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[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Thanix Missile - they went with the rule of cool here by calling it Thanix - And here's the problem with Thanix - 

 

Uranium has a melting point of 1132 C and a boiling point of 4400 C

Tungsten has a melting point of 3422 C

Iron has a melting point of 1538 C and a boiling point of 2862 C

 

All the iron in the mixture would be vaporized. Heating tungsten to its melting point in a conventional explosion is extremely difficult if not impossible. Uranium and iron on the other hand, not that difficult, but then with uranium you have a dirty bomb and might as well use a 1 KT tactical nuke. That area was radioactive afterward anyway.

[Lord Snow]

That's the kind of problem we inevitably encounter when digging to deep into the lore of a third person shooter video game. They obviously never checked the individual melting points of the component metals, just picked heavy elements from the periodic table and put them in. Could have easily left tungsten out if they did, but that's not a level of accuracy I would expect from any video game developer.

 

My point was that if the reapers can use a weapon firing a stream of molten metal and it works in-game, then there is no reason the Alliance can't use something similar on one of their ships (like the SR2) or even rig a missile to work on the same principle.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Picking at the lore in Mass Effect is like picking at a scab. You know you shouldn't, but you just can't stop.

 

And why are we picking at it like this? It is because....

 

Spoiler

 

If it hadn't been for this, we probably would have hand-waved most everything in this thread.

 

[Han Shot First]

Not necessarily something that doesn't make sense within the game world, but something that wouldn't make sense in the real one...

 

There are many times throughout the series where characters salute Shepard, and usually Shepard never salutes them in return. In the real world that would be a major breach of etiquette. Salutes aren't just a sign of respect towards a higher ranked officer, but a two-way exchange. The lower ranked person salutes the higher ranked officer, and that officer than salutes the junior in return. That holds true even if the person initiating the salute is a private fresh from basic training and the person being saluted is the most senior general in that armed service. 

 

Shepard not saluting in return would be sort of like saying, "**** you" in the real world.

[Andrew Lucas]

Not necessarily something that doesn't make sense within the game world, but something that wouldn't make sense in the real one...
 
There are many times throughout the series where characters salute Shepard, and usually Shepard never salutes them in return. In the real world that would be a major breach of etiquette. Salutes aren't just a sign of respect towards a higher ranked officer, but a two-way exchange. The lower ranked person salutes the higher ranked officer, and that officer than salutes the junior in return. That holds true even if the person initiating the salute is a private fresh from basic training and the person being saluted is the most senior general in that armed service. 
 
Shepard not saluting in return would be sort of like saying, "**** you" in the real world.

You know that's Shep in a nutshell, Han.

[themikefest]

Not necessarily something that doesn't make sense within the game world, but something that wouldn't make sense in the real one...

 

There are many times throughout the series where characters salute Shepard, and usually Shepard never salutes them in return. In the real world that would be a major breach of etiquette. Salutes aren't just a sign of respect towards a higher ranked officer, but a two-way exchange. The lower ranked person salutes the higher ranked officer, and that officer than salutes the junior in return. That holds true even if the person initiating the salute is a private fresh from basic training and the person being saluted is the most senior general in that armed service. 

 

Shepard not saluting in return would be sort of like saying, "**** you" in the real world.

Just to add to that. Someone may not like the person, but they have to respect the rank and uniform.

 

That and other things  I like to see fixed in the next game, if the main character is military. I still find it funny they call Traynor a specialist when there is no such rank in the Alliance. They should've made her an LT. Shepard even mentions to Traynor she's a good officer. Last I checked, a specialist is an E-4, the same rank as a Corporal, which means enlisted

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

They should have made Traynor a military contractor with top secret clearance but no rank. Then there would have been no fraternization issues. 

 

Also with 4 years between the games and probably many new players, and a lot of old players leaving (I'll never buy another one because of the ending) perhaps they can redo the military ranks to make some sense. It was quite obvious that the person who wrote them didn't even bother to use google.

[Iakus]

I usually let Ashley die at Virmire so I never have to explain why they speedtrack her rank which only emphasis her uselessness in ME3. 

 

I mentally edit out the "Commander" part of her rank and pretend she's just a Lieutenant

[Han Shot First]

Just to add to that. Someone may not like the person, but they have to respect the rank and uniform.

