Forgive.me.if this has been done already but I've searched google and haven't found the same theory and just made an account here a bit ago to talk about it
First I didn't actually finish my second play through with kieren as an old god, but read that he feels lonely after flemeth does whatever she did
Based on the dragon age 4 trailer, I think she split his soul in two and took a piece with her since his soul is split for the next dragon age. This could cause a feeling of loneliness I think
I also think flemeth or mythal may be vivial, the daughter if andraste
my theory on what flemeth did to kieren
Débuté par
rin_ritchie
, mars 13 2015 12:39
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#2
Posté 13 mars 2015 - 12:55
leaguer of one
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Let's not jump to conclusions yet.
Vivial died many years ago.She had daughters who went on toe have more daughters. Flemeth was born years after tracking them became impossible. Added it would not be Mythal being Vivial it would be Vivial being Mythal in true.(Which I don't believe any ways)
Also, Flemeth herself made it a point that Mythal came to her, not it being passed down. It's like Anders and Justice. Also, Kieren clearly holding the soul of the archdemon in dao.
You're making some big assumptions.
- EmperorKarino aime ceci
#3
Posté 13 mars 2015 - 02:22
rin_ritchie
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I had no idea theories were considered assumptions now
I wish I could remember that codex on vivial off the top of my head, but I'm not discounting the theory either just yet
But what of the rest of the theory? The vivial bit was more of an after thought. What of kieren?
I wish I could remember that codex on vivial off the top of my head, but I'm not discounting the theory either just yet
But what of the rest of the theory? The vivial bit was more of an after thought. What of kieren?
#4
Posté 13 mars 2015 - 02:54
rin_ritchie
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Codex text
There are many misconceptions regarding Andraste's bloodline, monsieur. This is due, I should think, to a general lack of knowledge regarding Andraste's mortal life. Understandable, considering the many cults that arose following her death. Every one sought to claim Our Lady for their own culture or claimed some aspect of her existence was a lie—all of them complete fabrications. My order has done considerable research to ascertain the truth.
We all know Andraste and the Betrayer raised five children. The eldest three were sons: Isorath, Evrion, and Verald. The rule of what was once southern Tevinter was split among them. Isorath was given the west, what is today Orlais. Evrion was given the east, what is today the Free Marches. Verald was given the central Planasene, what is today Nevarra. What became of these men and their legacies is the stuff of legend, and the majority of claimants to Andraste's bloodline link back to one of them. None of the three sons, however, were born of Andraste. They were born of the Betrayer's concubine, Gilivhan. People choose to overlook the fact that Andraste came from the Alamarri tribesmen and that they were barbarians, not the Fereldans we know today. They were savage warriors who took concubines in addition to their wives, and because Andraste was thought to be too weak to bear children, the Betrayer took Gilivhan to provide him heirs. Which she did. After her death, the sons were raised as Andraste's own.
Later in life, Andraste proved predictions wrong and had two daughters by the Betrayer: Ebris and Vivial. They were kept out of the public eye and not permitted to marry, though both had consorts. Ebris had but one child, Alli Vemar, who perished on a voyage to Denerim—less than a month after her mother fell to plague, and without children of her own. The younger daughter, Vivial, was more controversial: a strong-headed woman who defied her family by falling in love with a mage of Tevinter, Regulan. Vivial and Regulan went into self-imposed exile as the Exalted March began, and into hiding following Andraste's betrayal and murder.
What became of Vivial and her descendants is largely unknown for one primary reason: she had only daughters. Each of those daughters only had daughters. They married into other families and took other names, and in the chaos of the Second Blight, all traces of survivors were lost. Andraste's true bloodline, if it exists, lies solely in the descendants of Vivial, and the suspicion of my order is that it produces only daughters. Thus the claims of your young man, monsieurs, are highly suspect.
There are many misconceptions regarding Andraste's bloodline, monsieur. This is due, I should think, to a general lack of knowledge regarding Andraste's mortal life. Understandable, considering the many cults that arose following her death. Every one sought to claim Our Lady for their own culture or claimed some aspect of her existence was a lie—all of them complete fabrications. My order has done considerable research to ascertain the truth.
We all know Andraste and the Betrayer raised five children. The eldest three were sons: Isorath, Evrion, and Verald. The rule of what was once southern Tevinter was split among them. Isorath was given the west, what is today Orlais. Evrion was given the east, what is today the Free Marches. Verald was given the central Planasene, what is today Nevarra. What became of these men and their legacies is the stuff of legend, and the majority of claimants to Andraste's bloodline link back to one of them. None of the three sons, however, were born of Andraste. They were born of the Betrayer's concubine, Gilivhan. People choose to overlook the fact that Andraste came from the Alamarri tribesmen and that they were barbarians, not the Fereldans we know today. They were savage warriors who took concubines in addition to their wives, and because Andraste was thought to be too weak to bear children, the Betrayer took Gilivhan to provide him heirs. Which she did. After her death, the sons were raised as Andraste's own.
