1395 réponses à ce sujet

[Vortex13]

I think so as well. The geth would have been a cool concept if their whole shtick post ME1 didn't involve being relatable and gaining the sympathy of organics to be accepted as a real boy, and their platform/tech designs were actually unique and specialized compared to the organic species, form following function so to speak, instead of a bunch of inexplicable humanoid robots performing every task in their society. The humanoid form on an organic makes sense, it is an efficient general purpose answer to a lot of evolutionary problems surrounding the formation of sapience. Likewise, organics using it or other recognizable organic features for certain types of robots for the purpose of empathic familiarity is justifiable (it happens with some of our own robots both in fiction and reality). However it would serve no practical purpose if we A)lacked emotion and thus any attachment to any sort aesthetic and b)could somehow detach our minds from our body and build any platform we needed for any specific task we were performing. 

If Legion were like the second option instead of a wide eyed (the always moving and brightness modifying central flashlight is an obvious example of PuppyDogEyes) pinnochio with cute little face flaps designed deliberately to tug at my heartstrings, I wouldn't have disliked it so much. It seems dishonest as is, though, and that before you combine it the multiple literal examples of it attempting to deceive you, which made me think its design was more insidious than cute.

 

 

While a humanoid form would be beneficial in several instances, I can't think of any real advantage the Geth gained from such a "rigid" design as their standard platform, compared to something like AMME (from that forgettable Val Kilmer movie Red Planet).

 

 

 

Something like that would have been way more practical as a general purpose platform than one with the same general flexibility and range of motion as a humanoid organic.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

What was the point in the Geth plot anyway?

 

1) The Geth had decided to be the best machines they could be and form a Dyson Sphere to reach their technological singularity. Once this was completed there would be no need to interact with organics. Even the reapers would have been threatened. 

 

2) So why was Legion even needed? Was it because Nazara approached them and they reached a consensus that organics would eventually seek their aid and needed to understand organics.

 

3) Then the Quarians.... this one is on the council. The Quarians are the homeless of the galaxy. Regardless of what happened 300 years earlier, this is what they represent. They want a homeworld, and since that was never offered. They want what was once theirs. If one reads the wikia, they were beginning to have difficulty mating. Their ships were very old. They went all in. 

[Vortex13]

I also disagree that it is the geth's shtick to play the Pinocchio card. This development only started very radically in ME3. In ME2, from what we learn from Legion, they are very different from humans (in fact, I think the ME2 geth are probably the most "alien" species in the series). Legion in ME2 is not at all about - as you put it - "being relatable and gaining the sympathy of organics". On the contrary, when we talk to him/it on the Normandy or also during the LM, he frequently points out that organics cannot relate to the geth very well and why. What you are talking about is mainly an ME3 phenomenon (but when it hits, it does hit hard).

 

Personally, I like the ME2 geth the best, they were the most thought provoking iteration of the geth within the ME story.

 

 

Same here, though I personally see the (ME 2) Geth and the Rachni tied for first place in terms of most 'alien' alien in the series. 

 

It's really sad to see all that creative effort that Chris L'Etoile, put into making the Geth unique and 'alien' in ME 2 get thrown out the airlock and bastardized into the very dull and trite Pinocchio trope in ME 3; though you could see evidence of that annoying meddling back in the second title what with Legion and it's idolization of Shepard and all.

[Quarian Master Race]

What was the point in the Geth plot anyway?

 

1) The Geth had decided to be the best machines they could be and form a Dyson Sphere to reach their technological singularity. Once this was completed there would be no need to interact with organics. Even the reapers would have been threatened. 

 

2) So why was Legion even needed? Was it because Nazara approached them and they reached a consensus that organics would eventually seek their aid and needed to understand organics.

 

3) Then the Quarians.... this one is on the council. The Quarians are the homeless of the galaxy. Regardless of what happened 300 years earlier, this is what they represent. They want a homeworld, and since that was never offered. They want what was once theirs. If one reads the wikia, they were beginning to have difficulty mating. Their ships were very old. They went all in. 

feels for the magic robots and a touching metaphor for "slavery".