 

That and other things  I like to see fixed in the next game, if the main character is military. I still find it funny they call Traynor a specialist when there is no such rank in the Alliance. They should've made her an LT. Shepard even mentions to Traynor she's a good officer. Last I checked, a specialist is an E-4, the same rank as a Corporal, which means enlisted

 

I liked that Traynor was *maybe* enlisted. As you said the Specialist rank in the real world is an enlisted one, but Shepard refers to Traynor as an officer. So its a bit confusing.

 

If ME:A is set on another military ship I hope some of the characters are enlisted, otherwise it starts to feel like Too Many Chiefs, Not Enough Indians. I think part of the issue  also is that many writers probably have the misconception that all people in a supervisory role in the military are officers, when in truth the majority of military personnel that are the equivalent of supervisors or managers in the corporate world are actually NCOs (Corporals, Sergeants, ect) and enlisted.

 

That's another reason to mourn the loss of Chris L'Etoile. He made Ashley a Staff NCO instead of an officer. Of course once he left someone decided that Gunnery Chief wasn't good enough and she had to make the nonsensical leap to LCDR. 

[gothpunkboy89]

Picking at the lore in Mass Effect is like picking at a scab. You know you shouldn't, but you just can't stop.

 

And why are we picking at it like this? It is because....

 

Spoiler

 

If it hadn't been for this, we probably would have hand-waved most everything in this thread.

 

 

Picking apart the Lore of any game or movie follows the same logic.  Star Wars and Star Trek are two of the most popular series out there and just scratching the surface of their lore and it starts to fall apart.

 

And we all know the Shep lives at the end was added in purely because fans wanted it to be added in. Harmless fan service to please some players.  We all know he really died at the end. No way as injured as he was could he survive the beam firing.

[aoibhealfae]

I mentally edit out the "Commander" part of her rank and pretend she's just a Lieutenant

 

Unfortunately, almost everyone refer her as "Lieutenant Commander" rather than Lieutenant, so...

 

But I could canon-ed Vegas as a Lieutenant Commander which was the rank he was promoted in Paragon Lost.

 

---

 

Btw, why Kaidan's Major rank was equivalent to Lieutenant Commander? He was already a Staff Commander in ME2.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Picking apart the Lore of any game or movie follows the same logic.  Star Wars and Star Trek are two of the most popular series out there and just scratching the surface of their lore and it starts to fall apart.

 

And we all know the Shep lives at the end was added in purely because fans wanted it to be added in. Harmless fan service to please some players.  We all know he really died at the end. No way as injured as he was could he survive the beam firing.

 

You missed the point - it was the ending in general. The total disconnect from the rest of the story. It also was the end of the Mass Effect Universe in all three choices. Releasing the energy of the crucible will destroy the mass relays. Were you around on March 12, 2012? The ending left nothing but questions. How would everyone make it home? How long would that take? We saw what happens when a relay was destroyed. Where was that jungle world? Was anyone else even alive? 

 

And to answer your other comment, if you had the iOS app on your iPhone and chose high EMS destroy you were supposed to receive a text message that your love interest was hoping to see you in the intensive care unit. Of course the app no longer works. So the intent was for Shepard to survive the blast because.... video game hero. Again it doesn't make sense. 

 

All the endings were the same except for the color of the explosions on your screen: you die, the relays were destroyed, and the Normandy crashed.

 

That's why we're picking at this scab.

[gothpunkboy89]

You missed the point - it was the ending in general. The total disconnect from the rest of the story. It also was the end of the Mass Effect Universe in all three choices. Releasing the energy of the crucible will destroy the mass relays. Were you around on March 12, 2012? The ending left nothing but questions. How would everyone make it home? How long would that take? We saw what happens when a relay was destroyed. Where was that jungle world? Was anyone else even alive? 

 

And to answer your other comment, if you had the iOS app on your iPhone and chose high EMS destroy you were supposed to receive a text message that your love interest was hoping to see you in the intensive care unit. Of course the app no longer works. So the intent was for Shepard to survive the blast because.... video game hero. Again it doesn't make sense. 

 

All the endings were the same except for the color of the explosions on your screen: you die, the relays were destroyed, and the Normandy crashed.

 

That's why we're picking at this scab.

 

 

If your only reply is going by vanilla ending rather then extended cut ending. Which was created specifically to correct some of those issues. You don't have much to stand on. 

