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[sH0tgUn jUliA]

The other amazing thing is that the Protheans moved all that ice and compressed it around Charon in such a perfect spheroid and had it give off signatures that it was formed billions of years ago, enough to fool Earth space probes. Billions of tons of ice and rock moved from the Kuiper Belt. The ice moving capacity of the Protheans must have been god-like. And without being detected by the reapers! But maybe they were? Maybe after after 9000 years of study Sovereign detected that energy signature, made a call to the Collectors and shot in from Arcturus? Bye Bye Protheans Mars Colony before they could even get their ships off the ground. Collected and transformed into Collectors. Did all that really happen? Yes, but many of the details were lost with time. It all happened so very long ago.... Sorry.... 

 

But things in the Codex always don't add up. The timeline doesn't add up. Or does it?

 

If the Protheans vanished 50,000 years ago, then the Prothean event on Elentania of a Prothean study taking place around 43,000 years ago doesn't make sense because they were gone by then. The timeline doesn't add up. It's "a little mystery." But with Mars there's no bodies nothing around except the hardware, and no volcanic activity. Thus no reliable way of dating the Mars Archives. Therefore, the idea of 50,000 years couldn't have come from human exploration. There is only one explanation. It had to be Asari in origin. 

 

Why? The earliest Cro-Magnon skeletons were 43-45,000 years old. 43,000 years old (41000 BCE) is .86 of 50,000 or nearly 48,000 Thessian years. 45,000 is .90 or exactly 50,000 Thessian years. The Thessian year is 0.90 * Earth years. That would actually make sense.

 

Perhaps the Asari found some things they could actually date? Like on Therum? Prothean ruins under lava flows. Or perhaps some Prothean remains somewhere (psst - a bone in their own Archive). I can't imagine the reapers were that thorough. I mean they left the Leviathans alive so that BioWare could justify Starbrat.

 

So if we use Asari years and day cycle (still 24 hr but lasts 27.6 Earth Hrs) as galactic standard, which would make sense since they were the first to discover the Citadel and ran the place solo for 556 years. Each year lasts 286 days. If we assume 12 months and three seasons (named after Athame, Janiri, and Lucen with festivals on their holidays not lasting less than three days each: Athame - gifts of the goddessl; Janiri - fertility; Lucen - harvest; but now the festivals are just drunken debauchery), each month has four weeks made up of 6 days. Some months will have 24 days, and a few months will have 23 days. Dang, see how easy it is to start coming up with a culture? We must now convert all dates in the Codex since they are written in BCE and CE. Nothing so arrogant as the newcomers from Earth entering the interstellar community imposing their date and time system on the entire galaxy. 

 

Oh the things I could have put in the game if I were one of the writers.

 

Taking things from the Codex literally can be dangerous because lore in the MEU is a free-for-all. 

 

No.... no.... I'm trying to make sense of this..... This thread is for s*** posting.

[AlleyD]

The other amazing thing is that the Protheans moved all that ice and compressed it around Charon in such a perfect spheroid and had it give off signatures that it was formed billions of years ago, enough to fool Earth space probes. Billions of tons of ice and rock moved from the Kuiper Belt. The ice moving capacity of the Protheans must have been god-like. And without being detected by the reapers! But maybe they were? Maybe after after 9000 years of study Sovereign detected that energy signature, made a call to the Collectors and shot in from Arcturus? Bye Bye Protheans Mars Colony before they could even get their ships off the ground. Collected and transformed into Collectors. Did all that really happen? Yes, but many of the details were lost with time. It all happened so very long ago.... Sorry.... 

 

But things in the Codex always don't add up. The timeline doesn't add up. Or does it?

 

If the Protheans vanished 50,000 years ago, then the Prothean event on Elentania of a Prothean study taking place around 43,000 years ago doesn't make sense because they were gone by then. The timeline doesn't add up. It's "a little mystery." But with Mars there's no bodies nothing around except the hardware, and no volcanic activity. Thus no reliable way of dating the Mars Archives. Therefore, the idea of 50,000 years couldn't have come from human exploration. There is only one explanation. It had to be Asari in origin. 

 

Why? The earliest Cro-Magnon skeletons were 43-45,000 years old. 43,000 years old (41000 BCE) is .86 of 50,000 or nearly 48,000 Thessian years. 45,000 is .90 or exactly 50,000 Thessian years. The Thessian year is 0.90 * Earth years. That would actually make sense.

 

Perhaps the Asari found some things they could actually date? Like on Therum? Prothean ruins under lava flows. Or perhaps some Prothean remains somewhere (psst - a bone in their own Archive). I can't imagine the reapers were that thorough. I mean they left the Leviathans alive so that BioWare could justify Starbrat.

