1395 réponses à ce sujet

[themikefest]

 Unless you're going by the "I dream of Harby with the light brown hair" stuff.

Hahahahahaha. Awesome. Haven't heard or rather read that line in a very long time except with Jeanie's name and not Harby's name

 

Spoiler

[gothpunkboy89]

Here's the information on survival in space without a pressure suit from NASA:

 

1) Would you explode? No. Your skin is too strong for that to happen.

2) Would your blood boil? That depends, but the water in your body would. As long as your blood was circulating it would keep the water from boiling. This would last about a minute. Then the water in your blood would start to boil in your extremities like your exposed eyes, tongue, and it would get worse from there.

3) Could you survive? Yes, but for only about a minute.

 

This is the short answer. "Not the most comfortable feeling" is a gross understatement and facepalm worthy. You would need more than a mask the women were wearing. That was ridiculous. Your suit would need to be pressurized to a minimum of 4.3 psia. The question is this: if all we need is a mask, why does NASA spend money on those expensive space suits? Because they are necessary to survive in a vacuum. Boob armor doesn't work.

 

Regarding what the Starchild knew at the time is your pure head canon. Unless you're going by the "I dream of Harby with the light brown hair" stuff. And that plays right into Indoctrination Theory, doesn't it, unless Shepard really was dreaming of the vent boy, the only chiid in the entire Mass Effect Universe.... who just happened to look just like Starbrat.... But I get it... artistic integrity.... and resources. But what if I told you that Shepard made Batarians drink poison; told Asari vendors to dump her Krogan lover; shoved an Eclipse Merc out a window; interrogated a sick Batarian and let him die, then looted his apartment; beat the crap out of Elias Kelham, then shot Joram Talid; destroyed Maelon's data; destroyed the Heretic base; killed Wrex; killed the Rachni Queen; let the Geth die; sabotaged the genophage cure; shot Ashley. Does this sound like a Shepard who would care about a child dying? I didn't think so. What if The Illusive Man had and Shepard killed each other and Anderson somehow survived and made it up the elevator instead? Or doesn't being born in London count for anything? That was a possibility at that point. So you can't say that what was controlling The Illusive Man wanted something from Shepard then because then you make Shepard into a Mary Sue instead of a bad ass. 

 

Face the facts. You just want things everything to make sense. You want to believe. But there are too many holes in the story. Too many things that don't make sense. And you can't toss out the books because the first book predates the first game. You can, however, toss out the last book. The comics? Unfortunately all this stuff is considered Mass Effect canon. You can't cherry pick your lore. 

 

All the tests NASA has that I could find were people subjected to short term full exposure to vacuum without  access to air. The closes one is the guy losing pressure in his suit while in a high altitude balloon. Since NASA isn't going to waste the $2,000,000 cost of sending a 200 lbs person into space to test it with a scuba gear set up for lack of better term. Like wise lack of medical supplies both on a ship or ISS would make this a bad move. No astronaut wants to have a corpse in the cargo hold for a few weeks to a few months.

 

How ever onto Jack she in addition to the breather mask has a sort of bubble shield around her head much the same way Joker had at the start of ME2.  This goes into the usual rule of shielding vs vacuum that exists in every space based science fiction that I am at least aware of. In which the shield auto protects from the vacuum of space. Star Trek, Star Wars, Halo, and Mass Effect all follow this rule. Best exemplified at the end of ME2 were there is a massive hole in the ship with a barrier up and no one in any sort of pressure suits even the people who have them like Grunt (assuming he survived).  This would give her body an area of normal pressure as well as protect the more sensitive areas like tongue and eyes from the effects of a vacuum. And and area the blood can find to normalize for lack of better word for it.

 

Added in Jack was experimented on a lot by Cerberus hoping to make the ultimate biotic warrior. The scars on her body are mute testament to that. Attempting to boost her biotic powers as well as increase her endurance. After all it would be silly to create a glass cannon if you are a group dedicated to advancing the cause of Humanity in the galactic theater. This is further shown to be true that Jack is the only human who can survive the Seeker Swarms in the final mission assuming you get her the upgrade.  Putting her on par with Samara/Morinth the only other options to go without any loss.  One of he key parts that separated Human from Asari biotics is that Asari are shown to be able to use them with much less strain on the body then humans.  Which means Jack's body is capable of sustaining more stress without causing a problem.

 

So even without using space magic as you call of it her biotic barrier protecting her. Her ability to surviving in a vacuum makes sense and isn't all that much of a stretch to start with. The reason NASA uses the suits is because there is more then just vacuum in space to deal with.  The ISS travels at around 17k MPH. If so much as a fleck of paint were to come loose and you were not traveling at the same speed as it. The effect would  be like getting shot only worse because how blood would pool inside you. Which hard suit or not bullet would in 0g would be bad. Shep would be just as fucked from that as Jack would be. But that is were Kinetic/Biotic barrier comes into play.

