1395 réponses à ce sujet

[themikefest]

And you could wear Collector armor around Javik

 

... sensitivity... not Shepard's strong suit.

Your forgot that Shepard can wear Cerberus armor around Kaidan and Ashley

[KrrKs]

Your forgot that Shepard can wear Cerberus armor around Kaidan and Ashley

And the remains of the protheans enslaved and huskified species around Javik...

 

However, that doesn't stop the games from trying their hardest to get you to vilify her [Xen]

I should have been more elaborate, this is kind of what I meant.

Every scientist/discovery attempt* in the MEverse is either actually sort of mad, or displayed as mad.

 

*Apart from the ones by our saviour hero protagonist.

Spoiler

Dr. Manuel Cayce          -'unstable'/crazy (but right in everything)

Liara                                  -perfectly normal (stalker/obsessed)

ExoGeni (Thorian stuff)   -mad, stupid and unscrupulous/potentially evil

Binary Helix (Rachni)        -mad, stupid and unscrupulous/potentially evil

Rana Thanoptis                -mad (sortof)/unscrupulous and indoctrinated

Cerberus                           -this is cerberus...

Hannibal project                -stupid (who had the idea to let wireless controlled bots guard an AI with wireless com. capabilities?)

Wilson (ME2 Cerberus)   -unscrupulous/evil

Okeer                                -mad, unscrupulous

Mordin                             -displayed as inhuman monster (by paragon shep)

Archer                               -cerberus; so mad, stupid and evil at the same time

Rael'Zora                          -mad/stupid

Daro'Xen                         -displayed as mad

Fortack                            -sort of mad/crazy? Krogan (But has some of the best lines in the game, imo!)

Padok Wiks                      - displayed as funny but normal/good. Is actually completely crazy.

Dr. Bryson                         -"When everyone says something is a certain way, I doubt it" (paraphrased) -> actually mad

Ascension Project         -perfectly normal, I guess

Ex Cerberus People        -seem fine, until you notice what they worked with (and for whom)

 

I'm sure I forgot several ones. The actually (sortof) normal ones are bolded. -> Yep crazy Manuel is normal!

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

The overall theme when broken down was research and technology = evil. Destruction of technology = good.

[gothpunkboy89]

Every time I see one of your replies you seem troubled by the critics or questions a lot people ask.

May I ask why?

 

Yes, I know Bioware is a division from EA since ME1 and EA is not the most stellar game dev and publisher around TODAY.

It was for those who don't know, in the 80's and 90's EA was regarded as one of the best publishers in the game industry.

After aquiring Westwood Studios and bring it to the ground, then the yellow lights started to blink.

 

Also your statement about modders isn't true. Yes, game modders don't have the financial obligation to finish their mods unless they are paid for it, but a lot of them also do this because they have desire of entering the game industry.

Quiting in the middle of a mod "because I don't have the motivation anymore" is a poor excuse and also not a very good thing to put on a resumé.

So the devs of ME3 didn't finished some animations in the game, like drawing a gun or aligning the guns with Shepard's hands because "they lacked motivation"?

They didn't finished those animations because lack of time, since there was pressure for launching the game.

 

And when I said "make'd the story more clear" I was refering the attention to details, not the story per se.

You can blame ME1 and ME2 for this, in those games you have extensive attention to details.

Yes, people head-butt a lot because of this, but it's a fact.

I'm not talking about the various changes in the story and setting that contradict some facts we are exposed in ME1, this doesn't matter here.

 

Take the two Krogans in the Wards at the beginning of ME2 or the Quarian in the lower-level.

Depending the moment you talk to them their reactions and dialogs change. Or when entering the Citadel the first time.

ME3? Hell, Thessia was attacked, Shepard was defeated, the Reapers are snuffing the asari, newscast are broadcasting the event in real time and... the soldier father still want to send her daughter to Thessia?

Heck, I still remember the little things that made FNV so great because of this, like the forecasting kid at the NCR outpost at Primm or the Great Khans.

 

But I play on the PC, not a console, so I don't even know what is a physical copy from a long time.

My ME1 and ME2 copies are from Steam for example.

 

Only now that I have a PS4 I started to buy discs again.

 

Curiosity.  There is also the common thread I see of players pointing out issues. Which is fine. Then grilling the hell out of the game developer for those issues to the point they border on out right insults for not getting X or Y right. Or for them daring to use Z as a plot advancer.  Space magic is used many times by players in rather condescending manners. Now this triggers a few things in my mind. One of the bigger things is I accept no game will be perfect. There are always going to be flaws and issues because the video game making process is not 100% smooth. Ideas and concept changes to better suit the story, people from higher up that don't know the first thing about video games attempting to stick their oar in. Time constraints, worker issues (illnesses, etc) during development and of course budget and release date.

 

The issue isn't so much players pointing out little issues. I've done a few myself. It is pointing out the issues then what some to do by taking it to the next step. As if Bioware had all the time in the world to create the game. This tends to draw out a secondary responds to those forum users who seem to take that next step. Questioning their qualification for riding the developers at Bioware this hard for the issues in the game. Because my personal experiences have shown me the ones that complain the loudest often have the least experience in the area they are complaining about.  And someone without qualifications to be that hard on someone else irks me ever so slightly.  Like someone who has no children telling you that you are raising your kids the wrong way and the most experience they have is holding a niece/nephew or cousin for an hour or so every few weeks while you are on your 2nd child.

