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[KainD]

But they are my morals, I have pleasure in that xD
There are lots of joys, one of them is guilty, in which I too take pleasure. I'm complex. I'm kind of like a demon, I feed from emotions like lust, fear, rage, hatred, joy, sadness, and so on. Everything goes, either good or bad.

 

Yeah.. no, I don't get it. Feeling joy from sadness. But hey, everything goes. 

[Medhia_Nox]

@JohnWayne:  The problem comes in when we ask "What is an elven god on Thedas?"

 

There have been many hints that "gods" are just very powerful mortals who have reached apotheosis.  If that is the case - then I would argue that their actions (more specifically Solas') leans toward evil as megalomania is widely considered a negative.

[Lilithor]

Yeah.. no, I don't get it. Feeling joy from sadness. But hey, everything goes. 

It is not joy from sadness it is more like satisfaction. Like eating when you are hungry. That's why I used the word feed. Not everybody is satisfied with good emotions, some people even need despair or anguish, it is not weird as it looks like, it is modern society that sells "happiness, joy and pleasure" as ultimate goals of life. Humans are more complex than that, we need other feelings too to build ourselves whole.

Edit: Like the anguish of being ugly, modern society teaches you to fix that with surgeries intead of using it to build your reality. Same with depression (aside from the chemical part that is) and other things. We are building a world that silences the screams of the soul instead of listening to them.

[KainD]

It is not joy from sadness it is more like satisfaction. Like eating when you are hungry. That's why I used the word feed. Not everybody is satisfied with good emotions, some people even need despair or anguish, it is not weird as it looks like, it is modern society that sells "happiness, joy and pleasure" as ultimate goals of life. Humans are more complex than that, we need other feelings too to build ourselves whole.

 

Nah not complex at all, your system just doesn't want to use too much of particular resources, namely the ''feel happy' neurotransmitters, or when it does, there is not enough left for regular functions. That's why it tries to keep emotional balance. 

 

 

 

Edit: Like the anguish of being ugly, modern society teaches you to fix that with surgeries intead of using it to build your reality. Same with depression (aside from the chemical part that is) and other things. We are building a world that silences the screams of the soul instead of listening to them.

 

Actually you can't really be ugly, there is no universal beauty standard. The fact that people think that they are ugly is also due to society teachings. 

[maloo78]

Well, as with any story it depends on your own point of view and your own ethics.

 

In DA2, Merrill said to Hawke on "The Betrayal":

 

The carvings tell the story of the Betrayal. The Dread Wolf tricking all the gods away from the world. Long ago, there were two clans of gods. The Creators looked after the People. The Forgotten Ones preyed upon us. And on god who was neither. Fen'Harel, the Dread Wolf. He was kin to the Creators, and in the old days, often helped them in their endless war against the Forgotten Ones. We barely even remember all their names, let alone who struck the first blow, who was wrong... Fen'Harel was clever. He could walk among both clans of gods without fear, and both believed he was one of them. He went to each side, and told them the other had forged a terrible weapon, a blade that would end the war. He told the Creators it was forged in the heavens, and the Forgotten Ones, that it was hidden in the abyss. And when the gods went seeking it, he sealed them both in their realms forever. Now he alone is left in the world.

 

If that was true, it appropriately depicts Solas as neither good nor bad, but a perfect blend, but ultimately a lone hunter, serving his own purpose, never fully choosing one side, but helping and tricking both.

He tricked Corypheus, he tricked the Inquisition and pitted them against each other. All to obtain his orb, his own personal goal. Only that the orb got smashed in the end, and he cannot reunite gods and mortals. The story begins anew...

 

The true ambiguity for me is, that in spite of his nature "Dread Wolf" / "He Who Hunts Alone", his biggest fear is dying alone. He had a chance with the Inquisitor (romance), but his nature seems to dictate his course of action. This points to a mentality of destiny and a pre-chosen path for the DA-universe, that no matter what you do, you will always remain true to your nature and play the card destiny has dealt you.

[OriginalTibs]

Nope not even companion characters. There is not a single companion in Inquisition that is not a self-righteous hypocrite / arguable goody two shoes, not a single advisor as well.

Arguably not even players. Not one of us accepts that we aren't the peers of the gods, such that we think ourselves capable of judging not only them, but adjudicate the nature and substance of Good and Evil.

[X Equestris]

Being a villain is different than being "evil".  The protagonist can be evil - look at Frank Underwood, Dexter and Walter White (not at all interested in entertaining the notion that these characters are not predominantly "evil").
 
When someone says: Solas will be the villain.  It is simply to say that they will be the opposing force (opposite the player) in an upcoming game.  Whether that's true or not - is of course speculation (and I pray it isn't)
 
In fantasy - the term 'evil' often holds an absolute (while in our world it is - as far as humans can be concerned - an abstract).  Evil beings in fantasy typically embody traditionally evil characteristics (see Corypheus). 
 
To this end, I am not sure I would call either of them (Solas or Flemeth) "evil". 
 
They have characteristics of self-obsessed polytheistic gods. Their egos are everything and they do not regard mortals as their peers (as is the case with Solas' deception through the entire game).  This will be simply megalomania if it turns out they're just "really powerful mortals" and not "gods".  By gods, I would suggest beings - no matter how mortal in appearance - that do not share a genesis with the mortals of Thedas. 
 
