I don't see why the Quizzy would have to work for the information on Flemeth considering he/she was just a bystander pretty much to the event going on. The scene was more about Morrigan/Flemeth than Quizzy/Flemeth. I had Morrigan drink from the Well though.
If the Quizzy drank from the well, they have more than enough reason to want to investigate Flemeth. They are her slave now, after all.
If the Quizzy drank from the well, they have more than enough reason to want to investigate Flemeth. They are her slave now, after all.
I'm always sad to see a powerful character go down easily... and especially a powerful female character. Perhaps she did deserve a better send-off, if nothing else.
Kudos to Bioware, though, for having older women as strong characters. In movies, you see Liam Neeson, Denzel, etc kicking butt, but you NEVER see an older woman in a powerful position. But we have Meredith, Wynne, Flemeth and Clarel.
Very true, haven't gone that route personally yet. Wouldn't the connection to Flemeth make it revelant to bring up the origin of Mythal all the more so.
Yes, since Bioware has gone that route, the Quizzy should definitely have learned the origin of Mythal, especially if they drank from the well. That's not my argument though. My argument is that Flemeth should have been allowed to stand on her own two feet as an antagonist without just being Mythal's henchman. It diminishes all the build up she's been getting for two whole games in my opinion, as well as downgrading her as a badass character. She didn't do any of this for herself. All the shady mysterious stuff she did was all in the name of Mythal. I just think it's disappointing that she isn't the big bad, and that her story was wrapped up this way.
I'm always sad to see a powerful character go down easily... and especially a powerful female character. Perhaps she did deserve a better send-off, if nothing else.
A nice boss battle would have sufficed. I think Flemeth should have gone out with a bang, not sacrificing herself for Solas.
Yes, since Bioware has gone that route, the Quizzy should definitely have learned the origin of Mythal, especially if they drank from the well. That's not my argument though. My argument is that Flemeth should have been allowed to stand on her own two feet as an antagonist without just being Mythal's henchman. It diminishes all the build up she's been getting for two whole games in my opinion, as well as downgrading her as a badass character. She didn't do any of this for herself. All the shady mysterious stuff she did was all in the name of Mythal. I just think it's disappointing that she isn't the big bad, and that her story was wrapped up this way.
Yes. As I understand the lore (correct me if I am wrong) Flemeth as a young woman, agreed (and actually initiated and negotiated) basically the sale of herself from her love and husband, to Conobar... so that her husband wouldn't have to struggle any longer.... and instead of honoring the deal, the noble had her poet pud husband executed...
and this is the Great Injustice Mythal felt the need to avenege????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Seriously, with all the atroicious suffering in Thedas, rapes, murders, destruction of children... and THIS weak ass story is the one Mythal was attracted to? A woman who cried out in the dark... a woman who negotiated the sale of herself to a noble and is pissed off because he didn't have the not-overly-unexpectedly-gaul keep his part of the bargain, and that's the great Theodosian injustice that has to be avenged...
On the misery scale, Flemeth's tale of woe ranks about 10,704,271. Flemeth's 'backstory' was about as lame as it gets.
I thought her scene (the version with Morrigan and the OGB in the Fade) was great.
When she shouted, "And I shall see her avenged!!!" (complete with the echo effect in the fade) I got goosebumps.
I like how her plan with the OGB was wrapped up. That being said, I don't want this to be the end for Flemeth. I love her too much.
She's just too badass and crafty to be gone for good. I refuse to believe that she "died." I believe she sent a piece of herself through the eluvian just before Solas got his grubby little paws on her.
I'm just gonna say that I'm something of an apologist for Inquisition.
I've defended a lot of its combat mechanics and story elements even when I had to admit to myself that perhaps I'm to far up the game's rectum to notice its faults. I mean, seriously, I've done hours of those mostly grinding fetch quests without even a sigh or growl. So, you'd think I'd completely alright with Flemeth's cameo at the latter part of the game if I could stand fetch quests, Fiona, stupid Wardens, health potion backtracking and a crappy PS3 port.