 

Who said anything about quitting mods mid way though because of lack of motivation? Even if modders are looking to join the game development industry they are still not under the same time and budget constraints a developer creating a game would be under. Particularly the much anticipated final game in the trilogy. If they want to create a game mod to be recognized they could take months crafting it to perfection. An action developers don't always get a chance to do thanks to dead lines and such.  I see this a lot with Skryim PC players. Stating how much better the game is with all these game mods installed then the original game. Which kind of ignores the fact that collectively the various modder have put the same if not more time into the development of the game then Bethesda did when originally developing it.  In effect they doubled the game development period which naturally leads to a better game. With the added benefit of building not only on what Bethesda created but what other modders have created as well. Is it really any wonder the game is better? Yet I've seen people put down Bethesda for not being able to make the game nearly as full or fun as post all these mods to it.

 

I'm fairly certain that the Thessia if you activate it at the right time won't actually happen after a certain point. Not sure though been a while since I've finished the game that far. Maybe when I get back on my renegade vanguard file and actually finish it I can see if triggering it before prevent it from looping again after the obvious Thessia lost happens.  But that is one of those things unless you actively seek it out you don't even notice it is there type issues. Or what was it one forum user pointed out during the final stumble to the beam in ME3 during cut scenes if you held down the fire button the sound of the Carnfix going off would continue.  Treating that as what it seemed to me to be some moderate to major mess up by Bioware. All the while I couldn't help but think: why would anyone hold the trigger button as such? This isn't like Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm were if you finish off your opponent with an ultimate attack regardless of who or what the attack is the sound glitches the heck out until you exist the fight screen. That is a major mess up on Bandi's part.

 

The terms of service for digital games I do not like from places you buy them off of. You basically agree the games really aren't yours. That you are just renting them from the people you downloaded them from.  If I pay money for anything I am owning it.

[Natureguy85]

Did that ship have a thannix cannon?

 

I assumed so because fighters have them. There is no reason for any ship to not have them.

[aoibhealfae]

Come to think of it, why didn't Shepard's cipher react to the Prothean archives on Mars?

[themikefest]

Come to think of it, why didn't Shepard's cipher react to the Prothean archives on Mars?

Or why didn't it react to the items in the temple when walking around listening to Liara tell us about asari history before activating the cutscene?

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

You guys are making my head hurt. 

[Arisugawa]

Re: Prothean Cipher..

 

http://forum.bioware...nse/?p=18868854

[brfritos]

You guys are making my head hurt. 

 

 

Usually I'm not THAT upset or letting my head hurt by some things because... well, if you really think hard ME3 doesn't make A SH** TON of sense.

 

Really, I have to choose between an admiral responsible for a entire fleet that will break apart without him (due to the strict way quarian society is bound) or the crew? There's even a choice here?

Or letting Wreav in charge of the future of Krogan, even if Eve is alive?

 

And I'm not discarding the humane species and philosopical aspect.

 

Heck, the only reason I go along with Wrex and Eve is because I consider him a friend and if he's really a friend (to you), you don't stab one in the back.

 

And what about the cutscene when Cerberus is attacking the CItadel and Shepard and her squad are going for the docking bay?

First we've seen a Cerberus armored mobile infantry destroying the cover of his own troops!

Next I see a human and turian c-sec agent returning fire and then trying to get the hell out of there.

The logical step is running away from the bullets, right? Of course not, instead the turian run TOWARDS the cerberus troops that are firing at him.

 

The sweet to cover all these pancakes is... seeing C-Sec trying to defend the docks fighting in the open, while cerberus soldiers are firing from cover.

Good to know our military forces are well trained, isn't?

I hate this mission, not only it doesn't make sense, is one of the worst cases of "let's do it because it's COOL" I've ever seen.

 

Let's not forget the GENIOUS who thinked that describing a species that only reproduce with a different species, and not between them, was a good idea.

Somebody can explain to me why Tessia isn't empty then?

 

So yeah, you have to shut down your brain to be able to play ME3.

Wich is actually sad, the game could be so much more inteligent.

 

 

But well... we have to sell MP packs/DLC, don't we?

[brfritos]

Curiosity.  There is also the common thread I see of players pointing out issues. Which is fine. Then grilling the hell out of the game developer for those issues to the point they border on out right insults for not getting X or Y right. Or for them daring to use Z as a plot advancer.  Space magic is used many times by players in rather condescending manners. Now this triggers a few things in my mind. One of the bigger things is I accept no game will be perfect. There are always going to be flaws and issues because the video game making process is not 100% smooth. Ideas and concept changes to better suit the story, people from higher up that don't know the first thing about video games attempting to stick their oar in. Time constraints, worker issues (illnesses, etc) during development and of course budget and release date.

 

The issue isn't so much players pointing out little issues. I've done a few myself. It is pointing out the issues then what some to do by taking it to the next step. As if Bioware had all the time in the world to create the game. This tends to draw out a secondary responds to those forum users who seem to take that next step. Questioning their qualification for riding the developers at Bioware this hard for the issues in the game. Because my personal experiences have shown me the ones that complain the loudest often have the least experience in the area they are complaining about.  And someone without qualifications to be that hard on someone else irks me ever so slightly.  Like someone who has no children telling you that you are raising your kids the wrong way and the most experience they have is holding a niece/nephew or cousin for an hour or so every few weeks while you are on your 2nd child.