The reality is - that because of either megalomania or a disparate genesis - they are anathema to mortals (just like spirits/demons).  Their interests put mortals in a constant state of disregard.  This is, by it's nature, not evil (and is why a real God that disregarded mortals would not be so).  We have no indication that the universe was made for the specific condition of catering to the wants/needs of mortals.  So inconveniencing mortals - no matter how egregiously - does not bend or break the laws of the universe in which Thedas is in (or, is not an act of "evil").
 
However, since it will likely be guaranteed that you will be a mortal in any upcoming games - any actions of Solas or Flemeth - use you in the same way that we use animals.  If you are fine with that - then you may serve them as you see fit - chances are, Bioware would put you in the role of favorite pet (which they would call something suitable like: "Herald of Andraste" perhaps).  If you - as I would suspect many BSN forumites do - hold human (or in Thedas' situation mortals) in high regard - then the schemes of these "gods" are in opposition to your own.
 
I would say that Solas has very strong - traditionally evil - qualities. He strikes me very much an an "Emperor Palpatine" type (again, not interested in arguing how anyone things Palpatine wasn't evil).  He's gregarious - he's friendly - and until he decides to fold the Fade and Thedas into a **** sandwich - people will be predisposed to liking him. 
 
And I do agree with KaiserShep.  I actually do not believe - aside from being boorishly obtuse and bitter - I don't think Flemeth was particularly evil.

Your use of villain is incorrect. Villains are, by definition, bad. The examples you give are examples of a villain protagonist. Being a protagonist says nothing about your morality, it just means you're the focus of the story. Likewise, being an antagonist doesn't mean you're bad, it just means you oppose the protagonist. I mean, look at Shakespeare's Macbeth. Macbeth is the protagonist, but he is clearly evil. He is a villain protagonist. Meanwhile, Malcolm and MacDuff are good, but they oppose the protagonist. They are hero antagonists.

[c0bra951]

Bit of a 2-month bump there, eh?  Works for me.  I hadn't seen this thread.

 

There's too much moral relativism getting thrown around here.  There are absolutes.  Intentionally killing ordinary unarmed people for personal gain is always evil, for instance.  There is no question that Corypheus is evil.  Solas is more of a question mark.  He may not intend widespread destruction, but he seems perfectly comfortable with letting it happen.

[Sah291]

I don't think they are evil, but I think they probably just have a dual nature. Flemeth/Mythal helps and protects people, but her help usually comes with a price and it's implied she can be just as ruthless and vengeful with those who betray her, etc. And then Solas/Fen'Harel is wise and liberating (opposes slavery as god of rebellion), but on the flip side can be arrogant and prideful. So maybe a little bit of order vs chaos theme going with those two? But they are both very grey characters I think. We don't really know enough yet about either of their plans/goals.

[OriginalTibs]

@c0bra951 while I tend to favor absolutism over relativism myself, it should be acknowledged that absolutism involves as much presumption as relativism. It isn't settled that Idealism (absolute good, absolute evil) are more than theoretical even among theologians.

[Frybread76]

Not all antagonists are evil.  Some just pursue goals that conflict with those of the protagonist(s).  Others perform acts that might seem callous to outsiders but appear logical to themselves and/or their allies.  For instance, if Solas/Fen'Harel really wants to bring down the Veil to unite both the waking and spirit worlds (like it presumably was in ancient times), that might make sense from his and other ancient elves' perspectives but be a disaster from a "modern" Thedasian's, especially when it comes to their theories on demons.

 

So, do I think Solas and Flemeth are evil?  No.  Are they self-interested and possibly on course to commit acts that might endanger thousands of lives?  Perhaps.  If so, would they need to be stopped by the Inquisitor or a future protagonist?  Yes, unless Solas' plans are shown to be correct.

[Kakistos_]

PS.: Flemeth is probably dead and gone but it could be the other way around or something temporary or a merge... so I talked about them both as if they were both alive.

Doubt it. Flemeth was "Dead" in DA:O but she returned via a "piece" of herself in DA2 as an insurance policy. She could very well have more "pieces" of herself hidden somewhere.

[ElementalFury106]

A villain or adversary is not always evil, nor do they always stand against the forces of good. 

 

It's important to remember that. 

[c0bra951]

@c0bra951 while I tend to favor absolutism over relativism myself, it should be acknowledged that absolutism involves as much presumption as relativism. It isn't settled that Idealism (absolute good, absolute evil) are more than theoretical even among theologians.

 

The problem with relativism is that it allows us to be weak or standoffish about right and wrong.  Without getting too much into current world events, some things are clearly evil, and need to be labeled as such.  Getting mired in debates about motivations and causes only helps the enemy grow stronger.

 

The same is equally true in Thedas.  Come on.  You know where evil lies, and you know it must be opposed unflinchingly.  After the war is won, and the enemy lies dead, then we can have peaceful morality debates about theology, sex, and the inequities of life.

[Zarathiel]

Except for her little tantrum in DAI. "SHE WAS BETRAYED AS I WAS BETRAYED, AS THE WORLD WAS BETRAYED"

 

Helpful? Cryptic?

 

How is that not still cryptic? Because it's angry? She didn't say anything useful, as usual.