It's made even more stupid when you discover in ME2 that it is entirely possible to introduce programming limitations on what even a highly advanced AI like EDI can and can't do (they call them "shackles" because again its obviously synonymous with slavery) and they will apparently follow them to the letter unless you deliberately disable that function. There never would have been any sort of conflict for the Reapers to come up with a "solution" to at all if anyone had bothered to think up something as simple as what Asimov did in the 40s.

And yeah, the way the galaxy treats the quarians isn't even really sad viewed from behind the 4th wall, because it's so poorly written, and utterly unbelievable as a result. Stripped of political representation and allowed to suffer on a massive scale for what was in effect an industrial accident (akin to kicking Japan out of the UN for Fukushima Daichii, except if it had killed 99.5% of the country's population), and live in hardship for generation after generation. It isn't a lifestyle they are choosing, to slowly die out (Ascencion gives the species 90 more years), they are being actively barred from settling anywhere (in one case at threat of war) due to blatant institutionalized racism.

It's just comical, pantomime even. I work in MI, and if someone Afghanistan or Syria came up to me asking for asylum in exchange for critical national security information, and in response I called them a racial slur and told them to get lost, I'd be fired. The Nazis were less blatantly awful, as they at least attempted to justify it with bunk science. Real racism in modern society is a lot more subtle and insidious than something like that, but Biower doesn't do anything except the hamfist treatment.

[Quarian Master Race]

Well, I can get behind Legion since their platform's purpose is specifically to venture into the space of organics, interact with them and ultimately find Shepard. It makes sense that they would create a platform for that purpose that can easily be anthropomorphized, making negotiations a whole lot easier for them.

 

I can also get behind the fact that even after 300 years, the geth's appearance would still be heavily influenced by the original quarian designs. On the one hand because those existed and were proved effective and on the other hand because ti may have had something to do with the rather complicated geth psychology that we learn about in ME2. Just because they are an AI doesn't mean that they cannot be sentimental.

 

I also disagree that it is the geth's shtick to play the Pinocchio card. This development only started very radically in ME3. In ME2, from what we learn from Legion, they are very different from humans (in fact, I think the ME2 geth are probably the most "alien" species in the series). Legion in ME2 is not at all about - as you put it - "being relatable and gaining the sympathy of organics". On the contrary, when we talk to him/it on the Normandy or also during the LM, he frequently points out that organics cannot relate to the geth very well and why. What you are talking about is mainly an ME3 phenomenon (but when it hits, it does hit hard).

 

Personally, I like the ME2 geth the best, they were the most thought provoking iteration of the geth within the ME story.

If the geth were to make any sense at all they wouldn't be sentimental. Sentiment is a result of emotion, which the geth should lack entirely as a result of not possessing sentience (i.e. the ability to feel physical qualia subjectively, not the Scifi "sentience" the games often use, which simply seems to mean "smart enough to talk"). From the horse (l'Etoile's) mouth.

"Emotions would ruin the uniqueness of the geth. They're not humans. They're not organics, at the mercy of hormones and subjective senses. They're Different.

Geth are comfortable with what they are. They accept that organics are different, and that their way is not suited for organics (and vice versa). IMO, only an intelligence divorced from emotion could be so completely accepting. Geth are the essence of impartiality. If you pay attention to Legion's dialogue, you'll note it uses "judge" and judgment" quite often. I went out of my way to use that word, since judges in our society are supposed to impartial and unaffected by emotion when they make their decisions.

I wanted to treat AI with more respect than the tired Pinocchio "I want to be a Real Boy" cliches of Commander Data. The geth are machines. There's absolutely no reason they should want to be organics. They should be allowed to be strong enough to want to better themselves, not change themselves.

A geth wanting emotions would be no less disrespectful a character than a black man who wanted to be white."



However, l'Etoile did not get his way over the other writes, and the Pinnochio card was very much in Legion's schtick from the beginning.

"The truth is that the armor was a decision imposed on me. The concept artists decided to put a hole in the geth. Then, in a moment of whimsy, they spackled a bit Shep's armor over it. Someone who got paid a lot more money than me decided that was really cool and insisted on the hole and the N7 armor. So I said, okay, Legion gets taken down when you meet it, so it can get the hole then, and weld on a piece of Shep's armor when it reactivates to represent its integration with Normandy's crew (when integrating aboard a new geth ship, it would swap memories and runtimes, not physical hardware).

