1395 réponses à ce sujet

[Marolf]

Many of the arms and armor manufactures originate from earth.

 

Hahne-Kedar, Rosenkov, Kassa, Ariake .....

 

The human fraction is their in Citadel Space since what, 20-30 years?

 

I know, the Codex states, they got the monopole on MediGel, but on the weapons market?

Some races use the mass effect technology for centuries, but then a newbie shows up and takes over half the market?

 

On the other side, the most common arms of the Systems Alliance (Carnifex, Predator) are manufactured by turian companies, the M-8 Avenger (the AR used by most of SA personnel) is manufactured by Elkos, which is a volus company from the Terminus Systems.

[SuperJogi]

Many of the arms and armor manufactures originate from earth.

 

Hahne-Kedar, Rosenkov, Kassa, Ariake .....

 

The human fraction is their in Citadel Space since what, 20-30 years?

 

I know, the Codex states, they got the monopole on MediGel, but on the weapons market?

Some races use the mass effect technology for centuries, but then a newbie shows up and takes over half the market?

 

Considering how crappy most ME weapons are, we could have probably taken over the galactic market by selling of some soviet surplus gear.

I mean the RPG 7 considerably outperforms any anti tank weapon the council has. Just dig some up out of some ditch in Afghanistan and sell them to the tuians.

Now that would explain how the alliance beat the turains on shanxi...

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

In Leviathan, the big squid knows all about the Intelligence, yet Shepard doesn't ask it where the Intelligence is. Nor does squiddy inform Shepard that it is in the Citadel. Leviathan has been watching this harvest for over a billion years. It built the damned thing. It should know where the hell it is. But Shepard doesn't ask. Nor does it volunteer the information.

 

Only Cerberus can know these things.

[themikefest]

In Leviathan, the big squid knows all about the Intelligence, yet Shepard doesn't ask it where the Intelligence is. Nor does squiddy inform Shepard that it is in the Citadel. Leviathan has been watching this harvest for over a billion years. It built the damned thing. It should know where the hell it is. But Shepard doesn't ask. Nor does it volunteer the information.

 

Only Cerberus can know these things.

If the dlc was part of the main game, I'm sure Shepard would've asked the question or the Leviathan would've told her/him.

[vargr1105]

I don't know if it's just me, but the Turian mandible-things make little sense.

I'm trying to think of an evolutionary reason for the Turians to have them, but it seems to me like it would be useless for just about anything.

 

You mean the protusions that the Turians have on the sides of the chin? Well there's an obvious evolutionary reason for those, they are gender and maturity traits. If you notice the males have rather larger, longer and curved protusions than the females. Amogn males they also curve in different patterns. Essentially the mandible protusions take on the same role as beards in humans or manes in lions. I would not be surprised if Turian infants lack them entirely at birth and they slowly grow until the Turian reaches sexual maturity. So the mandible protusions help with gender and age recognition, they may also be an indicator of the general "health" of an individual Turian's genes.

 

So granted, there is no *practical* reason for the existence if those things from a mechancial point of view, but it does play an important role in a sentient species. Peacocks and other birds have physical traits that are just as "useless" too. Nature can be funny sometimes.

 

That's assuming my speculative interpretation is correct, of course. I think what I wrote is falls under what folks call "headcanon" in the forums, right? It may well be the turians have mandible protusions simply because the design artist though they looked "kewl! Awezome! OMG! etc, etc"

 

 

 

Another thing that doesn't make sense:

Not curing the genophage when you have the chance out of fear of what the krogan will do if/when the Reapers are destroyed.

As if victory can be assured. Ridiculous.

 

Actually it is curing the genophage that is ridiculous once you realise you don't need to cure it and the Krogan still believe it was cured. You get the troops to help with the victory that is not assured and don't kick the 2nd Krogan wars bucket down the road.

 

"Hey, lets save millions of lives now and ensure millions of livfe will be lost in a few years when the Krogan are done breeding their hordes."

 

 

What is also ridiculous is Wrex suddenly and magically finding out about the deceit post-facto due to some other SSTG mole that magically comes to existence with zero foreshadowing afterwards (and who does nothing if Wrex isn't around).

But you know, Wrex must come after you with a shotgun, like a farmer seeking redress for his defiled virgin daughter because...drama...and reasons....and stuff. Yeah.