 

But that falls into the category of other things that I fully admit wouldn't protect her very well. But the only mission that shows them in space at least main story mode  is the Collector Ship/Base.  And those are not fully in a Vacuum other wise the Collectors wouldn't be able to exist. Upgraded by Reaper tech but they are still organic and would still need some form of air to survive.  There is no other mission even main missions for DLC  that has her in a pure vacuum.  Lair of the Shadow Broker, Project Firewalker, Operation Overlord and Arrival stories have her always in some sort of atmosphere or is Shep only.

 

Only do the side missions like destroy X group's mining operation or salvage X resources from abandoned camp does  her outfit of choice raise more eye brows then the normal amount risen when dealing with boob armor. Which I generally consider side missions non cannon game filler. As I can not see Shepard while trying to stop the collector's from abducting human colonies to stop at every Merc base in the entire Terminus system to mess with them. Maybe Garrus, maybe. Because those are the missions that enter into the realm heavily of other issues like the chlorine gas of the one planet.

 

I don't know who named the AI star child. Unless you are talking about the kid at the end. The Reaper AI wanted to talk to Shepard. It was under no obligation to assist or even show it's self. But it did. It fully admits that TIM couldn't control the Reapers because they already controlled him.  TIM would walk unprotected to them to confront Shep and Anderson. In deed the first act he does is render them immobile then forces Shep to shoot Anderson. Why would he need a barrier at that point? And why would someone with that power rush stupidity at someone who was completely helpless letting them out of their power?

 

It doesn't feed into IT at all on the Shep side. Reapers's are shown to be very subtle influence were you don't even know you are indoctrinated. Which is a refined eveolution of the Leviathan's control method which is complete domination of the mind so they have no idea of the time that has passed or the events which happen. TIM with what knowledge he has of the Reapers thanks to the experiments on Sanctuary and I'm sure other places has a control even less then Leviathan and Reaper.

 

This control was to obvious to be anything close to Reaper like. The control wasn't dominate enough to be Leviathan like.

[brfritos]

Yes, murder pistols. Shepard can use one on Ashley or Kaidan in ME3 as well. 

 

But there were problems with Shepard's murder pistol.... the one that killed Anderson and The Illusive Man..... it could not wound a Keeper. You remember the Keepers, right? They were supposed to simply disintegrate if you so much as disturbed them in ME1 so there was this "Please do not disturb the Keepers." But Saren's pistol blew one apart in ME1. Yours could not harm one in ME3. Inconsistencies like this gave rise to Indoctrination Theory. Or the idea that Shepard never made it to the Citadel in the first place and was instead laying on the ground in London bleeding out, having this dream as his/her last nightmare before perishing. 

 

 

Well, you already founded the answear one post after...

 

For reasons unknown EA/Bioware didn't follow the premisse left with the end of ME1 and decided to change the setting and put Shepard as our hero, god and... forget the pun... shepard. In ME1 we have our team, now we have Shepard and Shepard alone.

So now instead of a soldier belonging to a human military alliance trying to blend in and coexist in a universe full of other races, with his/her team that turn out friends in the end, we have a typical hero/heroine with all the cliches and tropes that belong to heroes.

 

I remember my first playthrough of ME1, because my very first playthrough was with a Engineer.

And the reason I remember is some time later I've found the ME Wiki and it was stated in HUGE LETTERS that starting your first playthrough with a engineer was not recommended. LOL

But you know what? I love the engineer class.

 

It's weak and totally dependable of your squadmates, but at the same time, you actually play stripping enemies defences and help your team mates finish them.

After you advance to level 30 Ashely and Wrex become powerfull and can finally handle things on their own.

I still have fond memories of Ash owning a Krogan Battlemaster when we were going to the citadel master control, while me and Tali were fighting one, Ash was dealing with the other. Even with the terrible AI!!!

Now fast-foward to ME2 and try to let your squadmates handle heavy enemies.

Like... a Scion.

 

Heck, in ME3 we don't even have the diference anymore between a tech class and a biotic class.

It's simply magic x guns.

 

 

 

The question is this: if all we need is a mask, why does NASA spend money on those expensive space suits? Because they are necessary to survive in a vacuum. Boob armor doesn't work.

 

Well, I'm not russian just to be clear, but russian cosmonauts have better suits than NASA if you think about it.

They are just resistant as and also are simplier, more pratical and appears to be cheap to be produced.

