1395 réponses à ce sujet

[KrrKs]

Amazing how such a sophisticated program is fully compatible with two different computer systems separated by tens of thousands of years and developed by completely different species

 

Considering how important prothean tech is for the current galactic societies and for how long they have seen and worked with the devices: I'd say it makes sense that someone came up with a compatible system.

 

Judging from what we have seen on the Cerberus base, Vendetta probably runs on a java virtual machine, embedded as extension to TIM's extranet browser...

[gothpunkboy89]

Considering how important prothean tech is for the current galactic societies and for how long they have seen and worked with the devices: I'd say it makes sense that someone came up with a compatible system.

 

Judging from what we have seen on the Cerberus base, Vendetta probably runs on a java virtual machine, embedded as extension to TIM's extranet browser...

 

 

Well human tech is based on prothean tech which is in turn based on reaper tech.

 

So similarities will exist.

[Fixers0]

I'm Surprised I've brought up this earlier but the Normandy lockdown scene that occurs in ME1 after completing all four plot makes no sense at all and is in my opinion the weakest part of he game. My primary gripe with it is that it relies on many (incorrect) assumptions that logical person simple could make. Let's just go over them right now:

 

1. The Turian councillor says Shepard belives that Saren will attack the Citadel. However Shepard only learns of Saren's intetion to mount an attack on the Citadel when conversing with Vigil on Ilos, which obviously only happens after the Normandy has left the Citadel. Prior to that Shepard knows little of Saren's exact course of action, other than finding the Conduit which is hidden on Ilos.

 

2. Udina says Saren's greatest weapon was secrecy, and that exposed he is no longer a threat. Arguably the most blatent plothole in the scene, If this was truly then why did Udina put so much effort into making the Shepard a Spectre. Saren was already exposed after Tali's evidence was presented yet it was Udina insisted into making Shepard a Spectre so that he could deal with Saren, once again this is the most nonsensical stament of the scen and can only be taking seriously if Udina was blatently lying at this point.

 

3. Udina says Shepard's becoming more trouble then s/he's worth. Udina doesn't provide us with any evidence to back up his claims, He appearantly just says this to get rid of Shepard. Yet Shepard was doing fine up until this point and I don't see any particular motive as to Udina wants to get rid of Shepard as a Spectre, Shepard has been helping humanity and the Alliance (remember all those messages from Hackett) from the he was made Spectre and there is no reason why Udina would want Shepard out of the way.

 

4. Udina orders the lock down of the Normandy. This aspect makes no sense for two reason: 1. A civil ambassador has no authority to instruct a foreign police force (C-Sec) to lock down a military naval vessel. Either the Council should ordered the Lockdown themselves or the Alliance military Should have disabled their own vessel. 2. Shepard's a Spectre and therefore can ignore the instruction of any civil or military authority other than the Council itself.

 

The only way this sense makes any sense is if Udina and the Council had been conspiring from the beginning to lock Shepard down after dealing enough damage to Saren and the Geth and were blatently lying to Shepard when they made these statements.

 

This scene could have been easily fixed by just having the council thanking Shepard for his efforts against Saren but stating that his part in this fight is over and that the Military is taking over now. Admiral Mikhailovich shows up and the Normandy is formaly turned over the Alliance and will depart for Arcutrus with a few hours. The rest of the game can then proceed mostly as is. 

[KrrKs]

I concur for the most part, just some minor things:

 

3. Udina says Shepard's becoming more trouble then s/he's worth. Udina doesn't provide us with any evidence to back up his claims [...]

Udina has a 'not amused' remark after every main mission about how Shepard's actions of [destroying Prothean ruins/ bombing a BinHex institute/ disrupting Exogeni operations] are somehow totally bad and unjustified and whatnot.

 

>>4. Udina orders the lock down of the Normandy. This aspect makes no sense for two reason: 1. A civil ambassador has no authority to instruct a foreign police force (C-Sec) to lock down a military naval vessel. Either the Council should ordered the Lockdown themselves or the Alliance military Should have disabled their own vessel. 2. Shepard's a Spectre and therefore can ignore the instruction of any civil or military authority other than the Council itself.<<

 

1.) Udina is the System Alliance's ambassador to the citadel. We actually don't know if that is a completely civilian post, or to what extend that post incorporates authority over alliance military. It is also possible that C-sec simply doesn't care about any of that.

2.) While Shepard is a Spectre, the ship and crew are still alliance. It is enough to ground them, Shepard would then need to find another way to travel.