Later in life, Andraste proved predictions wrong and had two daughters by the Betrayer: Ebris and Vivial. They were kept out of the public eye and not permitted to marry, though both had consorts. Ebris had but one child, Alli Vemar, who perished on a voyage to Denerim—less than a month after her mother fell to plague, and without children of her own. The younger daughter, Vivial, was more controversial: a strong-headed woman who defied her family by falling in love with a mage of Tevinter, Regulan. Vivial and Regulan went into self-imposed exile as the Exalted March began, and into hiding following Andraste's betrayal and murder.
What became of Vivial and her descendants is largely unknown for one primary reason: she had only daughters. Each of those daughters only had daughters. They married into other families and took other names, and in the chaos of the Second Blight, all traces of survivors were lost. Andraste's true bloodline, if it exists, lies solely in the descendants of Vivial, and the suspicion of my order is that it produces only daughters. Thus the claims of your young man, monsieurs, are highly suspect.
#5
Posté 13 mars 2015 - 02:57
rin_ritchie
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Compare everything there to myths surrounding the elven gods. Betrayals, etc..
Andraste and vivials stories sound eerily similar
Andraste and vivials stories sound eerily similar
#7
Posté 13 mars 2015 - 02:59
p3891
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Dragon age 4 trailer? you are basing your theory on a fan made video?
#8
Posté 13 mars 2015 - 03:06
Joe25
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She proved that it is more fun to be a grandmother than a mother.
#9
Posté 13 mars 2015 - 03:07
rin_ritchie
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Well I guess the kieren theory isn't necessarily true then. I thought it was odd to release a trailer so soon
#10
Posté 13 mars 2015 - 03:07
TK514
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She took the old dragon soul out of him. I thought that was obvious.
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#11
Posté 13 mars 2015 - 03:08
rin_ritchie
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If she took the dragon soul out wouldn't that leave him empty?
I was under the impression that the soul was the only soul in the child
I was under the impression that the soul was the only soul in the child
#12
Posté 13 mars 2015 - 03:38
p3891
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If she took the dragon soul out wouldn't that leave him empty?
I was under the impression that the soul was the only soul in the child
Kieran is just like Flemeth, Anders, Wynne all were carrying a spirit within themselves I think when he said he felt lonely it was more likely because the old god soul was no longer part of him
- EmperorKarino aime ceci
#13
Posté 13 mars 2015 - 04:26
leaguer of one
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I had no idea theories were considered assumptions now
I wish I could remember that codex on vivial off the top of my head, but I'm not discounting the theory either just yet
But what of the rest of the theory? The vivial bit was more of an after thought. What of kieren?
They're considered assumption when it's presented without any support. 
Theories have backing but the lack of push to prove it.
A theory would be saying back in DA2 that Flemeth in Mythal because Mythal's altar was used to revive her. A theory would be saying darkspawn are linked to the elves of old due to record in the arbor wild of the god of old fighting the abyss the corrupts minds.
#14
Posté 13 mars 2015 - 04:28
leaguer of one
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If she took the dragon soul out wouldn't that leave him empty?
I was under the impression that the soul was the only soul in the child
No. It's not his soul. He just powered by it, not it in general.
#16
Posté 13 mars 2015 - 05:12
rin_ritchie
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No I gave my reasons for my theories. I don't know why you're being deliberately argumentative.
They're considered assumption when it's presented without any support.
Theories have backing but the lack of push to prove it.
A theory would be saying back in DA2 that Flemeth in Mythal because Mythal's altar was used to revive her. A theory would be saying darkspawn are linked to the elves of old due to record in the arbor wild of the god of old fighting the abyss the corrupts minds.
#18
Posté 13 mars 2015 - 05:13
rin_ritchie
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Kieran is just like Flemeth, Anders, Wynne all were carrying a spirit within themselves I think when he said he felt lonely it was more likely because the old god soul was no longer part of him
Oh okay. I guess the problem is that I didn't play part 2 yet. I thought I had read enough on it to get the general idea but I missed out on important revelations.
Guess I'll just have to play it. I've heard negative opinions about it so I hope it's good
#19
Posté 13 mars 2015 - 05:51
Eliastion
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No. It's not his soul. He just powered by it, not it in general.
Well, I can see where a different thought could come from, until DA:I I assumed that the souls had merged (that being the purpose of using just-conceived child), but I agree that DA:I makes it doubtful to say the least. Taking away the soul would make the child soulless and from a soulless child I would expect a drastic shift in behavior (likely into something akin Tranquility). Kieran seems to remain himself, so it's a safe assumption that he does (and always did) have a soul of his own, completely seperate from OGB.
