Redcliffe specifically.

Eh, look at me, I am ranting again.

[Addai]

I know, I am speaking in hyperbole, but you get the idea.

And I'm not just talking about Redcliffe specifically.

Eh, look at me, I am ranting again.

That's not hyperbole around here, friend. It's mild.

 

Of course, you're right. No one thinks that all Orlesians should be punished because Gaspard and Celene started a war, or that all templars should be punished. I think it's a fandom version of  the Stanford Prison Experiment. You see a group who's oppressed in the game world, who has no rights, and get jollies out of finishing the job. The elf haters are the same way. You don't see dedicated dwarf haters, or rogue haters. Think about it.

[thesuperdarkone2]

That's not hyperbole around here, friend. It's mild.

 

Of course, you're right. No one thinks that all Orlesians should be punished because Gaspard and Celene started a war, or that all templars should be punished. I think it's a fandom version of  the Stanford Prison Experiment. You see a group who's oppressed in the game world, who has no rights, and get jollies out of finishing the job. The elf haters are the same way. You don't see dedicated dwarf haters, or rogue haters. Think about it.

I've always wondered what would happen on these forums if mage freedom doesn't backfire. I suspect the templar supporters would still find excuses to hate on mages even when proven wrong.

[Vit246]

And such leniency on Lambert and Lucius and the Templars. Or is that hyperbole again?

Maybe someone should start a similar sounding thread titled like Player Hatred of Lambert and Lucius and their Templars and the lack thereof of said player hatred. Maybe I'll start one. Or am I wrong about that?

[Addai]

And such leniency on Lambert and Lucius and the Templars. Or is that hyperbole again?

Maybe someone should start a similar sounding thread titled like Player Hatred of Lambert and Lucius and their Templars and the lack thereof of said player hatred. Maybe I'll start one. Or am I wrong about that?

Lambert and Lucius were total putzes. If people don't hate them, I'd be worried.

[Boost32]

And such leniency on Lambert and Lucius and the Templars. Or is that hyperbole again?

Maybe someone should start a similar sounding thread titled like Player Hatred of Lambert and Lucius and their Templars and the lack thereof of said player hatred. Maybe I'll start one. Or am I wrong about that?

Vivienne and Fiona have one, so I see no problem if you create one for them.

[Xilizhra]

And such leniency on Lambert and Lucius and the Templars. Or is that hyperbole again?

Maybe someone should start a similar sounding thread titled like Player Hatred of Lambert and Lucius and their Templars and the lack thereof of said player hatred. Maybe I'll start one. Or am I wrong about that?

Well, Lambert and Lucius, admittedly, are obviously supposed to be villains, so there's less controversy. Fiona doesn't have that quality.

[Bad King]

I disagree. There is no mention of oversight at all. Just that they remain in the inquisition and form a new group. That's really not oversight. That's like saying there was oversight of Solas because he was part of the inquisition, but we know that's not true. Same for Blackwall. All of this happened right under the nose of the inquisition. So like I said no mention of oversight...there is really no reason to think they can't just do whatever they want anyways.

 

The ending slides are rather short and vague, so there isn't really any definitive evidence either way, but surely if the Inquisition conscripted and oversaw the mages following 'In Hushed Whispers' then they'd keep a similar relationship going after the mages form The Bright Hand? 

 

Also, it's unclear whether all mages are obligated by law to join The Bright Hand or whether they can choose not to. I imagine that Leliana disbanded the circles with the aim of having the mages establish their own order to replace the previous system as the faction that all mage-born people must join.

[Ranadiel Marius]

I've always wondered what would happen on these forums if mage freedom doesn't backfire. I suspect the templar supporters would still find excuses to hate on mages even when proven wrong.

I've always wondered what would happen if mage freedom results in Southern Theda's becoming a fiery crater of a no man's land. I suspect mage supporters would still find excuses to hate on templars even when proven wrong.

[Lady Elsa]

I disagree. There is no mention of oversight at all. Just that they remain in the inquisition and form a new group. That's really not oversight. That's like saying there was oversight of Solas because he was part of the inquisition, but we know that's not true. Same for Blackwall. All of this happened right under the nose of the inquisition. So like I said no mention of oversight...there is really no reason to think they can't just do whatever they want anyways.

 

Depends on your interpretation and your inquisitor. There is nothing in the ending slides to contradict that the Bright Hand becomes a mage order with Inquisition patronage and oversight, especially if the Inky is also a mage.  Choosing conscription and Leli as divine can easily be interpreted as mages in general being free to choose how to organize and what institutions to form/join; Fiona and the rebels however are not part of that process as they already chose to stay with the Inquisition and become a good example to others. Thus the inquisitor can be the one directly influencing/guiding the direction many mages will go and potentially inspiring others.

 

Fortunately it is pretty much left up to the player's imagination at this point...

[turuzzusapatuttu]

Great, it makes sense for my Dalish to support reformation and I want Leliana to be free to reunite with my Warden

 

Leliana stays with the Warden even if she is elected Divine, as stated by Patrick Weekes himself