 

So if we use Asari years and day cycle (still 24 hr but lasts 27.6 Earth Hrs) as galactic standard, which would make sense since they were the first to discover the Citadel and ran the place solo for 556 years. Each year lasts 286 days. If we assume 12 months and three seasons (named after Athame, Janiri, and Lucen with festivals on their holidays not lasting less than three days each: Athame - gifts of the goddessl; Janiri - fertility; Lucen - harvest; but now the festivals are just drunken debauchery), each month has four weeks made up of 6 days. Some months will have 24 days, and a few months will have 23 days. Dang, see how easy it is to start coming up with a culture? We must now convert all dates in the Codex since they are written in BCE and CE. Nothing so arrogant as the newcomers from Earth entering the interstellar community imposing their date and time system on the entire galaxy. 

 

Oh the things I could have put in the game if I were one of the writers.

 

Taking things from the Codex literally can be dangerous because lore in the MEU is a free-for-all. 

 

No.... no.... I'm trying to make sense of this..... This thread is for s*** posting.

You completely lost me with the Asari transfer, I look for a simpler explanation. The necklace contained the memory, being a smaller type of Shard device. Found on Mars at some point of the Ashland Energy investigation. This was later used as a bargaining chip with the Asari Consort. I believe the Asari would handle all first contact meeting with species; their mind meld capability enabling the only plausible form of first contact communication.

 

I thought composing a narrative in an AU style was the ultimate in **** posting. Instead of simply pulling one thing out for examination. Rip into a full reconstructive surgery. Or an autopsy in some cases.

[MrFob]

@AlleyD: Just to add to all of this, in the first novel Revelation, there are some interesting takes on the ME timeline as well. I am sure neither Drew nor any other ME writer ever took things so far as to account for Charon's density and how much ice would need to be packed around the relay. Maybe we can handwave this by saying that the dormant relay's eezo core caused the odd phenomenon to have this huge mass and the spherical shape (don't ask for details ). When activated, the field would disperse and humanity would not have to melt down an entire moon.

Anyway, we all know the the ME timeline for humanities rise is bogus. I'd say even the conspiracy theory approach is not really feasible just as someone pointed out in the linked thread, it would take a massive amount of people keeping silent for a very long time.

Still some interesting thoughts on all sides.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

You completely lost me with the Asari transfer, I look for a simpler explanation. The necklace contained the memory, being a smaller type of Shard device. Found on Mars at some point of the Ashland Energy investigation. This was later used as a bargaining chip with the Asari Consort. I believe the Asari would handle all first contact meeting with species; their mind meld capability enabling the only plausible form of first contact communication.

 

I thought composing a narrative in an AU style was the ultimate in **** posting. Instead of simply pulling one thing out for examination. Rip into a full reconstructive surgery. Or an autopsy in some cases.

 

Well let me explain it then. Never make something simple when a way can be found to make it more complex.

 

We can skip the months, days, and weeks thing because it's pretty irrelevant, but I thought it could have been cool to add in. The only thing that is important is years.

 

The Earth orbits its sun in one solar year.

Thessia orbits Parnitha in 0.9 solar years.

 

And like I said, since the Asari discovered the Citadel 2500 years ago the standard galactic year is 0.9 solar years. We were here first and discovered all our technology on our own without the benefit of a Prothean Archive (even though that's a lie) trumps everyone else.

 

41,000 BC is 43,000 solar years ago.

 

I'm assuming you're getting that date from the earliest Cro-Magnon remains which are dated between 43,000 and 45,000 solar years old.

 

What you said was that we did not discover any Prothean remains on Mars. Now this makes dating the Mars Archives very difficult. However, if the Asari had found some kind of remains inside a Prothean Archive.... ahem like their own.... or another one discovered on a colony world.... they would have been the ones to assign the dating to the Prothean extinction. It also would make the most sense since they were exploring space while humans were still fighting with spears... before the Roman Republic came into existence. 

 

So if we take 43000 and divide it by 0.9 we get 47777. If we take 45000 and divide it by 0.9 we get 50000 exactly. This means that 50,000 Asari years pass for every 45,000 solar years. 

 

Shepard got the trinket from the Asari Consort.... a small mystery.

 

The timing of Shepard's time travel event perfectly coincides with the Prothean extinction event if we use the Asari year as the galactic standard year.

 

This is the only way we can make sense out of this event.

[themikefest]

 Oh the things I could have put in the game if I were one of the writers.

