1394 réponses à ce sujet

[themikefest]

Meaning, Shepard had no real reason to believe Jacob.

I have no reason not to believe him. What reason would he have to lie? Its also confirmed by Liara when she tells you that she gave your body to Cerberus

 

Its also confirmed in that video that Shepard was clinically brain dead, so Jacob wasn't lying
 

If you got captured today by terorist, and one of their trainees told you that "yeah, we build you, you were pretty much a piece of meat back then and we spent two years and bilion dolars rebuilding you", would you believe them?

Until that does happen, I don't know what I would think, believe or anything else.

Would you believe them? Its hard to answer that question until you're in that position, right? You can say one thing now, but when that moment occurs, you may say something completely different.
 

Or would you rather believe that you just passed out, they scavenged your nearly asphyxated ass from space and doped you until they needed you awoken again?

Since I knew I was loosing air and there were no other ship in the area that could rescue me in the next few minutes, I would be dead.
 

I really think that this is rather logcal from Shepard. However, yeah, in a full-fledged RPG, the player should have a choice as to whether his character believes it or not (meaning at the ME3 videoterminal, and whether Shepard believed Cerberus two years ago or not).

If anything I would have Shepard say that she was told she was dead and finds it hard to believe. 

[illsteward]

@themikefest

(btw. can someone tell me who to ask if there is anything that can be done about this reply system not working? O-o )

 

I have no reason not to believe him. What reason would he have to lie?

 

 

...and on the same note: what reason would he have to tell me the truth? I don't know how that encounter plays out normaly, since I don't recall my previous runs very well, but at least my Shepard knew that Cerberus should not be trusted and would justify means to achieve their ends. At the same moment, he has seen their bases and they were fairly unimpressive. Why should Shepard suddenly trust someone, when previous experience proves them untrustworthy? Then again, that is the spirit of role-playing. I see no reason to trust him, you se no reason why he should be lying. Even though I believe that until some time, there are dialog hints that Shepard is generaly NOT trusting Cerberus, as opposed to those supporting your immediate trust. Not saying either position is wrong.

 

 

Its also confirmed in that video that Shepard was clinically brain dead, so Jacob wasn't lying

 

Pardon me if I remember something wrong here, but if you mean the video in ME3 on Chronos Base, that is YEARS after the conversation with Jacob. That can hardly be a basis for implicit trust from the beginning. If you mean the intro to ME2, well, yes, but then I guess it's depending on how much the player is reacting to his character's death. To me, it should be logical that Shepard has NO reason to believe that the impossible has happened... And there is lack of solid evidence at that point in game, I think.

 

Until that does happen, I don't know what I would think, believe or anything else.

Would you believe them? Its hard to answer that question until you're in that position, right? You can say one thing now, but when that moment occurs, you may say something completely different.

 

 

Fair enough. And yeah, I had an "encounter" with that situation, via a medium designed to serve as interactive narrating engine, in this case a videogame. And I reacted differently to you (at least based on your statements, I did). Still, imagine any other day-to-day situation that includes you being fed improbable - or impossible - statement from someone you regard unthrustworthy at best, and downright manipulative at worst. Which is how Cerberus is presented in ME. I think I am not the only one who would hesitate to immediately trust the person.

 

 

About the last two points - I think they both depends on what we believe Shepard percieved during the moments after he got spaced. I believe he lost consciousnes pretty fast and was unaware of the descend, atmospheric entry and other general damage caused to his body. Thus yeah, the last point is really demonstrating our difference and how fundamentally we reach the same conclussion. My Shepard would really find it hard - or impossible - to believe that he rose from the dead. At least most of them, anyhow. I think one or two might be fine with it... But it is kind of sad that we are not even given the chance to express our believe or disbelieve over the entire "Reconstructed from a pound of ground meat" event.

[Treacherous J Slither]

I role played it as her not falling unconscious but struggling for breath while entering that planets atmosphere. She knows she died and she went pretty hard.