 

The movie "Gravity" makes one hell of a job portraiting the space and the equipment used.

 

As for surviving in space without protection, blame the typical movies.

 

The horror part in "Event Horizon" movie is one of the best I've ever seen.

The space depiction is one of the dumbest.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

We named the AI "Starbrat" because of the Original Ending, and our opinion of him doesn't change. He looks exactly like vent boy whom no one but Shepard sees, except he is translucent and glows. "Glowboy" was another term. "Starchild" was another term. You obviously weren't around then. It is obvious that you want to believe. 

 

Another instance of death by plot was Anderson - he wouldn't turn off his kinetic barrier despite the fact he said he was born in London four times. It was Keith ******* David. That stuff doesn't happen. 

 

And if you are so confident about being in space without a space suit, why don't you write NASA and tell them of your discovery and how they can save millions by sending astronauts into space without them. I'm sure the folks at NASA would be glad to provide you with an answer. Perhaps you want to volunteer to be their first breathing mask only experiment for a space walk? Are you so confident that you'd be willing to take that chance yourself? But I think you are just trolling this thread. The problem is right here in THIS .PDF FILE. It's the physical properties of water which makes up about 57.5% of the adult human body. As you can see, at zero atmospheres, water will boil at temperatures far below zero degrees meaning that you will not live long.... perhaps a minute before you begin to freeze dry. 

 

The thing about Jack was that she had to actively have her biotic barrier up like on the Collector ship. She didn't. And she can only maintain her biotic barrier for a limited time. It takes her mental energy. On the Normandy, there was an active kinetic barrier around Joker protecting him. You walked through it. But then you had to take Joker outside it and into the pod - exposure a few seconds. Then Shepard died from exposure to vacuum and hypoxia because of holes in his/her suit. There is no active kinetic barrier protecting the girls from the vacuum of space. The reactive kinetic barriers (game mechanic to stop bullets) was not functioning at the time because no projectiles were approaching. 

 

I can accept a certain amount of space magic for a space opera, but the space magic has to at least be consistent to be believable. 

 

The side missions are canon. Sorry. They get done whether you choose to do them or not. And it is also canon that your entire team goes with you - one of the devs mentioned this at a comicon. It's simply that the game engine couldn't handle it. You cannot cherry pick your lore.

 

@themikefest - I was thinking of the Bugs Bunny version of "I Dream Of Jeanie With The Light Brown Hair."

[Bowlcuts]

About to finish my third run of ME1 and I have something else. It has to do with Elanos Haliat in ME1 with the UNC: Espionage Probe.

Apparently, he was the instigator of the Skyllian Blitz which was a major attack on a human colony (Elysium) with the intention of completely annihilating it. Basically the opposing army was filled with a bunch of mercs, slavers and pirates, which were mainly Batarian.

 

So, why the hell is he human? I could understand maybe he's a dumb war-mongering zealot who only has one goal and it is power. But seriously? attacking A HUMAN colony, WITH BATARIANS? Not even greed can make you that illogically stupid.

Also, "Haliat"...Haliat armory? As in...the Turian manufacturer? I'm pretty sure Elanos is Turian related as well. Especially with the Turian vs Human thing going on since the First Contact War; doesn't make sense. Unless...he was meant to be a Turian? That would make sense if he was accidentally used as a human instead of a Turian. I remember in the conversation he said something to Shepard along the lines of "your kind" so...I'm going with the accidental use of a human instead of a Turian.

[ChronosTachyon]

http://imagine.gsfc....ace_travel.html

 

The issues brought up in your link are directly related to lack of breathable air for the body(ies) during their time in a vacuum/near vacuum. With access to a source of oxygen like say a breather mask like it shows her having she would be able to survive out in a vacuum naked. Now would it be the most comfortable feeling? Probably not but there are people who regularly dive and swim in frozen ponds in only their swimming trunks and people who can sit in saunas for 5+ hours at a time and survive.

 

 

A breather mask wouldn't be sufficient, because of how lungs work.  Your body doesn't pump air into the lungs; instead, it creates negative pressure by moving the diaphragm.  But negative pressure doesn't work inside a vacuum.  And on the flip side, your body does pump air out of the lungs.  But normally the 1 atm (well, 0.21 atm of pure O₂) in the lungs, which the lungs have to push against, is counterbalanced by 1 atm of pressure outside your body squeezing the lungs inward.  The muscles surrounding the lungs aren't powerful enough to exhale against a 1 atm (or even 0.21 atm) pressure deficit.  And that's not even getting into the alveoli popping.  Bottom line: you need a suit that, at the very least, pressurizes the thorax from the outside.

