1395 réponses à ce sujet

[gothpunkboy89]

The US Marshall's Service back in the 19th Century pretty much covers the way the Spectres operate. I find the idea in the 22nd century a bit ridiculous, but again this wasn't set up for a set of novels or as a sci-fi TV series. It was set up as a video game supported by novels. In a video game you really don't want a tight command structure. In a RPG you want it to be a total power trip for the player otherwise they leave unsatisfied. Note what happened when the ending took away that power trip and you had to do something imposed upon you by an outside force, or you could stick by the principles of freedom and watch the galaxy burn.

 

In a video game universe, shooting bad guys is the goal. Game play is #1. How the player feels after a mission is #2. Story is somewhere around #3 to 5 on the list.

 

But back to The Illusive Man. The Illusive Man wanted Collector Tech at all costs. He wanted to destroy the Collectors. If Shepard fails, he fails. Shepard was the one who assumed he wanted to destroy everything that the Collectors had. So he contacts Shepard at the end and tells her that there is a way to destroy the Collectors but save the technology and study it. Logically this would be the best choice. At this point, even Shepard is part Collector tech - that skin weave tech taken from the Collector corpse on Horizon. But the paragon choice "I will not let fear compromise who I am" is totally emotional. 

 

*******

 

One thing that came up in another thread. Xen's miracle invention of Ladar Jamming. Her little "flash bang". A little Google search I did a couple days ago about Ladar countermeasures showed me a patent for an active Ladar jammer dated 1992. I have difficulty believing that the Quarians had interstellar flight, developed synthetics, and didn't have a Ladar jammer going back about 400 years in their technological history. A simple extranet search surely would have found one among the Asari, Turian, Salarian, or Volus online electronic stores. They could have used these during the Morning War! 

 

But instead, they finally discovered this miracle weapon invented on Earth in 1992,.... er invented by Admiral Xen in 2186, mounted it on their ships and plowed through all the Geth with it.... until the reaper signal stopped them. Now here's another goodie. How would the reaper signal even affect a Ladar countermeasure? The reaper signal imbued the Geth with more space magic than the Quarians had until Commander Shepard arrived with his/her share of space magic. That's how.

 

They inventing the first gun in 1500's or so. Yet here we are in the far future still using the same basic set up.

 

They inventing armor capable of stopping projectiles in the BE era yet here we are still using the same basic technology.

 

You relly seem to ignore that just because something existed before doesn't mean it can't or won't be improved on. Case in point the atomic bomb drop on Japan. The current bombs the US has would make that one look like a camp fire.

 

Or simply in game the anti missile systems used on 90% of ships is an infrared laser. Geth and a few Salarian ships use ultraviolet ones. Which is a major step up in stopping ability. Yet are the exact same thing.

[KrrKs]

Except that Ladar is a specific method for distance and speed measurements.

So the ways to jam it are just as specific (May be dependant on actual wavelength used and necessary energy at receiver).

 

(I just assume that the reaper signal incorporates improved .jpeg compression algorithms for the geth's shipboard 3 gigapixel cameras.)

[gothpunkboy89]

Except that Ladar is a specific method for distance and speed measurements.

So the ways to jam it are just as specific (May be dependant on actual wavelength used and necessary energy at receiver).

 

(I just assume that the reaper signal incorporates improved .jpeg compression algorithms for the geth's shipboard 3 gigapixel cameras.)

 

Yes a specific method that is entirely dependent on finding the specific wave length the Geth use to be able to effectively confuse it.  The fact is that Geth could use multiple wave lengths as well which would make it harder to pinpoint them all. You think you have it use it and it is rendered ineffective thanks to the secondary they use. So you scrap it and try a new one.  Not realizing that it worked at least partially. Taking time to figure out exact wave length(s) needed to effectively flash bang them would take a while.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

They inventing the first gun in 1500's or so. Yet here we are in the far future still using the same basic set up.

 

They inventing armor capable of stopping projectiles in the BE era yet here we are still using the same basic technology.

