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[Koneko Koji]

It does seem that a lot of demons - especially the higher functioning ones like Desire and Pride - require some level of consent, and feed off the energies and thoughts of their hosts (otherwise it would make no sense to goad them into foolish acts or giving them the illusions of their desires).

Also - since the Darkspawn have essentially what is a hive mind, would the demon even be able to stay in control of a non-liberated Darkspawn? They would probably get ripped apart along the mental pathways, unable to settle in one body.

[o Ventus]

I don't think so. Darkspawn don't have souls, IIRC (which, if I remember correctly, is why Archdemons inhabit their bodies if they aren't killed by a Warden).

[Draining Dragon]

I suppose they can be. The taint shouldn't make it difficult. Demons can possess Wardens who also have the taint so I doubt the taint has anything to do with it at all.

Darkspawn, unlike the other races, are not driven by any "sin" like lust, greed, pride etcetera which I believe to be the thing that demons most crave.

I think it's more a case of Demons not wanting to possess Darkspawn as opposed to them not being able to possess them.

What about rage and hunger?

[leaguer of one]

Well they can at least posess blighted creatures since there are blighted werewovles in Awakening. And since werewolves are demons that posessed wolves I'd say yes they can possess darkspawn (they probably got infected after the posession but they are still posessing them anyways.) There are also some possessed wardens and Darkspawn corpses (for example the ogre beneath Vigils keep). If they could also posess living, Darkspawn that was born as Darkspawn I don't know.

But I'm with the crowd who says the demons probably just wouldn't want to posess them anyways. In terms of quality for a meatsuit a darkspawn would probably be the equivalent of a old, dirty, torn jacket of a homeless person on which a entire pack of dogs peed on. Alas no self-respecting demon would want to wear this cr*p.

Werewovles are not spirit possessed wolves. That's just a speculation.

[Caddius]

Werewovles are not spirit possessed wolves. That's just a speculation.

I seem to recall multiple Codex entries about how werewolves are usually wolves possessed by spirits of rage...

http://dragonage.wik...entry:_Werewolf

Do you have any grounds for calling it speculation?

[Eliastion]

I seem to recall multiple Codex entries about how werewolves are usually wolves possessed by spirits of rage...

http://dragonage.wik...entry:_Werewolf

Do you have any grounds for calling it speculation?

First of all, there are werewolves that are explicitly human. So they're not wolves, possessed or not. Then there are other legends about werewolves that paint them in different light, tales of werewolves as intelligent beings that can change shape (or are of wolven shape but intelligent as people) AND the whole Brecilen arc of DA:O is about werewolf curse that doesn't seem to have a single rage spirit involved - the only spirit there is Lady of the Forest who isn't even a spirit (as in: being from the Fade) but rather something akin to soul of the forest. And the result wasn't a "hybrid" as changed people were - Witherfang was a shapechanger with peaceful (Lady of the Forest) and battle (wolf) forms - it's disputable whether we could even call her a werewolf.

 

If there are indeed werewolves that are just possessed wolves, they're but one of possible origins of beings we would call "werewolves".

[Caddius]

First of all, there are werewolves that are explicitly human. So they're not wolves, possessed or not. Then there are other legends about werewolves that paint them in different light, tales of werewolves as intelligent beings that can change shape (or are of wolven shape but intelligent as people) AND the whole Brecilen arc of DA:O is about werewolf curse that doesn't seem to have a single rage spirit involved - the only spirit there is Lady of the Forest who isn't even a spirit (as in: being from the Fade) but rather something akin to soul of the forest. And the result wasn't a "hybrid" as changed people were - Witherfang was a shapechanger with peaceful (Lady of the Forest) and battle (wolf) forms - it's disputable whether we could even call her a werewolf.

If there are indeed werewolves that are indeed possessed wolves, they're but one of possible origins of beings we would call "werewolves".

I got the impression that the Lady of the Forest was a Fade spirit that acted as a genius loci for the Brecillian Forest, and was later forced into possessing the wolf Witherfang. I have no idea if Witherfang was anything more than a particularly fearsome wolf that the human tribes in the area feared and respected.

I wasn't rejecting the idea that there are werewolves with alternate origins, I was questioning the dismissal of some werewolves being wolves possessed by rage demons as speculation. As the blighted werewolves in question were in the Blackmarsh, where the Veil is particularly weak and popping out demons like candy, rage demons seem the likeliest suspect in that instance. *shrug*

The stories about Dane and his association with wolves is curious, as is the shift from the Alamarri association with wolves to their association with dogs, even with the werewolf problem. 

[leaguer of one]

I seem to recall multiple Codex entries about how werewolves are usually wolves possessed by spirits of rage...

http://dragonage.wik...entry:_Werewolf

Do you have any grounds for calling it speculation?