 

That said, you might get away without pressurizing the arms and legs.  The hands and feet would swell up and become useless for delicate work, but there probably wouldn't be any permanent damage.

[MrFob]

A breather mask wouldn't be sufficient, because of how lungs work.  Your body doesn't pump air into the lungs; instead, it creates negative pressure by moving the diaphragm.  But negative pressure doesn't work inside a vacuum.  And on the flip side, your body does pump air out of the lungs.  But normally the 1 atm (well, 0.21 atm of pure O₂) in the lungs, which the lungs have to push against, is counterbalanced by 1 atm of pressure outside your body squeezing the lungs inward.  The muscles surrounding the lungs aren't powerful enough to exhale against a 1 atm (or even 0.21 atm) pressure deficit.  And that's not even getting into the alveoli popping.  Bottom line: you need a suit that, at the very least, pressurizes the thorax from the outside.

 

That said, you might get away without pressurizing the arms and legs.  The hands and feet would swell up and become useless for delicate work, but there probably wouldn't be any permanent damage.

 

Maybe that's what Jack's leather belts are for.

 

@Korean Bowlcuts: Yep, the fact that Elanos Haliat has a human model is known to be a mistake by the dev who put the model into the game back in the day. Apparently he was supposed to be a turian.

[aoibhealfae]

Yeah, there's that visor and he mentioned humans in derogatory way which is really odd. Never actually like War Hero prehistory because of this.

[Han Shot First]

He also has the Turian voice filter effect going on. 

 

It is a shame the placeholder was never replaced in a patch. 

[Bowlcuts]

He also has the Turian voice filter effect going on. 

 

It is a shame the placeholder was never replaced in a patch. 

Yeah I figured as much. I guess he was actually suppose to be a Turian.

Wish it would of gotten resolved, would of made the Human/Turian conflict more heated.

[themikefest]

We named the AI "Starbrat" because of the Original Ending, and our opinion of him doesn't change. He looks exactly like vent boy whom no one but Shepard sees, except he is translucent and glows. "Glowboy" was another term. "Starchild" was another term. You obviously weren't around then. It is obvious that you want to believe. 

After Levaithan dlc was released, I called the thing, Leviathan Turd
 

The thing about Jack was that she had to actively have her biotic barrier up like on the Collector ship. She didn't. And she can only maintain her biotic barrier for a limited time.

Even Samara can't maintain it for a long period of time.
 

The side missions are canon. Sorry. They get done whether you choose to do them or not. And it is also canon that your entire team goes with you - one of the devs mentioned this at a comicon. It's simply that the game engine couldn't handle it. You cannot cherry pick your lore.

If BioWare can tell if Liara went to Noveria or not, couldn't they tell who went on what mission?
 

@themikefest - I was thinking of the Bugs Bunny version of "I Dream Of Jeanie With The Light Brown Hair."

The best cartoon character ever. I remember that as well. Good cartoon

[themikefest]

Miranda not rejoining the Normandy in ME3 irks me more than it should.

Its unfortunate she couldn't be back in her office on the Normandy. She can help figure out when Cerberus will strike next and where the headquarters is located. 

 

She would be required for Sanctuary. She still can die just like in the game depending on what dialogue Shepard chooses or doesn't choose. What about  having a tracer on Leng? What about it? It never made any difference. Alliance still attacks Chronos without any problems

 

 

Samara could've joined Shepard. Have her for the Monastery mission where it her that explains the ardat Yakshi thing instead of Liara.

 

Zaeed could join. He doesn't want to stand around on the Citadel doing nothing.

 

I don't see why Grunt couldn't of joined if his platoon survived.

[brfritos]

Anyone tried the GMM, Galaxy Map Mod (now renamed EGM, Extended Galaxy Mod)?

Interesting how modders can make the game better and the story more clear than devs did.

 

You have a goal for EVERY asset you search/acquire in the galaxy, the decisions in previous games have more weigh now, almost of all things - excep the ending - have a reason to exist like the MP classes and the changes implemented are totally lore friendly.

Actually they are more lore friendly than what it's in the game!

And it took only 6 moths for the modder to do this.

 

 

@themikefest

I did a similar playthrough once, but not totally psychotic like yours (Garrus and Mordin are alive, Wrex is dead since ME1)

Engineer Adams don't have a clue when he apologise to us, hun?

[RoboArigatou]

Anyone tried the GMM, Galaxy Map Mod (now renamed EGM, Extended Galaxy Mod)?

Interesting how modders can make the game better and the story more clear than devs did.

 

You have a goal for EVERY asset you search/acquire in the galaxy, the decisions in previous games have more weigh now, almost of all things - excep the ending - have a reason to exist like the MP classes and the changes implemented are totally lore friendly.

