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Is DAI supposed to be a Role-Playing Game ?


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#1
Perseus the Paladin

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Inspired by the excellent debate started by Regan Cousland and the many contributors that have added their thoughts, I would like to pose a simple question to a representative from Origins. “Does Origins consider Dragon Age Inquisition to be a Role-Playing Game”?

 

I ask because I’ve played RPG since the days the days of pen and paper. If the “powers that be” at Origin believe that DAI represents a role-playing game, they are very much mistaken.

 

There have been many excellent items in this forum - particular the long and excellent debate started by Regan_Cousland. The contributions make excellent reading (that is if anyone at Origins was actually interested in the views of its customers)

 

As other gamers have said, DAI is a failed attempt at combining two completely different types of game genre under one umbrella. Was DAI designed as a Role-playing game or was it actually released to appeal to Arcade Video Action fanatics.

 

I’ve now played DAI continually since December – many days with my teeth well and truly gritted while I play. It’s only sheer bloody determination that keeps me going. This Bioware Offering is repetitive, trivial, dull and boring. So damn and blast my pig-headedness !!

 

I am nearing the end of it now and am finding it hard to raise the enthusiasm to start what I believe will be the endgame. Unless I actual must, I think I’ll pass on the dozen nesting dragons and the Giant’s enclosure – it’s just too much like a hard slog.

 

Before anyone screams at me, DAI does score because if viewed purely as an Arcade Video Action game, the game is beautifully-designed. I have played many similar games and DAI is better than many. The scenery is excellent, the layout is excellent and the scale is excellent. If you like a game where your characters zoom around many colourful scenarios shooting at everything that moves and collecting everything that doesn’t move – DAI is bloody brilliant!!  No-one can argue with that.

 

Unfortunately if you are a RPG addict, DAI sucks!!  It is really awful.

 

Leaving aside the PC playing handicap where all action is controlled through the mouse and around 40 different keyboard keys, just look at the facts!

 

The 9 controlled characters are simply hideous – my view!! If you are having a passionate lesbian relationship with the foul-mouth oaf, Sara, that’s your problem!! The only companions where actions/dialogue has even raised a smile have been Cassandra and Dorian. Five of these NPC have irritated me so much that I have left them sunbathing in Skyhold for most of the time and unless I am absolutely forced to, they will stay there.

 

When I played DA Origins, I spent so much of the playing time laughing out loud at the amazingly witty comments being made by that brilliant band of lunatics. Every NPC character was made human by the designers. For example the bitchy banter between the 2 gay guys running the Denerim Smithy was priceless and these were mere incidental characters - but the designers used them for effect. Bloody brilliant!  A number of DAI storekeepers are not even named let alone given anything to say.  

 

I had to buy a new PC just so I could play Baldur’s Gate and first words I heard came from the landlord of the local tavern “My sheets are as clean as an elven arse!!”  Instantly, Baldur’s Gate had become a “real” place populated by real people.

 

In DAO, I cared what happened to Alistair, Zevran, Morrigan, Wynne and crew. They became my companions and I spent ages in conversation with them – a massive credit to the game design psychologists. It is this level of attention to detail that turns a so-so game into a great game.

 

Compare that to the DAI equivalent. Most of the NPC so-called banter is tedious and trivial. It generally only occurs when I am hammering away at the “V” key trying to find the hidden object (which naturally is 1500 meters away and at the top a cliff).

 

What is the point of filling the world with lots of people when most of them have absolutely no dialogue at all?  My party fought a hideous battle against Red Templar Juggernauts and the party of 3 Inquisition Solders caught up in the middle of the battle, not only failed to help but didn’t even inquire about our health after the battle was won.

 

Quests /Tasks: This is The Collector’s Heaven. How many tasks are anything but boring fillers of the fetch-and-carry variety? Collect 897 shards, 241 mosaic pieces, 10 green bottles of Thedas and all the pages of a notebook which unfortunately has been scattered across a landscape the size of Morocco. Really exciting stuff!

 

On my first time at the War Table I tried to make a sensible choice before selecting Leliana, Cullen or Josephine for a mission. Why did I bother? With almost no exceptions, the outcome and reward is the same whoever was chosen. This is also true in the selection of the 3 party members. Blurring the character types into just Warrior, Mage and Rogue is crazy.