 

And again players wanted Shep to survive some how. Because that is how people behave when you have been playing/rooting for someone across multiple games, movies or books. Complaining they did it simply because he is video game hero is kind of asinine. Because by that logic Shepard never should have made it past Eden Prime.  The only reason he survives the first 10 minutes of game play is video game hero logic.  So complaining about it during the final seconds of the 3rd game comes across as very odd. Because if you had such an issue with you you shouldn't have made it past the first 10 minutes of the first game. Hell you shouldn't have made it past the instance Jenkins is killed while you are able to take bullet after bullet and survive to meet Ashley.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Yes, I do have a lot to stand on. See, the overwhelming number of people who played ME3 played the original ending. What was seen cannot be unseen. The problem with the Extended Cut was that to fix the holes made by the original ending they dug a bigger hole - the Normandy rescue scene. Pointless arguing with the Catalyst for the sake of role playing when there was no choice. Then shoe horning in Leviathan to explain the existance of the Catalyst in the first place. Oh that.

 

And bringing up "past Eden Prime" is really reaching. Jenkins' death was cheap. And I don't care about the breath scene. I chose synthesis - this ending has a unicorn farting rainbows. 

 

ME2 Lazarus? That's a huge problem. 

 

EDI says in the synthesis ending about transcending death itself? You already did that in ME2.

 

And yes I have all the DLC for the series. 

[gothpunkboy89]

Yes, I do have a lot to stand on. See, the overwhelming number of people who played ME3 played the original ending. What was seen cannot be unseen. The problem with the Extended Cut was that to fix the holes made by the original ending they dug a bigger hole - the Normandy rescue scene. Pointless arguing with the Catalyst for the sake of role playing when there was no choice. Then shoe horning in Leviathan to explain the existance of the Catalyst in the first place. Oh that.

 

And bringing up "past Eden Prime" is really reaching. Jenkins' death was cheap. And I don't care about the breath scene. I chose synthesis - this ending has a unicorn farting rainbows. 

 

ME2 Lazarus? That's a huge problem. 

 

EDI says in the synthesis ending about transcending death itself? You already did that in ME2.

 

And yes I have all the DLC for the series. 

 

 

It doesn't matter if you have seen the ending without extended cut. They released it and that is now the official ending. They acknowledged the issues and corrected them FREE OF CHARGE. Continuing to harp on the pre changed ending is pointless. You are essentially complaining just to hear/see yourself complain.

 

Nothing is wrong with Normandy rescue scene that hasn't been wrong with the game since the first one.  There is no way the Normady should have reached Ilos. Saren being a Specter would have known about the Normandy stealth ability. By extension Sovereign would have known as well.  Normandy should have appeared from the Relay to have Sovereign sitting there waiting for her. Blowing her out of the sky the same way you would swat a fly.

 

 

There are choices to make. 4 choices actually. The extended discussion with catalyst is for immersion for the players that want to be. Granted the impact varies depending on the player. But I sat rather interested listening to the dialogue they chose to explain the purpose of it's existence and what each choice would represent.

 

Leviathans were clearly thrown into give back story to the Reapers. But they way they did it wasn't that bad. They helped to further explain the Reapers weren't just killing simply because they can and want to.  And really help drive home one of the more often over looked aspect of the game. The sheer unrelenting hypocrisy of advanced intelligent life.  The entire trilogy is based on hypocrisy of advanced intelligent life.

 

No it isn't reaching at all. 3 man squad some how manages to fight their way though what a whole platoon at least died against. For reference that is usually 15-30 soldiers. All killed and the last one is pinned down about to be killed as well. Then Shepard rides up with Kaden and suddenly they manage to slaughter their way though all those geth troops. Disarm all the bombs AND some how survive the activation of the beacon as it shorts out and explodes on him. And that is just the start. Every mission after that is Shepard and crew slaughtering wave after wave of enemies that in cannon killed dozens to hundreds of soldiers before Shepard even shows up. From the very start of the game it operates on the game hero logic.  From the start of the game regardless of how paragon or renegade you play Shepard is an unrelenting juggernaut advancing from planet to planet slaughtering anything that gets in his way. In numbers that would make even Master Chief blush and ask him to slow down a bit. And Master Chief was creates specifically to be an unstoppable juggernaut mass slaughtering anyone who opposes him.