[Iakus]

 

2. Udina says Saren's greatest weapon was secrecy, and that exposed he is no longer a threat. Arguably the most blatent plothole in the scene, If this was truly then why did Udina put so much effort into making the Shepard a Spectre. Saren was already exposed after Tali's evidence was presented yet it was Udina insisted into making Shepard a Spectre so that he could deal with Saren, once again this is the most nonsensical stament of the scen and can only be taking seriously if Udina was blatently lying at this point.

 

Udina wanted a human Spectre.  And Shepard was already being groomed for the position even before all this happened (the opening scene with Anderson, Hackett and Udina going through Shepard's file as well as Nihlus being on board).  Udina may not believe Saren was all that big a threat, but he was willing to capitalize on the situation to push humanity's agenda.

 

Never let a crisis go to waste. 

[SuperJogi]

1.) Udina is the System Alliance's ambassador to the citadel. We actually don't know if that is a completely civilian post, or to what extend that post incorporates authority over alliance military. It is also possible that C-sec simply doesn't care about any of that.

 

Also, Udina is pretty much exactly the kind of guy who would have no problem overstepping his authority if it means he gets what he wants.

[Fixers0]

1.) Udina is the System Alliance's ambassador to the citadel. We actually don't know if that is a completely civilian post, or to what extend that post incorporates authority over alliance military. It is also possible that C-sec simply doesn't care about any of that.

2.) While Shepard is a Spectre, the ship and crew are still alliance. It is enough to ground them, Shepard would then need to find another way to travel.

 

1. That's the point, We're told Udina issued the lockdown order to Citadel Control but I don't think that Udina as a simple ambassador has any authority over Citadel Control, That would be like the German ambassador to France calling air traffic control of the Charle de Gaulle airport and asking for a plane to be grounded.

 

2. Yet Shepard could have practically just walked over to Citadel Control and asked them to lift the lockdown per his/her Spectre Authority. After all the Crew had no problem following Shepard once the lockdown was lifted.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Also while we're given this impression that Spectres are above the law, I hardly doubt that there is no command structure within the Office of Special Tactics and Reconnaissance. The branch answers to the Council. Shepard would have a supervisor whom we never meet because of "video game hero." This was seriously lacking. Shepard needed some Spectre Captain with high blood pressure yelling and screaming at him/her after every mission. You know like in those buddy cop films of the 1990s. This person could have ordered the lockout of the Normandy. 

 

In reality, while it's fun being a cowboy cop in space blowing up stuff, it's totally unrealistic given the state of the galaxy at the time. We get to see how badly the story is written. ME1 has more holes than a wheel of Swiss cheese.

[Iakus]

Also while we're given this impression that Spectres are above the law, I hardly doubt that there is no command structure within the Office of Special Tactics and Reconnaissance. The branch answers to the Council. Shepard would have a supervisor whom we never meet because of "video game hero." This was seriously lacking. Shepard needed some Spectre Captain with high blood pressure yelling and screaming at him/her after every mission. You know like in those buddy cop films of the 1990s. This person could have ordered the lockout of the Normandy. 

 

A volus.  Like Blasto had!

 

"The vorcha have :gasp: diplomatic immunity!"

"This one does not intend to be diplomatic"

[SuperJogi]

Also while we're given this impression that Spectres are above the law, I hardly doubt that there is no command structure within the Office of Special Tactics and Reconnaissance. The branch answers to the Council. Shepard would have a supervisor whom we never meet because of "video game hero." This was seriously lacking. Shepard needed some Spectre Captain with high blood pressure yelling and screaming at him/her after every mission. You know like in those buddy cop films of the 1990s. This person could have ordered the lockout of the Normandy. 

 

In reality, while it's fun being a cowboy cop in space blowing up stuff, it's totally unrealistic given the state of the galaxy at the time. We get to see how badly the story is written. ME1 has more holes than a wheel of Swiss cheese.

 

Also, the fact that agents are allowed to travel through the galaxy and just recruit whoever they want is another perfect example for "video-game logic".

In reality, the SPECTRE organization would try to recruit the most skilled people themselves and then make them aviable as assets for their agents to use when needed. Letting the agents just take whoever on probably top secret missions whithout an intensive security screening and a legally binding contract, is just asking for security leaks and infiltration. Technicly, after the death of shepard, there would have been nothing from preventing the non-alliance crew from just posting every single mission detail on space-facebook.

