1395 réponses à ce sujet

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Just because Hanar don't have eyes that look like ours doesn't necessarily mean that they cannot register light. Even if they cannot, it is possible that they use technology that is adapted to their senses. Since there is very little information about their biology, it's tough to say.

 

You are right that the quarian immune system thing is very dubious. However, as Talli explains they do not get diseases from other races. It's more that they have extreme allergic reactions to most alien organic matter, especially if it is infectious. This however does not make much sense in and of itself because an allergic reaction is caused by a hypersensitive immune response, so it's kind of the opposite of a weak immune system.

 

Coming in contact (or even ingesting) amino acids of different chirality will not kill you or poison you. You simply might not be able to process it properly because the resulting proteins "don't fit" the enzymes of your digestive system (so you may not get much nutritional value out of turian/quarian food, etc.). Familiar food and odors may not taste/smell the same as you are used to (or not at all) because they don't activate the same receptors. Negative effects should be minimal for anything that isn't harmful in other ways.

 

Agreed. It would be like Olestra. Remember Olestra? Runs right through you.

[brfritos]

Things that don't make sense...

 

...listen the Catalyst preach about how synthetics and organics won't get along and will destroy each other when a while ago I actually make the Geth and Quarians get along with each other and even share the same planet.

 

Also lets not forget EDI.

 

So yeah, shouldn't have picked the destroy choice, right?

 

 

PS: Mengele is in heaven laughing about the synthesis choice...

[Iakus]

 

Coming in contact (or even ingesting) amino acids of different chirality will not kill you or poison you. You simply might not be able to process it properly because the resulting proteins "don't fit" the enzymes of your digestive system (so you may not get much nutritional value out of turian/quarian food, etc.). Familiar food and odors may not taste/smell the same as you are used to (or not at all) because they don't activate the same receptors. Negative effects should be minimal for anything that isn't harmful in other ways.

Yep.  A levo eating dextro food (or vice versa) would most likely be like a kid eating a crayon:  It would just go right through them and out the other end in little bits, with no nutritional gain, but (probably) no ill effects either.

 

Probably less colorful though.

[aoibhealfae]

I believe its probably more like traveller's diarrhea......... .... .. okay, I did just go there... i'm going away now

[Theia_Loki]

I'm curious about Parasini's looking into the interest in Dark Energy back in ME2; said that her superiors were wondering if it was a good thing.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I'm curious about Parasini's looking into the interest in Dark Energy back in ME2; said that her superiors were wondering if it was a good thing.

 

It is not something you can comprehend. We represent order. You represent chaos. Every organic civilization must be harvested in order to bring order to the chaos.

[Iakus]

It is not something you can comprehend. We represent order. You represent chaos. Every organic civilization must be harvested in order to bring order to the chaos.

You would not know them, and there is no time to explain.

[gothpunkboy89]

Well, yes, I can sort of see that. It's just off what Tali tells you about allergic reactions in ME2. This doesn't quite fit with a weak immune system, as an allergic reaction is caused by (to put it simply) an overreaction of the immune system. So when she says that she took immune boosters before taking off her mask, this could potentially be really bad.

 

On the other hand, the allergies make a lot more sense than getting infections. As we learned during Garrus' recruitment mission, it is extremely rare for diseases to jump species. This is also in line with what you would expect if diseases (mainly viral or bacterial) evolved on different planets in different and completely unrelated host species. It is weird enough that all life in the galaxy seems to be based on DNA, equivalent to what you find on earth. So an allergy (which is much less specific than an actual infection) makes sense from that perspective, it just doesn't fit in with everything else, we are told about the quarians. Weird.

 

As for the indoctrination thing: I am not going to repeat myself yet again and I don't know how I can put it any more clearly. By now I get the feeling you actively don't want to understand me. You seem to agree that case #1 doesn't make sense, so just go to case #2 of my previous post on the matter.

 

DNA is the basic building block of life. The fact DNA is similar to Earth based DNA isn't to far fetched. In many ways it is like complaining about all the other species breath and digesting food is to Earth like.