 

 

Speaking of the Genophage and the SSTG, more ridicule: has anyone tought it odd just how easy the genophage was to cure, when we've been repetedly told no solution had been found for over 1000 years? No really, there are 3 Salarians (Mordin, Melon and Padik) who on their own can find a cure for it by themselves. Mordin and Melon can do it at the drop of a hat even *without* Melon extensive data so I guess his brutal and unethical medical research methods were not only brutal and unhetical, they were also assinine. So he was not just "amphibian space Dr. Mengele", he was "stupid idiot amphibian space Dr. Mengele "

 

And in fact the cure is so darn easy to brew it can be researched, developed, manufactured and delivered amidst a galactic war with huge "EXTERMINATE ALL SPACEFARING SENTIENTS!" cybernetic space machines and delivered using a tower with 1000-year old technology that is blowing up as it does so (and somehow magicially cures even the Krogan that were not on planet Tuchanka. Man, Salarian old tech towers are awesome!). In fact, the only reason the cure *may* fail is because Salarian agents have pre-sabotaged the tower *years* in advance. Which means the Salarian government and the SSTG are fully aware of just how easy the Genophage can be cured.

 

Which leads us to yet another question and yet another ridiculous realization.

 

 

How come SSTG, the agency which has inspired the SPECTREs themselves and has been a legend within its field for centuries, has 4 (four!) turncoats within its ranks (Mordin, Maelon, Padik and the Mole) which *just happen* to be anti-genopahge? Don't these people do psych profile evaluations on their agents before hiring, during employment and after service is over? I mean, even us primitive 21st century humans do so, why don't the future super-scientific space amphibians?. And the SSTG *knows* just how easy curing the genophage will be. I think the hamfisted plot just made the agency and its government as a whole pick up the idiot ball for ME3 when it was required.

 

"Oh yeah. You're involved in our top secret biological weapons projects and illegal wetworks division and privy to some of the deepest, darkest secrets of our government. Sure, you can retire and go wherever you want, and blab your lips about it. We won't keep an eye on you. By all means, get in touch with aliens and spill the beans. No, no the Dalatrass and the government don't need to know any of this it ain't important. Here at the SSTG we only surveil *others*, we do not keep and eye on our own...we're on an "honor" system ya know."

 

 

And last but not least and related to the above, was anyone anyoned by Mordin's ridiculous turnabout in ME3?

 

After a whole game explaining what the genophage is (which had changed since ME1 btw) and why it was right and ended up *saving* the Krogan and revealing that unlike what those hump-back bastard are whinning about their numbers *aren't* decreasing (it's their own stupidity because they are all depressed now that they can't engage in orgies of violence, invasion, genocide and colony-drops leading males to lead chaste pff-world mercenary lives...idiots!); after discourses telling us that the Genophage actually *didn't* work and the Krogan were naturally healing themselves off it and it was necessary to go black ops for booster shots of it...he then turns around all sactimonious and does an 180 turn on the whole thing?

 

Really?!

 

And to the point he gets so obstinate about it that if you turned left instead of turning right in ME2 and/or don't have enough Reputation points you actually have to shoot the little bastard to prevent him from unleashing the 2nd Krogan Wars upon the galaxy in the future?

 

What an ass! And I used to like him too. I mean, did Mordin get hit by brick on the head and suffer brain damage somewhere in the 6 months between ME2 and ME3? Because *that* would at least explain his schizoid personality shift in a rational (albeit too convinient) manner. Instead what we get is:

 

 

ME 2: "Did what was necessary. No Regrets. Genophage best solution, for Krogan, for everyone. Save Krogan race, all other possibilities considered. Thousands of models always end up with war against the Krogan. Always. Glad you see it my way Shepard."

 

ME 3: "I MADE A MISTAAAAAKE!!!"

 

 

Really?   Wtf?

 

Are Salarian males known for undergoinbg some weird menopause-like dissociative personality disorder as they near the age or 40? Because *that* would be a better and more logical explanation than what we got; which was nothing.

[Laughing_Man]

@Vargr1105

 

I'll just say that Bioware likes to insert not-so-subtle political messages into their games, and that any kind of pragmatic approach, non-wide-eyed-idealism, etc. is usually discouraged.

 

Bioware is trying to tell grown adults that the naive goody-two-shoes approach is always rewarded by the gods of the universe, no matter how grey and harsh reality is, and how much more logical in some cases it would be to act in a more cautionary, pragmatic, and practical way.

 

I don't remember even once in a Bioware game where the naively-idealistic approach exploded spectacularly in the protagonist's face, like it tends to happen many times in real life.