 

Warfare in this game is automatic. There is little point in applying any thought or strategy into it (I know this will create howls of derision!!) There is no penalty for playing badly. OK, the Inquisitor was knocked out at the start of a battle, has lain on the ground throughout while the other 3 managed without him. Inquisitor then gets up – no problem. If that doesn’t work, reload and try again until you win. Easy and lazy! The action is frantically fast and when tackling a large opposition, many players will have absolutely no idea why so much damage was taken by a particular character.

 

The latest bug fix gives a Storage Chest with its capacity of holding “Hundreds of bloody items????” I used 2 Perks to increase the meagre carrying capacity from 50 to 90 – all because I could then carry rubbish around and later sell it.

 

The same fix didn’t bother to cure the inventory bug whereby Two-Handed Weapon Upgrades were listed as usable by One-Handed weapons (initially this confused the hell out of me). However the Undercroft has gained a table where the player can paint their armour Green. What the f**** !!!  This game is meant to be about a hero saving the universe not for someone who wants to look like Mickey the Martian.  Enough with the facepaint, hairstyles and kiss-kiss romances – this is a Role-Playing game or has Origins totally forgotten that?

 

The world that is inhabited by the player has to be believable. The game is supposed to be an alternate reality. What is the point of  finding Quarries and Logging Stands and crafting upgrades when afterwards Skyhold still resembles a ruined Norman castle? There is no point. It is just another time-filler.

 

Schematics to be used to craft your own kit is the certainly best aspect in a dull game – but collecting the hundreds of components to keep it up-to-date is a real drag.

 

Currently I hold around 160 different type of crafting component - some 7000 pieces of cloth, metal, herbs etc. Think about it! Transporting that vast quantity of components alone would require the party to be accompanied by a fleet of juggernauts. Notice, I haven’t even included all the weapons, armour and other junk. Therefore  why is the party permitted to carry just 8 tiny potions bottles between them? I am heartily sick of having to fast-track it back to camp to “top up” before the next assault.

 

Levelling: - I decided to let the program determine the levelling of all NPCs (on the grounds that it should know best how any NPC should develop). I though some sort of AI would kick-in. AI? What AI?  Whatever the view used, this lot won’t stay still for more than a second before they are again treading on the Inquisitor’s toes. They don’t seem to understand the phrase “Personal Space” at all. The Inquisitor stands on a wall while all the others feel obliged  to climb up the wall beside him, treading on his feet and sometimes knocking him down in the process! Its chaos! On occasions my Rogue Inquisitor has hurled himself through a doorway into the fray and been decked – all because the two fighters didn’t bother to follow him into the room ! What is the point of a team when three characters run around the fourth guy like headless chickens

 

 

Magic: - Again what magic? There are 3 mages. Not one of them can create a magic torch to bring proper illumination to a darkened cave or dungeon. Veil-light hardly counts. Consequently I’ve staggered through endless dark locations without even a cigarette lighter to help. If darkness wasn’t enough, on all the green locations the lead character disappears for 10 minutes into the bushes. Not for a” call of nature” I hasten to add, but because the trees have literally swallowed him up. “Was there something in there?”. “Who knows, I couldn’t see a bloody thing”.

 

Why can mages blast the hell out of 8 marauding wolves but are unable to knock a shard from the top of a ruined wall that is less than 3 meters high?

 

On the subject of shards. Do the designers really think it fun to spend 30 minutes halfway up a mountain trying to get to the summit before discovering there simply isn’t a path going further upwards on this side. You then have to descend and take a hike round the entire range of mountains to the other side and start again?

 

Who really enjoys attempting to climb ice-covered tree branches in the vague hope of being able to leap down on top of a snow-covered wall? Not one of these idiots NPC thought to bring a rope or a torch with them let alone climbing boots. Who put the sodding chest up there in the first place?

 

Amazing land Orlais!  One part of its desert has perpetual daylight and the adjacent area has perpetual night. Astrophysicists would find that fascinating! Bugger reality!

 

Even the Graphics are not beyond criticism. My Inquisitor will suddenly highlight his hair, apply lip-gloss and either his dentures start falling out or he has decided to eat his teeth. It’s weirdly awful.

 

Bioware died following the release of Dragon Age Origins. I read a release where Origins stated that after some less-than-adequate game releases they were back on track – but obviously not to make games - just to make money.

 

After 15 years of buying and loving every Bioware RPG game, this painful offering is the end. I simply cannot bring myself to buy another game from Origins. By both greed and stupidity, they have dismantled the RPG genre. The late lamented Gary Gygax must be spinning in his grave.