 

You relly seem to ignore that just because something existed before doesn't mean it can't or won't be improved on. Case in point the atomic bomb drop on Japan. The current bombs the US has would make that one look like a camp fire.

 

Or simply in game the anti missile systems used on 90% of ships is an infrared laser. Geth and a few Salarian ships use ultraviolet ones. Which is a major step up in stopping ability. Yet are the exact same thing.

 

It is also shown that infrared laser doesn't have enough energy to have destructive power, hence it has been used for LOS communication since 1960. Ultraviolet laser has been used for industrial cutting since the 1990s. And the United States will be commissioning a destroyer in the next couple of years with an ultraviolet laser anti-missile system! Why UV and not IR? Because IR is ineffective. The weapon is being tested.

 

So why aren't UV lasers on all of the Council ships for anti-missile systems? Because the writers didn't bother looking up this stuff and wanted to give the Salarians and the Geth a tech edge in this department. It had nothing to do with getting the science right.

[Iakus]

It is also shown that infrared laser doesn't have enough energy to have destructive power, hence it has been used for LOS communication since 1960. Ultraviolet laser has been used for industrial cutting since the 1990s. And the United States will be commissioning a destroyer in the next couple of years with an ultraviolet laser anti-missile system! Why UV and not IR? Because IR is ineffective. The weapon is being tested.

 

So why aren't UV lasers on all of the Council ships for anti-missile systems? Because the writers didn't bother looking up this stuff and wanted to give the Salarians and the Geth a tech edge in this department. It had nothing to do with getting the science right.

Heck if the Council could get infrared lasers as powerful as the GARDIAN, imagine what they could have done with ultraviolet!

 

The Reapers would have been curb-stomped as soon as they poked their tentacles into the galaxy!

[Iakus]

He suggests who to recruit. Shepard is forced to have 5 no matter what. The other 7 is up to him/her to recruit or not. Of course 8 are needed to go through the relay.

Yeah but you can't go to Aria for recommendations, or the Spectre office.  Can't ask for Zaeed or Mordin or Anderson to find you somebody.  The only two people you can recruit that TIM doesn't recommend (Grunt and Legion) almost literally fall into your lap.

[Callidus Thorn]

Yeah but you can't go to Aria for recommendations, or the Spectre office.  Can't ask for Zaeed or Mordin or Anderson to find you somebody.  The only two people you can recruit that TIM doesn't recommend (Grunt and Legion) almost literally fall into your lap.

 

Well, since you're now working with Cerberus, neither the Alliance nor the Council wants to appear to be helping you, so that rules Anderson and the Spectres out. Anyone else requires recruiting from TIM's list, and if you've started doing that, you're basically wasting time to see if they can find you someone who's a better choice. Considering TIM seems to have a better idea of what's involved than Shepard is provided with, he's going to be better at finding help.

[themikefest]

Heck if the Council could get infrared lasers as powerful as the GARDIAN, imagine what they could have done with ultraviolet!

 

The Reapers would have been curb-stomped as soon as they poked their tentacles into the galaxy!

No.

 

Yeah but you can't go to Aria for recommendations, or the Spectre office.  Can't ask for Zaeed or Mordin or Anderson to find you somebody.  The only two people you can recruit that TIM doesn't recommend (Grunt and Legion) almost literally fall into your lap.

Why would I want to go to Aria for any recommendations? All I want from her is information to get Archangel and Mordin Solus. Zaeed might know someone that he can trust enough that could help.

 

Help from Anderson? Hahahahahahahaha. He told Shepard it was up to him/her to stop the reapers. So much for him helping.

[Iakus]

Well, since you're now working with Cerberus, neither the Alliance nor the Council wants to appear to be helping you, so that rules Anderson and the Spectres out. Anyone else requires recruiting from TIM's list, and if you've started doing that, you're basically wasting time to see if they can find you someone who's a better choice. Considering TIM seems to have a better idea of what's involved than Shepard is provided with, he's going to be better at finding help.