 

Quarian immune systems have always been relatively weak, as pathogenic microbes were comparatively rare in their homeworld's biosphere. Furthermore, what few viruses and other microbes were native to their homeworld were often at least partly beneficial to them, giving them a symbiotic relationship with their environment.

 

^ is from the ME Wiki

 

The over reaction from their body because it has become so use to it's own body that any outside effect causes it to over react hurting the body causing symptoms usually what we would associate with a cold or sickness would explain why they consider it weakened. As their body is literally attacking it self in it's attempt to deal with the foreign bacteria. It seems like a fairly classic autoimmune diseases. Which while not the worst to have defiantly causes a ton of problems to the point it can kill the person if it goes off to much or in the wrong spot like the heart.  While the reaction is different then expected I would still classify and entire race with an autoimmune disease as having a weakened immune system. Particularly when you add in how they developed on their world and their own definition of it compared to ours.

[gothpunkboy89]

Things that don't make sense...

 

...listen the Catalyst preach about how synthetics and organics won't get along and will destroy each other when a while ago I actually make the Geth and Quarians get along with each other and even share the same planet.

 

Also lets not forget EDI.

 

So yeah, shouldn't have picked the destroy choice, right?

 

 

PS: Mengele is in heaven laughing about the synthesis choice...

 

 

Look back 50 years in time at society. The values the types of people in charge. Are they the exact same? Did things change with time? Have new issues cropped up in the world?

 

Just because something is now doesn't mean it will be the same 50 years from now.

[brfritos]

Look back 50 years in time at society. The values the types of people in charge. Are they the exact same? Did things change with time? Have new issues cropped up in the world?

 

Just because something is now doesn't mean it will be the same 50 years from now.

 

 

Yes, some things change, some don't, specially in a 50.000 years span time.

 

But I can't argue with the Catalyst about those changes and have to accept what he says as face value, unlike we are doing here.

 

That's a big problem when debating something.

[gothpunkboy89]

Yes, some things change, some don't, specially in a 50.000 years span time.

 

But I can't argue with the Catalyst about those changes and have to accept what he says as face value, unlike we are doing here.

 

That's a big problem when debating something.

 

Well that is the issue when people point out that Geth and EDI are ok with organics. Ignoring for the fact EDI is a singular AI rather then the Geth which are far close to the kind of set ups that caused problems in the past.

 

It is a very often repeated statement on the forums for people who think the AI is full of poop. Using the Geth as an example that states the claim that Organic and Synthetic have repeated in the past got into fights that resulted in the large loss of life including complete extinction of one or the other side of the fight.

 

The problem with that logic is that is it......well I can't think of any other way to describe it other then small minded. Someone who is incapable of understanding or perhaps unwilling to see the world for how it really is. A constantly changing stage that never stays the same all the time. Some times the change is subtle and some times it is a lot more obvious. Going back simply 50 years sees a large change in what was considered appropriate morals and social structures. The further you go back the more the changes tend to be obvious in some cases.  Which is why I don't hold much stock in the argument that because we get along with the Geth now we will always get along with them. And we will always get along with what ever the next AI group that follow the Geth the same way.

[brfritos]

Well that is the issue when people point out that Geth and EDI are ok with organics. Ignoring for the fact EDI is a singular AI rather then the Geth which are far close to the kind of set ups that caused problems in the past.

 

 

But EDI IS ok with organics, she even says that.

 

The Geth are a different story and Shepard's actions will define if they are ok or not with us.

A playthrough of ME3 with Legion alive and trusted provides different information than a playthrough with a Legion-copy.

 

With a trusted Legion that returned alive from the SM, he explicit says the Geth do not wish to enter in conflict with organics because their experience when battling their creators and from what the geth collective learned from Legion's time with Shepard.

It also changes the perspective of the geth about the quarians, their creators.

Since the quarians were sucessfull in their attack to the collective, the geth intelligence dimmed and they only saw an exit by allying with the reapers.

Freeing themselves from reaper control, the geth act very different, accepting to coexist and cooperate with the quarians after gaining their intelligence back.