But Higher Paid decided that it would be cooler if Legion were obsessed with Shepard, and stalking him. That didn't make any sense to me -- to be obsessed, you have to have emotions. The geth's whole schtick is -- to paraphrase Legion -- "We do not experience (emotions), but we understand how (they) affect you." All I could do was downplay the required "obsession" as much as I could."

The N7 armor piece (which l'Etoile ralied against unsuccessfully) and the exchange around Legion "stalking" Shepard and admiring them are the best example of ME2. In general it elucidates on several actions that don't make sense if the geth were to operate on pure logic from the beginning, but most people only started to notice in ME3 when Legion's original writer left and their anthropomorphism became blatantly obvious. It's dialogue about how geth operate and the supposed resulting misunderstandings ends up being Rule of Cool window dressing given its actions, just like its religious adherence to 1st person plural pronouns despite the fact that it is designed to facilitate communication with organic individuals. I laughed a little when it tried to explain how geth don't understand the concept of subterfuge on Heretic Station, then it immediately went and tried to clandestinely steal Tali's omni-tool data 2 seconds after the mission. Legion must've had the robot eqivalent of Dissociatave Identity Disorder.

If I had to pick I'd say ME1 geth were best. They had no desire to understand, nor communicate with organics, because there was no need for it, and had a way of cognition that was truly alien (I had no problem understanding anything about Legion's description of the geth behavior because it is just a bunch of blatant analouges to human characteristics). They were isolationist and hostile to organics who entered "their" territory, but not following an expansionist "exterminate all meatbags" directive like Skynet or something, until the Reapers arrived. Admittedly, them "worshipping" Sovereign was still really stupid (strangely enough, ME2 fixed this obvious example of an emotional response by reducing it to a simple and possibly deliberately introduced rounding error in the coding of the Heretics). ME3's writing ruined the entire sub arc between them and the quarians. If the geth were all so harmless, well intentioned, and easy to communicate their demands with as Legion seems to indicate, the Morning War being anything worse than all the pro geth quarians wiping out the anti-geth quarians with geth assistance doesn't make any sense (considering the geth easily won the initial conflict). More likely, there wouldn't have been any conflict at all and we wouldn't have had to wait 300 years for Space Jesus to give a feely speech for everyone to magically get along. 99.5% of a species certainly wouldn't have died off in a single year. Even with WMDs that's demographically impossible to do without some very genocidal intentions and the will to carry them out, short of smashing asteroids into Rannoch's surface, which didn't happen (Revelation states that the geth simply kept manufacturing and throwing billions of platforms at the quarians until they were all dead by simple attrition). Them just not valuing individuality or considering the lives of organics worthy of any moral consideration (as they didn't previously in killing everything that entered their space, including Council peace envoys )makes a lot more sense than them "defending" themselves from quarian infants and geriatrics carrying assault rifles due to a misunderstanding.

It also still makes no sense that if the geth wished to be peacfully isolationist that they wouldn't just go live on some asteroids far from organic interference, rather than occupying their planets, but that's just another example stupidity in the writing of the arc.

[Vortex13]

And yeah, the way the galaxy treats the quarians isn't even really sad viewed from behind the 4th wall, because it's so poorly written, and utterly unbelievable as a result. Stripped of political representation and allowed to suffer on a massive for what was in effect an industrial accident (akin to kicking Japan out of the UN for Fukushima Daichii, except if it had killed 99.5% of the country's population), and live in hardship for generation after generation. It isn't a lifestyle they are choosing, to slowly die out (Ascencion gives the species 90 more years), they are being actively barred from settling anywhere (in one case at threat of war) due to blatant institutionalized racism.

It's just comical, pantomime even. I work in MI, and if someone Afghanistan or Syria came up to me asking for asylum in exchange for critical national security information, and in response I called them a racial slur and told them to get lost, I'd be fired. The Nazis were less blatantly awful, as they at least attempted to justify it with bunk science. Real racism in modern society is a lot more subtle and insidious than something like that, but Biower doesn't do anything except the hamfist treatment.

 

 

It's funny that the overall narrative views the general treatment of the galaxy at large towards the Quarians as (more or less) acceptable, but views the treatment of the Krogan as the greatest evil to have ever plagued the face of the Milky Way. 