But when Flemeth showed up I... I just...
SCREAMED AT MY FREAKING TV SCREEN LIKE A CHILD!!!!
I'm so done with Flemeth and her coy, never gonna explain what the **** is going on, Cassandra-grade BS. Seriously, lady, just fricking tell me what's happening so I help you already. Even in this game when it looks like she's going to explain all she still manages to kick truth and transparency straight in the balls and waste more of time with her crap. Why couldn't she help the Elves? Not gonna tell you. Who killed you? Not gonna tell you? What the heck are you. Not gonna tell you, or rather, I'm going tell you just enough so that you can be incredibly annoyed and still want full answers.
I know, I know, the game wants you to be in suspense and wonder about what is really going on in the lore, but at this point in this series I really don't care anymore. Just have Solas give me an exposition dump so that we can finally move on. Please.
Blurgh. Honestly, it wouldn't surprise if she got killed after giving one of her typical no-answers to Elagar'nan who just got fed up with it and nuked her.
Yes. As I understand the lore (correct me if I am wrong) Flemeth as a young woman, agreed (and actually initiated and negotiated) basically the sale of herself from her love and husband, to Conobar... so that her husband wouldn't have to struggle any longer.... and instead of honoring the deal, the noble had her poet pud husband executed...
and this is the Great Injustice Mythal felt the need to avenege????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Seriously, with all the atroicious suffering in Thedas, rapes, murders, destruction of children... and THIS weak ass story is the one Mythal was attracted to? A woman who cried out in the dark... a woman who negotiated the sale of herself to a noble and is pissed off because he didn't have the not-overly-unexpectedly-gaul keep his part of the bargain, and that's the great Theodosian injustice that has to be avenged...
On the misery scale, Flemeth's tale of woe ranks about 10,704,271. Flemeth's 'backstory' was about as lame as it gets.
I agree with this. It can be argued that Mythal was attracted to Flemeth's thirst for revenge, and could relate to her since they were both betrayed. Her being a mage helps as well. However, I have a hard time believing she would help a human. I'm sure there were plenty of elven women out there who was similar to Flemeth.
When she shouted, "And I shall see her avenged!!!" (complete with the echo effect in the fade) I got goosebumps.
But that's the thing. Since Origins we've been led to believe that Flemeth is self serving and all about survival/self preservation by any means necessary. I can't see her just being Mythal's henchman or care about her vengeance at all. She should be avenging herself, not Mythal. Remember when she told the Warden that the world had done horrible things to her? You would think she would want to wreak havoc upon Thedas for herself, not bending the knee to anyone else.
I know it's not my story, but I wanted Flemeth to have an agenda that dealt with gaining power for herself, and possibly conquering Thedas. I had this theory that she was an Old God, since she could shapeshift into a dragon and wanted Morrigan to preserve the soul of Urthemiel. But that's neither here nor there.
I agree with this. It can be argued that Mythal was attracted to Flemeth's thirst for revenge, and could relate to her since they were both betrayed. Her being a mage helps as well. However, I have a hard time believing she would help a human. I'm sure there were plenty of elven women out there who was similar to Flemeth.
But that's the thing. Since Origins we've been led to believe that Flemeth is self serving and all about survival/self preservation by any means necessary. I can't see her just being Mythal's henchman or care about her vengeance at all. She should be avenging herself, not Mythal. Remember when she told the Warden that the world had done horrible things to her? You would think she would want to wreak havoc upon Thedas for herself, not bending the knee to anyone else.
I know it's not my story, but I wanted Flemeth to have an agenda that dealt with gaining power for herself, and possibly conquering Thedas. I had this theory that she was an Old God, since she could shapeshift into a dragon and wanted Morrigan to preserve the soul of Urthemiel. But that's neither here nor there.
I agree with this. It can be argued that Mythal was attracted to Flemeth's thirst for revenge, and could relate to her since they were both betrayed. Her being a mage helps as well. However, I have a hard time believing she would help a human. I'm sure there were plenty of elven women out there who was similar to Flemeth.