Actually they are more lore friendly than what it's in the game!

And it took only 6 moths for the modder to do this.

 

Wow, I've never even heard of EGM before. Seems awesome, thank's for linking it.

[gothpunkboy89]

A breather mask wouldn't be sufficient, because of how lungs work.  Your body doesn't pump air into the lungs; instead, it creates negative pressure by moving the diaphragm.  But negative pressure doesn't work inside a vacuum.  And on the flip side, your body does pump air out of the lungs.  But normally the 1 atm (well, 0.21 atm of pure O₂) in the lungs, which the lungs have to push against, is counterbalanced by 1 atm of pressure outside your body squeezing the lungs inward.  The muscles surrounding the lungs aren't powerful enough to exhale against a 1 atm (or even 0.21 atm) pressure deficit.  And that's not even getting into the alveoli popping.  Bottom line: you need a suit that, at the very least, pressurizes the thorax from the outside.

 

That said, you might get away without pressurizing the arms and legs.  The hands and feet would swell up and become useless for delicate work, but there probably wouldn't be any permanent damage.

 

 

Still not seeing how it wouldn't work. Considering the point of a breather mask would be an air tight seal around the nose and mouth providing breathable air. In the water the air has to be pressurized close to the same pressure as the water because the weight of the water presses against the chest. Which would prevent lower pressure air from being pulled in.

 

In a vacuum the pressure on the chest is negative.

 

Lungs are made out of elastic like material that once fully inflated naturally retract slightly pushing air out. The diaphragm is an internal muscle that basically goes up and down when we inhale or exhale. The muscles around the lungs aren't the only ones that help push air out of our lungs. the diaphragm does most of the work when combined with the elastic settings of the lungs internal make up.

 

I've been trying to google search to see your claim of a .21 atm difference between outside pressure and the independent pressure of what you are breathing would make it so you couldn't breath. The most obvious set up would be standing at sea level and trying to use a scuba tank pressurized to go down to 33 ft which would be a pressure of 2 atm on the chest. But can't seem to find anything on the subject.

[gothpunkboy89]

Anyone tried the GMM, Galaxy Map Mod (now renamed EGM, Extended Galaxy Mod)?

Interesting how modders can make the game better and the story more clear than devs did.

 

You have a goal for EVERY asset you search/acquire in the galaxy, the decisions in previous games have more weigh now, almost of all things - excep the ending - have a reason to exist like the MP classes and the changes implemented are totally lore friendly.

Actually they are more lore friendly than what it's in the game!

And it took only 6 moths for the modder to do this.

But what how wasn't the story clear? How did your decisions not have enough weight? How do the MP classes not have a reason to exist?

 

game moders are not under the same constraints as game developers. The biggest being time and budget constraints. I'm more then willing to bet hand any decent developer like Bioware a blank check and told to release it when ever they finally felt it was ready the game would be much different I'm sure.

 

There is also space issues as blue ray discs can hold up to about 50 gb of data. ME3 on it's own is about 30gb of data not counting DLC. Which I'm sure added another 5 maybe 6 gb of data for all SP and MP add ons.

 

And physical game copy > Digital game copy every time.

 

They also have the advantage of using preexisting content and altering it as much as they feel needed rather then having to build everything from  scratch.

[gothpunkboy89]

We named the AI "Starbrat" because of the Original Ending, and our opinion of him doesn't change. He looks exactly like vent boy whom no one but Shepard sees, except he is translucent and glows. "Glowboy" was another term. "Starchild" was another term. You obviously weren't around then. It is obvious that you want to believe. 

 

Another instance of death by plot was Anderson - he wouldn't turn off his kinetic barrier despite the fact he said he was born in London four times. It was Keith ******* David. That stuff doesn't happen. 

 

And if you are so confident about being in space without a space suit, why don't you write NASA and tell them of your discovery and how they can save millions by sending astronauts into space without them. I'm sure the folks at NASA would be glad to provide you with an answer. Perhaps you want to volunteer to be their first breathing mask only experiment for a space walk? Are you so confident that you'd be willing to take that chance yourself? But I think you are just trolling this thread. The problem is right here in THIS .PDF FILE. It's the physical properties of water which makes up about 57.5% of the adult human body. As you can see, at zero atmospheres, water will boil at temperatures far below zero degrees meaning that you will not live long.... perhaps a minute before you begin to freeze dry. 