[KrrKs]

Actually it is curing the genophage that is ridiculous once you realise you don't need to cure it and the Krogan still believe it was cured. You get the troops to help with the victory that is not assured and don't kick the 2nd Krogan wars bucket down the road.

 

"Hey, lets save millions of lives now and ensure millions of livfe will be lost in a few years when the Krogan are done breeding their hordes."

 

While I agree on the Mordin statement, this is rather short sighted imo. (Also topic of several topics before)

 

Disregarding meta-Knowledge:

At that point Shepard only knows that the war could take centuries.

In the ME:U ground forces seem to trump starships, so more ground forces is an immense plus.

(This is why you/the Turians want the Krogan in the first place.)

If this kind of war, and with the Krogan fully commited to it, they will simply run out in a few years -If not cured- because there are not enough newborns.

 

With the Krogan cured, there is a small chance to hold out that long and eventually defeat the Reapers.

Without the cure you have no Krogan support after a few years and are that much closer to defeat.

 

What the Krogan could do after an eventual victory over the Reapers is something else, but personally I'd rather get headbutted into stoneage than turned into an DNA- smoothie.

[Laughing_Man]

In the ME:U ground forces seem to trump starships

 

This is just one more thing that makes no sense. An orbital bombardment is extremely effective against ground forces, especially if you don't care about collateral damage.

 

Regarding the Krogan: While I agree that at the time worrying about the effect of an explosive rise in Krogan numbers after the war is rather... premature,

the fact is that finding a middle-way solution seems like the more cautious approach.

 

I mean, if every female actually can give birth to dozens or hundreds little Krogys every time, and can do this repeatedly in a relatively short period,

the Krogan will be able to multiply faster than WH40K's Orks...

[Fixers0]

This is just one more thing that makes no sense. An orbital bombardment is extremely effective against ground forces, especially if you don't care about collateral damage.

 

The thing is, most startship weaponry simple isn't potent enough to do any significant damage to a planetside target, let alone targeting and distance issues.

[Laughing_Man]

The thing is, most startship weaponry simple isn't potent enough to do any significant damage to a planetside target, let alone targeting and distance issues.

 

By all rights it should be. It's all about kinetic energy, and especially the bigger ship have guns that are measured in kilotons or megatons.

[vargr1105]

While I agree on the Mordin statement, this is rather short sighted imo. (Also topic of several topics before)

 

Isn't it the other way around? Going for the easy solution now without concern for the implications of its implementatioon on the future is the definition of "shortighted". Mordin is the one being shortsighted, not my Shepard.

 

 

Disregarding meta-Knowledge

 

I had no meta-knowledge of the matter at the time I was playing the game and my opinion then was the same as I presented now. I was ready to decieve the Krogans come hell or high water based solely on what I knew by the time I arrived in Tuchanka.

 

 

At that point Shepard only knows that the war could take centuries.

 

False, as shown both in-game and via war data from Earth. Liara has projected the spacefaring galaxy as a whole may hold out for one century at the best before total defeat. (long before this of course several species will be gone)

 

It is also irrelevant how many centuries, or even decades the war would last. What Shepard knows is that right now the casualty rate on Earth stands at 7 million per week (check the "London Invaded" trailer) and that is before deaths due to famine, disease and general infrastructure failure begin to add to it. This means total decimation of its 11,400,000,000 population will happen in less than 4.5 solar years (unless the Reapers decide to take a little breather). Fully, irredemable civilizational and cultural collapse will of course happen well before that.

 

 

(This is why you/the Turians want the Krogan in the first place.)

 

No. The Turians want Krogan boots-on-the-ground in Palaven for ground operations to help them prevent getting their asses kicked because in ME land-based infantry is magically a countermeasure to orbital assaults. We want Turian space fleets to support our own operations on Earth so the same doesn't happen here (human infantry apparently does not have the same anti-space-fleet magical powers of Krogans and Turians...because reasons). Krogans are not deployed in numbers on Earth until the final Crucible joint operation, and that only happens because the Citadel has left the Nebula and come to Sol system, which no one saw coming. Even then, the Krogans warriors making landfall on Terra are not newborns issuing from genophage cure, but adult pre-existing warriors.

 

The Demographics of the Krogan have zero effect on the course of the war, and the operational plan expected as much.

 

 

If this kind of war, and with the Krogan fully commited to it, they will simply run out in a few years -If not cured- because there are not enough newborns.

 

I don't want to sound obtuse or confrontational, but it would really help if people opinating about Mass Effect actually bothered to play the game, or if they did, make an effort to remember what its setting presented us with.   

