96 réponses à ce sujet

[KaiserShep]

I don't get how being a servant of Mythal takes away from her character. From what I gathered in Origins, she used to be an ordinary woman who went to a demon spirit in the first place.

[leaguer of one]

Regardless of the end game/goal, she is still the servant of Mythal. Unless that is proven otherwise in future games, that is what she is. And to me that takes away from her character.

 

 

C'mon now. In DAO and DAII Flemeth was nothing if not self serving. She murdered her daughters and stole their bodies to perserve herself (and apparently Mythal as well ) and deceived Hawke into preserving her life. If you need more proof, look at Morrigan's character in DAO. She is the product of Flemeth's teachings, and Morrigan is all about self preservation and survival of the fittest. Where would she get this mentality if not from her mother? Flemeth raised her to be that way, for the Maker's sake. Why would she teach her daughter ways that she herself did not practice?

 

 

 

I am speculating based on the material Bioware has given us so far. I am judging her character as she has been presented to us by Bioware so far. That is not guessing from shadows. That is me making the best of what I have, which is just as much as anyone who isn't a Bioware employee has.

 

 

You serious? You really think the legends are fake? The Dalish know of her, fear her, and respect her, a human of all things. As do the Chasind. They wouldn't fear her if they didn't have a reason too. Legends don't come out of thin air. There's a little bit of truth to all of them.

 

 

 

Yeah, so she could steal her body when she became an adult. And regardless, when is child abuse ever justified? It doesn't matter what her motivations were. What matters is that her treatment of Morrigan is more proof that she is not to be trusted.

 

 

 

I don't have an exact quote, but she tells Morrigan and Quizzy that she wants to get revenge for Mythal. Revenge is usually not a good thing. I usually involves murder or the suffering of lots of people. Tell me how that's not a bad intention.

 

 

 

She saved Alistair and the Warden only because she wanted one of them to impregnate her daughter with an Old God soul. She wanted to steal Morrigan's body, which is something that she has done several times before to her previous daughters. And if we want to count what happens in the comics, she wants to awaken ancient evil dragons and steal their power. Now we find out that she is the vessel of an angry elven god that wants revenge. What about that sounds good to you? How can she not have bad intentions?

 

I don't expect you to agree with me. Hell I like that you don't, it makes for a good debate.   All I ask is that you try to see where I'm coming from.

1. We don't know the end game so we can't say it does.

2.Explain Yavana

3.BW only gave use rumors, legends and speculation and the plot show it can't always be trusted.

4.You talking about the dalish who don't even get there own legend right. Also, ruthless does not equal evil.

5.You don't train someone to be a survivalist to steal their body. And Yavana points out the Morrigan missed understood what was going on.

6. That's the only time we know about that and that's after we learn she's Mythal's pawn.

7.I never said she was maniputive. And as Yavana points out, it was a miss understanding with the body control issue.

[Zetheria Tabris]

3.BW only gave use rumors, legends and speculation and the plot show it can't always be trusted.

4.You talking about the dalish who don't even get there own legend right. Also, ruthless does not equal evil.

 

BW didn't say that every single legend or codex page was untrue or can't be trusted. We just need to be careful on who writes the codex pages, as they could be biased or misinformed. As for the Dalish, I'll give you that one. But the Chasind also have legends about Flemeth, and they've lived amongst her for centuries. Do you seriously think they're wrong?

 

Also, did I say she was evil? Since when did being untrustworthy and not having good intentions = evil?

[AtreiyaN7]

You were - I wasn't.

[Lukas Trevelyan]

Flemeth's cameo was more than satisfying. Her reveal was actually quite awesome and makes perfect sense given her history. Also I'm quite sure she's not just dead yet, I'm really excited for her and Solas' arc to unfold. 

[CronoDragoon]

Is there actually a Flemeth anymore? I got the impression from the reveal that we were always talking to Mythal if anyone. More likely a fused version of the two.

 

I thought the reveal was fantastic. They tied in a plot point with Inquisition (drinking from the Well) in such an organic way with the reveal; it was a great "show, don't tell", moment. Plus, the entire conversation between her and Morrigan with an OGB import was riveting. It was one of the rare moments in games where I really had no idea what was going to happen.

[Shechinah]

We do not know enough of the union, in my opinion, to say that everything we attributed to Flemeth was in actuality Mythal. Flemeth is likely a powerful woman of magic and wit in her own right. 

 

(to CronoDragoon) My guess is that it is either one of those things are unexplainable to someone who has not experienced it or that Flemeth has some of Mythal's magic, memories and it is perhaps a better balanced version of Anders with Justice. She is still Flemeth, she is just Flemeth plus one.

 

That and it allows me to imaging Flemeth bickering with Mythal while Morrigan thinks she's just being as nutty as the chestnut stew. Imaging the conversations they'd have raising Morrigan.

[Br3admax]

Not necessarily. Loghain was the antagonist for Origins, and you didn't have to kill him. It just depends on how Bioware writes it.

Loghain isn't an elf god abomination. Besides, letting him live was a punishment. Letting Flemeth live wouldn't be.

[Zetheria Tabris]

Loghain isn't an elf god abomination. Besides, letting him live was a punishment. Letting Flemeth live wouldn't be.

 

I don't think that matters. There was an option to spare the Architect, and he was an original darkspawn that started the Fifth Blight. Besides, Flemeth doesn't appear to be that anymore, she gave that part of herself to Solas. It's possible that if she's still alive (which I'm hoping she is) she could be a secondary antagonist, or possibly an anti villain that could aid us with Solas. There might be a choice to spare her. Just like there was a choice to kill or spare the Architect.