 

The thing about Jack was that she had to actively have her biotic barrier up like on the Collector ship. She didn't. And she can only maintain her biotic barrier for a limited time. It takes her mental energy. On the Normandy, there was an active kinetic barrier around Joker protecting him. You walked through it. But then you had to take Joker outside it and into the pod - exposure a few seconds. Then Shepard died from exposure to vacuum and hypoxia because of holes in his/her suit. There is no active kinetic barrier protecting the girls from the vacuum of space. The reactive kinetic barriers (game mechanic to stop bullets) was not functioning at the time because no projectiles were approaching. 

 

I can accept a certain amount of space magic for a space opera, but the space magic has to at least be consistent to be believable. 

 

The side missions are canon. Sorry. They get done whether you choose to do them or not. And it is also canon that your entire team goes with you - one of the devs mentioned this at a comicon. It's simply that the game engine couldn't handle it. You cannot cherry pick your lore.

 

@themikefest - I was thinking of the Bugs Bunny version of "I Dream Of Jeanie With The Light Brown Hair."

 

Yes creating a child holograph as a show to appear in a non threatening form then the game developers saving time by reusing an existing game asset. Not like they ever pulled that before...oh wait Saren.

 

Anderson would have gotten hit hard just like the rest of the attack squad. Shepard got a direct hit and was in a much worse off. Simply looking at him shows he has been though hell to get to that point.  Odds are it simply wasn't working the same way your own barrier isn't working due to the blast you took.  It is another one of those moments were picking the fine line between game play mechanics and what actually happens when you strip those necessary mechanics for game play. For instance a 3 man team is able to tear into the heart of a Geth controlled Citadel despite that being the most heavily fortified part of the entire place. When more realistically the entire team is taking part in the assault similar to final mission in ME2. But for game play reasons it is limited to a 3 man squad.

 

Your skin protects most of the water in your body from the effect of the vacuum. Your skin would be effected but the majority of the water in and around your internal organs would be protected. Since you know the skin is fairly water right protective covering around your body. Other wise me living in Florida with it being 90 F for 300 days out of the year should have dried up years ago.  So since spending 3 or 4 hours outsides drinking at best half a gallon of water hasn't turned my internal organs into jerky yet. The same would apply here for the vacuum boiling effect.

 

Biotics also have physical endurance. Hence why the codex specifically states in game that biotics are given higher calorie meals as well as energy and juice drinks in combat to help them maintain their stamina. It is as much physical as mental when using biotics and Jack is the only human biotic at least on your team capable of standing toe to toe with Asari when blocking the seeker swarms. Not even Miranda who was created with the specific intention to have powerful biotics could do that.

 

There is a kinetic barrier around her head when she goes into combat in space much like what Joker had around his. It isn't very easy to see unless in cut scene with her in it.

 

But on that topic how many missions in ME2 take place in space?  Not just a planet/station with a thin atmosphere or incompatible air quality? The only mission I can remember taking place in space is the very beginning mission when you head to Joker to get him out.  The next two would be Reaper, Collector Ship/Base. Both of those had powerful ME fields to keep the gravity effect thus would maintain some form of atmosphere even if it was a weak one. Which still wouldn't be the vacuum of space.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Saren wasn't a reused existing game asset to make a character seem less threatening. Yes they reused the head model for the marauders and modified it. 

 

The entire Geth Heretic mission takes place in a vacuum. The Geth Dreadnought mission would also take place in a vacuum. Geth have no need for oxygen. It would be illogical for them to maintain an atmosphere to welcome their organic enemies. Any fire started would have to have been a bunch of electrical short circuits, not a regular fire. If there was atmosphere on the dreadnought it would have been absolutely stupid writing by Patrick Weekes, and....

 

if there is, it is another thing that doesn't make sense. lol. Of course the writers were not thinking like synthetics or machines. They were thinking like organics who need atmospheres to breathe. Geth do not breathe. 

 

But I'm through arguing this point about survival in a vacuum with you.

[Vortex13]

To go off the whole Geth ship design point, why do they even have docking ports, hatchways, walkways, ladders, catwalks, and access terminals in their ships and space stations? Geth are software, they have absolutely no need for such things.

 

If anything, Geth ships should have been the hardest vessels to take down, outside of the Reapers of course. All that saved space and energy from not having all those organic oriented features would have allowed them to have more armor, greater firepower, and superior maneuverability.

 

 

The Loa, a synthetic race in the Sword of the Stars universe had spacecraft that were completely immune to boarding actions, since they had no spaces to board. It would have made a heck of a lot more sense, and been very cool to boot, if the Geth had followed suit.

[Quarian Master Race]

 

To go off the whole Geth ship design point, why do they even have docking ports, hatchways, walkways, ladders, catwalks, and access terminals in their ships and space stations? Geth are software, they have absolutely no need for such things.

