It's one of the few missions which requires Shepard to wear a full helmet, so I'm assuming there's some sort of toxins in the air.
Well the wiki entry says that there are toxic gasses in the air that you have to vent. If that's the mission you were talking about.
Before venting the area, try walking down the steps to see what happens. The player will get a critical mission failure screen if he/she doesn't get away quick enough.
It's not the book that breaks continuity, it's that stupid piece of Sovereign in ME3's Leviathan DLC. The book is perfectly in line with the characterization of indoctrination in 99.9% of the games (not to mention that it came out with the first game and established the lore, rather than breaking it).
And yea, as I said, they might have invented shields just before/during ME3 but honestly, in that case - and to keep in line with the bacteria allegory - having a piece of Sovereign sitting in Bryson's lab like a piece of art is kind of like having a Petri dish of Salmonella enterica in your kitchen for fun just because you have discovered antibiotics 6 months earlier.
While it has been a while what lore is is breaking specifically. That says every stray bit of reaper tech. In this case a tiny chunk of Sovergin would induce indoctrination.
The Reaper artifacts left across the galaxy like on those planets in ME1 and 2 are one thing. but a small part of a reaper I don't know.
But after Virmire, Sovereign started to sense Saren's doubts and so Saren allowed himself to be implanted to strengthen his resolve. It's different than The Illusive Man. Saren had been tooling around on Sovereign for two years. The Illusive Man just goes bat**** stupid after careful planning.... Hmmm... reaper nanides turn people into husks that the reapers control.... we're about ready to control reapers.... maybe I should inject myself full of reaper nanides so I become easy for the reapers to control and turn into a husk.
The Illusive Man snatches defeat from the jaws of victory.
Kind of like "Yo dawg.... we heard you were making synthetics, so we made a bunch of synthetics to kill you before you made synthetics that would kill you."
AFAIK, this happens after Lawson tell him that they've been able to isolate and co-opt the reaper control signal and control groups of reaper troops with their Cerberus signal. Lawson mentioned that they were ready to start trials on an controlling an actual reaper if I recall. Lawson was the one working practically hands on with reaper tech, yet it was The Illusive Man who decided to inject himself full of the nanides and putting himself in the middle of reaper central, where the reaper signal was the strongest. This has to be one of the biggest face palms of the story. Yes it can be hand waved by saying "he's indoctrinated". It's one of the cheapest cop outs of the story, and highlights its anti-technology sub-plot.
But Shepard was exposed to Reaper tech just as often as The Illusive Man, had reaper tech in his/her body, and was immune to indoctrination.... unless you believed Indoctrination Theory.
That is just what Saren was suppose to think. That he allowed himself to be implanted to strengthen his resolve. The fact is he got his ass kicked by Shepard and crew so to eliminate Shepard Sovereign upgraded him with the intent to give him the advantage against Shep.
It wasn't a cheap cop out of the story. They were continuing the story of over confidence TIM showed. So sure of his power and so sure he knew best he over reached himself and lead to his downfall. From the Mars Archive you knew TIM would attempt his idea only to see it fail horribly and end in his death. Leaving Shepard to actually finish the fight.
The Shepard even brings up at least in Paragon talks about how controlling a reaper is much different then a husk. And demands to ask if he is willing to bet all of humanity on it. Which is when he really starts to show his doubts and comes to realize he was indoctrinated. Which isn't a surprise because he takes every chunk of the Reaper-Human he can find from the Collector Base. And put it right in the center of his base. 6 months if I remember right between end of ME2 and start of ME3. Plus the many months that pass in game from the start to finish. TIM has more direct constant with Reaper Tech then Shepard does over the course of 3 games. Who's experiences are minutes of time spent in presence of Reaper Tech. Literally just enough time to kill any husks and then leaving.
While it has been a while what lore is is breaking specifically. That says every stray bit of reaper tech. In this case a tiny chunk of Sovergin would induce indoctrination.
The Reaper artifacts left across the galaxy like on those planets in ME1 and 2 are one thing. but a small part of a reaper I don't know.
I am not saying it has to indoctrinate (see my previous post in answer to aoibhealfae), I am saying that it would be stupid to take the risk to put this in a leading scientists office in the middle of the presidium. And apparently when they set it up, they thought it might indoctrinate, hence "the shielding", which didn't yet exist 6 months earlier.
The sheer amount of mind bending, I have to do in order to make this thing sensible in some way within the universe just doesn't justify to put such an irrelevant gimmick in the game IMO.