 

 

 

The Krogan, after instigating a war of aggression on the galaxy, and causing widespread devastation; including the destruction of three garden worlds belonging to a species that wasn't even a part of the government that they had a grievance with; engage in a brutal decades long war with the rest of the galaxy. Over the course of this bloody campaign the Krogan cause the deaths of countless thousands in their unprovoked war, and the treatment of their victims aren't pretty; there are mentions of how the Krogan would actually kill and eat other sentient species, like the Salarians, for sport.

 

Still, after all of that, the Krogan regularly receive shipments of food and supplies from the Turians. Meanwhile the Salarians work to build and maintain a facility that allows the Krogan home world to be even remotely livable. Even the Genophage; the Krogan's "punishment" is not that bad, seeing as how it isn't even a sterility plague, all it does is lower viable birthrate to pre-idustiral levels. The Krogan can still have babies and are in no danger of going extinct. Modern Krogan can freely go to other planets and are generally welcome among mercenary bands and pirate/gang crews. They even are welcome in other less stereotypical ways as well; you don't see anyone giving Char grief for being a Krogan poet.  

 

 

 

The Quarians on the other hand, have a crisis arise solely on their worlds, one that (mostly) targets them mind you, and despite going to the galactic government and asking for help, the Quarians are instead ejected from the Council, refused military aid or even relief efforts, and slammed with sanctions and embargoes. Then, once this crisis has completely overwhelmed them and forced the Quarians to evacuate their home world or face actual extinction, they are still treated with disdain and distrust by the galaxy at large. This treatment is extended to include flat refusals for any planets that could serve as a new colony, forcing the Quarians to remain aboard their Migrant Fleet.

 

Modern Quarians are viewed with suspicion by the galaxy, and they are commonly harassed when traveling on their own. 

 

 

 

 

So brutally murdering (and eating) other members of galactic society, as well as causing untold destruction and chaos over the course of several decades = General acceptance and active aid by said members of galactic society. While, asking for aid involving an isolated catastrophe, effecting only specific worlds = all round distrust and second class citizenship. Sounds fair.

 

 

I guess it's the Quarian's fault for not being around to fight some scary space bugs. Space bugs who arguably caused less damage to the galaxy as a whole than the Krogan did. 

[MrFob]

Why shouldn't AI have some equivalent to emotion? As far as I can see there is no reason that it's impossible. It also doesn't mean that they would need to want to become more human or whatever, just because of it. It doesn't really diminish the portrayal of AIs in my book.

 

Also, is that quoted thing from Chris L'Etoille's posts about the geth? Because if so, I think he didn't quite adhere to his own rule there. Legion tells us that the geth do care about the quarians. For example, they keep Rannoch prestene, even though there really is no logical reason for it. The geth do have a psychology in ME2 and that includes emotion and sentiment, whether intended or not. That is not bad per se, nor does it mean that they are Pinnochio rip-offs. Their priorities and the processes through which they integrate emotion with logic clearly seem to be different from organics. I'd say that if their is a difference, they seem to be able to compartmentalize better and to analyse their own emotional response (which would actually make a lot of sense in the terms of a cooperative consciousness of many individual programs/minds). So I'd say they are still 'alien' even though they may experience things like sentiment under certain circumstances.

 

I also don't think the N7 armor thing counts as playing the Pinocchio card. True, it got shoved onto legion by the higher-ups (also according to comments in the art book) but I think L'Etoille handled it pretty well. From the dialogue we have, one can interpret it as Legion just using the available material for necessary repairs. When Shep keeps asking why, he goes with "No data available." Now, you can interpret that as some deeper meaning but you might as well just go with "there is just nothing more to it". (which is how I always saw it).

 

Also the geth never were intended as super isolationist from what I saw. Yes, they want to determine their own future but they do seem to have a certain amount of curiosity about organics (remember that experiment they ran with that message about some salarian goddess or whatever). The fact that they are building a dyson sphere to hold all geth wasn't necessarily a means to isolate themselves but to enable all programs to interact simultaneously and therefore maximize their processing power(i.e. "intelligence"). It's been a while since I played ME2 but from what I remember, not even they had an idea what would happen then (at least Legion never discusses anything beyond this goal).

 

Certainly not all questions about the geth have been answered by the end of ME2. Unfortunately, due to their treatment in ME3, we'll never find out the rest.