It says based on Fereldin lore, with in the codex. That's basically as rumor of a rumor.Any thing like that is just speculation like spirits being the children of the maker.

[Caddius]

It says based on Fereldin lore, with in the codex. That's basically as rumor of a rumor.Any thing like that is just speculation like spirits being the children of the maker.

Fair enough.

What's interesting in the Codex entry is the line, 'able to spread a curse to those they bite that would drive them mad with unthinking fury. When in this enraged state, a human host can likewise become possessed and be transformed into a feral, wolf-like beast.'

A rabies like disease that induces rage and acts as an open door for other rage demons would explain how it spreads, rather than the entirety of the werewolf disease being in the bite itself.

I'm still not clear on why the Lady had to be forced into Witherfang to create the Brecilian variant. Did the Lady provide the magical energy, and is irrelevant otherwise? Did it have to be her and Witherfang together? It seems like Zathrian had a specific ironic fate for the humans in mind, which brings up questions of his previous experience with curses and werewolves.

Of course, that's all speculation.

Whether Dryden was possessed before or after death, Anders proves that spirits can possess Grey Wardens. If the Blackmarsh werewolves are possessed by rage demons, then it's proven it's possible for the host to be tainted while the spirit is still possessing it. But darkspawn could be different by way of being soulless husks subservient to the Song. Anders and Justice can fall prey to Corypheus in Legacy. 

Taking this further, can Archdemons be possessed?  A Pride demon possessing Urthemiel for the thrill of the hunt?

[o Ventus]

Justice wasn't possessing Anders though, they were only inhabiting the same body. Even when Justice took over, Anders was still "there", just in the back seat.

[leaguer of one]

Fair enough.

What's interesting in the Codex entry is the line, 'able to spread a curse to those they bite that would drive them mad with unthinking fury. When in this enraged state, a human host can likewise become possessed and be transformed into a feral, wolf-like beast.'

A rabies like disease that induces rage and acts as an open door for other rage demons would explain how it spreads, rather than the entirety of the werewolf disease being in the bite itself.

I'm still not clear on why the Lady had to be forced into Witherfang to create the Brecilian variant. Did the Lady provide the magical energy, and is irrelevant otherwise? Did it have to be her and Witherfang together? It seems like Zathrian had a specific ironic fate for the humans in mind, which brings up questions of his previous experience with curses and werewolves.

Of course, that's all speculation.

Whether Dryden was possessed before or after death, Anders proves that spirits can possess Grey Wardens. If the Blackmarsh werewolves are possessed by rage demons, then it's proven it's possible for the host to be tainted while the spirit is still possessing it. But darkspawn could be different by way of being soulless husks subservient to the Song. Anders and Justice can fall prey to Corypheus in Legacy. 

Taking this further, can Archdemons be possessed?  A Pride demon possessing Urthemiel for the thrill of the hunt?

I  never said it was impossible. Just that it's unlikely.

[Caddius]

Justice wasn't possessing Anders though, they were only inhabiting the same body. Even when Justice took over, Anders was still "there", just in the back seat.

I'd argue that that is possession. Fiona is still there, albeit subdued, when she's possessed. Connor still has flashes. If he wasn't still there, he'd be impossible to save. The person accepts the deal, whether out of good intentions (Anders), desire for what the spirit can give (Flemeth), or being beaten into submission and trapped in nightmare (Fiona.)

Justice is a possessing spirit/demon that has a working relationship with Anders, in a more tragic version of Anduriel/Nicodemus, to use my obligatory Dresden Files reference for the day. When Anders experiences blackouts, that's Justice exerting more control.

Actually, Flemeth and Mythal are a much better analogue to Nicodemus and Anduriel. And Flemeth also seems to be possessed by Mythal.

[o Ventus]

I'd argue that that is possession. Fiona is still there, albeit subdued, when she's possessed. Connor still has flashes. If he wasn't still there, he'd be impossible to save. The person accepts the deal, whether out of good intentions (Anders), desire for what the spirit can give (Flemeth), or being beaten into submission and trapped in nightmare (Fiona.)

Justice is a possessing spirit/demon that has a working relationship with Anders, in a more tragic version of Anduriel/Nicodemus, to use my obligatory Dresden Files reference for the day. When Anders experiences blackouts, that's Justice exerting more control.

Actually, Flemeth and Mythal are a much better analogue to Nicodemus and Anduriel. And Flemeth also seems to be possessed by Mythal.

 

If inhabiting something qualifies as "possession", then I'm possessing my house right now.

[leaguer of one]

Justice wasn't possessing Anders though, they were only inhabiting the same body. Even when Justice took over, Anders was still "there", just in the back seat.

...Justice did possess Anders.

[Caddius]

If inhabiting something qualifies as "possession", then I'm possessing my house right now.