I am not saying it has to indoctrinate (see my previous post in answer to aoibhealfae), I am saying that it would be stupid to take the risk to put this in a leading scientists office in the middle of the presidium. And apparently when they set it up, they thought it might indoctrinate, hence "the shielding", which didn't yet exist 6 months earlier.
The sheer amount of mind bending, I have to do in order to make this thing sensible in some way within the universe just doesn't justify to put such an irrelevant gimmick in the game IMO.
Well that is the point I'm making. Certain Reaper tech as well as dead Reapers are known to cause indoctrination. I'd wager they were planted specifically by Reapers to activate near the time of he Harvest to create the first wave of soldiers/indoctrinated agents.
A chunk of Reaper isn't known to have the same effects or not so the shielding could just be there for what they think would block it. And since it wouldn't actually have any indoctrination properties they thought it worked. It is also possible that after Shepard returned to the Alliance with the Normandy they took all the information EDI gained both from Cerberus and the Collector Ship. Which lead to the creation of the shielding effect. According to Codex which is the start of in game knowledge not the first and final word.
Reaper "indoctrination" is an insidious means of corrupting organic minds, "reprogramming" the brain through physical and psychological conditioning using electromagnetic fields, infrasonic and ultrasonic noise, and other subliminal methods. The Reaper's resulting control over the limbic system leaves the victim highly susceptible to its suggestions.
Those that don't fall into the other methods department could be blocked with ease.
Before venting the area, try walking down the steps to see what happens. The player will get a critical mission failure screen if he/she doesn't get away quick enough.
Well if this stuff is so dangerous that it eats through your armor in seconds, then it's definetly a good idea to wear a full suit anywhere near it.
Which then begs the question why this stuff isn't used as a weapon. Modern chemical weapons aren't nearly as deadly...
Right. Some people can do more mind bending than others.
@gothpunkboy89: Yeayea, I got all that before.My point still stands that - even if we assume all of what of you just wrote is the case - it's still stupid to test all of this in the presidium, in a lab that does very important research a different subject and a few hundred meters away from the heart of the remaining galactic leadership.
Not to mention that the Alliance is supposed to come up with an experimental shielding in less than 6 months, while Saren was trying (or paying others to try) for years without achieving something.
And at the same time, Cerberus (who had the exact same normandy data, and is usually the organization with sudden unexplained uber-tec) decide to exhibit the big ass human reaper inside their base, without even trying any kind of shielding...
And at the same time, Cerberus (who had the exact same normandy data, and is usually the organization with sudden unexplained uber-tec) decide to exhibit the big ass human reaper inside their base, without even trying any kind of shielding...
Well, at least they got indoctrinated for it. If you read the Evolution comic (which I wouldn't recommend 
) it becomes clear that TIM was already under reaper influence basically since the First Contact War. I guess it's possible that it was that influence that kept him from employing any kind of safety measures (and possibly to get that thing there in the first place).
@gothpunkboy89: Yeayea, I got all that before.My point still stands that - even if we assume all of what of you just wrote is the case - it's still stupid to test all of this in the presidium, in a lab that does very important research a different subject and a few hundred meters away from the heart of the remaining galactic leadership.
If you have it contained then it isn't stupid to do that research there. Because the same logic could be applied to any power plant on the planet. If something goes wrong the problem can spread quickly to the surrounding civilian centers. From radiation to horrible pollution being released on them. Hell even smaller scale things like gas canister storage or fire work factory. I for get were it was but it was a gas storage facility with those tall 6 foot gas canisters. One over heated and malfunctioned creating a fire which set off all the others. Besides the massive explosion and fire balls those 6 foot hundred lbs cans were sent rocketing off up to a mile or so away. Bashing right though people's houses.
The stupidity of their actions is no more different then the stupidity of any other action. Hauling asteroids into close orbits around planets to mine them isn't exactly the most intelligent thing to do. As a slight mess up could send it rocketing into the planet causing wise spread death and destruction.
If the chunks of Sovergin were inert in terms of indoctrination. Which I'm sure they would test first. Particularly with the Alliance as they seemed to be the only group that believed any bit of what Shepard said. The study of the Leviathan Artifact as a much more primitive set up would be easier to shield against and in deed that is the only shielding shown to actually do anything in game.