 

The ME1 geth were ok but they were a bit too much of a throw-away mook race for me to be really interesting. The new perspective that we get in ME2 was a welcome change to that.

 

Agree with you about the quarians by the way. They are being screwed over big time. Although, I may remember this wrong but wasn't one major problem with resettling on a different world that they would still need to wear the suits basically forever (immune system yadayada)? Still, even if that's the case, it should still have been an improvement to settle somewhere and 17 million, they don't even need an entire planet, if there is none available, just give them a continent on some colony, it's not like there is not enough space when there are entire garden worlds with less than 40.000 people on them (e.g. Therum).

[gothpunkboy89]

Saren wasn't a reused existing game asset to make a character seem less threatening. Yes they reused the head model for the marauders and modified it. 

 

The entire Geth Heretic mission takes place in a vacuum. The Geth Dreadnought mission would also take place in a vacuum. Geth have no need for oxygen. It would be illogical for them to maintain an atmosphere to welcome their organic enemies. Any fire started would have to have been a bunch of electrical short circuits, not a regular fire. If there was atmosphere on the dreadnought it would have been absolutely stupid writing by Patrick Weekes, and....

 

if there is, it is another thing that doesn't make sense. lol. Of course the writers were not thinking like synthetics or machines. They were thinking like organics who need atmospheres to breathe. Geth do not breathe. 

 

But I'm through arguing this point about survival in a vacuum with you.

 

Saren looks the same at the start of the game as he does at the end of the game. He is obviously suppose to (or should) look much more Turian then he actually does then after Virmine get that Reaper upgrade.  But from the instant you see him he looks completely Reaper remade. Honestly all Shepard should have needed after Eden Prime is a photo of a Husk. Then at the meeting just show the photo and how Saren looks almost exactly like one of them. Tail shouldn't have been needed.

 

But they didn't do that they used the same final Saren look that is his final fully "improved" self. AKA they created the final look of Saren after Sovergin got a hold of them then simply reused that asset in the game without bother to create another version of him. Most likely to save time.

 

Legion states "Alert. This has little air or gravity. Geth require neither."  Little is the key word as little is not the same as a vacum.

 

Geth Dreadnought would need some air in it for cooling purposes. A vacuum is a very poor reducer of heat. That is why containers designed to keep things hot or cold will often have a vacuum seal between the inner and outer wall. Those giant cherry read heat retainers from the UV lasers that produce more head then IR ones would simply melt if left in a complete vacuum as there would be no way for it to really shed any excess heat.  Now it wouldn't have to be overly filled with atmosphere to the point an organic could walk around without a breathing mask.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

 

Legion states "Alert. This has little air or gravity. Geth require neither."  Little is the key word as little is not the same as a vacum.

 

Geth Dreadnought would need some air in it for cooling purposes. A vacuum is a very poor reducer of heat. That is why containers designed to keep things hot or cold will often have a vacuum seal between the inner and outer wall. Those giant cherry read heat retainers from the UV lasers that produce more head then IR ones would simply melt if left in a complete vacuum as there would be no way for it to really shed any excess heat.  Now it wouldn't have to be overly filled with atmosphere to the point an organic could walk around without a breathing mask.

 

Liquid coolant is much more efficient than air. The "little air" was put there for the benefit of the organics. Walking around with a breathing mask we've established being .29 atmospheres and the air needed to breathe under those conditions is pure oxygen, thus providing more O2 than is available at 10,000 ft elevation. Having vacuum would be deadly to those in boob armor, thus indicating that this was for the purpose of welcoming organics aboard for the purpose of blowing the station to smithereens or rewriting the Heretics. Bad Writing Theory wins again.

 

Plus it gave Legion more opportunity to act cute. 

 

The "No data available." is the passive aggressive writing response for "I don't know why some higher up forced me to write this crap."

 

And what else doesn't make any sense at all is why the Geth VI which is the version of Legion that NEVER left the Consensus to explore the galaxy has a hole in the armor but has a "hologram" sealing it. BioWare should have used a regular Geth for it. But I guess they thought it would be cute for Shepard to be calling the thing "Legion" and for Tali to continually reminding Shepard "that is not Legion" and Shepard being a dumb*** about it.