 

 

So, for cooking a meal to me and my wife I have to be a qualified cooker? Isn't this too much?

I can't criticize a game because I'm not a writer, developer, graphic artist or etc?

 

Nobody is denying the flaws and ME1, ME2 and ME3 have tons of it.

The problem is some EA/Bioware devs acted like 4 year old children when they were criticized and some parts of the community acted like a bunch of bullies and a-holes.

That's why ME3 is heavily criticized and generally unforgiving.

 

Take FO3 for example, Bethesda also had to change the end and received A LOT of fire from their fanbase.

 

Instead of having a visceral reaction, they simply replied "ok, what you didn't liked about the end? So here's a new one, following the EXACT same principles of the first".

And people where satisfied, because what they wanted to see is what the "new" end had.

The huge point that needs to be observed is Bethesda didn't changed how you actually follow the game to reach the end; how the end pace flows; your choices available in the aformentioned ending.

But the content exposition was heavily modified and new things were added.

 

Things that the fans wanted to see.

 

If some devs hadn't reacted in very bad way, all high and mighty like they were doing a favor letting us appreciate their unbetable skills, I doubt the community would react the way they did.

Wich also wasn't good and constructive, to be polite. Really, sending death threats is a good way to validate a point?

 

All in all there isn't a honest way out of this discution, because BOTH parts were wrong.

 

 

 

Who said anything about quitting mods mid way though because of lack of motivation? Even if modders are looking to join the game development industry they are still not under the same time and budget constraints a developer creating a game would be under. Particularly the much anticipated final game in the trilogy. If they want to create a game mod to be recognized they could take months crafting it to perfection. An action developers don't always get a chance to do thanks to dead lines and such.  I see this a lot with Skryim PC players. Stating how much better the game is with all these game mods installed then the original game. Which kind of ignores the fact that collectively the various modder have put the same if not more time into the development of the game then Bethesda did when originally developing it.  In effect they doubled the game development period which naturally leads to a better game. With the added benefit of building not only on what Bethesda created but what other modders have created as well. Is it really any wonder the game is better? Yet I've seen people put down Bethesda for not being able to make the game nearly as full or fun as post all these mods to it.

 

 

In case of ME3, they didn't take more than 6 months for creating very good content.

Those 3 years since the end of ME3 and the content provided were actually wasted creating tools for modding the original content.

EA/Bioware didn't provided any tools for this, remember?

 

But when the tools matured and became capable of modifying core mechanics, in 6 months there were marvelous mods for ME3.

 

Also, and this is my opinion and my opinion only, I always had the impression that ME3 should have more development time, at least more 6 months before launching the game.

I know the game was already postponed at one opportunity and the Bioware division was receiving pressure from EA to lauch the game, that's why you see some unpolished things and some rushing in content exposition, like trying to explain why we can't win the war conventionaly.

 

I like to point for you and for those interested in a better content exposition, three mods.

 

The first one is called EGM - Expanded Galaxy Map

What this mod does is simply opening the ENTIRE GALAXY MAP from the beginning.

So if you want to visit Pragia and grab the intel research there you can.

 

Some highlights are:

 

War Atmospherics

• Puts the Normandy in context as part of a bigger conflict
• Major decisions about who to side with have bigger long term consequences.
• Revised War Assets System which sees your troops gain and lose power as the war unfolds.
• Notifications and AIS reports about battles, losses and gains.
• Experience new video and audio content whilst travelling.
• See the war unfold across the map and find new assets on the war front.

 

Customise mod settings

• Preset when DLC and major missions unlock so no emails/journals sitting there
• Choose your relay video.

 

A Custom Normandy

• Pick your senior crew members, recruit additional medics, engineers, marines and others, all with unique bonuses from a brand new GUI command console.
• Upgrade the Normandy's engines, scanners and other improvements, all having real-time impact on gameplay.
• Customize the look and feel of the ship with different weapon systems, 8 new vehicles to carry

 

 

 

The second one is called ME3Recalibrated

 

This mod is actually bug fixes, content restoration and lore correction.

 

• Alternate escape scene on the Normandy during Prologue: Earth
• Modified dialogue with the Defense Committee and child
• Restored import/new PT dialogue variation duringfirst meeting with Bailey on Citadel
• Alternate transition from Priority: Citadel I to Udina's office
• Fixed acquisition of both Kirrahe/STG GAW assets
• Appearance edits for Kelly
• Removal of casual, nonsensical "Grayson" reference by Anderson post-coup
• Fixed nonsensical Normandy security guard dialogue post-coup
• Adjusted idles for the VS when on the Presidium
• Restored Zaeed's name to Normandy wall when dead
• Fixed TLK bug for Samara's mission location
• Fixed Shadow Broker war assets
• Fixed Minos Wasteland indicating a (nonexistent) quest after rescuing Admiral Koris
• Removed lines that suggested Thessia's defeat was Shepard's fault
• Smoothed Shepard-Anderson shuttle dialogue during end game
• Edited lines related to Steve's (potential) shuttle crash during end game
• Ashley Marksman fix
• Collision fix for getting stuck in the cockpit behind Joker

 

 

 

The third one is a little more controverse, is called Back Off

 

Back Off is a dialogue and story overhaul for Mass Effect 3 that focuses on relationship mechanics between Shepard and potential Love Interests (LIs).