Humans were special. Hackett and Anderson were the only ones who believed Shepard. The rest of them? The Council was just a bunch of self-concerned jackasses. Thank you Udina. Who was just another self-concerned jackass.
If Reaper tech indoctrinates, how would you know that a chunk of Sovereign would be inert in terms of indoctrination? It could indoctrinate you into believing that it was inert.
Hauling asteroids into orbits around planets isn't the most intelligent thing to do either, especially when there are Batarian terrorists lurking about. Even though you can get them into relatively stable orbits.
Much of what is Mass Effect Lore was written after the games to fill in the plot holes created in the games. Evolution was announced in July 2010, seven months after ME2 and published in January 2011, a full year after the game. The point being that, at this point they had decided that The Illusive Man would be the villain for ME3 and they needed to find a way of having him carry the idiot ball so they made it clear he was indoctrinated from the FCW in Evolution. They needed to find some way that we could shoot humans and not feel bad about it. Showing that Cerberus troops were zombies under their masks accomplished that.
Leviathan was another one written to fill in a plot hole. But in reality it just dug a bigger hole.
@gothpunkboy89: Sorry but power plants? YOf course, you could build all power plants somewhere in the desert but you'd need to build and maintain power lines and you also loose energy that way as well. That's just not feasible and the comparison doesn't work at all IMO.
I'll give you that their stupidity is not that much greater than in other cases in the franchise (although I think, depending on how exactly it is done, the idea with the asteroid in BDtS might not even have been half bad). But as I wrote earlier, at least these things have some significance to the plot. I am more willing to bend my mind around some issues if it means that we can get an exciting and dramatic story. That artifact and it's shielding have no relevance and thus, it annoys me even more.
If the chunks of Sovergin were inert in terms of indoctrination. Which I'm sure they would test first. Particularly with the Alliance as they seemed to be the only group that believed any bit of what Shepard said.
I covered that already, apparently they (Alliance, Bryson, whoever) think it might indoctrinate (why else would they even try to shield it). Shepard also thinks it's possible and immediately asks about the possibility in his/her comment about it. Whether it actually does or not is beside the point. Just taking the risk of putting that thing in the presidium is stupid.
The study of the Leviathan Artifact as a much more primitive set up would be easier to shield against and in deed that is the only shielding shown to actually do anything in game.
That's true, I don't have much of a problem with that since apparently reaper indoctrination works quite a bit differently than Leviathan mind control. So we don't have a reference point for it and therefore the writers have more freedom in this case.
Maybe your right, I haven't played ME2 in a while so I don't exactly remember how the scene plays out. But I still think that you shouldn't get paragon points for basicly doing a personal favor by withholding the truth.
Actually, yes, it does.
I don't remember exactly when, but in the end of ME1 or in the middle of ME2 you have a conversation with Tali and depending what you chose one of the responses leads to saying you consider her a friend.
What kind of a friend is Shepard if s/he don't support Tali when she's in trouble, even if she's wrong?
In true, what kind of friend are a person if you don't help you buddy?
Sure, you can end the friendship after the incident, punch him/her in the face for being DUMB or having a serious talk with s/he.
But you don't let a friend out in the cold and turn your back on him/her.
Or is ok to stab people in the back?
Usually I never chosed the paragon path in the aformentioned mission because even the first time it doesn't need a vast brain to see the accusations are horsesh***!
So yeah, I say the quarians to go to hell and leave my crewmate out of their political BS, because that's exactly what they are doing.
They are looking a scape goat for the mess they own created.
Remember that ALL of the judges and most senior captains known and supported the experiences Tali's father were doing, except one.
Then the whole thing blow in their faces and they want someone else to pay what's due?
F*** them.
That's what we get for a too much traditional society.
And I'm not one of the so called "Talimancers", just to be clear.
That's true, I don't have much of a problem with that since apparently reaper indoctrination works quite a bit differently than Leviathan mind control. So we don't have a reference point for it and therefore the writers have more freedom in this case.
But that is the point your entire issue from what I gather is you find the magical indoctrination shield annoying. When it really doesn't show any sort of shielding against it being done. It just exists and they make an off hand comment about how it is shielded. But that doesn't play any part in over all DLC story. The only shielding that has any effect is when they put up the barrier around the Leviathan Orb.
It is really only a sliver of Sovereign's body. Odd are it doesn't actually contain the ability to indoctrinate anything. Thus the shielding acts more like a false sense of security. They think it works but in reality it is just because it isn't actually capable of producing an indoctrination effect. After all the bit in the lab is a human equivalent of a finger nail clipping to a full fledged Reaper.