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#2
Abyss108

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Not sure if Troll? Half your comments don't even relate to your supposed point that Inquisition isn't an RPG? What do graphics have to do with that?

 

Assuming you are not - Inquisition is definitely a RPG. Been playing since the original Baldur's Gate and its just as good. 

 

Why do you keep referring to Bioware as "Origins"?


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#3
X Equestris

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This post was painful to read. Many of your points are shallow, and ignore those same "issues" in previous titles.
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#4
NextGenCowboy

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Your thoughts are all over the place. What does a character's appearance have to do with whether this is an RPG?

 

If you're very curious, first set a definition of RPG, then see if this, or any other game meets said criteria. That's the simplest way to tell, of course, everyone's going to have different definitions.

 

I would like to make one minor request, hopefully it will help you. If you don't enjoy the game, and have to grit your teeth while you play, then stop playing it. Life's too short to sped playing things you dislike.


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#5
Cyonan

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So it's that time of the week again that we have our debate on what the term "RPG" means I suppose.

 

Either way, your complaints about companions seem to be that you simply don't like their personality. I didn't care much for Zevran, but that's not the same thing as him being a poorly written character.

 

Quite a few complaints also can be applied to Dragon Age: Origins, as well. Hell, some of the complaints can be applied to games even further back than that.


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#6
Lilithor

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OP I disagree with most of your post but I agree that Inquisition is not RPG thus the like.


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#7
CronoDragoon

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You seem to think the company that made this game is called Origin, which tells me a lot about your powers of perception. As for the rest of your post...

 

Not one of them can create a magic torch to bring proper illumination to a darkened cave or dungeon. Veil-light hardly counts.

 

 

Yeah, this isn't worth it.


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#8
Suledin

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You seem to think the company that made this game is called Origin, which tells me a lot about your powers of perception.

Indeed. That's why...Let's jump to another thread. 

Btw, OP mistakes "Origins" with "Origin". It's just worthless reading. 



#9
Jawzzus

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No its a first person shooter.  Also I only read the thread title, because I'm not reading all of that


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#10
AlanC9

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So it's that time of the week again that we have our debate on what the term "RPG" means I suppose.


Made it all the way to Wednesday this time.
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#11
AlanC9

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Ye gods. I haven't seen an argument this poorly thought-out in months.
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#12
phantomrachie

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I don't understand - what does any of that have anything to do with DA:I being an RPG or not?

 

Many of those points could be made about DA:O, DA:2, Wasteland 2, a number of Final Fantasy games etc. 

 

So my question is - are you sure you like RPGs? are you sure you liked DA:O? Because considering many of the items on your list were in DA:O it seems like you didn't

 

Perhaps you could start again by defining what you think an RPG is and highlight what makes DA:I not an RPG and we could start the debate from there.


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#13
CronoDragoon

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Perhaps you could start again by defining what you think an RPG is and highlight what makes DA:I not an RPG and we could start the debate from there.

 

I suspect this would be fruitless as well. Posters like these are not interested in defining genres or games within them: they are interested in covering their subjective reaction to the game with some objective diagnosis. This is why when someone might list what an RPG is, they will always only choose those qualities of RPGs that the example does poorly, or only choose good qualities of RPGs such that separating DA: I from the genre automatically makes it a bad game. In a good faith debate, on the other hand, determining whether DA: I is an RPG or not would have nothing to do with whether it's a good game. Good faith debates like that don't happen in these forums, though.


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#14
frankf43

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I don't understand - what does any of that have anything to do with DA:I being an RPG or not?

 

Many of those points could be made about DA:O, DA:2, Wasteland 2, a number of Final Fantasy games etc. 

 

So my question is - are you sure you like RPGs? are you sure you liked DA:O? Because considering many of the items on your list were in DA:O it seems like you didn't

 

Perhaps you could start again by defining what you think an RPG is and highlight what makes DA:I not an RPG and we could start the debate from there.

 

No please the first post was bad enough reading through.



#15
cJohnOne

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I don't understand why there isn't AAA games made for the rpg market.  If you sell a million copies at 60 dollars wouldn't you have a profit of 30 million dollars?



#16
Abyss108

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I don't understand why there isn't AAA games made for the rpg market.  If you sell a million copies at 60 dollars wouldn't you have a profit of 30 million dollars?