 

If anything, Geth ships should have been the hardest vessels to take down, outside of the Reapers of course. All that saved space and energy from not having all those organic oriented features would have allowed them to have more armor, greater firepower, and superior maneuverability.

 

 

The Loa, a synthetic race in the Sword of the Stars universe had spacecraft that were completely immune to boarding actions, since they had no spaces to board. It would have made a heck of a lot more sense, and been very cool to boot, if the Geth had followed suit.

You can ask the same question about why they continue to primarily use humanoid platforms (which the quarians probably made specifically for domestic service) for just about everything. In the first game the explanations were a little better (they aren't true AI's, thus aren't very smart/creative as we know it and are just starting to come up with solutions to problems other than the ones the quarians programmed them with), and they did at least have some seemingly dedicated combat platforms (armatures). However, later on they were written more and more to be anthropomorphic, loveable pinnochiobots that we can relate to, with a few "cool" features like talking in first person plural. All because something like this


Is easier to sympathize with than something more practical like this


When I did the geth fighter squadron mission, and the result of my shutting down the server was literal bipedal platforms collapsing at the controls of fighters, I wanted to laugh a little. Even SW droid fighters were controlled entirely by AI. Following on the successes and inherent design advantages of UAV's, it's likely manned fighters will be a thing of the past for organics sometime this century, but geth (and everyone else, for that matter) are still using them? Ridiculous.

[Vortex13]

 

 

You can ask the same question about why they continue to primarily use humanoid platforms (which the quarians probably made specifically for domestic service) for just about everything. In the first game the explanations were a little better (they aren't true AI's, thus aren't very smart/creative as we know it and are just starting to come up with solutions to problems other than the ones the quarians programmed them with), and they did at least have some seemingly dedicated combat platforms (armatures). However, later on they were written more and more to be anthropomorphic, loveable pinnochiobots that we can relate to, with a few "cool" features like talking in first person plural. All because something like this


Is easier to sympathize with than something more practical like this


When I did the geth fighter squadron mission, and the result of my shutting down the server was literal bipedal platforms collapsing at the controls of fighters, I wanted to laugh a little. Even SW droid fighters were controlled entirely by AI. Following on the successes and inherent design advantages of UAV's, it's likely manned fighters will be a thing of the past for organics sometime this century, but geth (and everyone else, for that matter) are still using them? Ridiculous.

 

 

 

People might not empathize as well with the second option, but its way more practical, and cooler to boot than the first option. 

[MrFob]

Yea, the geth thing is weird. In ME1, I bought it because there, it was made pretty clear that the geth didn't evolve much after the quarians left. If you read the codex entry on hoppers it says:

The quarians have no record of any geth models similar to hoppers. This new morphotype must have been developed over the last three hundred years by the geth themselves.

This implies to me that the geth didn't really evolve much (which is weird in its own way). But having fighters manned by robots is stupid even if the quarians still designed them. I mean, not even we put bipedal robots into into our drones today.

 

Oh and about the vacuum thing, hate to tell you gothpunkboy89 but you are indeed very much off base here with some of the stuff you assume in your posts. Basically, ChronosTachyon is right with his statements about breathing. You might be able to have some sort of active mask that varies air pressure in some way to push it into your lings and then reduce it to allow you to exhale (this would probably sound like Darth Vader's mask ) but even that would be extremely painful at the very least because of the constantly changing pressure differential in your chest cavity and your lungs (it would probably kill you very quickly). Just look up what happens to SCUBA divers who aren't careful and you'll get some idea of how important the proportion of inside and outside pressure is for breathing. Not to mention the other issue of boiling liquids in your body. Google "Armstrong limit" for more info on that (and also on the hypoxia issue).

If you still want to step into a vacuum with just a breathing mask after reading all that, well then good luck.

[ChronosTachyon]

Still not seeing how it wouldn't work. Considering the point of a breather mask would be an air tight seal around the nose and mouth providing breathable air. In the water the air has to be pressurized close to the same pressure as the water because the weight of the water presses against the chest. Which would prevent lower pressure air from being pulled in.

 

In a vacuum the pressure on the chest is negative.

 

Lungs are made out of elastic like material that once fully inflated naturally retract slightly pushing air out. The diaphragm is an internal muscle that basically goes up and down when we inhale or exhale. The muscles around the lungs aren't the only ones that help push air out of our lungs. the diaphragm does most of the work when combined with the elastic settings of the lungs internal make up.

 

I've been trying to google search to see your claim of a .21 atm difference between outside pressure and the independent pressure of what you are breathing would make it so you couldn't breath. The most obvious set up would be standing at sea level and trying to use a scuba tank pressurized to go down to 33 ft which would be a pressure of 2 atm on the chest. But can't seem to find anything on the subject.