Except I wasn't talking about the Alliance or the Council, I'm talking about people.  Spectres or individuals Anderson might know.  Or Hackett, given he's willing to send Shepard out on black ops missions into batarian space.  Maybe he can cough up some resources in return?

 

I mean, Spectres are practically expected to work with the underworld to get their job done.  Tela Vasir was muscle for the Shadow Broker!

 

Liara's an information broker with plenty of connections too, for that matter.  

[Iakus]

No.

 

Care to elaborate?  Gardians are infrared lasers which have already been established as being not much good as a weapon.  Yet Gardians are the DEW of choice when it comes to shooting down missiles and fighters in the Mass Effect setting.  How much more could they have done with ultraviolet?

 

 

 

Why would I want to go to Aria for any recommendations? All I want from her is information to get Archangel and Mordin Solus. Zaeed might know someone that he can trust enough that could help.

 

Pirate queen of Omega?  Favor for a favor?  Not my first choice, but seems willing to deal fairly with Shepard.

 

Zaeed is also a perfectly valid source as well.

 

 

Help from Anderson? Hahahahahahahaha. He told Shepard it was up to him/her to stop the reapers. So much for him helping.

Anderson knew Barla Von.  Who knows what other help from the seamy end of the galaxy he may have?

[themikefest]

Care to elaborate?  Gardians are infrared lasers which have already been established as being not much good as a weapon.  Yet Gardians are the DEW of choice when it comes to shooting down missiles and fighters in the Mass Effect setting.  How much more could they have done with ultraviolet?

Reaper numbers. The fleets might be able to destroy more reapers, but they would be overwhelmed by the sheer number of reapers firing back at them

 

What is DEW?
 

Anderson knew Barla Von.  Who knows what other help from the seamy end of the galaxy he may have?

 If he was willing to help in ME2, he would never of made that comment about Shepard being the only one who could stop the reapers.

[Iakus]

Reaper numbers. The fleets might be able to destroy more reapers, but they would be overwhelmed by the sheer number of reapers firing back at them

 

What is DEW?

Well, yeah, but then I was being facetious in commenting that if they could make infrared lasers actually effective as weapons, then something that actually has real-world potential for such would be that much more effective.  Perhaps to the point of being a "superweapon"

 

But yeah, that might be too "conventional" to stop the Reapers 

 

DEW=Directed Energy Weapon. 

 

 

If he was willing to help in ME2, he would never of made that comment about Shepard being the only one who could stop the reapers.

Just because he was unwilling to help doesn't mean he's unable. 

[SuperJogi]

It is also shown that infrared laser doesn't have enough energy to have destructive power, hence it has been used for LOS communication since 1960. Ultraviolet laser has been used for industrial cutting since the 1990s. And the United States will be commissioning a destroyer in the next couple of years with an ultraviolet laser anti-missile system! Why UV and not IR? Because IR is ineffective. The weapon is being tested.

 

Just a small correction:

The problem with infrared isn't that "it doesn't have enough energy". Creating an infrared beam with the same energy densety as an UV one isn't a problem. The reason why UV is still much more effective is that it is absorbed much better by most metals.

More absorbtion = more energy transferred = more destruction

So really, the damage a laser does is dependent on the material of the target that it is hitting. Then of course you also have the advantage that a shorter wavelength has a smaller beam divergence, which gives you a higher effective range.

 

Heck if the Council could get infrared lasers as powerful as the GARDIAN, imagine what they could have done with ultraviolet!

 

The Reapers would have been curb-stomped as soon as they poked their tentacles into the galaxy!

 

In addition to what themikefest already said: We don't really know what kind of (magic) material a reaper hull is made of. So it might very well be the case that lasers are very ineffective against it.

 

DEW=Directed Energy Weapon.

 

God I hate that term, it's so stupid.

Why not call it a photon weapon? Sounds cooler anyway.

[Callidus Thorn]

Except I wasn't talking about the Alliance or the Council, I'm talking about people.  Spectres or individuals Anderson might know.  Or Hackett, given he's willing to send Shepard out on black ops missions into batarian space.  Maybe he can cough up some resources in return?