I don't believe that piece of Sovereign can indoctrinate. The reaper is seen being destroyed into many pieces in ME1. Different species were taking pieces, most likely to study, and there is nothing to suggest that they were indoctrinated or at least anything out of the ordinary reported that I know of. Even the turians were able to get the thannix cannon out of it. They never were indoctrinated.
At the time did Dr.Bryson know of indoctrination? Not many knew about indoctrination at that time. If he did know about indoctrination, did he pass that information to the Alliance about the shield he's using for them to use or at least maybe improve? I'm also surprised that Shepard didn't ask Ann if she knew if her father let the Alliance know about the shielding
On the derelict reaper, the Cerberus guys became husks. I believe that was because the reaper still had power to be able to do its indoctrination thing. Once the drive core was destroyed it lost its ability to indoctrinate.
Sovereign was destroyed along with the drive core causing it to lose its ability to indoctrinate.
With the collector base, I can believe indoctrination occurred because of saving the base that gives the brain, and if destroyed, the heart would cause the people around it to be indoctrinated. I would be curious what parts Dr.Cole and the other ex-Cerberus scientists worked on. They didn't appear to be indoctrinated.
Its all guesswork on my part.
@gothpunkboy89:
But that is the point your entire issue from what I gather is you find the magical indoctrination shield annoying. When it really doesn't show any sort of shielding against it being done.
The Leviathan spheres seem to work differently and don't come into this at all.
Again, yes, one part of my point is that I find the fact that we suddenly have a shielding against indoctrination annoying, if that is the case (i.e. if they were 100% certain that the shielding works).
Never did I say that it has to work but if it does, that's annoying. If it doesn't work (or if they are not absolutely 100% sure that it works and that it cannot fail), then we come to the next issue:
That next issue is not whether or not that piece of Sovereign can indoctrinate or not. I repeat this for the second or third time now:
I covered that already, apparently they (Alliance, Bryson, whoever) think it might indoctrinate (why else would they even try to shield it). Shepard also thinks it's possible and immediately asks about the possibility in his/her comment about it. Whether it actually does or not is beside the point. Just taking the risk of putting that thing in the presidium is stupid.
So again, to summarize:
Case 1: Shielding is 100% fool proof working: That's weird, how did they succeed so quickly, why don't we hear of this breakthrough outside of Bryson's lab (say when we deal with actual indoctrination), why is this new super technology apparently only used on this completely useless application here? I could go on
Case 2: Shielding is maybe working, maybe not/some kind of prototype: It is ludicrous to put a part of a reaper of which no one knows if it can indoctrinate or not in the presidium (center of the remaining galactic leadership), when you use unproven tech to protect against a likely disaster. The issue is not what Sovereign's piece can do, the issue is what the characters who put it there thought it could do.
So one last time, I'll repeat, either way, it doesn't make much sense.
Just a question: why they didn't make a confrontation between Tali/Shala'Raan when deciding to spare the geth and exterminate the quarians?
Legion do this, he don't stand around passively waiting his people being sent to oblivion.
Yet Tali/Shala'Raan do.
I can rationalize that Tali is in shock and can't react, but Shalla'Raan too?
It's strange, I think a confrontation will serve the plot immensely.
Hanars do not have any eyes and can read as use technology what need them as they can spacetravel somehow
immune system of many races what addapt to all air and other diseases of all races...srly i laught when i heard about "weak quarian immune system" when they can easy adapt to anything after some time, they are they only who have realistic immune system of all, ok Krogans and Vorcha too can eat things what would kill anyone
humans can kiss turians who have very different dextro amino acids what must have killed both as poison consider that they cant eat food or drink liquid of each ones
Just because Hanar don't have eyes that look like ours doesn't necessarily mean that they cannot register light. Even if they cannot, it is possible that they use technology that is adapted to their senses. Since there is very little information about their biology, it's tough to say.
You are right that the quarian immune system thing is very dubious. However, as Talli explains they do not get diseases from other races. It's more that they have extreme allergic reactions to most alien organic matter, especially if it is infectious. This however does not make much sense in and of itself because an allergic reaction is caused by a hypersensitive immune response, so it's kind of the opposite of a weak immune system.
