30 réponses à ce sujet

[actionhero112]

1. Exploring the world isn't meaningful in any way.

 

 

a. There is nothing rewarding about collecting 19919919 shards or completing easy puzzles. In origins there were a few puzzles, but most of the time they had some meaningful payout or were used as a way to advance the story through narrative. Examples being the Stone Prisoner DLC where upon completing a puzzle I had to choose whether to let a girl get possessed or not or the Trials of Andraste that I had to complete to get the ashes. These were obstacles to my goal.

 

Shards and Astariums however, are meaningless time wasting exercises. Because they're not important to my current objective or the story in general. There is a reason that I beat this game seven times before I got the achievement for collecting a shard.

 

It's a little disrespectful to your audience that you think collecting bs shards is in any way entertaining whatsoever to us. 

 

b. Rewards you receive are worthless. Every single armor or weapon you get is outclassed by a schematic and your crafting system. Why am I spending all this time doing quests if I'm not rewarded for it meaningfully and the quests in general consist of “go kill this unimportant thing” or “go collect x amount of this.” Origins had it's level of crappy quests too, but at least it had meaningful rewards and I had the option to tell the game to go f*** itself if I didn't want to do them.

 

For example I don't do the quests in Lothering because I care about the faceless towns people. I do them to get the sweet oathkeeper. That is a meaningful reward that I use in the game. The best part is that I don't have to do those quests at all, I can immediately leave lothering if I feel like it.

 

In Inquisition, I have a bs power level which you raise with these stupid fetch quests. It angers me that you're forcing me to complete this boring content. Imagine that you had to complete a certain amount of chanter's board quests before advancing the story in Origins. I'd have told the game to go to hell and I wouldn't have 2k hours in it. That's how I feel about the bs quests in this game.

 

It's not that fetch quests exist in this game, it's a combination of the fact that I'm not rewarded for completing them (either in equipment or character interaction) and that I have to do a number of them to advance the story.

 

Solution: Reward me for exploring in your world through impact on the story and actual quest rewards not outclassed by chest rng items or merchant items.

 

Speaking of RNG, which isn't part of the original premise for this post, but I'll explain why I hate it too. 

 

2. RNG

 

Whoever had the great idea of having chest RNG in a single player game, my liver hates you, because one factor remained the same through 8 playthroughs. I drank every time I grinded chests. And I ground chests a lot.

 

See I get why chest RNG exists. In a subscription based model, it's a way of keeping the gamer playing your content by lengthening the time it takes to get an item you want. This means they spend more time playing your game and you get more money. In a single player game usually it's either meant to specialize a playthrough through unique variable (like the Binding of Isaac) or to provide meaning to repeating fun content (Borderlands 2)

 

Inquisition does none of these things. You are not getting more money by screwing me out of gear. I am not specializing my playthrough in a meaningful way. I am not repeating fun content by reloading quicksaves and traveling to and from Skyhold. The entire point of a game like borderlands is killing things with guns. From the time I've spent grinding chests you'd think this was a chest opening simulator. And not the fun surgeon kind.

 

Let's make a strawman: Wah wah, you don't have to reload chests.

I do if I want the best gear. And I want the best gear in an RPG. Shocking concept. 

 

Solution: Make the best items in the game have either a guaranteed drop from certain bosses (oh wow and if you could do it in a way that encouraged me to explore your maps  wouldn't that be nifty) or a reward for doing quests. Like a normal RPG.

 

And that's it.  

 

TL;DR 

I don't like the chest RNG because chest reloading is not fun or interesting. I don't like shards because they only exist to lengthen game time, and I don't like stupid fetch quests which I'm forced to do if I'm not receiving a meaningful reward through narrative or items. 

[Abyss108]

Well, I had fun with it all!

 

Whilst you have some good points, I'll point out you don't have to do all that stuff. The game throws more than enough power at you. I had about 500 left over all the end of the game!

[AlexiaRevan]

I admit , the loot in DAI is the crappiest ever . The drop are crappy...ya get little for grinding so much . 

[Ieldra]

Playing in this world should be its own reward, OP. I agree, though, that the loot system isn't exactly motivating. These days, I often keep chests and enemies unlooted because the RNG combined with the two seconds I have to wait for the looting animation to play makes for an unsatisfactory cost/benefit ratio.

[MrSunrock]

You do get good rewarded for colecting the shards. If you go to the forbiden oaisis there is a old tempel that you need to use those shards to ulock the doors. Inside you can find quite good loot and you get permantly resistance to all different magic elements for the inquisitor (the player made char). And to open the last door in that temple you need to get all shards. The Astrarium puzzels are a bit too easy I most admit though exept for 1 of them. The one on the storm cost pensula in the center west of the map if I remember right.  Tock me 4-5 tries to get that one right. But most loot you find is on a random loot table. If you save the game before open a chest you will see you will find different loot each time. But not all loot is random. The rewards for the Astrarum puzzles are always the same and some other quest related stuff.