 

I mean, Spectres are practically expected to work with the underworld to get their job done.  Tela Vasir was muscle for the Shadow Broker!

 

Liara's an information broker with plenty of connections too, for that matter.  

 

And? Anderson is answerable to both The Alliance and the Council, and neither group wants to appear to be aiding Cerberus, which rules Hackett out. As for the Spectres, they're all non-human, so they're not too likely to stick their necks out for Shepard. Remember also that the Council's been downplaying Shepard and the attack on the Citadel, so they've got even less motivation to help Shepard.

 

And there's a huge difference between the underworld, the Shadow Broker, and Cerberus. We know that there are people openly working for the Shadow Broker, like Barla Von, but how many are openly working for Cerberus?

 

Liara seems to be a little too busy with her own thing in ME2, and with what she had in mind would she really give Shepard a lead on someone that could be of use on a suicide mission, if she could find a use for them?

 

And finally, TIM has more info than Shepard, even if it's hunches and unconfirmed suspicions. This means that he's better able to judge who's of use than anyone else that Shepard can encounter. It really is that simple.

[gothpunkboy89]

It is also shown that infrared laser doesn't have enough energy to have destructive power, hence it has been used for LOS communication since 1960. Ultraviolet laser has been used for industrial cutting since the 1990s. And the United States will be commissioning a destroyer in the next couple of years with an ultraviolet laser anti-missile system! Why UV and not IR? Because IR is ineffective. The weapon is being tested.

 

So why aren't UV lasers on all of the Council ships for anti-missile systems? Because the writers didn't bother looking up this stuff and wanted to give the Salarians and the Geth a tech edge in this department. It had nothing to do with getting the science right.

 

 

I repeat to look back at guns and their eveolution from the first ones to modern fire arms and the improvements that have happened since then. Just small things like changing the shape of the bullet. Adding groves in the barrel. All increased how accurate and deadly they are.
 

 

Why is it IR  can't be used? Is it simply because in it's natural state it is low energy? Is is entirely possible to focus it and/or boost power to it?

 

Our laser usage is based on what we can do now. ME universe has advanced tech and energy production capabilities compared to what we have now. It isn't hard at all to picture them in the ME universe taking what we have now and improving on it in every way. Allowing them to do more with it then we are capable of now.  Every technological advancement in the last 2 decades is great example.  You really think that people back in the 50's thought it would be possible to have an entire computer small enough to fit into your hand and do trillions of calculations a second when their fastest super computer took up an entire house and needed whole iceboxes to cool it down?

 

But tell me and show me how there is absolutely no way possible to improve IR beams to be used to disable/destroy missiles or ships that are coming right at it from a continent away.

[SuperJogi]

@gothpunkboy

 

Have you read what I wrote above?
 

Of course you can create an IR beam with enough energy density to destroy stuff, but an UV beam with the same energy would be much more effective because UV light is absorbed better by most materials. Add that to the fact that an UV laser has a smaller beam divergence and you have pretty much no reason to use IR if you have the option to use UV. This is not due to technological limitations, but rather due to the physical properties of photons and their interaction with electrons. And you cannot change those.

 

[JasperOnOriginN7]

Or pull a gun on Conrad Verner.

Or threaten to kill everyone in a C-Sec interogation room and get away clean, because Spectre!

or have Garrus kill SIdonis with a high powered rifle

Or have a gunfight in a clinic!

 

or have bottle shooting contest with Garrus on presidium

[JasperOnOriginN7]

The thing I don't get is how the ranks work in the aliance navy/marines(that also doesn't make sense). You have Ashley who is refered to as Chief in ME1 probably they naval rank of chief petty officer which is the 7th enlistad rank equvilant to Gunnery sergeant in the Marines, but in ME3 she is a lieutenant Commander which is the 4th officer rank, this is were we run into some problems with if they are in the Navy or Marines, in ME3 Kaidan is Major which is the equvilant to Lieutenant Commander in the navy which means that Ashley changed from Enlisted to officer between ME1 and ME3 (BioWare does have some basic rank system put out)

scources:

http://masseffect.wi..._Military_Ranks

http://www.militaryf...arine_ranks.asp

http://www.militaryf.../navy_ranks.asp

[aoibhealfae]

I usually let Ashley die at Virmire so I never have to explain why they speedtrack her rank which only emphasis her uselessness in ME3. 