 

On the other hand if Legion is dead and replaced by a geth copy, the information he passes by is also very different, since he didn't returned alive from the SM and couldn't pass the information to the rest of them, resulting in the geth being alienated and with pre-conceptions of us organics.

This will result in the geth not trusting organics and only with the extermination of the quarians willing to do so in the future.

 

I'm not especulating, I'm simply using the information the game provided.

 

The main problem is: these two scenarios will result in several different outcomes and I can't argue with the Catalyst about them.

I can't tell to him the Geth (synthetics) learned about cooperation and symbiosis with organics, so he's wrong with his assessment about synthetics or agree with him that he's right and organics and synthetics will never get along.

I only have the option to acccept what he says... and that's it.

 

This also happens AGAIN when confronting Leviathan, I don't have a option to tell him to play high and go f**k himself, I only have the option to listen him talk about a bunch of nonsense.

If they are so powerfull and almighty and destroy a Sovereign class reaper in seconds, how the hell they let the AI conquer them? Because they had nothing better to do? Better yet, it wasn't even the reapers at that point, it was the thralls they claim to control.

Because, you know, they controlled the entire galaxy but didn't knew what was happening in that galaxy?

 

Oh look, we are being annihilated, but we can destroy those pesky AI in seconds with a burst of EMP.

Let's do this? Of course not, it's more fun this way.

 

And if you are pratically a GOD and a organic mastermind, you want to prevent wars that derive from organics creating synthetics by constructing... a synthetic AI?

 

Wait a second! Then in reality this means we deserve the Reapers and being transformed in mindless husks and being used as "pasta al limone" by them.

So the endings are still flawed.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

@brfritos - you are forgetting that Mass Effect 3 was the best place to start because it changed the lore to suit its needs. The only thing consistent about lore in the ME universe is its inconsistency.

 

The entire purpose of the Leviathan DLC was to justify the existence of Starboy and give us an entertaining DLC regardless of if it made any sense or not. Our primitive cycle destroyed at least 4 Sovereign class reapers. According to ME lore, and the devs, the reapers made 1, One, ONE, capital reaper per cycle out of the "special" race. Then they put them on the front lines the next cycle. If they lost even one of these ships in a cycle they're treading water. If they lose more then one, they're slipping. The cycle was not sustainable. It didn't make any sense.

[themikefest]

@brfritos - you are forgetting that Mass Effect 3 was the best place to start because it changed the lore to suit its needs. The only thing consistent about lore in the ME universe is its inconsistency.

Ha. Well said

As I've said before, if ME3 is for new players, I like an ME3 for the old players
 

The entire purpose of the Leviathan DLC was to justify the existence of Starboy and give us an entertaining DLC regardless of if it made any sense or not. Our primitive cycle destroyed at least 4 Sovereign class reapers. According to ME lore, and the devs, the reapers made 1, One, ONE, capital reaper per cycle out of the "special" race. Then they put them on the front lines the next cycle. If they lost even one of these ships in a cycle they're treading water. If they lose more then one, they're slipping. The cycle was not sustainable. It didn't make any sense.

 Here's a post explaining how many reapers were destroyed during our cycle before the crucible is fired

[WarGriffin]

The Terminus System to me is always one of those missed opportunities.

 

When Introduced, You get the impression that the Terminus is this band of independent races that if the council crosses them it'll be a Galactic war that'll make the Krogan Rebellions and Rachni Wars look like a mild border skrimish

 

 

Now, I get that Making a bunch of New races would have been time consuming especially since again ME was never suppose to be a direct Trilogy to begin with and ME2 is largely character driven... so the World Building isn't super important. so just making a bunch of prolific merc/criminal groups made up of the races we've already seen

 

The issue is it makes the Terminus systems feel less like The independents of the council... and more the citadel's lawless frontier.

 

So Their reasoning in ME1 doesn't hold up... especially when said groups are constantly demolished by the equivalent of one platoon's worth... Hell They have one of said merc's leaders under lock and key. Why is the Council afraid of these bozos?

 

 

Granted I'm not saying that the Terminus needed visible THIS IS NOT CITADEL SPACE and you run head first into the Kilrathi Empire.