 

The human war strategy in the war against the reapers on ME3 is never organized assuming years of warfare. There is the Crucible and you need some months to build the thing , so you have to:

 

a) hold out until then

deploy the darn thing with as much of a massive fleet as you can, preferably with as many species as possible because the Reapers are sure to try and stop it

 

and

 

c) No one projected large combined force operations on Terra of the likes of Hammer until the Citadel drops by the Sol system. It was half ass-pull half improvisation. A desperate gambit where the biggest combined fleet of the cycle was mostly a ruse to deploy some ground mook reinforcements and buy them enough time for their shinning space elevator operation and the copulation of Crucyble + Citadel.

 

 

If the Turians didn't need the Krogan on Palaven and had just given Humanity fleet assistance from day one the whole Tuchanka arc would not have happened. The Genophage cure is a political carrot to indirectly obtain Turian spaceships to buy our humanoid Terran asses enough time, it has nothing to do with the war effort directly and its demographic effects on Krogan are going to have zero effect on the wartime operations as planned. Everyone knows this from the beggining. The only reason its the genophage is the issue is because whoever is running the Krogan circus wants its. He could have asked for one megaton of Eezo, or something else entirely. And the reason the genophage is getting cured right now is because the blackmailing bastard wants it now. Not because its demographic effects years from now are somehow part of the war plans.

 

 

If this kind of war, and with the Krogan fully commited to it, they will simply run out in a few years -If not cured- because there are not enough newborns.

 

Irrelevant and false. Earth will be depopulated well before future Krogan newborns mature to be ground forces. You aren't giving the Genophage cure to get the Krogan warriors of the future for a long. protacted war of attrition. You exchanging it for the support of the millions of Krogan warriors existing right now, and the goal is not to defeat the Reapers in direct confrontation but to "hold the line" for a few months so that:

 

1) Palaven doesn't go bye-bye presently

2) The Turian armadas assist with preventing that (1) does not happen to earth

3) This status belli is maintaned as much as possible until the Mega Space McGuffi...er i mean the Catalyst is built and can be deployed.

 

I can't remember the number of times I heard the line "We cannot defeat the reapers in direct confrontation." while playing the game. What are Krogan going to be used for? For direct confrontation agaist reapers. Wait...are these people stupid? No. The reptiles are going to be used as cannon fodder to hold the line temporarily for an ally who will then provide us fleet support so we may hold the line in our own turf as much as posible until the crucible is complete.

 

 

 

With the Krogan cured, there is a small chance to hold out that long and eventually defeat the Reapers.

Without the cure you have no Krogan support after a few years and are that much closer to defeat.

 

What the Krogan could do after an eventual victory over the Reapers is something else, but personally I'd rather get headbutted into stoneage than turned into an DNA- smoothie.

 

I am going to repeat myself, again. Every human on Earth will be dead or huskified in less time than it takes them future Krogan newborns to become viable warriors. Repeat after me: Krogan demographics with genophage cure have nothing to do with the fate of the Earth in ME3 or the war plans of the alliance and its allies. There is no "hold out long", there is only "Hold out NOW and pray the Catalyst works" in their plans.

 

 

What the Krogan could do after an eventual victory over the Reapers is something else, but personally I'd rather get headbutted into stoneage than turned into an DNA- smoothie.

 

Except that unlike the reapers, we do not have a space mcguffin Catalyst that we believe can can defeat the Krogan hordes in one fell swoop once they get uppity. Ergo from the point of view of the Alliance and any war analysts in their ranks who aren't fully retarded, while the Reapers are a clear and present danger right now, Krogan hordes will actually be more dangerous and harder to deal with in the near future.

 

You won't get a chance to be headbutted to the stone age because an eventual victory over the reapers means the population of Earth has already been turned into DNA- smoothie...or huskified...or got a red ocular reaper laser up its behind..or was lost to starvation/disease/exposure/etc. Heck, that has already happened to the Batarians and the Elcor even before the ME3 game is over.

 

For Earth (and Palaven, and Thessia later in the game) there is no place for terms like "eventually", "protracted" or "long-term" in this war. You either stop the reapers via McGuffin within a few months at most, Krogan baby boom irrelevant, or YOU LOSE! Game over man, game over! Go directly to Jail. Do not pass "Go!", Do not collect $100. Period, Paragraph. End of situational premisse.