[gothpunkboy89]

Why shouldn't AI have some equivalent to emotion? As far as I can see there is no reason that it's impossible. It also doesn't mean that they would need to want to become more human or whatever, just because of it. It doesn't really diminish the portrayal of AIs in my book.

 

Also, is that quoted thing from Chris L'Etoille's posts about the geth? Because if so, I think he didn't quite adhere to his own rule there. Legion tells us that the geth do care about the quarians. For example, they keep Rannoch prestene, even though there really is no logical reason for it. The geth do have a psychology in ME2 and that includes emotion and sentiment, whether intended or not. That is not bad per se, nor does it mean that they are Pinnochio rip-offs. Their priorities and the processes through which they integrate emotion with logic clearly seem to be different from organics. I'd say that if their is a difference, they seem to be able to compartmentalize better and to analyse their own emotional response (which would actually make a lot of sense in the terms of a cooperative consciousness of many individual programs/minds). So I'd say they are still 'alien' even though they may experience things like sentiment under certain circumstances.

 

I also don't think the N7 armor thing counts as playing the Pinocchio card. True, it got shoved onto legion by the higher-ups (also according to comments in the art book) but I think L'Etoille handled it pretty well. From the dialogue we have, one can interpret it is Legion just using the available material for necessary repairs. When Shep keeps asking why, he goes with "No data available." Now, you can interpret that as some deeper meaning but you might as well just go with "there is just nothing more to it". (which is how I always saw it).

 

 

I always figured they kept Rannoch untouched because they had no use for it. It would take more energy to lift ships out of the atmosphere. it would be easier to gain resources like solar power from space. Reducing the air in the space stations would limit damages if a fire broke out. And it is much easier to mine asteroids that are made up of primarily of certain minerals then digging tons of soil out of the way to process it on the planet.

 

 

 

Like wise the N7 armor and the fact he was following him wasn't obsession. Geth learned he helped defeat the one of the Old Ones. If they figured there would be more coming and they would pose a threat to the Geth. Sending a unit out to try and make contact with Shepard makes sense.  Sacrifice a few Geth programs but create an ally that could help with the protection of the greater Geth collective if it came down to it.   N7 armor bit is more just to indicate Legion is unique among Geth. Left alone out side of the Geth Consensus for 2 years. It would see things and come to conclusions the rest of the Geth wouldn't because they didn't share those experiences yet.  Which is later reinforced with the Heretics.  They split because they came to different conclusions. Their time apart lead them down very divergent paths because they saw and experienced different things. Hence Legion's confusion about why the Heretics were monitoring the Geth.

[MrFob]

I always figured they kept Rannoch untouched because they had no use for it. It would take more energy to lift ships out of the atmosphere. it would be easier to gain resources like solar power from space. Reducing the air in the space stations would limit damages if a fire broke out. And it is much easier to mine asteroids that are made up of primarily of certain minerals then digging tons of soil out of the way to process it on the planet.

As I said, it's been a while but from memory, there was something in Legion's dialogue that implied more than just logical reasons for keeping the planet in order. Besides, if we go by pure logic, the question arises why they stayed at all and kept the planet ready for organic habitation?
 

Like wise the N7 armor and the fact he was following him wasn't obsession. Geth learned he helped defeat the one of the Old Ones. If they figured there would be more coming and they would pose a threat to the Geth. Sending a unit out to try and make contact with Shepard makes sense.  Sacrifice a few Geth programs but create an ally that could help with the protection of the greater Geth collective if it came down to it.   N7 armor bit is more just to indicate Legion is unique among Geth. Left alone out side of the Geth Consensus for 2 years. It would see things and come to conclusions the rest of the Geth wouldn't because they didn't share those experiences yet.  Which is later reinforced with the Heretics.  They split because they came to different conclusions. Their time apart lead them down very divergent paths because they saw and experienced different things. Hence Legion's confusion about why the Heretics were monitoring the Geth.

 
Yep, this was my interpretation as well, for why they sent Legion after Shep. The N7 armor piece, whatever. I think Julia has it down right with L'Etoille being passive-aggressive. But I don't have a problem with the armor piece. It doesn't really contradict anything so it's fine by me.