 

• Dialogue Wheels. BO returns flexibility to the dialogue wheel, similar to ME1 and ME2. "Agree" should not mean: "I want to date you", when "Disagree" is the only other option. Removal of the center-right, neutral wheel option in ME3 resulted in paragon players often getting "ninjamanced" by LIs. BO implements many new dialogue wheel options and alters the text and choice locations so implications are clearer prior to the choice.
• Conversations. BO adds variation to paths when possible, creating a greater difference between friend and romanced Shepard. It also improves conversation and scene flow, and restores cut content when possible.
• Characterization. In certain cases, BO removes content that feels out of character or detracts from a scene. It also tweaks email tone, and implements new romance-specific email variants for certain LIs, when warranted.
• Autoflirting. BO puts flirting for FemShep back into the player's control, by allowing them to initiate the behavior.
• Imported ME2 LIs. When both ME1 and ME2 LIs are present, ME3 gives priority — especially on Mars — to the ME1 LI. This mechanic has been tempered, and the player given a bit more control as to how the story plays out. ME2 LIs are no longer demoted to "cheatees".
• Bug Fixes. BO fixes hundreds of bugs with subtitles, conversation pathing, camera work, animations, lighting, and much more.

 

I tested the three and they really expand and do A LOT of good things for the game, some of wich were lacking.

 

And sorry for the really long message and grammar errors or lack of comprehension, english is not my primary language.

[gothpunkboy89]

So, for cooking a meal to me and my wife I have to be a qualified cooker? Isn't this too much?

I can't criticize a game because I'm not a writer, developer, graphic artist or etc?

That is far to simplistic an example when dealing with something as complex as a video game and it's creation. But lets role with it. Lets say you make a meal and your wife gives a little feed back. That is fine how ever she takes the next step out right insulting you for your efforts and not in a playful way. In a mean vicious way. Mean while she either A) can't cook very well either or hasn't cooked once in her whole life. Yet has the audacity to chew you up and spit you out over a mistake.

 

Do you not see the inherent hypocrisy?

 

Now if it was something she had made many times. Lets say an old family recipe for a pot pie. She has made it countless times and has tons of experience in the area of making it. Now you try your hand at it and mess it up. Over cooked the chicken maybe under cooked the pastry topping.  She then again out right insults your cooking attempt in the mean way. This time there isn't any hypocrisy in here statement because she is speaking from experience. She knows the who, what, when, where and why of making the pot pie.

 

Or an even better one a fat over wight beer belly man (or woman) are sitting in their chair watching their favorite sports. While yelling at these well paid professionals that they are doing everything absolutely completely wrong.  When this Jabba the Hutt's most athletic thing done in the last 30 years is reaching for the ores on the top shelf and last time they played the sport was when they were 12 years old.  Don't you think if you were said athlete he/she was yelling at being told you are completely mucking everything up. Wouldn't that irk you just a wee bit coming from this human pudding cup who hasn't even seen their knees in 20 years?

 

Nobody is denying the flaws and ME1, ME2 and ME3 have tons of it.

The problem is some EA/Bioware devs acted like 4 year old children when they were criticized and some parts of the community acted like a bunch of bullies and a-holes.

That's why ME3 is heavily criticized and generally unforgiving.

 

And how do you expect dev's to react when they try to create something and are met with bullies and a-holes?  If I spent time building a game just to have a bunch of people how have only played games tell me I fucked up. I'd tell them to go muck themselves to. Just because you play games doesn't mean you understand the effort that goes into making them. And when dealing with ME3 specifically I've noticed a trend. Players have their own story in their head they wanted to play out. When ever the game diverges from said internal want that is when they really start to rip into Bioware. Topics about the endings more then show this. Taking the little bit shown in game then expanding vastly on it till only the ending they want is valid and all others lead to dystopian hellscapes.
 

 

Take FO3 for example, Bethesda also had to change the end and received A LOT of fire from their fanbase.

 

And why? Is it because the original ending was bad? Or is it simply because it was not what players wanted so they threw a fit over the ending because their own mind formed a different series of events that played out? Because every review I've seen about the ending before Broken Steel was added on seems to be players wanting something else to happen. It not happening and they get mad that their head cannon isn't true. 

 

Also, and this is my opinion and my opinion only, I always had the impression that ME3 should have more development time, at least more 6 months before launching the game.

I know the game was already postponed at one opportunity and the Bioware division was receiving pressure from EA to lauch the game, that's why you see some unpolished things and some rushing in content exposition, like trying to explain why we can't win the war conventionaly.

And that is why I find people chewing Bioware out for the game is so asinine. They didn't release the game as it is simply because they are incompetent developers. It is the equivalent of you coming into work 5 minutes late because someone got into an accident in front of you and you had to get around it delaying you and making you late. But the boss doesn't care and reacts to your lateness as if it was simply incompetence of your own actions.

[Natureguy85]

Come to think of it, why didn't Shepard's cipher react to the Prothean archives on Mars?

 

In what way? Wouldn't Shepard have to actively be looking at something? I forget: Did the Cipher react to something in ME3, or was the beacon/artifact reacting to Shepard's presence? I thought it was the latter because that makes more sense.

 

 

So, for cooking a meal to me and my wife I have to be a qualified cooker? Isn't this too much?

I can't criticize a game because I'm not a writer, developer, graphic artist or etc?

 

No, the argument is that you can't criticize the taste of the meal if you're not a chef.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Wow... a cooking analogy. 