But that's the thing. Since Origins we've been led to believe that Flemeth is self serving and all about survival/self preservation by any means necessary. I can't see her just being Mythal's henchman or care about her vengeance at all. She should be avenging herself, not Mythal. Remember when she told the Warden that the world had done horrible things to her? You would think she would want to wreak havoc upon Thedas for herself, not bending the knee to anyone else.
I know it's not my story, but I wanted Flemeth to have an agenda that dealt with gaining power for herself, and possibly conquering Thedas. I had this theory that she was an Old God, since she could shapeshift into a dragon and wanted Morrigan to preserve the soul of Urthemiel. But that's neither here nor there.
But Flemeth owes everything to Mythal. They are one and the same now. So their goals are one and the same. Well, unless she really is gone for good and Solas absorbed her completely, which I refuse to believe right now.
But Flemeth owes everything to Mythal. They are one and the same now. So their goals are one and the same.
And that's what disappoints me. The fact that Flemeth is basically just a pawn in a game of the elven gods. For two whole games, she's been built up as this mysterious, cryptic, and nearly unstoppable being. She was a legend, a terrifying entity that the Chasind told their children of to scare them into obedience. We were told that she was the Witch of the Wilds, a nightmare the Fereldans feared.
But nope! She's none of that. Just a vessel that does Mythal's bidding.
I believe she should have stood on her own two feet as an antagonist/anti-villain.
Hopefully she is still alive as you believe. Then she could do her own thing.
But Flemeth owes everything to Mythal. They are one and the same now. So their goals are one and the same. Well, unless she really is gone for good and Solas absorbed her completely, which I refuse to believe right now.
Sounds familiar.
At 1:31
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTqk5e2sJbA
And that's what disappoints me. The fact that Flemeth is basically just a pawn in a game of the elven gods. For two whole games, she's been built up as this mysterious, cryptic, and nearly unstoppable being. She was a legend, a terrifying entity that the Chasind told their children of to scare them into obedience. We were told that she was the Witch of the Wilds, a nightmare the Fereldans feared.
But nope! She's none of that. Just a vessel that does Mythal's bidding.
I believe she should have stood on her own two feet as an antagonist/anti-villain.
Hopefully she is still alive as you believe. Then she could do her own thing.
Again, your just saying this as someone who is just looking a a few trees in a greater forest. The story is about the forest, not the tree.
Again, your just saying this as someone who is just looking a a few trees in a greater forest. The story is about the forest, not the tree.
How does my wanting Flemeth to be her own person and an antagonist in her own right instead of a glorified servant equate to me not seeing the big picture?
How does my wanting Flemeth to be her own person and an antagonist in her own right instead of a glorified servant equate to me not seeing the big picture?
Because you're asking for things from character when we don't even full understand what's going on. We don't even know who the true cause of conflict is here and you already starting to want to label characters into roles.
Because you're asking for things from character when we don't even full understand what's going on. We don't even know who the true cause of conflict is here and you already starting to want to label characters into roles.
Fair enough. I will slightly change my statement then. Based on what we currently know, I believe that the potential of Flemeth's character has been misused and anti climatic. Judging from what we saw in her scenes in Inquisition, she is just a servant despite all the build up over two games that she was something incredible, with self serving (as in not doing things for someone else's benefit) and catastrophic motives we wouldn't be able to fathom.
However, even though I don't know what the true conflict is yet, I still feel that I can judge her as a character based on what we've seen. Her characterization and her role in the plot are two different things.
Why does Flemeth need to be an antagonist anyway? That just guarantees another death.
Fair enough. I will slightly change my statement then. Based on what we currently know, I believe that the potential of Flemeth's character has been misused and anti climatic. Judging from what we saw in her scenes in Inquisition, she is just a servant despite all the build up over two games that she was something incredible, with self serving (as in not doing things for someone else's benefit) and catastrophic motives we wouldn't be able to fathom.