 

However if we compare how mush this game reward exploration compared to any other game it's totally OK. Sure this game is more sandbox explore style then the other DA games as there map designs was very mush or rails. Could they have done better? Sure... but thats true for every single game that has or will be released. But I compared to the other two DA games I found exploring in this game allot more fun as the maps was allot biger and more 3D. DA:O and DA:2 map designs make it hard to miss finding every single hiden colectable. Not that its hard to find anything in DA:I either but at least you need to pay attention and have to go off the beaten path to find stuff.

 

PS: Funny to see people want stuff in this game that allot of the complains was about in DA2. Guess your damned if you do and damned if you don't.

[Sylvius the Mad]

a. There is nothing rewarding about collecting 19919919 shards or completing easy puzzles. In origins there were a few puzzles, but most of the time they had some meaningful payout or were used as a way to advance the story through narrative. Examples being the Stone Prisoner DLC where upon completing a puzzle I had to choose whether to let a girl get possessed or not or the Trials of Andraste that I had to complete to get the ashes. These were obstacles to my goal.

Shards and Astariums however, are meaningless time wasting exercises. Because they're not important to my current objective or the story in general. There is a reason that I beat this game seven times before I got the achievement for collecting a shard.

The puzzles in DAI are not good. There's only one interesting puzzle in the whole game as far as I can tell, and there's little content behind it.

The Astaria, in particular, were far too simple.

DAO handled puzzles much better. You're right about that.

Let's make a strawman: Wah wah, you don't have to reload chests.
I do if I want the best gear. And I want the best gear in an RPG. Shocking concept.

This one is entirely your own fault. The RNG (which I really like - I enjoy random loot) changes what loot is available in the game world. But you're metagaming your definition of "best loot' to include the best of what can exist in the game world, rather than the best of what actually does.

You don't like RNG loot, that's fine. But your attempt to justify your subjective preference fails horribly.

For example I don't do the quests in Lothering because I care about the faceless towns people. I do them to get the sweet oathkeeper.

Again, metagaming. You'll get no sympathy from me.

[CenturyCrow]

I agree that the loot system doesn't work well. But it's quite common now to have a variety of 'monetary' systems in games. In MMO's often monetary (reward) system gets added just to slow the game down.

 

SHARDS are faux money system for a few items - would have been better if the shards/oculara were tied directly into the tranquil story somehow or as a means to reverse a tranquil. (see Codex entry on Shards for more details) a lot of the shards were in awkward places to get–okay in a game designed for platform jumping

 

CRAFTING is another monetary system; the game is quite dependent on farming for crafting and almost immediately each new area offers a 'geological survey' to suck up the materials and as soon as you fill the geological survey, it punishes you with another one.

 

CRAFTED ITEMS have very little value when you sell them–unlike a few other games, you can't disassemble or convert them; only sell them for a pittance or destroy them 

 

The whole RNG drop system - be useful if you could disassemble or convert useless/unwanted items into materials or something of use - or if the drops were targeted for your level 

 

Why isn't there some reward system for having played through the game once where you gain more money for the next play through? 

 

There's nothing wrong with making games difficult but I shouldn't be fighting the game just to play it. Help me enjoy playing it.

[Nefla]

Playing in this world should be its own reward, OP. I agree, though, that the loot system isn't exactly motivating. These days, I often keep chests and enemies unlooted because the RNG combined with the two seconds I have to wait for the looting animation to play makes for an unsatisfactory cost/benefit ratio.

Do you mean that looking at the beautiful but empty world should be entertainment enough? It's not.

[Elhanan]

* One gains XP for discovering landmarks.

* Much is gained by finding hidden caverns, ruins, tombs.

* Astrariums offer some good treasures; a favored bow among them. Shards allow for magical bonuses, and does have an interesting story attached.

* Found loot and treasures are good enough for my Companions; only utilize Crafting for the Inquisitor.

* Etc.

But the real reward for me fpr exploration is discovery, and terrain tactics. Being able to hit from above, at distance, use of cover, scale behind the enemy, etc is a great bonus for myself; not as available in the prior games.

[happy_daiz]

I'm sorry you chose to make it boring and unsatisfying for yourself. 

[LPain]

I do often wonder (In particular when playing qunari) about the reasoning behind Arishok- headgear granted in the lightning room of the temple: at the time when you likely get it, your game is practically over already (last shards are seen through the ocularum by the "hardest" dragons in the game i.e during the quest you likely do the last). Seeing that you cannot craft qunari vitaars, in particular when Bull gets his vitaar in his personal quest, it is likely that Arishok's vitaar would go to qunari Inquisitor. Why the game gives the only purple vitaar to the main character this late in game?

[actionhero112]

 

PS: Funny to see people want stuff in this game that allot of the complains was about in DA2. Guess your damned if you do and damned if you don't.

 

Wow it's like players exist as individuals and have things like opinions. What a revolutionary concept that gamers aren't this amorphous blob that always agrees on everything. 

 

That argument is profoundly ignorant. It suggests that improving games is a waste of time because someone will always be unhappy.

 

Um no. 

[Zobert]

My favorite puzzle is still the "Kitty" one. 

[Lady Mutare]

Why would the ARishok's helmet be in the Oasis anyway?  That never made sense.  So perhaps adding a story as to why it is there as the prize might be helpful.