Coming in contact (or even ingesting) amino acids of different chirality will not kill you or poison you. You simply might not be able to process it properly because the resulting proteins "don't fit" the enzymes of your digestive system (so you may not get much nutritional value out of turian/quarian food, etc.). Familiar food and odors may not taste/smell the same as you are used to (or not at all) because they don't activate the same receptors. Negative effects should be minimal for anything that isn't harmful in other ways.
@gothpunkboy89:
The Leviathan spheres seem to work differently and don't come into this at all.
Again, yes, one part of my point is that I find the fact that we suddenly have a shielding against indoctrination annoying, if that is the case (i.e. if they were 100% certain that the shielding works).
Never did I say that it has to work but if it does, that's annoying. If it doesn't work (or if they are not absolutely 100% sure that it works and that it cannot fail), then we come to the next issue:
That next issue is not whether or not that piece of Sovereign can indoctrinate or not. I repeat this for the second or third time now:
So again, to summarize:
Case 1: Shielding is 100% fool proof working: That's weird, how did they succeed so quickly, why don't we hear of this breakthrough outside of Bryson's lab (say when we deal with actual indoctrination), why is this new super technology apparently only used on this completely useless application here? I could go on
Case 2: Shielding is maybe working, maybe not/some kind of prototype: It is ludicrous to put a part of a reaper of which no one knows if it can indoctrinate or not in the presidium (center of the remaining galactic leadership), when you use unproven tech to protect against a likely disaster. The issue is not what Sovereign's piece can do, the issue is what the characters who put it there thought it could do.
So one last time, I'll repeat, either way, it doesn't make much sense.
I again say claiming the shield works doesn't mean there was anything to block against it. I can throw a sheet over you and claim it blocks you from hyper alpha negative omega participial. And the fact you don't get sick from any hyper alpha negative omega partials is proof the blanket works. But in reality because no such partial exists I could use anything encased around it and magically block the effect.
At no point does it even vaugly hint at any blocking of indoctrination. They simply claim it is shielded. Much like I claim that blanket shields you.
You know damn well if it worked then every species in the galaxy would be using it. But it never makes it beyond a single instance in the game in an area you spend only a few minutes in minus any dicking around. This out right shows the claim it shields it is a meaningless claim. The tiny insignificant shard is simply incapable of creating an indoctrination effect. So you could have smeared it in rat turds and still been able to make the claim that it was sheiled against indoctrination effects.
You are right that the quarian immune system thing is very dubious. However, as Talli explains they do not get diseases from other races. It's more that they have extreme allergic reactions to most alien organic matter, especially if it is infectious. This however does not make much sense in and of itself because an allergic reaction is caused by a hypersensitive immune response, so it's kind of the opposite of a weak immune system.
Thier immune system also works rather differently then ours does. Our immune system is created to protect us from the outside world. The Quarian immune system was created to interact with their outside world if I remember correctly. And immune system that has become so specialized that it can't interact with anything but your own body. To the point even 2 quarians connecting their suits renders them sick. Could be by their definition a weakened immune system.
Well, yes, I can sort of see that. It's just off what Tali tells you about allergic reactions in ME2. This doesn't quite fit with a weak immune system, as an allergic reaction is caused by (to put it simply) an overreaction of the immune system. So when she says that she took immune boosters before taking off her mask, this could potentially be really bad.
On the other hand, the allergies make a lot more sense than getting infections. As we learned during Garrus' recruitment mission, it is extremely rare for diseases to jump species. This is also in line with what you would expect if diseases (mainly viral or bacterial) evolved on different planets in different and completely unrelated host species. It is weird enough that all life in the galaxy seems to be based on DNA, equivalent to what you find on earth. So an allergy (which is much less specific than an actual infection) makes sense from that perspective, it just doesn't fit in with everything else, we are told about the quarians. Weird.
As for the indoctrination thing: I am not going to repeat myself yet again and I don't know how I can put it any more clearly. By now I get the feeling you actively don't want to understand me. You seem to agree that case #1 doesn't make sense, so just go to case #2 of my previous post on the matter.
Just because Hanar don't have eyes that look like ours doesn't necessarily mean that they cannot register light. Even if they cannot, it is possible that they use technology that is adapted to their senses. Since there is very little information about their biology, it's tough to say.
In fact, I believe the hanar language is supposed to be bioluminescent patterns on their skin.
lol, I'm not sure "immune booster" is a real thing and its probably a supplement. Tali probably have regular doses of dextro-antihistamines to control her immune reactions. Chakwas stock up for her in the medbay.
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