65 réponses à ce sujet

[Lilithor]

Ok. Simple question: Why/how some people see Solas and/or Flemeth as evil people?

Sometimes in topic people talk as if they were going to be the next villains or something like that. If anything for me the villains are us, Solas and Flemeth, aka Fen'Harel and Mythal, seem too amazingly wise and good people with A LOT OF PATIENCE to deal with the childish us, aka mortal people. Even if they have some huge secret plan, which I believe they do, they obviously do that because it would be pointless to try to explain to mortals what/why they are doing. They reason with millenia in their minds while we are shortspanned to decades, at best. Some changes they propose may change the world in a way we disagree and that's fine, and very speculative, but even then I just can't see them as evil.

For me both Flemeth and Solas are two beings full of love and doing what they think is best, and what they think is best seem a lot wiser than what mortals think.

 

PS.: Flemeth is probably dead and gone but it could be the other way around or something temporary or a merge... so I talked about them both as if they were both alive.

[Andraste_Reborn]

For me both Flemeth and Solas are two beings full of love and doing what they think is best, and what they think is best seem a lot wiser than what mortals think.

 

What Solas thought best when he gave the orb to Corypheus ended with the sky getting ripped open and hundreds - maybe thousands - of people getting killed as a result. Forgive me if I don't assume that his judgement is flawless.

 

That said, I don't think that Solas and/or Flemeth are evil. I'm not prepared to declare that they're good and wise, either, going on current evidence. I don't think we can really make a call either way until we actually know what their plan is. Not many people in the Dragon Age universe are all good or all bad, anyway, and I doubt that Flemeth and Solas are exceptions.

[Poledo]

What Solas thought best when he gave the orb to Corypheus ended with the sky getting ripped open and hundreds - maybe thousands - of people getting killed as a result. Forgive me if I don't assume that his judgement is flawless.

 

That said, I don't think that Solas and/or Flemeth are evil. I'm not prepared to declare that they're good and wise, either, going on current evidence. I don't think we can really make a call either way until we actually know what their plan is. Not many people in the Dragon Age universe are all good or all bad, anyway, and I doubt that Flemeth and Solas are exceptions.

 

The explosion only occured because our inky stumbled in. Otherwise it seems like Justinia was to be the only sacrifice. Even then I doubt Solas knew of that - he just knew Cory had the means to use it to open the fade.

 

Solas is evil by ignorance and pride moreso than outright being evil. He is so caught up with correcting the past mistakes that he is blinded to the consequences of his actions. His dedication to assisting after the explosion speaks to his nature though - and I think that goes beyond just getting his orb back.

[KainD]

What people don't agree with they call evil. Not everyone like Flemeth/Solas actions. The end.

[Baelyn]

The explosion only occured because our inky stumbled in. Otherwise it seems like Justinia was to be the only sacrifice. Even then I doubt Solas knew of that - he just knew Cory had the means to use it to open the fade.

 

I dont think this is true. The explosion was the result of opening up the Veil. The Inquisitor was simply in the way when the power of the anchor was unleashed and they intercepted it from Corypheus.

[Lilithor]

What people don't agree with they call evil. Not everyone like Flemeth/Solas actions. The end.

With that I can agree. But I'm not like that... usually... I hate Vivienne but I wouldn't call her evil, same for Blackwall and Sten.

[Lilithor]

If I've learnt one thing in this life, and this is something that BioWare clearly understand as well -- is that morals, "good/evil" etc, are subjective things, and exist only in the minds of people.

 

Now, as people are different, this is what causes conflict and "clashing" -- on the first side of the spectrum we have the "acceptable morals" that are drummed into us from birth. (Socially accepted) as opposed to "personal morals" which is, the **** that we perceive and gather for ourselves, through life experience.

 

More often than not, our perception of morals is contrary to "popular belief".

 

E.g let's take a look at Morrigan. Now on the surface, she's an "evil witch" stereotype. Go a little deeper though, and you'll realise that there is so much more to her. This is only my personal opinion but I can completely understand and relate to her "Love is fleeting, power is forever" concept. It makes so much sense... I found myself blown away, and nodding. I also applied some of her ideas to my own life, and find them much more preferable to the moronic antics of feeble-minded society.

 

Now on the opposite side of the spectrum we have "Origins Leliana".. naive chantry girl, who means well, but is borderline delusional/insane due to her obsession with religion and the Maker. Her belief that she was "chosen" drove her to do what is considered "benevolant" actions..

 

Now if you, or anybody else held such powers as Flemeth and Solas, you would be "out there".. and have very different viewpoints/persepectives than the average Joe. This would drive you to do things that would be considered questionable, perhaps immoral, to the average Joe. Solas has a connection to spirits, and the fade. He wishes to unite flesh and bone living with this spiritual fade existence.. he believes he is doing the "right" thing.. where as others... not so much. This is what lead to the shitstorm with Corypheus, after all.