[Fixers0]

Also while we're given this impression that Spectres are above the law, I hardly doubt that there is no command structure within the Office of Special Tactics and Reconnaissance. The branch answers to the Council. Shepard would have a supervisor whom we never meet because of "video game hero." This was seriously lacking. Shepard needed some Spectre Captain with high blood pressure yelling and screaming at him/her after every mission. You know like in those buddy cop films of the 1990s. This person could have ordered the lockout of the Normandy. 

 

Funny enough, you can actually ask Anderson in ME1 what kind of Command Structure the Spectres have right after the first Council meeting.  Anderson replies that there is no command structure and that every Spectre only anwsers to the Council itself.

 

But yeahm the games do really strugle in explaning into what Spectre's actually are. One time we're told they're top-covert operatives and next somebody says they're some of the most (in)famous people in the galaxy, with their adventures well known by the public.

[KrrKs]

1. That's the point, We're told Udina issued the lockdown order to Citadel Control but I don't think that Udina as a simple ambassador has any authority over Citadel Control

Maybe not over all Citadel Control, but at least over the dock chartered by the alliance.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

There can't be a command structure for the Spectres because of "video game hero." You can't be a video game hero if you have to answer to a supervisor. See in ME2 you got to tell your supervisor to go to hell at the end making you the renegade cowboy cop no matter which choice you made - paragon destroy the base, or renegade save the base.

 

Answering only to the Council..... poorly written. Office of special tactics and reconnaissance. That name implies a bureaucracy. Was Drew K saying the Council didn't have a bureaucracy? lol. This does explain why Shepard had to rely on dumpster diving and corpse looting for credits and buying his/her own gear. It's part of the Role Playing Game mechanics that would make no sense in a novel. Who writes Shepard's paychecks and handles his/her vacation, sick leave, and benefit packages? No one because there aren't any.

 

"I am honored to serve and get my buns shot off for you bunsholes for free."

[Iakus]

 Office of special tactics and reconnaissance. That name implies a bureaucracy. Was Drew K saying the Council didn't have a bureaucracy? lol.  

I think all the name means is "someone really wanted the initials to spell out SPECTRE" 

 

 

 This does explain why Shepard had to rely on dumpster diving and corpse looting for credits and buying his/her own gear.

Still beats TIM making Shepard mine up the d*mn minerals and manufacture the gear himself!

[Callidus Thorn]

Still beats TIM making Shepard mine up the d*mn minerals and manufacture the gear himself!

 

Actually, I disagree. Considering what TIM had already spent resurrecting Shepard and building the SR2, and the fact that his resources are more limited than the Council's, it's a lot easier to justify than the Council being unable to equip a Spectre they're sending on a potentially critical mission to take down a rogue Spectre working with the Geth.

[Dantriges]

TIM is paying you after every mission. Seems the rest of the crew gets a salary and Shep lodging and food, but seems that you are more like a sub contractor. Get some money and do whatever you think is best.

 

I´ve never seen a paycheck from the Council in ME 1. There is probably an administrative structure behind the spectres but seems only the Council can issue commands. Seems the only benefit is the special status. No wonder that quite a lot of these guys have some questionable contacts.

[themikefest]

Still beats TIM making Shepard mine up the d*mn minerals and manufacture the gear himself!

Depending on the playthrough, Shepard doesn't have to mine any planet. I've done that many times with no problem

[Iakus]

Actually, I disagree. Considering what TIM had already spent resurrecting Shepard and building the SR2, and the fact that his resources are more limited than the Council's, it's a lot easier to justify than the Council being unable to equip a Spectre they're sending on a potentially critical mission to take down a rogue Spectre working with the Geth.

Eh giving he was sending Shepard on a suicide mission with substandard equipment and a ship already proven to be not to the challenge of facing the Collectors makes me wonder if Shep wasn't being set up to fail from the start.

[Callidus Thorn]

Eh giving he was sending Shepard on a suicide mission with substandard equipment and a ship already proven to be not to the challenge of facing the Collectors makes me wonder if Shep wasn't being set up to fail from the start.

 

Well, since Shepard had to go jumping around the galaxy to recruit his crew, clearly TIM expected him to show some initiative, rather than micromanaging the mission from start to finish. And in light of what TIM spent in bringing Shepard back, I don't see why he would have wanted Shepard to fail.

[Dantriges]

Considering the amount of money you need to rush build a fleet in secret, the costs of Shep´s ressurection were just pocket change.