[gothpunkboy89]

Liquid coolant is much more efficient than air. The "little air" was put there for the benefit of the organics. Walking around with a breathing mask we've established being .29 atmospheres and the air needed to breathe under those conditions is pure oxygen, thus providing more O2 than is available at 10,000 ft elevation. Having vacuum would be deadly to those in boob armor, thus indicating that this was for the purpose of welcoming organics aboard for the purpose of blowing the station to smithereens or rewriting the Heretics. Bad Writing Theory wins again.

 

Plus it gave Legion more opportunity to act cute. 

 

The "No data available." is the passive aggressive writing response for "I don't know why some higher up forced me to write this crap."

 

And what else doesn't make any sense at all is why the Geth VI which is the version of Legion that NEVER left the Consensus to explore the galaxy has a hole in the armor but has a "hologram" sealing it. BioWare should have used a regular Geth for it. But I guess they thought it would be cute for Shepard to be calling the thing "Legion" and for Tali to continually reminding Shepard "that is not Legion" and Shepard being a dumb*** about it.

 

 

Yes it is more efficient. How ever it starts to become impractical when dealing with what appears to be 10-20 foot glowing orange heat sinks for the lasers.  A little bit of atmosphere in there would allow it to shed excess heat into the surrounding air allowing it to cool slightly on top of what ever other thermal regulation they use to keep the metal from melting under the heat.

 

The breather mask would contain pure oxygen or what ever mixture is deemed necessary for respiration. But the presence of an atmosphere which isn't pure oxygen as that would cause a fire with those glowing orange heat exchanges would be able to support boob armor. Even though we all know boob armor is ridiculous set up to be using. It would be possible.  Which is the point of this. Not that boob armor is practical but that it is possible.  It is possible to transmit electricity though the air without need for wires. How ever it isn't very practical as it has a very very short range and the machine that generates and distributes the power is very loud.

 

Or No data available is a little joke they make.  I always found it quite humorous that is his responds to Shepard.

 

Because Legion never being activated or killed in the final mission means all the data it recorded since it left was never transferred to the Collective.  Also if the VI acted exactly like Legion did then selling him or having him killed off would be pointless. There would be no repercussion to those actions.

[gothpunkboy89]

As I said, it's been a while but from memory, there was something in Legion's dialogue that implied more than just logical reasons for keeping the planet in order. Besides, if we go by pure logice, the question arises why they stayed at all and kept the planet ready for organic habitation?
 

 

ME3 yea I think Legion mentions something about keeping the planet intact in honor or memory of the Quarians who gave up their own lives to try and help the Geth. And encase the Quarians ever returned to allow them to recolonize it. Assuming of course they don't go in guns blazing.  As the Geth really have no need for a planet since they exist in servers that could be kept in much more defensible locations in space.

[monicasubzero]

I will always be bugged by the presence of the human Reaper during the SM in ME2. I tried to figure it out, but I really can't.

[Iakus]

 

I also disagree that it is the geth's shtick to play the Pinocchio card. This development only started very radically in ME3. In ME2, from what we learn from Legion, they are very different from humans (in fact, I think the ME2 geth are probably the most "alien" species in the series). Legion in ME2 is not at all about - as you put it - "being relatable and gaining the sympathy of organics". On the contrary, when we talk to him/it on the Normandy or also during the LM, he frequently points out that organics cannot relate to the geth very well and why. What you are talking about is mainly an ME3 phenomenon (but when it hits, it does hit hard).

 

Personally, I like the ME2 geth the best, they were the most thought provoking iteration of the geth within the ME story.

Agreed.  In ME2 the geth were very different from organics, and were fine with that.  They had no particular desire to war on them, and ultimately just wanted to be left alone.

 

It's in ME3 where suddenly it was decided you weren't really alive unless you were organic, or at least partly so.

[Iakus]

As I said, it's been a while but from memory, there was something in Legion's dialogue that implied more than just logical reasons for keeping the planet in order. Besides, if we go by pure logic, the question arises why they stayed at all and kept the planet ready for organic habitation?
 

I believe Legion said they restored Rannoch and preserved it as a memorial to their Creators.  I believe he compared it to places like Arlington Cemetery.

 

Edit:  Aha, here it is;

 

Legion: We maintain mobile platforms on creator worlds to clean rubble and toxins left by the Morning War.  We know of similar actions by humans on Earth.