 

@gothpunkboy89 - you're taking this thread off the rails. Cooking analogy..... Your basic argument seems to be that none of us are qualified see anything that doesn't make any sense in the series because we didn't write it, are not or have never been employed in the gaming industry as a writer because we don't understand the pressures and other constraints under which people in the industry work. That argument itself doesn't make sense. Their work place isn't much different than anyone else's. Everyone has deadlines and other things they need to do. So if you insist that everything makes sense, why don't you start a counter-thread about "Things That Make Sense In Mass Effect"

[Natureguy85]

Wow... a cooking analogy. 

 

@gothpunkboy89 - you're taking this thread off the rails. Cooking analogy..... Your basic argument seems to be that none of us are qualified see anything that doesn't make any sense in the series because we didn't write it, are not or have never been employed in the gaming industry as a writer because we don't understand the pressures and other constraints under which people in the industry work. That argument itself doesn't make sense. Their work place isn't much different than anyone else's. Everyone has deadlines and other things they need to do. So if you insist that everything makes sense, why don't you start a counter-thread about "Things That Make Sense In Mass Effect"

 

The workplace and constraints have nothing to do with it. The very idea is preposterous. To keep with cooking, you don't have to know how to cook a good meal to critique a dish; you have to have eaten good ones before. Likewise, we don't need to be a writer to critique writing; you have to have read. You don't need to be a game developer to critique a game; you have to have played games. In short and to generalize, you don't have to be a creator; you have to be a consumer.

[aoibhealfae]

I got this reply on reddit today about Shepard's cipher on the archive; I said something that Shepard cipher did respond to the Prothean panel on Ilos and the data on Eden Prime, didn't make sense for the Archive not to react to Shepard as well;

 

You just said it... Shepard responds to Prothian data, not the other way around unless its a beacon intended for other organics.

Shepard would respond to the Mars archives but he'd likely not get much special from it that analysts spending enough time in it would. The plot had him rushing to extract data, not standing there absorbing it. I'm not saying he wouldn't have interestingly responded to interacting with the archives, I'm saying that it isn't a beacon that 'seeks him out' and locks him into place and transmits to him.

At Eden Prime (ME3) he's interpreting a data language on a screen. At Ilos (ME1) he's interpreting data language from a terminal. On Mars (ME3) Liara uses an Alliance terminal that interacts with the archive, then Shepard speaks with TIM, then the VS is attacked by Eva, leading Shepard to rush after her so they can even have the archive data. He likely could have interacted with the archive and/or its information, but it is not a beacon that outright blasts info to him. The cipher is a CIPHER. The word means that its an instrument to decrypt information. Its not a 'magnet' or whatever. He can't just walk up to an archive and wave his hands and absorb its info. Only with beacons. The Eden Prime case again was already extracted info that Shepard is able to trigger a Prothian memory for. He would not have reacted if he was just standing next to a Prothian terminal or database or whatever. Do you get what I mean now?

 

---

 

..... I still don't get it.

[Arisugawa]

I got this reply on reddit today about Shepard's cipher on the archive; I said something that Shepard cipher did respond to the Prothean panel on Ilos and the data on Eden Prime, didn't make sense for the Archive not to react to Shepard as well;

 

You just said it... Shepard responds to Prothian data, not the other way around unless its a beacon intended for other organics.

Shepard would respond to the Mars archives but he'd likely not get much special from it that analysts spending enough time in it would. The plot had him rushing to extract data, not standing there absorbing it. I'm not saying he wouldn't have interestingly responded to interacting with the archives, I'm saying that it isn't a beacon that 'seeks him out' and locks him into place and transmits to him.

At Eden Prime (ME3) he's interpreting a data language on a screen. At Ilos (ME1) he's interpreting data language from a terminal. On Mars (ME3) Liara uses an Alliance terminal that interacts with the archive, then Shepard speaks with TIM, then the VS is attacked by Eva, leading Shepard to rush after her so they can even have the archive data. He likely could have interacted with the archive and/or its information, but it is not a beacon that outright blasts info to him. The cipher is a CIPHER. The word means that its an instrument to decrypt information. Its not a 'magnet' or whatever. He can't just walk up to an archive and wave his hands and absorb its info. Only with beacons. The Eden Prime case again was already extracted info that Shepard is able to trigger a Prothian memory for. He would not have reacted if he was just standing next to a Prothian terminal or database or whatever. Do you get what I mean now?

 

---

 

..... I still don't get it.

 

 

The poster means that the cipher doesn't draw information to it: it allows Shepard to be able to understand information meant for a prothean mind.

 

Ergo, Shepard can understand the information in the prothean beacon because that is information transferred into Shepard's mind, but Shepard cannot understand the information stored in the Mars archive without spending substantial time reviewing it.

 

So, should Shepard have spent time looking over the information in the archive, the cipher would allow Shepard to understand it. But the cipher isn't going to pull information directly out of the archive and into Shepard's mind.

 

The poster is likening the cipher to a translator or a decryption mechanism. Which, to be fair, isn't a poor comparison.

 

My larger problem is that the cipher isn't merely a translator; if it is the understanding of what it means to be prothean (Shiala's description) then additional enlightenment regarding the protheans is going to come with it. Understanding such as recognizing what Javik's psychometry ability is and how it works. I'm not saying Shepard would know this information before meeting Javik, but the cipher should give Shepard insight and comprehension into it. Instead, the entirety of Mass Effect 3 is spent with Shepard constantly making comments about how confusing Javik's ability is.