If you are literally part of the house's structure and can control its functions without the aid of buttons, sure.

How do you qualify possession, then?

I define it as the spirit joining with a physical shell, and exerting influence or control over the body. I'd consider Wynne, Flemeth, and Anders to all be examples of elegant possession, and Uldred's minions and Fiona's episode in the Deep Roads as an example of brute force possession.

[leaguer of one]

If inhabiting something qualifies as "possession", then I'm possessing my house right now.

Your house does not have a will of it's own. 

Also...

[Heimdall]

Your house does not have a will of it's own. 

But then... If darkspawn don't have a will of their own as soulless beings, then possessing your house is like possessing a Darkspawn!

:0

[fhs33721]

But then... If darkspawn don't have a will of their own as soulless beings, then possessing your house is like possessing a Darkspawn!

:0

Unless you can influnce your house with your mind alone (For example to force it to turn on the light in the bathroom without actually physically touching any light switches or uttering any loud, outspoken voice commands), no you aren't posessing your house.

A demon theoretically  hiking a ride in a Darkspawn and contolling it's every movement from within however would definitely count as posession even if the Darkspawn has no actual soul of it's  own.

[Xilizhra]

When Corypheus takes control of Anders in Legacy, it manifests as Justice attacking, which would seem to imply that spirits inhabiting a tainted body can be controlled by anything that can control taint. So even if a demon did possess a darkspawn, it'd still probably fall under an archdemon's control.

[leaguer of one]

When Corypheus takes control of Anders in Legacy, it manifests as Justice attacking, which would seem to imply that spirits inhabiting a tainted body can be controlled by anything that can control taint. So even if a demon did possess a darkspawn, it'd still probably fall under an archdemon's control.

That's a given with how Cory binds demons through out dai.

[Cobwebmaster]

In the DAO dlc Warden's Keep the old Warden mage states that the darkspawn taint is an anathema to demons. His experiments were based on alchemical induced formulae to increase the Grey Warden's power to so much more than just developing an internal radar to (a) the presence of Darkspawn, and ( slow the rate of the effect of the taint that forced Grey Wardens to descend into the deep roads and end their lives battling darskpawn. In reality the GWs are a death cult but one with an heroic purpose

So based on DA lore as I understand it, it is not possible for darkspawn to be possessed, but it is possible for them (with assistance from an artifact) to control spirits

[leaguer of one]

In the DAO dlc Warden's Keep the old Warden mage states that the darkspawn taint is an anathema to demons. His experiments were based on alchemical induced formulae to increase the Grey Warden's power to so much more than just developing an internal radar to (a) the presence of Darkspawn, and ( slow the rate of the effect of the taint that forced Grey Wardens to descend into the deep roads and end their lives battling darskpawn. In reality the GWs are a death cult but one with an heroic purpose

So based on DA lore as I understand it, it is not possible for darkspawn to be possessed, but it is possible for them (with assistance from an artifact) to control spirits

No that just means it's possible but unlikely.

[Cobwebmaster]

I follow your reasoning which is pretty much sophistry, and the debate is as Jack Vance would put it nocupatory. According to the mage and his notes ratified by many other mages' research Darkspawn are an anathema to Demons. Ergo it is perfectly reasonable to conclude that they cannot be possessed. Unless your reasoning is based on your subscription to the theory that it is possible for an elephant to prevent itself from falling from a clifftop by clinging to a daisy, then there is no argument other than a philosophical one.That being of course  based on the negative view, that because it hasn't been done, doesn't mean it can't be, and you believe that an attempt hasn't been made already more than once and failed

But why would a demon want to possess a darkspawn anyway? What benefit would it derive from it? As the link between demons and the possessed is the use of magic do any darkspawn have magic in DAI? 

 

[Eliastion]

I follow your reasoning which is pretty much sophistry, and the debate is as Jack Vance would put it nocupatory. According to the mage and his notes ratified by many other mages' research Darkspawn are an anathema to Demons. Ergo it is perfectly reasonable to conclude that they cannot be possessed. Unless your reasoning is based on your subscription to the theory that it is possible for an elephant to prevent itself from falling from a clifftop by clinging to a daisy, then there is no argument other than a philosophical one.That being of course  based on the negative view, that because it hasn't been done, doesn't mean it can't be, and you believe that an attempt hasn't been made already more than once and failed

But why would a demon want to possess a darkspawn anyway? What benefit would it derive from it? As the link between demons and the possessed is the use of magic do any darkspawn have magic in DAI? 

 

We have confirmed cases of possessed Wardens. This alone makes the idea of Taint preventing possession controversial to say the least.. 

[esper]

I might be misrembering, but wasn't there a possessed ogre or an ogre spirit in DA:A?

 

I was definitly under the impression that it was a question of 'won't' from the demons side instead of 'can't'.