No attribute points at leveling
All Final Fantasy games
Skyrim
All 3 Mass Effect games
All Zelda games
Lost Odyssey
Jade Empire (If I'm remembering correctly, its been awhile)
Baten Kaitos
Don't forget the IE games (except PS:T?). I suppose Skyrim might count as having attributes at level-up if HP, stamina, and mana count as attributes. Jade Empire is a bit weird too -- you have attributes, but they mostly just convert into HP, etc.
Voiced characters and visual storytelling are hardly negatives
as long as they don't come at a huge resource cost that cripples the range of possible distinct and unique story and character development routes.
as long as they don't come at a huge resource cost that cripples the range of possible distinct and unique story and character development routes.
Without them, we wouldn't have these games at all, and the number of story and character development possibilities would be zero.
That's alright then, because they don't.
(That's not to say that story and character are actually distinct from each other. Story is character and character is story, after all.)
Distinct was referring to the routes, not to character/story.
Distinct was referring to the routes, not to character/story.
Note that using "they" for a specific person of indeterminate gender doesn't have a long history; I figure it's likely that situation just didn't come up much until quite recently. My impression is that the current surge in this usage is being driven by people who reject the gender binary that's embedded in standard usage.
I find these discussions amusing because, in my area (Mid-Michigan), Singular They is now used almost universally when the third party's gender is uncertain. There's no agenda for me; I just do it without thinking about it.
I don't see the differences. In fact, I credit CRPG dialogue for teaching me much about dealing with people.The difficulty with your approach (perfectly analogising between RPG dialogue and IRL conversation) is that the two are mechanically dissimilar.
I find them very similar in that regard.You're not getting the same information in each scenarios
As is it IRL. The only difference is in who writes the options, but in both cases you choose among a finite list of options (IRL, that is the list of things you can say that has occurred to you).your universe of possible responses is limited
Rules of which I choose to be unaware while roleplaying (I'm not even sure I know what they are, to be honest).and there are clear and definite underlying rules governing conversation in the RPG that do not exist IRL.
I find it extremely confusing. I had to read the initial post several times to extract any meaning from it.I find these discussions amusing because, in my area (Mid-Michigan), Singular They is now used almost universally when the third party's gender is uncertain. There's no agenda for me; I just do it without thinking about it.
It's not a fault at all. It's a positive feature.And? This a fault of the game.... How?
I don't believe that's possible to do.Rules of which I choose to be unaware while roleplaying
CompartmentalIze. It's just like running a thought experiment.I don't believe that's possible to do.
Putting points in skills raises your stats and you get skill points every level.
CompartmentalIze. It's just like running a thought experiment.
Though, in this case, I'm not sure I know what those rules even are. Before the dialogue wheel, I'd never noticed, for example, that BioWare tended to put the diplomatic dialogue options first, allowing people to hit 1 repeatedly to advance. This is partly because the first dialogue option wasn't always diplomatic the way I play. I saw no pattern because there was no pattern if the player always inserts his own tone and delivery.
The thing is that even if you don't know the mind of the other characters, the approval system kind of betrays your tone on certain dialogue.
When you first get to Redcliffe you can call Alistair a royal bastard. You can intend this to be in the meanest tone you can think of, but no matter what he'll just go "Oh hey that's a good one!" as though you just made a joke. You can argue that he's just covering up being insulted, however in this case you gain approval with him for selecting that dialogue unlike seconds earlier where you lose approval for calling him an idiot.
It's pretty obvious that line is meant to be delivered in a sarcastic tone.
meaningless choices are meaningless
That's evidence only that he interpreted it as sarcasm. Just as you can't read his mind, he can't read yours.The thing is that even if you don't know the mind of the other characters, the approval system kind of betrays your tone on certain dialogue.
When you first get to Redcliffe you can call Alistair a royal bastard. You can intend this to be in the meanest tone you can think of, but no matter what he'll just go "Oh hey that's a good one!" as though you just made a joke. You can argue that he's just covering up being insulted, however in this case you gain approval with him for selecting that dialogue unlike seconds earlier where you lose approval for calling him an idiot.
It's pretty obvious that line is meant to be delivered in a sarcastic tone.
That's evidence only that he interpreted it as sarcasm. Just as you can't read his mind, he can't read yours.
Or he could be deluding himself.
Or maybe we just don't know Alistair as well as we think we do, and his approval isn't predictable.
Those explanations make my Occam's razor alarm go off.
i can't quite put my finger on why dragon age inquisition was a disappointment
it might be the high expectations they promoted,
it could be the dialogue wasn't good enough due to voice acting contstraints
but the reality was that it was the little things that made Origins good and so it was the little details which Inquisition fell short on.
Occam's razor doesn't tell us which explanations are more likely to be correct, just which are the best to test empirically.Those explanations make my Occam's razor alarm go off.
That's evidence only that he interpreted it as sarcasm. Just as you can't read his mind, he can't read yours.
Or he could be deluding himself.