 

Now, of course, Shiala's description may be an exaggeration; that's the danger of accepting anything any character says at face value. But given her description of how the Thorian received it, and how her own mind was taking in the information, I would give her the benefit of the doubt here.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

The Cipher is The Mark on the hand of the Inquisitor. It grows more powerful with time. That was why it was critical for the water not to boil in Shepard's brain, and for it not to become dessicated freeze dried crystals in space before it entered the atmosphere of Alchera and somehow survived impact intact without shattering into dust... or goop. It must have been The Cipher that allowed this to happen because I cannot think of any other thing that would have allowed this.

 

But what doesn't make sense is that Shepard shared the Cipher with Liara through at least one meld before they found Ilos. Although ME1 doesn't require you to go through the missions in any order and you can leave Liara for last.... which was really a dumb idea by the writers because no mission order gave no sense of urgency. So IMO, Liara should have been able to decrypt the stuff on the screen on Eden Prime as well as Shepard.

 

But The Cipher made our character The Shepard, just like The Mark made our character The Inquisitor and gave them special powers. I will go further by saying The Cipher was more than just a prothean decryption algorithm. It made Shepard immune to indoctrination and increased our character's charisma to near god-like. The Cipher was what made The Shepard different. It is what made The Shepard ready when she/he was standing speaking with The Catalyst, deciding the fate of the galaxy. For if it were not for The Cipher, Shepard would not have been there.

 

But it didn't protect Shiala from indoctrination, you say. That was because Shiala had not been exposed to the beacon on Eden Prime and was already indoctrinated before she received the cipher. But Saren was exposed to the beacon on Eden Prime and had the Cipher. Ah, but Saren had been tooling around in Sovereign for a few years and was already indoctrinated at the time he was exposed to the Prothean Beacon. The Shepard was not indoctrinated before being exposed to the Prothean Beacon and receiving The Cipher. Not being indoctrinated beforehand allowed them to protect The Shepard's brain.

[MrFob]

I think (as Julia said) the cypher was supposed to be the setup that would have justified Shepard being the central character of ME2 and ME3. It was a pretty cool setup IMO because there was no need for Shep to be "the chosen one", he was just the most qualified to find stuff on the reapers from prothean ruins and such because of his exposure to the beacons and the cypher. Unfortunately, that idea was abandoned.

 

I also never interpreted the Shep-Liara mind-meld to transfer the cypher to Liara. She was just able to make more sense of the visions because Shepard's own mind (with the cypher) could interpret the information better. There is nothing there to indicate that Liara has the cypher.

 

As for what the cypher should or should not have done, the whole idea was so vague that the cypher is basically a black box to us. For the writer, that means that it can do as much or as little as required by the plot. Now, you may call that a random plot device (and it is) but at least IMO it was set up pretty well and the concept of a common consciousness is vague enough and under debate enough today to allow the writers to use it in this capacity without requiring too much suspension of disbelief. At least that's my take on it, I get that this is very much a matter of taste and a lot of people disagree.

I do out myself as a cypher fanboy, even started a thread on the dam thing once.

[Mistic]

I think (as Julia said) the cypher was supposed to be the setup that would have justified Shepard being the central character of ME2 and ME3. It was a pretty cool setup IMO because there was no need for Shep to be "the chosen one", he was just the most qualified to find stuff on the reapers from prothean ruins and such because of his exposure to the beacons and the cypher. Unfortunately, that idea was abandoned.

 

What a pity. That at least would have explained why the Ilusive Man was so interested in resurrecting Shepard beyond the "humanity is doomed without the PC leading them!" trope.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

See, I think the original idea for ME2 was to have Shepard dead and have us create a new protagonist. They said we'd get to play Shepard "a little bit." Then they wussed out due to fan outcry and had The Lazarus Project. This is what I think. Imagine if we had an independent protagonist for ME2.

[Natureguy85]

See, I think the original idea for ME2 was to have Shepard dead and have us create a new protagonist. They said we'd get to play Shepard "a little bit." Then they wussed out due to fan outcry and had The Lazarus Project. This is what I think. Imagine if we had an independent protagonist for ME2.

 

The plot would still have nothing to do with the Reapers or advance the series in any way.

[MrFob]

See, I think the original idea for ME2 was to have Shepard dead and have us create a new protagonist. They said we'd get to play Shepard "a little bit." Then they wussed out due to fan outcry and had The Lazarus Project. This is what I think. Imagine if we had an independent protagonist for ME2.

 

Really? I never heard of that. I remember very early interviews with Casey, where he said that they have a rough plan where they want Sep to end up at the end of the trilogy (yea riiiiight ) and another one where they said that they had thought about and early on discarded the idea to reveal late in the trilogy that Shep is actually an alien but I never heard that they considered changing protagonists (doesn't mean I don't believe you, there is so much stuff out there, it's very possible I missed that one).

[Iakus]

You guys are making my head hurt. 

Your head hurts because Shepard's head doesn't  

[AlleyD]

This long post will be a speculative investigation of the Mars Archive and early timeline of Humans in the MEU. I hope to show that there might be some form of evidence that points towards the Protheans leaving more of a legacy on humans that in stated in the lore entries.

 

Prothean Mars Timeline

The Mars archive was described in ME1 as having been an abandoned research base. We find out on Eletania that the Protheans had studied our planet and decided that organic life on Earth was too primitive to uplift into their Empire. This was during the Cro-Magnon stage on humans, a period that the oldest archaeological remains date from around 41,000BC.