 

 

Its less it makes sense... Cause i get why it doesn't make sense -Its more cost effective to just reuse the races we have instead of making these new big races and political groups.

 

 

I guess the other missed opportunity is with the Reapers, With the Collectors and Rachni We know the reapers can grow and re-purpose entire races into being their shock troops. so that begs the Question of Why bother going the utilitarian route the Reapers used. IE invade the Batarians, create Cannibals, invade the turians create Marauders etc etc- With the Reaper's vast libiary of conquered races... you'd think they'd have a personal army like the collectors, designed from the toughest species that resisted them ready to go. -Which was an Idea I had for a MP faction. The Executioners-

 

Again though I get why that didn't happen., Its easier to work with what we got then just make new stuff from whole cloth.

 

Then again

 

 

[Midnight Bliss]

Miranda not rejoining the Normandy in ME3 irks me more than it should.

 

There's far bigger offenders I know, but that's the one that never really got past.

[Iakus]

The Terminus System to me is always one of those missed opportunities.

 

When Introduced, You get the impression that the Terminus is this band of independent races that if the council crosses them it'll be a Galactic war that'll make the Krogan Rebellions and Rachni Wars look like a mild border skrimish

 

 

Now, I get that Making a bunch of New races would have been time consuming especially since again ME was never suppose to be a direct Trilogy to begin with and ME2 is largely character driven... so the World Building isn't super important. so just making a bunch of prolific merc/criminal groups made up of the races we've already seen

 

The issue is it makes the Terminus systems feel less like The independents of the council... and more the citadel's lawless frontier.

 

So Their reasoning in ME1 doesn't hold up... especially when said groups are constantly demolished by the equivalent of one platoon's worth... Hell They have one of said merc's leaders under lock and key. Why is the Council afraid of these bozos?

 

 

Granted I'm not saying that the Terminus needed visible THIS IS NOT CITADEL SPACE and you run head first into the Kilrathi Empire.

 

 

Its less it makes sense... Cause i get why it doesn't make sense -Its more cost effective to just reuse the races we have instead of making these new big races and political groups.

 

 

I guess the other missed opportunity is with the Reapers, With the Collectors and Rachni We know the reapers can grow and re-purpose entire races into being their shock troops. so that begs the Question of Why bother going the utilitarian route the Reapers used. IE invade the Batarians, create Cannibals, invade the turians create Marauders etc etc- With the Reaper's vast libiary of conquered races... you'd think they'd have a personal army like the collectors, designed from the toughest species that resisted them ready to go. -Which was an Idea I had for a MP faction. The Executioners-

 

Again though I get why that didn't happen., Its easier to work with what we got then just make new stuff from whole cloth.

 

Then again

 

 

Even weirder:

 

THe impression I got about the Terminus was that if the COuncil p*ssed them off enough to go to war, they'd be fighting THREE WHOLE MERCENARY GROUPS!

 

Oh the horror!  THe COuncil can't possibly stand against that kind of threat!  

[WarGriffin]

Even weirder:

 

THe impression I got about the Terminus was that if the COuncil p*ssed them off enough to go to war, they'd be fighting THREE WHOLE MERCENARY GROUPS!

 

Oh the horror!  THe COuncil can't possibly stand against that kind of threat!  

 

I think originally they wanted something more akin to how star Trek's milky way is set up between the Quadrants

 

The alpha Quadrant is mostly dominated by the Federation, The Beta is mostly the Klingons along with the Romulans trying to spill into the Alpha

 

The Delta Quadrant is pretty much Dominated by the Borg and The Gamma is the Dominion.

 

 

So same principle

 

You have Citadel space controlled by the Council and its various Races. Alliance Space is really spilt between Humans and Batarians -So Klingons and Romulans-

 

The Frontier, Attican Traverse with the Geth being even more like the Romulans hiding in the Corner or Borg since they seem to be the only real power outside of the migrant fleet... and maybe the Rachni

 

and then The Terminus systems would be like several powerful races that are strong enough to resist the Council

 

 

Again I think the issue was... What was cost effective. Make a bunch of New Races for Shepard to interact with since They are suppose to be in the Terminus systems -which in reality except for Omega which is more in the Traverse... They really aren't... Illuim is considered a border world, Tuchanka is in Citadel Space and Omega is out in the middle of **** ***** nowhere, so ME2 which is suppsoe to take place in the Terminus Systems... takes place more in the Traverse or Council space. Whoops.