[Dutch]

Astrarium puzzles also provide randomized loot. In my first playthrough, the loot for the astrarium puzzle for the hinterlands was a unique bow and in my second playthrough it was a crappy rare dagger.

[CenturyCrow]

If DA:I was allowed to have mods, one of the first ones might have been the auto-collection of all chards to save the hassle. Click–done. Now open the doors.

 

Missed Opportunity. A mission so a Qunari (or other inquisitor) get's to learn how to paint their face with poison and create a vitaar.  How about being able to do it at the Black Emporium? I mean it's just toxic makeup, right? A little bit of poison, some herbs and done.

[Maconbar]

Who in their right mind completes seven playthroughs of a game they don't enjoy?

[actionhero112]

Who in their right mind completes seven playthroughs of a game they don't enjoy?

Didn't say I didn't enjoy the game, said I had problems with how the game rewards me for exploring it in its entirety through in game rewards which ideally should be added narrative and meaningful items. 

 

Don't present it like I don't enjoy the game, I do. I enjoy playing with characters that are dynamic and are actors independent of the protagonist. I enjoy stories that evolve beyond the simple "save the princess" or a revenge plotline. 

 

There are, however, mechanics in the game that I think can be improved immensely over their current state, which include the power mechanic, shards, chest rng, and fetch quests without beneficial items. 

 

These are things I don't enjoy and would like to see changed. 

[Rawgrim]

The stuff we craft should be worth something too. We get about 1 coin or something for a top tier item if we craft it ourselves and try to sell it. But we have to pay a fortune for stuff that isn't even half as good.

[Darkly Tranquil]

Agree very much on the loot drops. Crafted gear should never be more powerful than what drops from the toughest bosses; killing the hardest foes should always offer the best rewards, that's Game Mechanics 101. Crafted gear should be a fallback for when you get bad RNG on your drops.

[Koneko Koji]

I agree with Rawgrim - it's ridiculous that selling the component items is better value than selling a crafted piece, especially when it's far superior to items that I've looted / bought.

 

I also find the mosaics to be a let down - so much time to collect the pieces (and in some cases its bugged so you CAN'T collect all the pieces) and all you get is them up on your wall (with no option to interact with them to zoom in and have a good look) - aside from some xp, the wall display and a brief chat with a dwarf, collecting them is pointless - I was so let down when we didn't get a cut scene which shows them complete, in detail and with a good 'codex' style explanation of what they are and represent.

 

I don't bother with reloading the chests since I craft most (if not all) of my weapons and armour, and have yet to find a pre-created piece that trumps what I can make.

 

I also dislike the sheer amount of power left at the end of the game - it feels like if I can collect that much (sometimes in excess of 500 points left over), then there really ought to be a use for it!

[Saphiron123]

You do get good rewarded for colecting the shards. If you go to the forbiden oaisis there is a old tempel that you need to use those shards to ulock the doors. Inside you can find quite good loot and you get permantly resistance to all different magic elements for the inquisitor (the player made char). And to open the last door in that temple you need to get all shards. The Astrarium puzzels are a bit too easy I most admit though exept for 1 of them. The one on the storm cost pensula in the center west of the map if I remember right. Tock me 4-5 tries to get that one right. But most loot you find is on a random loot table. If you save the game before open a chest you will see you will find different loot each time. But not all loot is random. The rewards for the Astrarum puzzles are always the same and some other quest related stuff.

However if we compare how mush this game reward exploration compared to any other game it's totally OK. Sure this game is more sandbox explore style then the other DA games as there map designs was very mush or rails. Could they have done better? Sure... but thats true for every single game that has or will be released. But I compared to the other two DA games I found exploring in this game allot more fun as the maps was allot biger and more 3D. DA:O and DA:2 map designs make it hard to miss finding every single hiden colectable. Not that its hard to find anything in DA:I either but at least you need to pay attention and have to go off the beaten path to find stuff.

PS: Funny to see people want stuff in this game that allot of the complains was about in DA2. Guess your damned if you do and damned if you don't.

The temple sucked... All that to fight a pride demon??? Where's the dialogue or the story? 100+ shards and there wasn't even any meaningful story involved?

I mean, yay, a pride demon... How exotic.

[turuzzusapatuttu]

I'm sorry you chose to make it boring and unsatisfying for yourself. 

 

[happy_daiz]

The temple sucked... All that to fight a pride demon??? Where's the dialogue or the story? 100+ shards and there wasn't even any meaningful story involved?

I mean, yay, a pride demon... How exotic.

 

I'll give you that one. Every time I get to that point, I wonder why there's no story. No point to explain why we did all of that.

 

And most importantly, why doesn't Solas say something about the dang temple being named Solasan? Solas. Solasan. 

[Koneko Koji]

I'll give you that one. Every time I get to that point, I wonder why there's no story. No point to explain why we did all of that.

 

And most importantly, why doesn't Solas say something about the dang temple being named Solasan? Solas. Solasan. 

 

I agree about the lack of story, but given that Solas means 'pride' I can see why he'd not want to explain - since it would look a bit suspicious to have to explain why his parents named him Pride!