[Heimerdinger]

Turian soldiers on Menae using the human army salute gesture. That didn't make much sense.

 

Cerberus apparently having a dreadnought. It's parked just outside Omega. Could be an asset reused by mistake though, dammit Bioware Montreal!

[Laughing_Man]

I role played it as her not falling unconscious but struggling for breath while entering that planets atmosphere. She knows she died and she went pretty hard.

 

Not much room for "role-playing" here, no oxygen in the suit + vaccum pressure, means a relatively quick loss of conciousness followed by death.

 

That said, the forces of re-entry in addition added to the final impact should have destroyed and scattered Shepard's remains far enough to make his body unrecoverable.

 

I don't really understand why it was required in the plot, considering how unlikely the story is for more than a few reasons.

[Treacherous J Slither]

Not much room for "role-playing" here, no oxygen in the suit + vaccum pressure, means a relatively quick loss of conciousness followed by death.

That said, the forces of re-entry in addition added to the final impact should have destroyed and scattered Shepard's remains far enough to make his body unrecoverable.

I don't really understand why it was required in the plot, considering how unlikely the story is for more than a few reasons.

Seems like she was still struggling as she began to descend. I don't believe space would be so merciful as to knock her out so quickly.

[Laughing_Man]

Seems like she was still struggling as she began to descend. I don't believe space would be so merciful as to knock her out so quickly.

 

Yeah, and if I'm not wrong you can see Shepard stop moving very quickly.

 

In any case, space... merciful? You are being far too romantic about it.  Space is not a being, it's the lack of... well, everything.

 

This is simply about what a human body can survive before expiring.

Humans are simply not built to survive in space, the end in this situation is relatively quick, and probably rather gruesome.

 

I'm trying not to imagine in too much details the effects of absolute zero combined with vaccum on the human body...

Bodily fluids erupting in an explosion of icy gore? Eyes popping? Brain freezing and exploding through the skull?

 

I'm not really sure. It won't be pretty, but thankfully, I think that it shouldn't be long either.

[MrFob]

Well, the suit definitely has some sort of oxygen supply. After all, you wear it on quite a few occasions in a vacuum in all 3 games.

So I guess how fast the pressure drops depends on how bad the rupture is and how well the suit's systems can compensate, both variables we have no idea about.

That said, I do agree with your other point that the recovery of Shepard's body after s/he descended to the planet just doesn't make sense at all.

I'd have kept Shepard floating in space (still doesn't make much sense this way but it's better than atmospheric re-entry and impact, IMO).

As to why it was required for Shep to die, I also think it was a very whimsical decision by the writers. A coma would have done just as well to go two years into the future. I guess they wanted to make Shepard even more special as the guy who returned from the dead but they went completely overboard with it (especially since only very few people knew that he was dead and not just missing).

[Iakus]

Shepard's suit clearly has multiple ruptures after the explosion

[Emissary of the Collectors]

 

Krogan were converted. Brute is a fusion of a turian and krogan.

 

I just want to point out that this feels like a typo on Bioware's part. The Brute looks like a Turian head on a Yahg body, nothing about this creature resembles a Krogan whatsoever so it feels like they designed the creature and then gave the image to the writer who accidentally wrote Krogan and nobody bothered to correct it

[Vazgen]

I just want to point out that this feels like a typo on Bioware's part. The Brute looks like a Turian head on a Yahg body, nothing about this creature resembles a Krogan whatsoever so it feels like they designed the creature and then gave the image to the writer who accidentally wrote Krogan and nobody bothered to correct it

I'm not sure about this being a typo. They have a line about the Yahg - Hackett tells Shepard that Reapers leave Yahg homeworld alone. And codex entry mentions the krogan three times

The brute is a hulking amalgamation of turian and krogan victims of the Reapers. Because tissue from dextro-protein species like the turians is incompatible with levo-protein species like the krogan, implants regulate the brute's body chemistry to combat organ rejection.