 

The .21 atm thing is a reference to the fact that Earth's atmosphere is 21% oxygen.  You could actually get away with less than that, of course, but not a lot less.  All that matters is the partial pressure of O₂, which is why SCUBA divers have to change their gas ratios as their depth changes (higher total pressure, so reduce %O₂ to maintain equal O₂ partial pressure).

 

The fact that SCUBA divers use pressurized air is exactly my point.  The pressure inside the lungs has to equal the pressure outside the lungs for the lungs to work correctly.  If the pressure outside the lungs is less than .21 atm, then even 100% pure O₂ is not sufficient.  Having air in the respiratory tract isn't enough: the air must be cycled, rapidly, or CO₂ will build up.  And forcing .21 atm of pure O2 into your lungs, with the outside of your chest exposed to vacuum, would cause your lungs to expand like balloons, rupturing the alveoli and causing pulmonary edema.

[Quarian Master Race]

People might not empathize as well with the second option, but its way more practical, and cooler to boot than the first option. 

I think so as well. The geth would have been a cool concept if their whole shtick post ME1 didn't involve being relatable and gaining the sympathy of organics to be accepted as a real boy, and their platform/tech designs were actually unique and specialized compared to the organic species, form following function so to speak, instead of a bunch of inexplicable humanoid robots performing every task in their society. The humanoid form on an organic makes sense, it is an efficient general purpose answer to a lot of evolutionary problems surrounding the formation of sapience. Likewise, organics using it or other recognizable organic features for certain types of robots for the purpose of empathic familiarity is justifiable (it happens with some of our own robots both in fiction and reality). However it would serve no practical purpose if we A)lacked emotion and thus any attachment to any sort aesthetic and b)could somehow detach our minds from our body and build any platform we needed for any specific task we were performing. 

If Legion were like the second option instead of a wide eyed (the always moving and brightness modifying central flashlight is an obvious example of PuppyDogEyes) pinnochio with cute little face flaps designed deliberately to tug at my heartstrings, I wouldn't have disliked it so much. It seems dishonest as is, though, and that before you combine it the multiple literal examples of it attempting to deceive you, which made me think its design was more insidious than cute.

[MrFob]

I think so as well. The geth would have been a cool concept if their whole shtick post ME1 didn't involve being relatable and gaining the sympathy of organics to be accepted as a real boy, and their platform/tech designs were actually unique and specialized compared to the organic species, form following function so to speak, instead of a bunch of inexplicable humanoid robots performing every task in their society. The humanoid form on an organic makes sense, it is an efficient general purpose answer to a lot of evolutionary problems surrounding the formation of sapience. Likewise, organics using it or other recognizable organic features for certain types of robots for the purpose of empathic familiarity is justifiable (it happens with some of our own robots both in fiction and reality). However it would serve no practical purpose if we A)lacked emotion and thus any attachment to any sort aesthetic and b)could somehow detach our minds from our body and build any platform we needed for any specific task we were performing. 

If Legion were like the second option instead of a wide eyed (the always moving and brightness modifying central flashlight is an obvious example of PuppyDogEyes) pinnochio with cute little face flaps designed deliberately to tug at my heartstrings, I wouldn't have disliked it so much. It seems dishonest as is, though, and that before you combine it the multiple literal examples of it attempting to deceive you, which made me think its design was more insidious than cute.

 

Well, I can get behind Legion since their platform's purpose is specifically to venture into the space of organics, interact with them and ultimately find Shepard. It makes sense that they would create a platform for that purpose that can easily be anthropomorphized, making negotiations a whole lot easier for them.

 

I can also get behind the fact that even after 300 years, the geth's appearance would still be heavily influenced by the original quarian designs. On the one hand because those existed and were proved effective and on the other hand because ti may have had something to do with the rather complicated geth psychology that we learn about in ME2. Just because they are an AI doesn't mean that they cannot be sentimental.

 

I also disagree that it is the geth's shtick to play the Pinocchio card. This development only started very radically in ME3. In ME2, from what we learn from Legion, they are very different from humans (in fact, I think the ME2 geth are probably the most "alien" species in the series). Legion in ME2 is not at all about - as you put it - "being relatable and gaining the sympathy of organics". On the contrary, when we talk to him/it on the Normandy or also during the LM, he frequently points out that organics cannot relate to the geth very well and why. What you are talking about is mainly an ME3 phenomenon (but when it hits, it does hit hard).

 

Personally, I like the ME2 geth the best, they were the most thought provoking iteration of the geth within the ME story.