 

 

or just make Three Pirate groups out of the Races you have, Hence why the Blood Pack is just the Krogan with Vorcha troops, instead of Weaker Krogan with Boss Krogan like Krogan pirates before, The Eclipse are just pirate Salarians, Asari and Humans and the Blue Suns are just pirate Turians, Batarians and more humans.

 

 

Really this is one of those The only way to solve the problem is to break down and make a bunch of new races. It probably would have been the Mass Effect version of the Covenant.. or The just the Dominion. 

[MrFob]

I never got the impression that there would be a whole bunch of new races in the Terminus. AFAIK, they main;y mention that it's pirate gangs, slaver groups, mercs and other warlords and violent factions that mainly fight each other (and sometimes raid the fringes of the traverse and alliance space). This is the case in both ME1 and 2 (Omega is just one aspect of a much larger region, far from the whole thing). You are right, the ME1 codex talks about a loose coalition of "minor species" which - apart from the vorcha - we never see but that doesn't mean they are not there, they might just not be wide-spread enough to show up on places like Omega.

 

The Council is just afraid that if all those groups banded together to form one coherent army/fleet, it could be a messy war. I also never heard that they say that it would be worse than the Krogan Revellions or the Rachni Wars, they just say that it would be another big war, which would be bad even if they are confident that they will win in the end (the asari especially wouldn't be happy about any war).

 

So while I agree that Omega was retconned in there a little and that it would have been nice to see a few more examples of these "minor species", the general setting wasn't really changed a lot in this regard IMO.

 

I also disagree that the ME setting was modeled after Star Trek as you describe it. I think it's pretty different, the mass relay network already ensures that  it is much more interconnected.

 

BTW, what really doesn't make sense to me is that, according to the N7 HQ, Systems Alliance space is somehow almost as big as council space. This was introduced in ME3, before that I always thought that Earth had no space of their own, just some colonies in the traverse and was itself part of council space, just like Thessia, Palaven or Sur'Kesh. Why would any of those races accept that the humans - only 40 years after appearing in the galactic community - claims almost a quarter of the galaxy, even if it's just on a map? It's yet another ridiculous extension of the "humans are special" trope that has plagued the ME series since ME2.

[Iakus]

 

BTW, what really doesn't make sense to me is the, according to the N7 HQ, Systems Alliance space is somehow almost as big as council space. This was introduced in ME3, before that I always thought that Earth had no space of their own, just some colonies in the traverse and was itself part of council space, just like Thessia, Palaven or Sur'Kesh. Why would any of those races accept that the humans - only 40 years after appearing in the galactic community - claims almost a quarter of the galaxy, even if it's just on a map? It's yet another ridiculous extension of the "humans are special" trope that has plagued the ME series since ME2.

Yeah my impression was the Attican Traverse was just the outer edge of Council space.  And they were largely using human colonies as a buffer between the terminus and the rest of Council space.

[brfritos]

@brfritos - you are forgetting that Mass Effect 3 was the best place to start because it changed the lore to suit its needs. The only thing consistent about lore in the ME universe is its inconsistency.

 

The entire purpose of the Leviathan DLC was to justify the existence of Starboy and give us an entertaining DLC regardless of if it made any sense or not. Our primitive cycle destroyed at least 4 Sovereign class reapers. According to ME lore, and the devs, the reapers made 1, One, ONE, capital reaper per cycle out of the "special" race. Then they put them on the front lines the next cycle. If they lost even one of these ships in a cycle they're treading water. If they lose more then one, they're slipping. The cycle was not sustainable. It didn't make any sense.

 

 

Actually this started with ME2.