[aoibhealfae]

got to love being the 1%er

[Iakus]

Well, since Shepard had to go jumping around the galaxy to recruit his crew, clearly TIM expected him to show some initiative, rather than micromanaging the mission from start to finish. And in light of what TIM spent in bringing Shepard back, I don't see why he would have wanted Shepard to fail.

Well, except TIM tells Shepard who to recruit, doesn't let Shepard investigate the Collectors him/herself, and pretty much uses Shepard as a messenger boy.

 

"Go play with your friends until I need you to walk into an obvious trap." 

 

Edit:  I actually ahd a theory that the Suicide Mission was also a method fro TIM to get rid of potential troublemakers, as everyone on the team has either crossed Cerberus in the past (Zaeed, Kasumi), is a potential threat to the organization (Samara, Thane, Jack), or isn't a "true believer" (Jacob). 

[MrFob]

TIM definitely didn't want Shepard to fail. He wanted to use the secrets of the collectors for himself and he needed Shepard for that. He does everything to make Shepard succeed even if that means deceiving him/her or going over the corpses of half a colony. He is not a good guy but he definitely didn't work against Shepard in ME2.

 

Also, the council does fund Shepard. When you first become a Spectre, you get a crap-load of money (it just shows up in a little box on the side, so maybe you didn't notice). You also get a locker full of new equipment after every main mission (or was it when reaching certain levels, I forget). Technically, the identities of Spectres are supposed to be secret (although Shepard, being the first human Spectre is an exception of course). So it's no surprise that they don't get a monthly pay check. There are probably less than 100 of them (according to Anderon's Alliance estimates in ME1), which also explains why they do not have or need a command structure.

There is no earth equivalent for such a group today that I know of but that doesn't make it unfeasible, especially in the "wild frontier" scenario that at least Revelations and ME1 portrayed. Is it completely realistic? Probably not but within the ME universe, where not everything has to be completely realistic (because it's the future), it makes enough sense to me.

[themikefest]

Well, except TIM tells Shepard who to recruit, doesn't let Shepard investigate the Collectors him/herself, and pretty much uses Shepard as a messenger boy.

He suggests who to recruit. Shepard is forced to have 5 no matter what. The other 7 is up to him/her to recruit or not. Of course 8 are needed to go through the relay.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

The US Marshall's Service back in the 19th Century pretty much covers the way the Spectres operate. I find the idea in the 22nd century a bit ridiculous, but again this wasn't set up for a set of novels or as a sci-fi TV series. It was set up as a video game supported by novels. In a video game you really don't want a tight command structure. In a RPG you want it to be a total power trip for the player otherwise they leave unsatisfied. Note what happened when the ending took away that power trip and you had to do something imposed upon you by an outside force, or you could stick by the principles of freedom and watch the galaxy burn.

 

In a video game universe, shooting bad guys is the goal. Game play is #1. How the player feels after a mission is #2. Story is somewhere around #3 to 5 on the list.

 

But back to The Illusive Man. The Illusive Man wanted Collector Tech at all costs. He wanted to destroy the Collectors. If Shepard fails, he fails. Shepard was the one who assumed he wanted to destroy everything that the Collectors had. So he contacts Shepard at the end and tells her that there is a way to destroy the Collectors but save the technology and study it. Logically this would be the best choice. At this point, even Shepard is part Collector tech - that skin weave tech taken from the Collector corpse on Horizon. But the paragon choice "I will not let fear compromise who I am" is totally emotional. 

 

*******

 

One thing that came up in another thread. Xen's miracle invention of Ladar Jamming. Her little "flash bang". A little Google search I did a couple days ago about Ladar countermeasures showed me a patent for an active Ladar jammer dated 1992. I have difficulty believing that the Quarians had interstellar flight, developed synthetics, and didn't have a Ladar jammer going back about 400 years in their technological history. A simple extranet search surely would have found one among the Asari, Turian, Salarian, or Volus online electronic stores. They could have used these during the Morning War! 

 

But instead, they finally discovered this miracle weapon invented on Earth in 1992,.... er invented by Admiral Xen in 2186, mounted it on their ships and plowed through all the Geth with it.... until the reaper signal stopped them. Now here's another goodie. How would the reaper signal even affect a Ladar countermeasure? The reaper signal imbued the Geth with more space magic than the Quarians had until Commander Shepard arrived with his/her share of space magic. That's how.