 

Remember, I didn't write the darn thing, and I am not saying I like it or even defending it. I think the premisse and narrative are contrived, illogical, non-sensical and rail-roading from the opening sequence onwards, and they let you know everything is hinging on a Deux Ex Machina from the moment you finish the Mars Base mission and that there's no other way. I am just laying it out as it is then pointing out, correctly, that according to the bullsh*t the very setting has established when the option is given to you, curing the Genophage when you don't have to is not only nonsensical, it is downright counterproductive if you win the war against the reapers...which is the darn point of the game in the first place, innit? So why risk another genocidial war in the near future when you don't have to?

 

Now, if you want to give Krogan the Genophage cure because you like them, or because your personal morals and ethics dictate you should do so, that's another matter and feel free to do so. I have zero problems with those choices or the logical behind them. Just don't try to pass them off as the correct and sensible one for the sake of the continued existence and safety of Terra given what Shepard knows at the time the option is given because it objectively and demonstrably isn't.

 

And of course, if this was a real-life situation I (meaning me vargr1105, not fictional Shepard) would shoot you in the back without hesitation to prevent you from doing it, and afterwards go back to my crib and sleep guilt-free like a baby with full knowledge that, if there is a God, he would be smiling down upon me.

 

 

I mean, if every female actually can give birth to dozens or hundreds little Krogys every time, and can do this repeatedly in a relatively short period,

the Krogan will be able to multiply faster than WH40K's Orks...

 

In-game cannon tells us that:

 

1) Krogan females cured from the genophage can have 1,000 offspring per year normally.

2) There are a billion fertile females in Tuchanka.

 

You do the math...

 

And while we are at it who the flying f**k thought it was a good idea to have an 1000% fertility rate increase amidst a galactic war? Yeah...all those millions, upon millions, upon millins of babies are going to have zero detrimental effect on resources and infrastructure both during the war and during reconstruction if the reapers are beaten.

 

I will point it out again: 1000% fertility rate increase

 

Anyone who thinks the Krogan Rebellions 2.0 aren't going to happen, even if just due to sheer population pressure and resource exausthion...is an idiot (i.e. a person who has bad ideas).

[Barquiel]

Not sure if someone already mentioned this, but Udina's coup doesn't make much sense. The Council representatives are not the actual leaders of those species. Killing the ambassadors of other countries doesn't mean you suddenly get to run their military...Udina should know that

[Laughing_Man]

In-game cannon tells us that:

 

1) Krogan females cured from the genophage can have 1,000 offspring per year normally.

2) There are a billion fertile females in Tuchanka.

 

You do the math...

 

And while we are at it who the flying f**k thought it was a good idea to have an 1000% fertility rate increase amidst a galactic war? Yeah...all those millions, upon millions, upon millins of babies are going to have zero detrimental effect on resources and infrastructure both during the war and during reconstruction if the reapers are beaten.

 

I will point it out again: 1000% fertility rate increase

 

Anyone who thinks the Krogan Rebellions 2.0 aren't going to happen, even if just due to sheer population pressure and resource exausthion...is an idiot (i.e. a person who has bad ideas).

 

Nice to discuss something that isn't Quarian related...

 

A horde of young Krogans is extremely useful as Banshee fodder. Just give each of them a shotgun and send them in.

They will delay the Reaper ground forces enough to give other fighters a chance. Those that survive can live to headbutt another day, and maybe become actual warriors.

 

But yeah, those numbers are insane. If I had a choice, I would lower Krogan birth rate (not birth survival rate, actual birth numbers) to say, ten Krogys per birth? The Krogan will have to actually teach them how to fight, not just throw a horde of cubs at the enemy, but their potential should still be significant.

[Ahriman]

In-game cannon tells us that:

 

1) Krogan females cured from the genophage can have 1,000 offspring per year normally.

2) There are a billion fertile females in Tuchanka.

I can't imagine these numbers. You can't feed thousand of children.

Neither you can educate them, so unless 990 of them die, you'll get hungry hordes of antropomorphic predators running around. How they made it to nuclear age is beyond me. Codex writers probably just wanted to impress people with big numbers.

[Laughing_Man]

I can't imagine these numbers. You can't feed thousand of children.

Neither you can educate them, so unless 990 of them die, you'll get hungry hordes of antropomorphic predators running around. How they made it to nuclear age is beyond me. Codex writers probably just wanted to impress people with big numbers.

 

Still, even if it's "merely" a few dozens or hundreds each birth, the danger is still great.

[vargr1105]

I can't imagine these numbers. You can't feed thousand of children.

Neither you can educate them, so unless 990 of them die, you'll get hungry hordes of antropomorphic predators running around. How they made it to nuclear age is beyond me. Codex writers probably just wanted to impress people with big numbers.