 

The Mars base was where the Protheans held their final solutions to the Reapers. We played through one solution that I don't believe the Protheans would have attempted at that stage. They knew they needed the Citadel to complete the device, and that was held at the heart of the Reaper territory. Also, the Reapers controlled the relay network. There may have been other solutions, and I believe that there was something more to come from the Mars Archive.

 

The Charon Relay

Think about these points about relays with the perspective of a detective looking for clues. Some may be false leads, others may be "evidence"

• The Charon Relay is the only relay that was frozen over that we know of in lore. Other relays can survive in temperatures lower than -220⁰c when they operate, so it is unlikely that an active relay would freeze naturally.

• Relays have been engineered to withstand events such as Supernovae blasts and still remain functional. The Mu relay is believed to have been displaced by such an event, but was perfectly usable once located

• We are shown that to shut down a relay:- the only known method involved brute force and caused a cataclysmic event across the entire system.

• Since the Alliance were Council members and that the safest course of action would have been to use the Citadel to shut down the Alpha relay- this might suggest that the Reapers did not allow that functionality in the system control in the Citadel. We are told by Vigil that the key to the relay lay in the keepers, not the central control panel. Chorban also confirms that the keepers hold realy information

• Further evidence of a lack of understanding, or capability in manipulating relays is the Relay in Maskim Xul;- gateway to the Rachni homeworld. This was never closed down at any point after the rebellion and has had a constantly manned observation post built to observe the system to cover for the inability to close the Relay.

• We are told that the Asari specifically dropped Relay research at one point in their culture, we are also informed that they may have been the prime mover in issuing the legal controls on Prothean research and artefact trading.

• We are told that the only race capable of manipulating or building some form of Relay were the Protheans. Who were on the cusp of unlocking the secrets of Relays prior to Invasion. Ilos was where a small enclave of Prothean expert scientists developed and deployed some form of hacking facility that enabled a bypass of the Relays in a way that the Reapers were not aware about

The dates are out by thousands of years. Protheans were hunting Cro Magnons, and they did not evolve on Earth until thousands of years after the Reaper Invasion of Protheans. I think that this shows that the Protheans may have fled to Mars at some point, deliberately shut down the Relay with their hack in a way that didn't alert the Reaper's. They then entombed - the now inert -relay  for an additional measure of security and used Mars to research their final solutions

 

Why SOL?

The Protheans had plenty of support resources to survive:- A water/garden world teeming with H20, protein, amino acids and sugars within easy reach on one side. On the other side:- you have a massive resource of heavy metals in the asteroid belt and several gas giants for Hydrogen and HE3 for nuclear fusion.

 

Since there were several spaceships found, but no Prothean corpses or stasis pods. Where did the Prothean researchers on Mars go?

 

Did they decay into dust? Highly unlikely given the temperatures would freeze organic tissues, and there is nothing to break down skeletal matter or the chitinous carapaces of the Protheans. Of course, dust-storms on Mars are violent, but the base had been sealed against that, and the sand/dust would have most likely mummified and buried any corpses or skeletons, not turned them to dust.

 

The Human Prothean Legacy

This is the WIKI entry for humanity's discovery of ME physics in 2148

 

After twenty years of manned research outposts and nearly a century of robotic exploration, the European Space Agency's Lowell City became the first permanent settlement on Mars in 2103. Within a decade, the United States and China had founded permanent settlements, as well.

The south polar region of Promethei Planum developed a "Bermuda Triangle" reputation. Satellites detected intermittent mass concentration and magnetic field shifts. In 2148, prospectors working near Deseado Crater discovered an underground complex: a Prothean observation post. The odd phenomena were generated by the operation and discharge of a mass effect core, struggling to function despite fifty millennia of neglect.

The facility proved to be a biosciences observation post built when ****** sapiens were first evolving on Earth. While the motives of the Protheans are not certain, translated records indicate that the facility was in regular communication with automated observation platforms in Earth orbit and the lunar nearside. The half-dozen mass effect spaceships found in the facility were presumably used for first-hand observation.

Earth was electrified with the news. Humans were unequivocally not alone. While courts battled who owned the ruins, the international scientific community coordinated a massive effort to access, translate, and interpret the databanks recovered from the facility.

 

Translating from a dead human language is totally impossible without a translation key. Let alone try and attempt to decipher an Alien language. There are 100's of dead languages that the entire linguistic community on Earth have not been able to decipher with decades of study. It is listed as being done using computers, but that adds more factors of difficulty in translation, not less. Computers need to be programmed and they have no intuition or ability to imagine metaphysical tasks such as translating. These issues are made even more improbable when you factor in Prothean communication appeared to be based in biochemistry, not anything like how humans sense or communicate.

 

Consider the Asari had been intimately developed and uplifted by Protheans, as had the Hanar. Both worshipped them in some form for great periods in their culture. They had universities devoted to their science and culture. We met one of the foremost Prothean expert archaeologists in the MEU. And even she could not understand Prothean like Shepard.

 

Prothean Communication and sensory model

How Prothean Communcation worked was unexplained? But we were told several key things about how Protheans communicate and perceive their surroundings.And also how they are masters at genetic manipulation.

• Javik is shown to have an ability to sense emotional time lines from the past from their surroundings. How this could be possible may be linked to an ability to sense proteins and amino acids in a very advanced form that is able to translate the emotional state of prey. For a hunter species, that would be an excellent adaptation.