It is the fusion of turian military skill and krogan blood rage that makes the brute such a formidable enemy, capable of destroying armored vehicles to get to the soldiers inside. Troops are advised to keep their distance, and, whenever possible, not engage a brute alone.

 

But I agree, there is some weird sh*t going on

Spoiler

[SuperJogi]

Yeah, and if I'm not wrong you can see Shepard stop moving very quickly.

 

In any case, space... merciful? You are being far too romantic about it.  Space is not a being, it's the lack of... well, everything.

 

This is simply about what a human body can survive before expiring.

Humans are simply not built to survive in space, the end in this situation is relatively quick, and probably rather gruesome.

 

I'm trying not to imagine in too much details the effects of absolute zero combined with vaccum on the human body...

Bodily fluids erupting in an explosion of icy gore? Eyes popping? Brain freezing and exploding through the skull?

 

I'm not really sure. It won't be pretty, but thankfully, I think that it shouldn't be long either.

 

Actually, space is pretty "merciful" in that regard. Your tissiue is strong enough to keep your internal pressure high and prevent your fluids from boiling. The only thing that starts boiling is fluids exposed to the vacuum like spit, sweat and tears, but nothing is gonna explode. The thing that kills you is the air beeing pushed out of your lungs, after which you will pass out after about 15 seconds and shortly later die from lack of oxygen. It's a relativly painless process.

[Laughing_Man]

Actually, space is pretty "merciful" in that regard. Your tissiue is strong enough to keep your internal pressure high and prevent your fluids from boiling. The only thing that starts boiling is fluids exposed to the vacuum like spit, sweat and tears, but nothing is gonna explode. The thing that kills you is the air beeing pushed out of your lungs, after which you will pass out after about 15 seconds and shortly later die from lack of oxygen. It's a relativly painless process.

 

Right, I had a feeling that something like this would happen. I just wasn't sure if the body will be able to hold itself together after.

[Treacherous J Slither]

Actually, space is pretty "merciful" in that regard. Your tissiue is strong enough to keep your internal pressure high and prevent your fluids from boiling. The only thing that starts boiling is fluids exposed to the vacuum like spit, sweat and tears, but nothing is gonna explode. The thing that kills you is the air beeing pushed out of your lungs, after which you will pass out after about 15 seconds and shortly later die from lack of oxygen. It's a relativly painless process.

Welp that settles it then. She gets spaced, mercifully passes out before burning up, wakes up in a Cerberus lab.

My Shep is conscious and burning though. More fun that way.

[themikefest]

dogtags

 

Why did Hackett give Shepard's dogtags to Liara? Why not give them to Shepard's mother for those that play a spacer?

 

 

The SR1's crash site. How did the dogtags for the some of the deceased get in containers?

[Treacherous J Slither]

dogtags

Why did Hackett give Shepard's dogtags to Liara? Why not give them to Shepard's mother for those that play a spacer?


The SR1's crash site. How did the dogtags for the some of the deceased get in containers?

Because that's where the deceased had put them? Not all soldiers wear their tags 24/7.

[themikefest]

Because that's where the deceased had put them? Not all soldiers wear their tags 24/7.

Really? Do you have anything to support that comment?

[MrFob]

Actually, space is pretty "merciful" in that regard. Your tissiue is strong enough to keep your internal pressure high and prevent your fluids from boiling. The only thing that starts boiling is fluids exposed to the vacuum like spit, sweat and tears, but nothing is gonna explode. The thing that kills you is the air beeing pushed out of your lungs, after which you will pass out after about 15 seconds and shortly later die from lack of oxygen. It's a relativly painless process.