 

It is not a Codex entry. This information is provided to the player by playing the game. Yes, them numbers don't make sense to me either, but if that is what the game tells me while I am playing it then I am going to base my PC's actions accordingly to info provided.

 

 

Nice to discuss something that isn't Quarian related...

 

Nice to see you can be civil and add to a dicsussion rather than simply:

 

- Making veiled and unveiled Ad Hominem attacks

- Dismissing everything I write as a "wall of text"

- Hijacking threads I'm in the minute I type the word "Quarians" or "Asari" to drop your bile and hatred

- Failing to show the simplest form of respect for the opinions of others

- Treating me as if I was some kind of base-dwelling "Talimancer" obsessed with a fictional species and on a "biased crusade" for them

- Treating me as a crazy person that "hates Asari" and must atone and repent his evil ways

- Lumping me in with obscure groups you hate and I know nothing about, then render judgement based on whatever bad history you have with them

- Systematically attempting to derrail every conversation I have engaged in with others where the words "Quarian" or "Asari" are used.

- Coming off as a blatantlyI hypocritical hater who keeps accusing me of hating something fictional

 

So pardon me, but I am not interested in discussing anything with you at this time just because, for once, you come off as a rational and functional human being rather than a hatred-filled forum stalker.

 

But I do admire the chutzpah its takes to giving me constant crap about two fictional alien races, then turning around and be civil about a third fictional alien race as if nothing had happened. Bravo sir! You have amused me.

[Daemul]

@Vargr1105

 

I'll just say that Bioware likes to insert not-so-subtle political messages into their games, and that any kind of pragmatic approach, non-wide-eyed-idealism, etc. is usually discouraged.

 

Bioware is trying to tell grown adults that the naive goody-two-shoes approach is always rewarded by the gods of the universe, no matter how grey and harsh reality is, and how much more logical in some cases it would be to act in a more cautionary, pragmatic, and practical way.

 

I don't remember even once in a Bioware game where the naively-idealistic approach exploded spectacularly in the protagonist's face, like it tends to happen many times in real life.

 

I remember former Bioware writer Chris Etoile saying one time on another forum that his former colleagues at Bioware were too idealistic for their own good, and he's right, Bioware tried to feed us a hell of a lot of nonsense in ME3 and their other games, I found myself laughing out loud at many intervals due to how blatant it was at times, they didn't hide it very well at all. 

 

At times during ME3 I was actually thought that the writing must have been done by teenagers, because there's no way any grown adults, with massive amounts of life experience, could be this naive, until I saw Chris Etolie's post. The only explain is that Bioware writers must be very disenfranchised with struggles of life and are trying to create the perfect fantasy worlds which they and those who play their games can escape to, worlds where you can always do "good" things without any consequences(the ME3 ending being the only glorious exception to this). It's admirable, but they take it too far at times. 

[Iakus]

 

At times during ME3 I was actually thought that the writing must have been done by teenagers, because there's no way any grown adults, with massive amounts of life experience, could be this naive, until I saw Chris Etolie's post. 

You only have to look at outfits like Miranda's or Samara's in ME2 to reach that conclusion. 

[SubjectZer0]

Hey everyone just joined the other day and I know everyone is talking about Andromeda right now but I was just playing through 3 again today and there's some stuff that I'm having a hard time understanding so can someone please try to explain this?? Thank you!

Why did cerberus attack the Citadel?? Udina was desperate for help for earth and wanted to take power to order all the fleets there and he asked cerberus for help, but is that what Cerberus wanted or were they just trying to kill the council for another reason?

And when did the illusive man become indoctrinated exactly?? Is he indoctrinated at the start of the game?

Also WHY did the Reapers move the Citadel above earth? What was the point of that??

[Laughing_Man]

Hey everyone just joined the other day and I know everyone is talking about Andromeda right now but I was just playing through 3 again today and there's some stuff that I'm having a hard time understanding so can someone please try to explain this?? Thank you!

Why did cerberus attack the Citadel?? Udina was desperate for help for earth and wanted to take power to order all the fleets there and he asked cerberus for help, but is that what Cerberus wanted or were they just trying to kill the council for another reason?

And when did the illusive man become indoctrinated exactly?? Is he indoctrinated at the start of the game?

Also WHY did the Reapers move the Citadel above earth? What was the point of that??

 

Welcome.

 

1. "Why did cerberus attack the Citadel?..."

Unclear. It is unlikely that they could have assumed control on alien forces merely by controlling the Citadel.

