125 réponses à ce sujet

[phantomrachie]

No TRUE Scotsman washes his kilt on a Friday!

 

             

 

That is all

[leaguer of one]

 

 

Not the same as actually appointing points and only Awakening has skills. I wouldn't call it heavily gear based because option are limited, you don't have that much gear.

 

Tactic Ogre also has no stat control in its original sense, you can only modify things by changing class and gear.

FE is all about gear being that gear is a resource. You may not effect your characters armor but you sure  can effect their attack.

[Lilithor]

From another thread:

My definition of RPG is: (Dragon Age Origins + DLC + Awakening Story, Characters, Locations, Setting, and everything else not in the following items) + (Final Fantasy Tactics War of the Lions Combat) + (DnD 3.5 Stats+Classes+PrestigeClasses+Races+ItemCreationEnchantment+Skills) + (The Sims 4 Character Creator)

If this thing existed it would be RPG for me =)

[phantomrachie]

From another thread:

My definition of RPG is: (Dragon Age Origins + DLC + Awakening Story, Characters, Locations, Setting, and everything else not in the following items) + (Final Fantasy Tactics War of the Lions Combat) + (DnD 3.5 Stats+Classes+PrestigeClasses+Races+ItemCreationEnchantment+Skills) + (The Sims 4 Character Creator)

If this thing existed it would be RPG for me =)

 

My reply to you on that same thread

 

So your definition of an RPG is a game that doesn't exist. Awesome - why are you here exactly? 

[DragonKingReborn]

A sure sign the devs and mods aren't following the forums that closely - a "what is an RPG" type thread doesn't get insta-locked.

 

'Tis truly a time of woe on the BSN.

[ThreeF]

FE is all about gear being that gear is a resource. You may not effect your characters armor but you sure  can effect their attack.

By the end of the game Frederick will always be a lousy unit in comparison no matter what you give him, because his stat growth is bad. This was always the case with the "upgraded at beginning" units in FE.

 

Btw, Awakening is very generous with money, upgrades and random encounter, extremely  generous.

 

 

At any rate the item affect stat mechanics exist, but there is very little control you can have on the overall stats.

[Darkly Tranquil]

Of course it s an RPG, it's daft to claim otherwise. I might not much care for many aspects of it (combat, lack of customisation), but it has the key elements of choice of character and branching player directed narrative that are central to the RPG experience.

If you want to start dissecting types of RPG, that's a whole other conversation. DAI is, by my reckoning, a whole different kind of RPG to DAO.

[leaguer of one]

By the end of the game Frederick will always be a lousy unit in comparison no matter what you give him, because his stat growth is bad. This was always the case with the "upgraded at beginning" units in FE.

 

Btw, Awakening is very generous with money and random encounter, extremely  generous.

 

 

At any rate the item affect stat mechanics exist, but there is very little control you can have on the overall stats.

I can say the same for Cat Sith for ff7 and  Edward for ff4. That doesn't make them not rpgs.

[ThreeF]

I can say the same for Cat Sith for ff7 and  Edward for ff4. That doesn't make them not rpgs.

Huh ? I'm not saying that FE is not RPG, my whole point was that despite not giving much control over stats it is an RPG.

[Lilithor]

My reply to you on that same thread

 

So your definition of an RPG is a game that doesn't exist. Awesome - why are you here exactly? 

Because I enjoy things that try to be RPG. I like it better why they try harder like Origins =)

[leaguer of one]

Huh ? I'm not saying that FE is not RPG, my whole point was that despite not giving much control over stats it is an RPG.

Or some character are given less control over their stats because the devs what story over gameplay for somethings.

[Cyonan]

A sure sign the devs and mods aren't following the forums that closely - a "what is an RPG" type thread doesn't get insta-locked.

 

'Tis truly a time of woe on the BSN.

 

One time in the ME3MP Forums we had a multi-page discussion about complete jibberish that to my knowledge never got locked.

 

We were literally just making up words, but acting like it was about ME3.

[leaguer of one]

Because I enjoy things that try to be RPG. I like it better why they try harder like Origins =)

Then  you don't know the difference between want an rpg is and what an rpg preference is.

What you list was not what the definition of what rpgs are but what you like to play. Too many times people who go on about what isn't or is an rpg miss that point.

[frankf43]

Is DA: I an RPG or not?

 

Yes.

[ThreeF]

Or some character are given less control over their stats because the devs what story over gameplay for somethings.

In case of ff7 and ff4? Probably, I never played those games.

 

In FE you always get more or less the same result with the units, by the end of the game the weaker units will be always the same and the strongest will be also always the same, even those in between will be in the same position. It's all about inner mechanic of "growth" and you have no control over that (except as you said by temporary adding a point or two to attack and defense with gears). Awakening allows a bit more customization with the skills and the children systems, these elements did not existed in previous games. Irrelevant, but I kind of like the GBA FE more than Awakening.