 

And isn't that when your body is basically exposed to space without any protection? In this case, Shepard still wears a suit, which is ruptured and air is seen streaming out of it. This means that inside the suit, there is still a higher pressure. Hence my post above.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

So Shepard essentially dies of asphyxiation and then burns up in the atmosphere. It's amazing her helmet landed intact with nary a scorch mark. This is a case of Sci-fi writers Have No Sense of Science. Wait! It happened because that is no ordinary human being. That is The Shepard we're talking about. The hand of god protected her from burning up as she entered the toxic atmosphere of Alchera. And after the events of Mass Effect 3 there was a religion formed: Shepardism.

[Laughing_Man]

So Shepard essentially dies of asphyxiation and then burns up in the atmosphere. It's amazing her helmet landed intact with nary a scorch mark. This is a case of Sci-fi writers Have No Sense of Science. Wait! It happened because that is no ordinary human being. That is The Shepard we're talking about. The hand of god protected her from burning up as she entered the toxic atmosphere of Alchera. And after the events of Mass Effect 3 there was a religion formed: Shepardism.

 

I just think about what happens to a burned human body after it meets the ground after being launched from space by an explosion...

The poor shadow broker agents probably had to collect frozen Shaperd-juice all over the continent.

[MrFob]

I just think about what happens to a burned human body after it meets the ground after being launched from space by an explosion...

The poor shadow broker agents probably had to collect frozen Shaperd-juice all over the continent.

 

Wow, after reading this, I can't help but think about the fact that we do not hear anything about Tupari until ME2.

 

Implications ... unpleasant.

[SuperJogi]

So Shepard essentially dies of asphyxiation and then burns up in the atmosphere. It's amazing her helmet landed intact with nary a scorch mark. This is a case of Sci-fi writers Have No Sense of Science. Wait! It happened because that is no ordinary human being. That is The Shepard we're talking about. The hand of god protected her from burning up as she entered the toxic atmosphere of Alchera. And after the events of Mass Effect 3 there was a religion formed: Shepardism.

 

Yeah, I really don't like how they wanted to turn Shepard into "Space Jesus".

I want my hero to some guy not the "The Chosen One". Please keep supernatural stuff like fate and destiny out of my Science-Fiction.

The Star Wars prequels did the same **** with Darth Vader and I hated it.

[Treacherous J Slither]

Really? Do you have anything to support that comment?

Nope!

[Laughing_Man]

Yeah, I really don't like how they wanted to turn Shepard into "Space Jesus".

I want my hero to some guy not the "The Chosen One". Please keep supernatural stuff like fate and destiny out of my Science-Fiction.

The Star Wars prequels did the same **** with Darth Vader and I hated it.

 

To be more accurate, SW is not exactly Sci-Fi, The Force makes it into a a futuristic space fantasy. (only most of the technology is really primitive, in a way that reminds you of WW2 era technology.) The midi-chlorians nonsense did nothing to change it from fantasy to Sci-Fi.

[SuperJogi]

To be more accurate, SW is not exactly Sci-Fi, The Force makes it into a a futuristic space fantasy. (only most of the technology is really primitive, in a way that reminds you of WW2 era technology.) The midi-chlorians nonsense did nothing to change it from fantasy to Sci-Fi.

 

Thats true, SW is not the same genre, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. I always find that it somehow demeans the heros achievements. He didn't win because he was smarter or stronger, no he won because it was his "destiny". He is nothing more than the pawn of a higher power, anyone could have done it, if they where "chosen".

Also, often times it's just a lazy way to get the plot going, and explain away character motivations:

 

"Why is he doing that?"

"He is the chosen one, he has to fulfill the prophecy."

"Ugh.. OK."

 

Darth Vader didn't kill the Emperor because seeing his son in pain made him realise his mistakes and what horrible man he is serving. No, he was meant to do so by the force. It ruins the character. Matrix sequels are another good (or bad) example for this.

Luckily, BW didn't make it that obvious with Shepard for most of the game, but they were defenitly going for it with the ending.

 

Speaking of midi-chlorians: This is a good example of a case where not explaining and just keeping it magic would have been the better idea.