I guess that the real answer would depend on how deeply Cerberus and the illusive man were indoctrinated at this point.

 

2. "And when did the illusive man become indoctrinated exactly??..."

Another good question. The illusive man got his cool eyes from a reaper artifact that tried to turn him into a husk way back in the story before cerberus became a thing (in a graphic novel that I can't remember its name right now) but got interrupted by certain events that occurred. Was he somewhat influenced even this far back? Could be. Hard to say.

 

3. "Also WHY did the Reapers move the Citadel above earth? What was the point of that??"

ME3 was not very subtle with the whole "save earth" thing, despite the fact that in the larger picture, earth means very little vs. the finality of the Reaper threat. I think that moving the Citadek to earth was merely setting the stage so that the final mission could be called "Priority: Earth".

[SubjectZer0]

Welcome.
 
1. "Why did cerberus attack the Citadel?..."
Unclear. It is unlikely that they could have assumed control on alien forces merely by controlling the Citadel.
I guess that the real answer would depend on how deeply Cerberus and the illusive man were indoctrinated at this point.
 
2. "And when did the illusive man become indoctrinated exactly??..."
Another good question. The illusive man got his cool eyes from a reaper artifact that tried to turn him into a husk way back in the story before cerberus became a thing (in a graphic novel that I can't remember its name right now) but got interrupted by certain events that occurred. Was he somewhat influenced even this far back? Could be. Hard to say.
 
3. "Also WHY did the Reapers move the Citadel above earth? What was the point of that??"
ME3 was not very subtle with the whole "save earth" thing, despite the fact that in the larger picture, earth means very little vs. the finality of the Reaper threat. I think that moving the Citadek to earth was merely setting the stage so that the final mission could be called "Priority: Earth".

I thought that the illusive man and Cerberus were just pretending to help Udina but really, they're indoctrinated by the Reapers and the Reapers are using them to kill the council but now I'm not sure he was indoctrinated at this point, or maybe he was only partially indoctrinated?? So confusing!

I can't remember the name of the graphic novel you're talking about either but I've heard about it and I know it's about TIM and the first contact war, really need to check it out. I've heard he comes into contact with Reaper tech and some people think THAT'S when he started to become indoctrinated but I'm not sure.

And wow your explanation for the Citadel being move to earth made more sense than anything said in the game because well it was never explained WHY in the game lol. I hated that so much of the focus was on earth. Yeah, Shepard is a human and humans are from earth but Shepard's closest friends are aliens. You can become boyfriend or girlfriend with aliens so I can't see Shepard being all about earth when the whole entire galaxy is at risk.

I wish the game could have explained exactly why cerberus helped Udina-were they doing it because they wanted to protect earth, and the way cerberus believes humans are better than everyone, that would make sense OR were they already indoctrinated at this point and the Reapers had other plans?

Anyway thank you!

[themikefest]

Why did cerberus attack the Citadel??

Not sure about that. I would've had Thessia and the coup missions switched that way it would make sense for Cerberus to attack the Citadel
 

Udina was desperate for help for earth and wanted to take power to order all the fleets there and he asked cerberus for help, but is that what Cerberus wanted or were they just trying to kill the council for another reason?

Its possible. He was frustrated that more wasn't being done to help with Earth. He probably turned to Cerberus out of desperation hoping it would help. Of course had that actually happened, the fleets wouldn't of stood any chance against the reapers at that time.
 

And when did the illusive man become indoctrinated exactly??

I would say shortly after coming in contact with the remains of the human reaper larvae or at least showing signs of being indoctrinated

Is he indoctrinated at the start of the game?

Possible. He is completed indoctrinated when he is seen on the Citadel
 

Also WHY did the Reapers move the Citadel above earth? What was the point of that??

They wanted to protect it. If they wanted to do that, just take control of the Citadel in the Serpent Nebula and have reapers surround it

[SuperJogi]

By all rights it should be. It's all about kinetic energy, and especially the bigger ship have guns that are measured in kilotons or megatons.

 

And there you couldn't be more wrong.

 

Physics incoming...