 

It's a game of different chess, so it's natural that the stats are restrictive.

 

(but at this point I'm not sure what were you getting at)

[ThirteenthJester13]

On the heels of the disaster of the other thread, I'd like to propose a thread wherein we actually discuss what an RPG is, and whether DA: I fits the criteria. I'd appreciate it if we could try and frame the discussion in a way wherein a necessary condition(s) for an RPG is listed, and an examination of whether DA: I fits the bill. It doesn't mean "here's something that's in a lot of RPGs and DAI sucks."

 

(Oh, and if you already have a sufficient set of conditions, go for it)

 

On the heels of my debate with SomeoneStoleMyName, I'd like to propose one condition in rough form so we can maybe refine it:

 

An RPG is a game that provides the framework to express different types of characters within the player-character.

 

The phrase "type" here is vague. What I want the phrase to mean is that through dialogue or action, the game provides different avenues of "progression" either through a conversation, quest, or otherwise. A game that only provides one way to proceed through a conversation (ie, no input from the player) AND one way to proceed through the quest/mission structure is not an RPG. The interesting part there is whether a game that provides one or the other is an RPG.

 

DA: I does both, in my opinion, whether it does them satisfactorily or not. Certainly there are multiple avenues of progressing through a conversation, in a way that allows you to consistently maintain a character. It also provides multiple avenues of completion through the content, though this usually takes the form of what kind of build you make, less so alternate ways to complete a quest than combat.

 

Suggestions?

IN the game of Thrones you win or you Die.

 

Role playing game. You simulate the roll of the player character whether you created it or perhas you create your own version of a predessgined already named and established character arctype or profile then thru actions and dialoge your story progresses nd the provided archtype ARCS/develops to a certain moral, emotional, circumstancial, and or consequential outcome at which, in conclusion you've defined that character Role. Building a fighting character model is NOT role playing unles the world is rich enough with other characters and choices to make or not make that you can imagine but even then its only an RPG by default as I think RPGs should be very character driven but your not the only person out in the world doing things .... but that's based on how good the RPG is or HOW deep it goes At the very base, you choose a path a b or c and develop a character thru these choices as you carve out, from a basic character outline, a deep multi layered character. The selection of a Class or Vocation and Race or if your already given one, still defines the word ROLE and you are playing the ROLE of an Inquisito. Nothing Should be linear in story, plot or character. But that, again is a comment with basis in a discussion "Whats a good RPG".

 

The Whats and RPG question is not hard to answer and needs no discussion. I think the real discussion is whats a GOOD role playing game. In a sense most games are ROle PLAYING GAMES as your a character in a role that you play. Now this role must be defined enough so your not just Jack the master o all trades, killing, martial arts and blowing up bad guys kill the villain action hero guy thing. No your Josef a lonely painter with a dark secret: Bloodlust. Your house has just been put under auction. What do you do. Massacre a the auction, hunt down the tax man, kill your neighbors and make yourself at home? And that's just the beginning of playing the role of a psychotic artist that hides his dark urges. I dot think games have had a game where you start with a face and then develop every aspect of character you can think of. In fact that might be called a CHARACTER DEVELOPING GAME or ROLE DEVELOPING GAME. Its hard to define anything really.

Its all relative. what the hell does it matter. Its obviously a RPG as you select a class. If you do nothing else but select a class and then hit the same button over and over again for 10 hours till you win its still role playing as that class you chose. Whats a good role playing game. One with more than Three classes or no classes at all just weapons and mechanics and dymics and schematics and romantics, antics and skills baby. You gotta be elite and have kills, know the lore you w***re,  Im a cyborg because my pc is 7000 dollars and it has 9 hundred gigawats of Michael J. Fox and and I think your console is a stupid box (its also a computer that just plays games or surfs the web its not really about hardware but software)

 

Was FF a role playing game? Absolutely even though you where given the role an the only choices you make are literal path choice and resource use as well as battle functions. Basic. Since then Morality, cause and effect, action and consequence, change and a number of elements have been added to the role plying mix and so far its hard to say if anyone has got it down patt. Someone needs to Take Bloodborne combat mechanics, and fne tune each one so that its deeper in more ways than two or three. Im talking a combat system hee you and another player could go head to head and not even hit each other until UH OH ur injured and missing an arm fighting with one hand Jaime Lannister whataya gonna do as the other guy turns up the heat? Give up, Try and get slaughtered becase this game has no health bar or health potions that work instantly. Battles are hard fought and if you shed blood you better not shed to much cuz you need it to live. and if you get sabbed in the back.... you dead or ateast paralyzed.

 

How uch control over the ROLE does the player have determines how basic or intricate and complex and RPG is. Are you pooping and peeing eating and sleeping all in set routines. Watching your character watch TV> Riding your horse from skyhold all the way to Val Royeau, catching a fever and dying because its a long way and medieval medicine may look like magic but its wasn't. I can whip up something liquid like call it a potion cuz I thru asprin and some Nyquil in thee pluss hydrogen peroxide antibiotics and anti bacterial ointment. Its a Health POTION.