 

Anyhow, I applaud BioWare for creating characters that aren't cardboard cutout "good and evil" stereotypes. It's much more realistic, when the lines are blurred. It is up to each player/individual to decide for themselves who is "good" and "bad".. or rather, who they love and who they hate.

It is kind of my topic intention... I'd say it was for balancing people that understand hiding secrets and lying as evil things. Also to make people think about the different perspective they have. As much as my post seem the opposite I totally agree with you.

[Lilithor]

 

Not not at all... I understood what the intention was. My post was me agreeing... and elaborating, from my own perspective.

 

Sorry if it came out d-bag-like.

I can't forgive you without a proper gif

[Poledo]

I dont think this is true. The explosion was the result of opening up the Veil. The Inquisitor was simply in the way when the power of the anchor was unleashed and they intercepted it from Corypheus.

 

It wouldn't be Cory's first trip into the fade. He had a plan and it required blood sacrifice. That sacrifice never happened (Divine only dies in the fade later helping Inky escape) so it seems plausible that could have been part of the cause - the ritual was not completed correctly. Cory only made it through because of his bond with the dragon - even the wardens he had with him would have been nuked. I don't think that was his intention.

 

I mean I could be completely wrong but that's how I see it.

[Lilithor]

Rain makes me vulnerable

[sandalisthemaker]

Perhaps not evil, but they have done very questionable things, and they are both incredibly flawed though.

 

Solas giving his orb to Corypheus.... there are just no words for that blunder.

 

Mythal was flawed. She and all the rest of the ancient elven leaders seemed like power-hungry tyrants.  

 

(Flemeth is flawless and fabulous, though IMO.) 

[BabyPuncher]

Nobody really has a clue as to what's actually going on, so none of this is more than guessing.

[Lilithor]

Perhaps not evil, but they have done very questionable things, and they are both incredibly flawed though.

 

Solas giving his orb to Corypheus.... there are just no words for that blunder.

 

Mythal was flawed. She and all the rest of the ancient elven leaders seemed like power-hungry tyrants.  

 

(Flemeth is flawless and fabulous, though IMO.) 

I never saw her as power hungry. If she wanted power she could have a lot more than she already have, people are clueless about her. If legends are true she has been making heroes and legends for centuries now and she seems very humble about it.

[Seraphim24]

<Snip>

 

Nice!

[TK514]

I don't think Solas is evil.  I think he is desperate and stupid.

 

I don't think Flemeth is evil.  I think she is obsessed.

[KaiserShep]

So far, I've never seen Flemeth do anything but either be conveniently helpful or irritatingly cryptic.

[Personette]

If they managed to make a game with Flemeth or Solas as an antagonist, they might have a story as good as Origins on their hands.

 

When I first played Origins I didn't pay TONS of attention to the backstory or question that my PC Warden was the Good Guy doing the Right Thing, even when I was definitely doing Kinda Rotten Things like putting a kinslaying jerk on the throne of Orzammar. Had zero qualms about killing Loghain. 

 

But I've done a total 180 about Loghain. You really can flip the whole Origins story around, follow it from his point of view & have everything he does *make sense*. And all of a sudden instead of the story of a young hero rising to power, you have a really moving tragedy on your hands. His story is interesting in its own right & also stands as a really chilling counterpoint to the cheery upward trajectory of the PC.

 

It's a cliche at this point that every villain is the hero of his own story, but I can't think of many instances where I've seen it done better. The more I think about it, the more I think that Origins is about Loghain & Maric as much as it's about the Wardens. 

 

All of which is to say: Flemeth is awesome and Solas is... well, I never liked him much, but he's on the right track to being a good antagonist: powerful and desperate, with just enough righteousness to collect a following. Antagonists that you can like and care about & still have to oppose make for good conflict. 

[elrofrost]

Solas needs stabbing right in the face. Go back further - he started it all? Probably had a hand in locking up the old gods, like Dumat, who in-turned conned Cory into breaking into the Golden City - and the rest is history.

 

If anyone or rather, anything, needs to die it's Solas.

 

As to what happened with their "joining". I think Solas might finally be dead (hopefully, he needs to suffer a while though, IMHO). Or They both joined into something (a spirit) more powerful and are now gonna go on some "elves must rule the world" crusade.

[Ash Wind]

Solas is a bad, indignant pile of judgemental a-hole who cowers behind the simple fact that the great evil of DAI was empowered by... wait for it... himself.

 

Flemeth was an anti-hero. Solas gave Corywaste the orb that resulted in death and destruction. Flemeth saved the treaties, saved the grey wardens, and offered them assistance in the form of Morrigan.

 

If anyone should have killed/absorbed/defeated the other, Flemeth should have eaten that pathetic reject-of-the-vulcan-science-academy. I hope that the final scene is a red-herring... in which Flemeth actually ate Solas' soul and assumed his form.

 

Solas should stay asleep and die.

[Solas]

Solas isn't evil, the whole point is that what he's doing is all in shades of gray..

[Lilithor]

Solas isn't evil, the whole point is that what he's doing is all in shades of gray..

50 of them.