 

A MEU Dreadnought fires a slug with a mass m of 20kg at a velocity v(0) of 4000km/s. Let's assume for the sake of simplicity, that the slug is a simple sphere. Tungsten Carbide has a density of 15.6 g/cm³ meaning that a 20kg sphere would have a radius of about 6.74 cm and crosssection A of 142.7 cm². Let us also for simplicty assume that the earths atmosphere 50 km thick with a uniform density p of 1.275 kg/m³ (density of air at 0°C). A sphere of that size traveling at 4000km/s through air has a reynolds number of 3.763x10¹⁰, which results in a drag coefficient C of about 0.2. Using the drag equation F=(1/2)pCAv² we can define the drag force as F=-kv² with k=(1/2)pCA=0.001819425. Since F=ma we can calculate the (negative) accelaration a using a=-(k/m)v² . We can now calculate the velocity v at any point in time using the non-linear differential equation dv/dt=-(k/m)v² .

 

Some math later... (for those interested: velocity and position)

 

Results:

When the slug enters the atmosphere at t(0)=0 and x(0)=-50000 it encounters a drag force of almost 30 billion Newton!

After 30 milliseconds, the slug has already lost over 99% of it's kinetic energy.

The projectile hits the ground at x=0 after 257 milliseconds with a velocity of 42.3 km/s and a kinetic energy of 18 billion Joule, which is about 4.3 tons of TNT equivalent.  That means that the slug has about the same energy as a large conventional bomb, however almost all of that energy will be absorbed by the ground resulting in minimal shrapnel and blast.

 

Conclusion:

The main guns of MEU ships are not very effective weapons for orbital bombardment. They do have enough energy to destroy vehicles, buildings and bunkers if hit directly, however when it comes area of effect, they are considerably outperformed by conventional explosives. Since they lose over 99% of their energy in the stratosphere, they would create a fairly impressive shockwave that would probably shatter windows several dozen kilometers around the target. Actual damage however, would be minimal and destruction is limited to the small area directly hit.

When it comes to orbital bombardment of targets in atmosphere, MEU weapons have more bark than bang. Quite literally.

 

(I never thought I'd do non-linear differencial equations for a forum post. I've spent way too much time on this.)

[Silvair]

Are Reapers even aware of the Genophage?  You'd think they would just reinstall a more advanced variant to the krogan, or get the idea, to apply a similar plague to all other species.

 

Guess that can be chalked up to their typically linear train of thought preventing them from deviating from the regular routine, or thinking outside the box.

[Laughing_Man]

And there you couldn't be more wrong.

 

Physics incoming...

 

A MEU Dreadnought fires a slug with a mass m of 20kg at a velocity v(0) of 4000km/s. Let's assume for the sake of simplicity, that the slug is a simple sphere. Tungsten Carbide has a density of 15.6 g/cm³ meaning that a 20kg sphere would have a radius of about 6.74 cm and crosssection A of 142.7 cm². Let us also for simplicty assume that the earths atmosphere 50 km thick with a uniform density p of 1.275 kg/m³ (density of air at 0°C). A sphere of that size traveling at 4000km/s through air has a reynolds number of 3.763x10¹⁰, which results in a drag coefficient C of about 0.2. Using the drag equation F=(1/2)pCAv² we can define the drag force as F=-kv² with k=(1/2)pCA=0.001819425. Since F=ma we can calculate the (negative) accelaration a using a=-(k/m)v² . We can now calculate the velocity v at any point in time using the non-linear differential equation dv/dt=-(k/m)v² .

 

Some math later... (for those interested: velocity and position)

 

Results:

When the slug enters the atmosphere at t(0)=0 and x(0)=-50000 it encounters a drag force of almost 30 billion Newton!

After 30 milliseconds, the slug has already lost over 99% of it's kinetic energy.

The projectile hits the ground at x=0 after 257 milliseconds with a velocity of 42.3 km/s and a kinetic energy of 18 billion Joule, which is about 4.3 tons of TNT equivalent.  That means that the slug has about the same energy as a large conventional bomb, however almost all of that energy will be absorbed by the ground resulting in minimal shrapnel and blast.

 

Conclusion:

The main guns of MEU ships are not very effective weapons for orbital bombardment. They do have enough energy to destroy vehicles, buildings and bunkers if hit directly, however when it comes area of effect, they are considerably outperformed by conventional explosives. Since they lose over 99% of their energy in the stratosphere, they would create a fairly impressive shockwave that would probably shatter windows several dozen kilometers around the target. Actual damage however, would be minimal and destruction is limited to the small area directly hit.

When it comes to orbital bombardment of targets in atmosphere, MEU weapons have more bark than bang. Quite literally.

 

(I never thought I'd do non-linear differencial equations for a forum post. I've spent way too much time on this.)

 

I appreciate the work you put into it, even if I didn't follow the entire thing.

 

What about real life concepts of kinetic bombardments? Specifically those telephone poles from space?