However, even though I don't know what the true conflict is yet, I still feel that I can judge her as a character based on what we've seen. Her characterization and her role in the plot are two different things.
We don't even know what the end game is to say she was missed used. We don't know enough to say she's self serving ever from what we know from dao and da2. She ruthless and she does what ever she need to to get to her goal....But we never knew her goal. Your just guessing from shadows.
Why does Flemeth need to be an antagonist anyway? That just guarantees another death.
Bingo. We don't even understand her to call her a threat.
Why does Flemeth need to be an antagonist anyway? That just guarantees another death.
Not necessarily. Loghain was the antagonist for Origins, and you didn't have to kill him. It just depends on how Bioware writes it.
Bingo. We don't even understand her to call her a threat.
Think about everything you know about Flemeth. The legends, the horror stories Morrigan tells you about her childhood, the fact that she talks about revenge in her recent cameo. Do you really think she has good intentions? I love Flemeth, but I've seen her as a future threat since day one. There's no way she couldn't be.
Think about everything you know about Flemeth. The legends, the horror stories Morrigan tells you about her childhood, the fact that she talks about revenge in her recent cameo. Do you really think she has good intentions? I love Flemeth, but I've seen her as a future threat since day one. There's no way she couldn't be.
Legends get warped. And with Morrigan it was just to make her stronger even though it was a cruel way to do it. And I don't remember her taking about revenge before dai. Nothing does not really state bad intentions. It's mostly just jumping at shadows.
We don't even know what the end game is to say she was missed used.
Regardless of the end game/goal, she is still the servant of Mythal. Unless that is proven otherwise in future games, that is what she is. And to me that takes away from her character.
We don't know enough to say she's self serving ever from what we know from dao and da2.
C'mon now. In DAO and DAII Flemeth was nothing if not self serving. She murdered her daughters and stole their bodies to perserve herself (and apparently Mythal as well 
) and deceived Hawke into preserving her life. If you need more proof, look at Morrigan's character in DAO. She is the product of Flemeth's teachings, and Morrigan is all about self preservation and survival of the fittest. Where would she get this mentality if not from her mother? Flemeth raised her to be that way, for the Maker's sake. Why would she teach her daughter ways that she herself did not practice?
Your just guessing from shadows.
I am speculating based on the material Bioware has given us so far. I am judging her character as she has been presented to us by Bioware so far. That is not guessing from shadows. That is me making the best of what I have, which is just as much as anyone who isn't a Bioware employee has.
Legends get warped.
You serious? You really think the legends are fake? The Dalish know of her, fear her, and respect her, a human of all things. As do the Chasind. They wouldn't fear her if they didn't have a reason to. Legends don't come out of thin air. There's a little bit of truth to all of them.
And with Morrigan it was just to make her stronger even though it was a cruel way to do it.
Yeah, so she could steal her body when she became an adult. And regardless, when is child abuse ever justified? It doesn't matter what her motivations were. What matters is that her treatment of Morrigan is more proof that she is not to be trusted.
And I don't remember her taking about revenge before dai. Nothing does not really state bad intentions. It's mostly just jumping at shadows.
I don't have an exact quote, but she tells Morrigan and Quizzy that she wants to get revenge for Mythal. Revenge is usually not a good thing. Most of the time it involves murder, or the suffering of lots of people. Tell me how that's not a bad intention.
Nothing does not really state bad intentions. It's mostly just jumping at shadows.
She saved Alistair and the Warden only because she wanted one of them to impregnate her daughter with an Old God soul. She wanted to steal Morrigan's body, which is something that she has done several times before to her previous daughters. And if we want to count what happens in the comics, she wants to awaken ancient evil dragons and steal their power. Now we find out that she is the vessel of an angry elven god that wants revenge. What about that sounds good to you? How can she not have bad intentions?
I don't expect you to agree with me. Hell I like that you don't, it makes for a good debate. 
All I ask is that you try to see where I'm coming from.
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