 

The Normandy can't enter atmospheric worlds because of her mass and size, but let's make cutscenes with her doing this because is "cool".

Or retconing some characters for better suit our needs, like the Quarians... because reasons.

Or after Sovereign nearly wiping out the Citadel, the Council and galactic society, nobody belive the Reapers exist.

Apart our hero, of ocurse.

 

Arrgh, we can go with this for ages.

 

The main problem is not changing or modifying a setting or act, but do this without a logic reason because it doesn't serve the writer's need.

And this is good writing?

 

ME3 is only the culmination of such things, not the start.

[brfritos]

Miranda not rejoining the Normandy in ME3 irks me more than it should.

 

There's far bigger offenders I know, but that's the one that never really got past.

 

 

In my opinion - and this is my opinion only - Miranda is one of those missing opportunities.

Good Lord, can you imagine she joining the Normandy? An ex-Cerberus when we're fighting Cerberus and Reapers?

 

This could add tons of very good settings, specially if we join Kaydan or Ashley in the mix! LOL

 

And I'm not even a fan of her character.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

But then they have a dreadnought in atmosphere at the start of ME3, so I don't think the SR2 entering atmosphere is really a problem. 

 

One could successfully make the argument that ME2 was the root of all evil. And when you look at the series and the number of "butterflies" it is really quite easy to figure out why things don't really make any sense anywhere.

 

ME1) The Rachni Decision; The VS; Wrex; and finally the Destiny Ascension & Council. 

 

ME2) The Genophage Pt 1; The Legion Decision; Tali's Trial; Zaeed; Kasumi; Miranda; Jack; Garrus; Samara; Jacob; Thane; Grunt; Mordin; The Heretics; and finally The Collector Base. Lair of the Shadow Broker. Arrival. Overlord.

 

This makes a grand total of 22 butterflies going over into ME3, some of which were essential characters who could be dead. Note that if you didn't do Lair of the Shadow Broker, EDI tells you that Cerberus recovered your body during the Cronos Base Assault, not Liara. At this point, I'm more inclined to blame Casey Hudson & Drew K for the inconsistency of lore than Mac Walters. Walters had an absolute mess to sort out.

 

So when writing in the MEU, I consider lore to be a zany free-for-all. 

[themikefest]

ME2) The Genophage Pt 1; The Legion Decision; Tali's Trial; Zaeed; Kasumi; Miranda; Jack; Garrus; Samara; Jacob; Thane; Grunt; Mordin; The Heretics; and finally The Collector Base. Lair of the Shadow Broker. Arrival. Overlord.

My biggest issue is the squadmates. Bioware set it up with either all can live or die. Another is if eveyone can live with only having 8 squadmates, why have 12?

If you take away the upgrades from the squadmates for the ship and have Shepard  obtain them another way, the suicide mission can be completed with only 5 squadmates while still having everyone live. If no escort was required for getting the crew back to the Normandy safely, everyone can survive with only 4 squadmates.
 

 Note that if you didn't do Lair of the Shadow Broker, EDI tells you that Cerberus recovered your body during the Cronos Base Assault, not Liara.

Correction. The edibot will only say that for an ME3 default playthrough.
 

[Barquiel]

In my opinion - and this is my opinion only - Miranda is one of those missing opportunities.
Good Lord, can you imagine she joining the Normandy? An ex-Cerberus when we're fighting Cerberus and Reapers?
 
This could add tons of very good settings, specially if we join Kaydan or Ashley in the mix! LOL
 
And I'm not even a fan of her character.

I think there are several squadmates who are making weak excuses for not joining Shepard in ME3. Some characters like Mordin, Legion, Jack, Thane and Wrex have narrative legit reason not to be in your team. Others not so much...Samara has probably the flimsiest excuse. She says she is willing to join your Crusade. Alright, welcome aboard! No, Samara prefers to vanish (and defends some small asari colony). There is no greater opprtunity to fight evil than joining my team, but no. Kasumi, Zaeed, Grunt, Miranda are not much better...

I understand that Bioware had no time or resources to write thr entire ME2 team into the ME3 squad, but some better excuses would have been nice.