 

--------

 

 

I think people didn't give enough credits to VS and Anderson's role in convincing the Alliance and the council that Shepard is not another rogue Spectre. Admittedly, still Karpyshynn's fault, but nobody explain why Admiral Hackett completely inexplicably trust Shepard to be who s/he was despite not seeing them until Arrival DLC and why he prevented the Alliance military from attacking Shepard the moment s/he stepped on Omega. Nobody explain Hackett. Why?

[gothpunkboy89]

@gothpunkboy

 

Have you read what I wrote above?
 

Of course you can create an IR beam with enough energy density to destroy stuff, but an UV beam with the same energy would be much more effective because UV light is absorbed better by most materials. Add that to the fact that an UV laser has a smaller beam divergence and you have pretty much no reason to use IR if you have the option to use UV. This is not due to technological limitations, but rather due to the physical properties of photons and their interaction with electrons. And you cannot change those.

 

 

And in game universe explains why.

 

IR beams are used because they are require less energy, produce less heat and less maintenance then UV ones. Even if that is fudging the facts ever so slightly because they would use the same energy, produce the same heat and have the same maintenance. It is over all for the story telling purpose to gives Salarians and Geth at clear set up of Tech edge over the rest of the galaxy that isn't quite as tech obsessed as they are.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

And in game universe explains why.

 

IR beams are used because they are require less energy, produce less heat and less maintenance then UV ones. Even if that is fudging the facts ever so slightly because they would use the same energy, produce the same heat and have the same maintenance. It is over all for the story telling purpose to gives Salarians and Geth at clear set up of Tech edge over the rest of the galaxy that isn't quite as tech obsessed as they are.

 

Which is exactly why they're less effective and less desireable. Methinks that some defense contractor hoodwinked the galactic navies into using IR laser beams instead of UV, and the Salarians didn't buy into it. Military Industrial Complex for the win. And tech obsessed? Try lack of logic.

 

Do you even read what you write? Do you see the bolded blue? That's exactly what I wrote. Mostly for the Geth's tech edge. It's idiocy when it's well known science. And so that the IR GARDIAN lasers would be ineffective against the Reapers. And why was it necessary for the Salarians to have a tech edge in this department when they never did anything with it? 

 

It's the "good is dumb" trope. You can't have your good side be intelligent because it requires quality writing if you do. If you make the protagonist's side dumb as rocks you can dumb down the entire plot and have Anderson tell you he was born in London 4X. You can have "Thanix Missiles" now - WTF? You can have other things that don't make sense like how the hell Shepard survived an orbital bombardment on Rannoch, nevermind that battle on foot with the reaper - oh video game hero. 

 

This is reminding me of the argument I had with my ex-husband not to overfill the water bottles he was putting in the freezer because water expands when it freezes. He didn't believe me. 

[themikefest]

You can have "Thanix Missiles" now - WTF?

Donavan Hock has them. The same missiles seen in Kasumi's mission are the same as the ones used to fire at the reaper in London

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

By all appearances, the Russians have them too.

[SuperJogi]

By all appearances, the Russians have them too.

 

Lolz:

 

The similarity is defenitly there.

But we already know that the soviets were far ahead in technology. They were able to send high tech weapons mods to the moon for shepard to find.

[Lord Snow]

You can have "Thanix Missiles" now - WTF?

 

The Thanix is based on the reaper main gun, the magnetic-hydro-dynamic-canon that fires a stream of molten metal accelerated at high speed. I see no problem with rigging a missile to release a stream like that on impact. A cone shaped anti-tank round does a similar thing - release a stream of molten copper that burns through armor.

 

So not really lore-breaking but since there is no codex entry for the Thanix missile or any sort of in-game explanation i think it's safe to assume they went with "rule of cool" on this one.