 

And that is just the main story missions. If you start to go onto the side missions his body count triples.

 

You don't transcend death in ME2.  You are brought back from the dead in a plot device related way. But in no way is shepard immortal now. Transcending death doesn't mean coming back from it. It means you have moved onto in some way shape or form the inability to die ever. That is why religious people will some times say when someones dies they transcended their earthly body. Because they now exist as only a soul. The soul can not die and will last forever. Unlike their physical body that has as an expiration date on it from the moment they are conceived.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

You have pointed out several instances of "no way he could have survived that." Okay, I'll go with this. Essentially they killed off Shepard several times:

 

1) Eden Prime - No one could have survived that.

2) The Disney Death at the end of ME1.

3) For real at the beginning of ME2, but brought back Shepard with Lazarus - Resurrected for a Job... but how did the body let alone the brain survive entry into the atmosphere without burning up.... oh never mind.

4) The Disney Death at the end of ME2. Seriously. That unstable platform with heavy crap laying on top of you? Real if you really screwed up because Joker can't haul your sorry butt aboard, but then you can't import into ME3.

5) No One Could Survive That - The Batarian Bartender scene. - Shepard survives the poisoned drink that has killed every single human before her.

6) The Disney Death at the beginning of ME3. - reaper beam kills everyone in the room except Shepard and Anderson. Flying 300 lb table hits Shepard in the head. 

7) Plot Armor - Harbinger's blast during the beam run. No way Shepard should have survived that.

8) And finally up in the Citadel, unless you had high EMS and chose destroy then you get the Disney Death again.

 

There may be more.

[Iakus]

Unfortunately, almost everyone refer her as "Lieutenant Commander" rather than Lieutenant, so...

 

She tends to be called LC a lot too, so I just change teh C to a T

 

And in the Citadel meetups, Shepard actually tells the bartender he's looking for "Lieutenant WIlliams 

[themikefest]

The scene showing Shepard surviving at the end of ME1, I can believe. People have survive earthquakes being buried under rubble for days without  any problems. Yes Shepard wasn't buried under any rubble, but did Shepard have to be? All that debris could easily of missed Shepard. The ending scene shows that it did miss Shepard. Its also possible that Shepard had to climb over that debris, once the dust settled, before she/he was seen.

 

What was messed up about Shepard dying at the end of ME2, it required 2 squadmates to live. Why? It only takes one to help Shepard get into the ship. The other thing is if all squadmates are dead, and only the crew remains, why can't one of them help Shepard?

[Iakus]

 And I don't care about the breath scene. I chose synthesis - this ending has a unicorn farting rainbows. 

 

I prefer MEHEM.  It has a rainbow farting unicorns 

[MrFob]

I prefer MEHEM.  It has a rainbow farting unicorns 

 

Addition for v0.6 confirmed.

 

...maybe

[gothpunkboy89]

You have pointed out several instances of "no way he could have survived that." Okay, I'll go with this. Essentially they killed off Shepard several times:

 

1) Eden Prime - No one could have survived that.

2) The Disney Death at the end of ME1.

3) For real at the beginning of ME2, but brought back Shepard with Lazarus - Resurrected for a Job... but how did the body let alone the brain survive entry into the atmosphere without burning up.... oh never mind.

4) The Disney Death at the end of ME2. Seriously. That unstable platform with heavy crap laying on top of you? Real if you really screwed up because Joker can't haul your sorry butt aboard, but then you can't import into ME3.

5) No One Could Survive That - The Batarian Bartender scene. - Shepard survives the poisoned drink that has killed every single human before her.

6) The Disney Death at the beginning of ME3. - reaper beam kills everyone in the room except Shepard and Anderson. Flying 300 lb table hits Shepard in the head. 

7) Plot Armor - Harbinger's blast during the beam run. No way Shepard should have survived that.

8) And finally up in the Citadel, unless you had high EMS and chose destroy then you get the Disney Death again.

 

There may be more.

 

Which you again miss the point I was making. You were making a fuss about Shepard surviving on high EMS destroy option. Claiming it was game hero logic. So happy to make a complaint about the end of the game. You are out right ignoring how many times they pull that in the start of the game.  If you have issue with that then you should have issue with the entire game. As the entire game trilogy is based on this game hero logic applied to Shepard.