[Heimdall]

Because I enjoy things that try to be RPG. I like it better why they try harder like Origins =)

I think the point being made here Lilithor is that RPG is a broad category, and what you specify is but one subtype, not the definition of the term.

[DragonKingReborn]

One time in the ME3MP Forums we had a multi-page discussion about complete jibberish that to my knowledge never got locked.

 

We were literally just making up words, but acting like it was about ME3.

 

There is usually a good deal of tolerance if people are being good-natured towards each other, but the 'what is an RPG' thing usually ends up being quite adversarial.  Allan, in particular, was very quick to shut them down in the past.  Maybe they've relaxed their opinion on the topic.

[SofaJockey]

A sure sign the devs and mods aren't following the forums that closely - a "what is an RPG" type thread doesn't get insta-locked.

 

'Tis truly a time of woe on the BSN.

 

Clearly the devs consider DAI is an RPG, hence it is on topic 

(I agree with that assessment, as to disagree would render most games considered RPG's not so. Reductio ad absurdum...)

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Yes, it is. It lets you make choices, it lets you pick armor and weapon to fit your play style, it lets you pick class, race, gender and talents. What more do you need to be classed as an RPG?

[DragonKingReborn]

Yes, it is. It lets you make choices, it lets you pick armor and weapon to fit your play style, it lets you pick class, race, gender and talents. What more do you need to be classed as an RPG?

Depending on who you're talking to, a great deal, apparently.  Hop over to the "PC Community Concerns" thread, if you're of a mind to see how specific some people can be when it comes to assigning the RPG tag to something.  Unless they're still roleplaying "Bioware as The Empire from Star Wars", of course.

 

Generally I think people tend to say, no it's not, when the game isn't what they were expecting it to be/allow as a whole.  i.e. I can't assign attribute points at level up???WTF??!  Not an RPG!!! (DA:I, The Witcher)

 

Or, I can't choose my characters race??!!!? WTF??! Not an RPG!! (DA2, The Witcher)

 

Or, I can't [insert random ability someone once had in a game that came on a tape drive here]!!??!  WTF!!!?? Not an RPG!!

 

Largely it's just a disappointment thing, I think.  I think DA:I unequivocally is an RPG.  As is The Witcher.  As is Batman: Arkham City.  As is Monkey Island.  They're all vastly different games and they're all RPGs.  The problem comes when people try to drop the "fantasy" or "action" or "classical" or "tactical" or "adventure" prefix from the RPG term.

[CronoDragoon]

"JRPGs" (back in the day we just called them "RPGs") are fundamentally different in their approach to player characters. Even games like Suikoden and Chrono Trigger, who had silent protagonists, didn't give dialogue options to the player (they may have once or twice, but not in a dedicated sense...sorry it's been a long time!). Back when I was playing Japanese RPGs in the 90s and early 2000s, they were understood to be RPGs. I think these days that is a bit controversial, at least in some circles. "RPG" has become quite the nebulous concept. I wonder if it's time for an update. 

 

In any event, as it stands now, I would say: an RPG is a type of game that comes in a variety of flavors, but basically consists of a narrative focus oriented around menu based combat. 

 

Edited for clarity. 

 

I've been thinking about this in relation to the OP but, is combat necessary in an RPG? This may actually be what the Tell Tale GoT is, but conceptually I'd be on board with a politically-based game that largely revolves around using dialogue, alliances and betrayals and the ability to define a blank slate PC's personality to some extent as an RPG. I think I zeroed in on builds because historically that is what D&D and RPGs have focused on, but I'm not sure it's necessary for an RPG to have such.

[leaguer of one]

I've been thinking about this in relation to the OP but, is combat necessary in an RPG? This may actually be what the Tell Tale GoT is, but conceptually I'd be on board with a politically-based game that largely revolves around using dialogue, alliances and betrayals and the ability to define a blank slate PC's personality to some extent as an RPG. I think I zeroed in on builds because historically that is what D&D and RPGs have focused on, but I'm not sure it's necessary for an RPG to have such.

Planescape says no. Combat is not needed. Hell, even Harvest moon says no it's not needed.

[AlanC9]

From another thread:
My definition of RPG is: (Dragon Age Origins + DLC + Awakening Story, Characters, Locations, Setting, and everything else not in the following items) + (Final Fantasy Tactics War of the Lions Combat) + (DnD 3.5 Stats+Classes+PrestigeClasses+Races+ItemCreationEnchantment+Skills) + (The Sims 4 Character Creator)
If this thing existed it would be RPG for me =)

Well, it's nifty that you've got a Platonic ideal of an RPG. But how does this help determine whether any actual game is an RPG or not? Unless the point is that no RPGs ever have existed or ever will exist?

[VahnXIII]

DA:I is an RPG. Check out www.rpgamer.com for verification.