• Javik's Memory shard is shown to be able to store emotional timelines of countless Protheans from the Reaper War, and replay them with full effect back

• The Protheans engineered the Rachni to be weapons. They gave them an ability understand their commands, and act as strategic Weapon forces. They engineered Queens with several tactical, and stategic communication abilities that are far more effective than QEC or any other communication technology. Even the "best" communications expert, and a master of strategic war-gaming like Traynor, remarked on how truly amazing Rachni C&C was.

I believe that this is indicative of an advanced biochemical sensory system and that beacons operate through some form of protein mechanism. One that dispenses proteins that enter an organic bloodstream and are able to navigate and connect in the brain an ability to comprehend Prothean.

 

AND there was a Beacon on Mars, and that most likely looks like someone may have been given the same basic ability as Shepard earlier in Human time line.

 

Human expansion in Sol.

It took us until 2069 to have a manned presence on Luna. It took another 3 decades to reach Mars in 2103 with a permanent colony.

 

The colonization of the rest of Sol was exceptional different timeline:- Jupiter 2135, Saturn 2137, Uranus 2138, Venus 2142, Gagarin (Pluto) 2142, Mercury 2145, Neptune 2146.

 

These are much larger distances that have journey times in years from Earth using all current techs imaginable to us and the techs that are supported in the Luna and Mars colonization timeline. The other techs show that there was a massive technological leap on Mars between 2103 and 2135, a leap that was announced publicly in 2148, but was being deployed in exploration prior to that.

 

Then you have Charon Relay (WIKI in italics)

In 2149, a human science team exploring the edge of the system near Pluto discovered that Charon was not a moon at all, but an enormous piece of ancient technology known as a mass relay that had been used by the Protheans. The discovery was not completely surprising, however, since the Prothean ruins found on Mars in 2148 had mentioned such a device. While the scientific theory behind the creation of mass relays was still beyond humanity's reach at the time, scientists were able to reactivate the dormant relay.

Exploratory probes sent through the Charon Relay immediately dropped out of contact, and it was determined that the only way to learn what was on the relay's other side was to send actual explorers through. Led by Jon Grissom, a team of brave men and women willing to risk their lives traveled through the relay, and discovered that it led to Arcturus. Their successful return made them heroes, and Jon Grissom became the face of the Systems Alliance as humanity entered a new age of unparalleled discovery and expansion.

Mass relays consist of two fifteen-kilometer (or nine-mile) long curved metal arms surrounding a set of revolving, gyroscopic rings five-kilometers across. These rings contain a massive, blue-glowing core of element zero. The relays are made of an unknown but incredibly resilient material, the same material that the Citadel is built from, and are protected by a quantum shield that renders them nearly impervious to damage by locking their structure in place at the subatomic level. They are even capable of surviving a supernova's wake without being damaged. They are "cold" objects that don't emit heat or radiation, unlike starships, making them difficult to find if their position changes. Some relays, like the Charon Relay, are "gravitationally anchored" to celestial bodies; others appear to be out in space and are carefully tracked.

 

Charon is approx 600km in radius and has a volume around (9.32±0.14)×10⁸ km^3. Somehow we managed to shift all that ice, in temperatures of -220^oc in less than 12 months Is that all probable to you? We mastered an alien technology, melted a moon to even get near the relay, switch it on, and have vehicles constructed from a tech that we don't understand the science theory? And we did all that in less than 24 months?

 

Is there an alternative suggestion that has a more plausible timeline?

 

I say that there is evidence in the Sol expansion timeline of a massive tech uplift in the 2130's, it was being deployed by Ashland Energy and they exploited the advantages and technology until they had opened the relay. When everything was confirmed ready for the next step- ie the relay was operational- they announced it to the world. Instead of 24 months, the human discovery of ME tech played out over 20 plus years, and it was initiated by a Beacon.

 

A beacon that gave Ashland Energy the knowledge to persude the Council to set aside hundreds of years of law regarding the opening of Relays and to enable an expanion that doubled the range of Council influence. Knowledge that was based on the ability of establishing colonies and moving large numbers of civilians into new galactic territories.

 

I think the expansion was targetted more at discovering Prothean technologies, and not simply an economic expansion. Around 25% of the human linked planets mention Prothean and Ancient ruins. Far too many to be consistant with the MO described of the Reapers. Either the Reapers were exceptionally sloppy or we managed to have some form of map of the Prothean empire to build from that managed to point out surviving Prothean sites and precycle ruins.

 

In conclusion, I think Ashland Energy had a staff member that was hit by a beacon message, one that enabled tech understanding of how to build colonies etc. This knowledge empowered a economic giant of a corporation, but was also involved in discovering as much Prothean technologies as possible. I don't think Ashland were aware of the Reapers as anything other than a terrifying, hard to understand message, but in 2183 that would have all changed and the stakes were now clear to understand for anyone with a Prothean Cypher.

 

The Reapers are coming and extinction is inevitable.

 

They probably faced similar attitudes than Shepard, but they are not dependent on the Council for approval and they do not need their support in any form. They had all the resources capable of bulding massive colonies and starships. They had the technology for decades, have deen deploying it constantly in expansion wave of billions of beings moving into new, unexplored are of space and settling down. If they factored that capability into one focused project? I believe they could build a giant ARK vessel and recruit staff, and it would unlikely to be suspicious. EAE have recruited billions of people in their expansion, from all species