 

The difference is that I don't have issues when they do things like that. Because I know it is ultimately a video game. They are balancing the story they want to tell with what the majority of people will want to see to make sure it sales and is popular. It is a balancing act every major game developer has to walk.  So when they throw in an ending that shows Shepard surviving something they obviously shouldn't be able to survive I don't mind.  Because it was done just to satisfy those players that wanted it.

 

If they were making it without worrying about people liking it and it being popular I bet they would have ended the game as soon as Harbinger blasted Shepard. Showing the Reapers ripping apart the fleets and continuing the harvest. Showing they can't fight the inevitable. That would have been a very great ending for the series. But pretty obviously that ending wouldn't sit well with most players. I don't complain they don't take the bold ending and go more for the endings that let players end it how they want it.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

The scene showing Shepard surviving at the end of ME1, I can believe. People have survive earthquakes being buried under rubble for days without  any problems. Yes Shepard wasn't buried under any rubble, but did Shepard have to be? All that debris could easily of missed Shepard. The ending scene shows that it did miss Shepard. Its also possible that Shepard had to climb over that debris, once the dust settled, before she/he was seen.

 

What was messed up about Shepard dying at the end of ME2, it required 2 squadmates to live. Why? It only takes one to help Shepard get into the ship. The other thing is if all squadmates are dead, and only the crew remains, why can't one of them help Shepard?

 

It was the way it was done. The player was to assume Shepard was dead. Then Shepard walks out of the rubble. That's why it's called "The Disney Death."

 

@gothpunkboy89 - 

 

You know that the beam run... from a cinematic standpoint, the original ending was far superior, right? They never should have inserted the rescue scene in the EC. That was absolutely stupid. Harbinger sent out for fish and chips during the scene or was so moved by the feels that he stopped firing. lol. Of course a real stretch would be EDI trolling him into thinking the Normandy was a reaper and harvesting the organics before taking off for  more lolz. 

 

BTW, I absolutely love the series. I have 1600 hrs logged into it. I have a license to pick at it. The purpose of this thread is not for flame wars. It's for having fun picking at the inconsistencies in the lore. And let's face it. There are a lot of them. 

[gothpunkboy89]

@gothpunkboy89 - 

 

You know that the beam run... from a cinematic standpoint, the original ending was far superior, right? They never should have inserted the rescue scene in the EC. That was absolutely stupid. Harbinger sent out for fish and chips during the scene or was so moved by the feels that he stopped firing. lol. Of course a real stretch would be EDI trolling him into thinking the Normandy was a reaper and harvesting the organics before taking off for  more lolz. 

 

BTW, I absolutely love the series. I have 1600 hrs logged into it. I have a license to pick at it. The purpose of this thread is not for flame wars. It's for having fun picking at the inconsistencies in the lore. And let's face it. There are a lot of them. 

 

For someone who loves the game so much you seem to take what seems to come off to me as enjoyment of picking apart every instance you think doesn't stand up or match up to the logic you think should be applied.  All the while cherry picking issues with parts of the game to complain about.  Usually I've noticed with a lot of people they like to complain about the ending of the game. But seem to ignore the same kind of logic has sprung up multiple times  throughout the trilogy and yet is never complained about.

 

There is pointing out issues the game has. Like why were the M-8 so common when they created a new gun the Falcon I think it was specifically to replace it after the Battle of the Citadel.  Or why don't biotics who can use barriers also use kinetic barriers to take twice the damage.

 

Then there is you who go into a nice little talk about how utterly stupid it is a ladar jammer from 1992 couldn't be used to block the geth's scanners. And how absolutely stupid it is that the Slarians and Geth have UV guardian lasers while everyone else has IR versions.  Continuing with the theme of those species that exist.  Salarians with their near obsession with the latest tech using it even if it hasn't been shown to be as reliable as older versions. Which is actually a fairly decent metaphor for a lot of people now a days.  And the Geth to highlight how much they have managed to evolve and grow on their own.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Because it's fun to pick it apart. 

[Dantriges]

SW and ST fans are picking apart the lore of their franchise, too, for enjoyment, to complain about something or just because it´s fun. Can we go back to nitpicking nonsense now, instead of complaining about the complaining? There are enough threads for that.