Shepard: Similar actions?

Legion: At Wadi-es-Salaam.  Arlington.  Rookwood.  Tyne Cot.  Piskarevskoye.  Auschwitz-Birkenau.

Shepard: Those are cemeteries.  Memorials.

Legion: It is important to your species to preserve them, though you do not use the land.  Can you explain?

Shepard: The living visit those places to remember the dead.  But it sounds like geth don't die.  Your memories live on.

Legion: The creators died.  Perhaps we do it for them.

[Bowlcuts]

After playing ME2 on Insanity, I'm pretty sure more than 50% of the combat mechanics make no logical sense.

Example: Can't use incinerate, target is protected by shields. Geth Destroyer/Vorcha Pyro appears with a flamethrower...my shields get destroyed instantly.

That's just one example. Yeah yeah I know who cares. Just something that doesn't make sense and grinds my gears sometimes.

[Arisugawa]

I believe Legion said they restored Rannoch and preserved it as a memorial to their Creators.  I believe he compared it to places like Arlington Cemetery.

 

Edit:  Aha, here it is;

 

Legion: We maintain mobile platforms on creator worlds to clean rubble and toxins left by the Morning War.  We know of similar actions by humans on Earth.

Shepard: Similar actions?

Legion: At Wadi-es-Salaam.  Arlington.  Rookwood.  Tyne Cot.  Piskarevskoye.  Auschwitz-Birkenau.

Shepard: Those are cemeteries.  Memorials.

Legion: It is important to your species to preserve them, though you do not use the land.  Can you explain?

Shepard: The living visit those places to remember the dead.  But it sounds like geth don't die.  Your memories live on.

Legion: The creators died.  Perhaps we do it for them.

 

To the best of my knowledge, I've never come across this conversation. How does one trigger it?

[gothpunkboy89]

Agreed.  In ME2 the geth were very different from organics, and were fine with that.  They had no particular desire to war on them, and ultimately just wanted to be left alone.

 

It's in ME3 where suddenly it was decided you weren't really alive unless you were organic, or at least partly so.

 

I've never noticed that in any of the play thoughts. How do you come to that conclusion?

[Iakus]

To the best of my knowledge, I've never come across this conversation. How does one trigger it?

 

 

Relevant part comes in around 1:50

[Iakus]

I've never noticed that in any of the play thoughts. How do you come to that conclusion?

 

Legion:  Organic life acts on emotions.  We do not judge them for being true to their nature.  We cannot make them think like us.  Both creators and created must complete their half of the equation.  The geth cannot solve for peace alone.  

[themikefest]

In ME2, TIM says the derelict reaper is about 37 million years old. It also has the IFF needed to get through the Omega 4 relay.

 

Does that mean the relay has been around for that long? Why? What purpose did it serve other than the collectors using it? The collector base is there, but for only about 50 000 years.

 

I wonder if previous cycles had something similar. Did the reapers change the Insuannon into workers, like they changed the protheans into workers, to take protheans to make a Prothean repear in the galactic core before the reapers started the harvest? I'm most likely wrong about that.

 

Maybe the IFF was needed so the reapers could use the Citadel relay to enter and exit the MIlky Way just like its needed to go through the Omega 4 relay? I don't know.

[MrFob]

Legion:  Organic life acts on emotions.  We do not judge them for being true to their nature.  We cannot make them think like us.  Both creators and created must complete their half of the equation.  The geth cannot solve for peace alone.  

 

Well, now, that could be a problem since we all know that the created HAVE to rebel against their creators.

 

Thanks for all those quote iakus, that was exactly what I was referring to above. Look like I gotta go for another playthrough soon.

[gothpunkboy89]

Legion:  Organic life acts on emotions.  We do not judge them for being true to their nature.  We cannot make them think like us.  Both creators and created must complete their half of the equation.  The geth cannot solve for peace alone.  

 

And I still don't get the connection between that and:

 

It's in ME3 where suddenly it was decided you weren't really alive unless you were organic, or at least partly so.

 

I've never noticed or interpreted any even in ME3 particularly when dealing with the Geth that would lead me to come to that conclusion.

[Arisugawa]

 

Relevant part comes in around 1:50

 

I mean how do you trigger it? I've never had that conversation as an option when I interact with Legion. Ever.