Or maybe we just don't know Alistair as well as we think we do, and his approval isn't predictable.
Which seems really odd if your character has been a complete jerk up until then that he'd suddenly go "You know what, this time maybe he's joking!".
Under the Origins approval system, you'd need to assume that everybody with approval is either delusional or highly unpredictable which is just ridiculous.
1. This is partly why I dislike visible approval ratings.Which seems really odd if your character has been a complete jerk up until then that he'd suddenly go "You know what, this time maybe he's joking!".
Under the Origins approval system, you'd need to assume that everybody with approval is either delusional or highly unpredictable which is just ridiculous.
My intention with they wasn't meant to cause offense, I do it naturally and out of habit when I'm unsure of the gender of the person to whom I'm speaking. Heck, I do it when I'm talking to someone about their cat, and I don't know whether the cat's male or female.
So, my bad to Sylvius, I was going to PM him regarding it, but seeing as it came up in the thread again I figured it was worth a response.
As for an agenda, no I really don't have one, I just know that the internet and gaming isn't something that's of interest to only men. Generally speaking, most people are thankful, or at least indifferent, but I'm more than willing to acquiesce to Sylvius' wishes in this regard, I respect him, even I don't agree with him on many topics.
Also, blame the English language for its lack of singular gender neutral pronouns. They can be found in other languages. It's the same reason you'll see me use "one" in my post when speaking about someone of indeterminate gender in a past tense, even though it's considered overly formal.
Your reasons for saying DA:I is not an RPG make no sense to me. I could name 10 RPGs off the top of my head that had no attribute points to distribute when you level and more action based combat. (I disagree that DA:I has no tactics, you can be tactical in DA:I it is your choice whether or not to be tactical)
Attribute points are the trademark of any RPG that is trying to emulate the leveling system of old school Pen & Paper RPGs and I think it is weird that BioWare dropped them from the Dragon Age series after having them in the previous two games, but attribute points do not make an RPG.
In fact there are a number of Pen & Paper RPGs that have dropped them, are they now not RPGs?
Perhaps when you are at a PC you could elaborate.
Why would they not make sense? I´m calling it from personal preference. I see attributes as one of the corner stones of a rpg. The trend of dropping the attributes is just a symptom of this general dumping down of games since gamers these days are supposed to be so stupid that thinking can actually cause brain damage. More flash, more action, less reading and thinking. Go figure. The system worked, why change it? To be honest I have not played any tabletops without attributes so I don´t know how that works.
No attribute points at leveling
All Final Fantasy games, never played. Can´t say.
Skyrim, not a rpg for me.
All 3 Mass Effect games, not a rpg for me. Though ME1 was close.
All Zelda games, never played. Can´t say. Aren´t these more like mario jumpers?
Lost Odyssey, never played, Can´t say.
Jade Empire (If I'm remembering correctly, its been awhile), never played. Can´t say.
Baten Kaitos, never played. Can´t say.
More action based combat
Skyrim, like before.
Oblivion, like skyrim. Though I have it my library but haven´t taken the time to play it yet.
FF12 & FF 13, like before.
All 3 Mass Effect games, like before.
All Zelda games, like before.
Jade Empire, like before.
Alpha Protocol, never played. Can´t say.
Fallout 3, never played. Can´t say.
Fallout New Vegas, never played. Can´t say.
The Fable series., never played. Can´t say.
Sounds like you haven't played very many RPGs. Or rather, very many games that are generally considered to be RPGs, since I'm pretty sure you'd rule that a lot of things on your "not played" list aren't RPGs if you ever had played them,.
meaningless choices are meaningless
Obvious troll is obvious.
Why would they not make sense? I´m calling it from personal preference. I see attributes as one of the corner stones of a rpg. The trend of dropping the attributes is just a symptom of this general dumping down of games since gamers these days are supposed to be so stupid that thinking can actually cause brain damage. More flash, more action, less reading and thinking. Go figure. The system worked, why change it? To be honest I have not played any tabletops without attributes so I don´t know how that works.
No attribute points at leveling
All Final Fantasy games, never played. Can´t say.
Skyrim, not a rpg for me.
All 3 Mass Effect games, not a rpg for me. Though ME1 was close.
All Zelda games, never played. Can´t say. Aren´t these more like mario jumpers?
Lost Odyssey, never played, Can´t say.
Jade Empire (If I'm remembering correctly, its been awhile), never played. Can´t say.
Baten Kaitos, never played. Can´t say.
More action based combat
Skyrim, like before.
Oblivion, like skyrim. Though I have it my library but haven´t taken the time to play it yet.
FF12 & FF 13, like before.
All 3 Mass Effect games, like before.
All Zelda games, like before.
Jade Empire, like before.
Alpha Protocol, never played. Can´t say.
Fallout 3, never played. Can´t say.
Fallout New Vegas, never played. Can´t say.
The Fable series., never played. Can´t say.
So basically it boils down to "it's not an RPG unless I say it is; if I haven't played it, it's still probably not an RPG when I get around to it".
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