[Br3admax]

Except the Architect wasn't an antagonist. He was actively trying to ally with the Wardens. The fact that you can kill something does not make it an antagonist.

[leaguer of one]

Except the Architect wasn't an antagonist. He was actively trying to ally with the Wardens. The fact that you can kill something does not make it an antagonist.

Actually, the Architect is an antagonist. You can just resolve the issue with him with out fighting.

[Shechinah]

The Architect situation was a very precarious situation as both outcomes had heavy risks and unpredictable consequences: Self-aware Darkspawn is a difficult issue because of how they come to be, their morality and what they might do as a thinking force and it only takes one Blight to cause horrific destruction and death, not to mention its spread.

 

The Architect was an antagonist in his methods and in that he believed he was doing the right thing but lacked the ability to see that giving awareness to a Broodmother, a creature whose living existence is that of High-Octane Nightmare Fuel, would have the results it did. He is an antagonist, a well-being antagonist but an antagonists nonetheless.

[leaguer of one]

BW didn't say that every single legend or codex page was untrue or can't be trusted. We just need to be careful on who writes the codex pages, as they could be biased or misinformed. As for the Dalish, I'll give you that one. But the Chasind also have legends about Flemeth, and they've lived amongst her for centuries. Do you seriously think they're wrong?

 

Also, did I say she was evil? Since when did being untrustworthy and not having good intentions = evil?

Sure they did not but we still have to take it with a grain of salt  regardless until the truth about it is stated. And the Chasine hardly understand her. You missed the point that she has more then one daughter alive.

[Shechinah]

(to leaguer of one) You are referring to Yavana from the "Dragon Age: The Silent Grove" comic, right?

[Qun00]

Just look how she aged..
.

She was such a milf in DA2.

Is there actually a Flemeth anymore? I got the impression from the reveal that we were always talking to Mythal if anyone. More likely a fused version of the two.
 
I thought the reveal was fantastic. They tied in a plot point with Inquisition (drinking from the Well) in such an organic way with the reveal; it was a great "show, don't tell", moment. Plus, the entire conversation between her and Morrigan with an OGB import was riveting. It was one of the rare moments in games where I really had no idea what was going to happen.

Flemeth is merely carrying Mythal's energy.

They aren't anymore fused than, let's say...

[Shechinah]

(to Qun00) If you listen closely during the scenes, you can hear Mythal sputtering because she keeps getting Flemeth's hair in her mouth. She wishes it was that kind of fusing because then she could demand Flemeth cut her hair.

[leaguer of one]

(to leaguer of one) You are referring to Yavana from the "Dragon Age: The Silent Grove" comic, right?

Yep...

[Zetheria Tabris]

Except the Architect wasn't an antagonist. He was actively trying to ally with the Wardens. The fact that you can kill something does not make it an antagonist.

 

The Architect caused multiple obstacles in the storyline in Awakening, and caused the Fifth Blight. His actions definitely makes him an antagonist, especially for a Grey Warden protagonist. The Mother is the main one, but he is one as well.

[Moirin]

It was funny actually, I had just said something to my husband about it being weird that I hadn't run into Flemeth in the game yet, and then I got to the part where you do run into her literally right after.

 

I wish she was the Main Villain instead of corny ...I really wanted a Game centered around her . 

 

I'm still holding out hope she might be in a future game. I have a feeling "Flemeth" is not down for the count, I think she is simply tricking Solas into doing something he believes he needs to do but in reality is just something "Flemeth" needs him to do to get her revenge. I mean, who goes on a rant about swearing to get vengeance and then lets themselves get killed?

[DarkKnightHolmes]

I'm glad they let her die. After Witch Hunt, it felt like her story and character was going no where.

[Qun00]

It was funny actually, I had just said something to my husband about it being weird that I hadn't run into Flemeth in the game yet, and then I got to the part where you do run into her literally right after.
 

 
I'm still holding out hope she might be in a future game. I have a feeling "Flemeth" is not down for the count, I think she is simply tricking Solas into doing something he believes he needs to do but in reality is just something "Flemeth" needs him to do to get her revenge. I mean, who goes on a rant about swearing to get vengeance and then lets themselves get killed?

In any case, Solas definitely will be a returning character.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 I was disappointed. In my eyes, she was reduced to little more than an abomination, what with how she ranted about fulfilling the goals of her spirit.

 

I thought she was aiming for some lofty ideals and would bring about something world-shaking to Thedas. Something like, I dunno, the time-magic.

 

As it is, Corypheus has more interesting motivations than her.

[Rekkampum]

It was a highlight for me. I loved seeing her appear, especially in relation to her significance plotwise.

[Zetheria Tabris]

And the Chasine hardly understand her. You missed the point that she has more then one daughter alive.

 

The Chasind would know if she took any of their children and devoured/murdered them. They've been her neighbors for centuries. Plus I remember a scene in The Stolen Throne where she had men hanging from vines, or something to that effect. I think we have enough proof that Flemeth is close enough to how the Chasind see her. And what about Yavana? Flemeth could have spared her to handle the dragon situation. Doesn't mean she didn't take her other daughters' bodies. Yavana may have believed it was a misunderstanding in Morrigan's case because her situation with Flemeth was different.

[warblewobble]

The only thing that bothered me was that the reconciliation between Morrigan and Flemeth seemed a bit too pat. After coming across as a villainous, cackling hag in previous games Flemeth is suddenly all, "Oh, child. You were never in any real danger from me. I'd never make you do anything against your will blah blah blah." I get the feeling that this is intended to be 100% truthful and it just feels like revisionism to me.