 

Some games take a lot more than 60 million to make...


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#17
AlanC9

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Depends on what you consider the "RPG market" to be.

#18
CronoDragoon

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I don't understand why there isn't AAA games made for the rpg market.  If you sell a million copies at 60 dollars wouldn't you have a profit of 30 million dollars?

 

One inherent barrier is the expectation of length for RPGs. It's perfectly fine for Uncharted 4 to take 10-15 hours, whereas anything less than 40 for an RPG is considered short. Another is the size expectation for RPGs. Action games can be confined to corridors in which interaction with the environment can be easily controlled. RPGs are expected to have large zones with a lot of NPCs in them. Both of these things combined leads to a development timeframe that precludes thorough and effective quashing of bugs, meaning the game is almost guaranteed to be released needing many patches afterwards, which can also affect reception (just look at the reaction to Unity). Even so, RPGs need longer to develop (4-5 years) compared to, say, the new Call of Duty, which can be produced yearly. So the profit margin is much much less for a genre in which the degree of difficulty to actually make a functioning game is much much higher.

 

If you're a publisher, you might rightly ask why bother.


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#19
GreyWarden_Smith

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DA:I is an RPG just not a over-complex RPG and that isn't a bad thing either and doesn't make it a bad game by default IMO. Its streamlined and newcomer friendly which is expected due to it being a AAA game. AAA games lack huge innovation and risk tasking (most of the time) due to their cost of development.

 

I was annoyed at the removal of stat allocation but I have accepted and it doesn't bother me any-more. Side-Content is also an issue in the game too and lack of AI in companions are gripes of mine but I have enjoyed the game & I think Bioware can do better in future with these issues hopefully.

 

Diablo 3 isn't a complex RPG but I still enjoy playing to this day but I also enjoy more complex similar games like Path of Exile. but are both great ARPGs

 
If you want a more "Traditional" RPG s look into the indie scene for those types of games or Kick-started old school style RPG s like Pillar of Eternity. 

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#20
Farangbaa

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If you're a publisher, you might rightly ask why bother.


This. We should almost be thankful Bioware makes RPGs for us.

Almost, cause we gotta pay them for it ;)

Path of Exile.


That skill tree. I gasped the first time I saw it.
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#21
turuzzusapatuttu

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58396136.jpg


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#22
capn233

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It isn't a rocket propelled grenade, so it must be a role playing game.



#23
Lilithor

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It isn't a rocket propelled grenade, so it must be a role playing game.

That's actually an accurate deffinition of RPG these days. If it doesn't fit somewhere else it must be RPG. Even when it fits it is still called RPG sometimes. So, watch out, you may in fact play with a rocket propelled grenade labelled RPG.



#24
99DP1982

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while the points are bad I agree that DA:I is lacking in the RPG department. Even when I bought it at a discount price i regret it. It's so boring that I can't even complete it....



#25
phantomrachie

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I suspect this would be fruitless as well. Posters like these are not interested in defining genres or games within them: they are interested in covering their subjective reaction to the game with some objective diagnosis. This is why when someone might list what an RPG is, they will always only choose those qualities of RPGs that the example does poorly, or only choose good qualities of RPGs such that separating DA: I from the genre automatically makes it a bad game. In a good faith debate, on the other hand, determining whether DA: I is an RPG or not would have nothing to do with whether it's a good game. Good faith debates like that don't happen in these forums, though.

 

I wish I could give this more than one like. You are right. Some people debate like an RPG is the only type of good game, but I've played some terrible RPGs, they were definitely RPGs but just terrible.

 

while the points are bad I agree that DA:I is lacking in the RPG department. Even when I bought it at a discount price i regret it. It's so boring that I can't even complete it....

 

What areas do you feel are lacking?

 

It has a character who you can create from scratch, pick their gender, race, class and choose what they say.

It has a story that the character can impact.

It has an environment that the character can impact.

It has companions to talk to and to develop a connection with or not as you choose.

It's got a leveling system.

Lots of skills to choose from

You can equip a variety of weapons and armour  

It's got a crafting system.

It's got places to explore.

 

It has all the elements that most people seem to agree makes an RPG, now whether or not it does those things well, is of course up for debate.

 

I for one really enjoy DA:I, but whether or not you liked the game doesn't prevent it from being an RPG.

 

As I said, I've played some really terrible RPGs before but they were definitely RPGs, not good games but definitely RPGs.


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