If I was one of the writers........it would be glorious.

[AlleyD]

Sorry, julia. The Asari link simply has nothing to do with Mass Effect's  lore entry regards the Trinket and the vision on Eletania. I'll not quote the full entry of Shepard's vision, just the bit at the end.

 

Are you okay, Shepard?" the other asks. You don't answer right away, wondering at the implications of what you have seen: the memories of a Cro-Magnon hunter, captured by an implanted Prothean data recorder. How long did they study the primitive humans, observing them and analyzing the results at their base on Mars? And what, if anything, did they learn from us? "I'm fine," you finally reply, realizing that this is a mystery you will probably never solve.

 

Nothing about Asari at all. The most plausible solution is that the Asari Consort was given that trinket, at some point after 2157, by a human.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

@AlleyD: did I deny that? No. But the human did not know anything about it. Nor did the consort. It was a small trinket. A memory chip probably used for tagging early humans. It needed to be returned to a specific site to be activated. If you have this trinket, you get this memory triggered about the protheans. 

 

What I am talking about is the date. The date of the prothean extinction was 50,000 years ago, not 43,000 or 45,000 years ago. It took the Reapers 800 years to completely clean the galaxy of advanced organic life. No Protheans skeletons were found on Mars. They were taken. "Just like we left yours alone the last time we were through." 

 

It makes no sense for the Protheans to have maintained a colony undetected for 7,000 especially after making that much "noise" moving that much ice and rock to cover the mass relay in the middle of a galactic extinction event. Therefore the time has to be in Asari years. It has nothing to do with the Asari discovering the Mars Archives - they didn't discover them. It has nothing to do with the Asari discovering that trinket - they didn't. But they were aware of the Protheans. Now do you follow?

 

The other choice is that we continue with: Lore in the Mass Effect Universe is some kind of zany free-for-all. And this event doesn't make any sense because Drew K introduced a plot hole.

[MrFob]

Sorry, but there is such a thing as galactic standard time in the ME universe. A galactic standard year is 1.09 earth years. So if anything, it goes in the other direction.

Still, I am with Julia, there are other explanations to the Eletania artifact.

- They never give an accurate date, it always "roughly" 50.000 years, might actually have been 45.000

- While Shepard thought the Cro-Magnon hunter was human, it was in fact another species (the artifact is found on Eletania, not on earth after all)

- Shepard may have misinterpreted the vision as being from the Cro-Magnon period but in fact, it was from an individual who lived a few thousand years earlier and s/he may have just thought of the wrong term (hence the wrong term is in the vision description text). AFAIK, there is nothing described in the vision that prevents it from having taken place 5000 years earlier.

[Arisugawa]

Agree with Fob. Time in the Mass Effect timeline is questionable at best.

 

I mean, there is the issue with Miranda being genetically engineered to have biotic abilities. Given the year of her birth, that type of engineering shouldn't have been possible since human biotic ability didn't manifest in any of the children of the earliest eezo exposures until six years after Miranda was born. Since humans hadn't encountered aliens yet (Miranda was born in 2150, the Singapore exposure that an in-the-womb Kaidan was part of was in 2151, first biotic manifestations in humans were in 2156, and the First Contact War in 2157)...it gets dicey on how her abilities came to be.

 

http://forum.bioware.../#entry18749302

 

The possibility always exists that we don't know the truth of Miranda's origins, that she was artificially aged, that her biotic abilities were somehow grafted onto her (the Krogan apparently have a method to do this that is successful...some of the time) when she was 7 or 8, etc. But the way it is presented within the narrative by Miranda, it probably shouldn't have been possible.

[AlleyD]

Agree with Fob. Time in the Mass Effect timeline is questionable at best.

 

I mean, there is the issue with Miranda being genetically engineered to have biotic abilities. Given the year of her birth, that type of engineering shouldn't have been possible since human biotic ability didn't manifest in any of the children of the earliest eezo exposures until six years after Miranda was born. Since humans hadn't encountered aliens yet (Miranda was born in 2150, the Singapore exposure that an in-the-womb Kaidan was part of was in 2151, first biotic manifestations in humans were in 2156, and the First Contact War in 2157)...it gets dicey on how her abilities came to be.

 

http://forum.bioware.../#entry18749302

 

The possibility always exists that we don't know the truth of Miranda's origins, that she was artificially aged, that her biotic abilities were somehow grafted onto her (the Krogan apparently have a method to do this that is successful...some of the time) when she was 7 or 8, etc. But the way it is presented within the narrative by Miranda, it probably shouldn't have been possible.

 

Yeah, I remember that one.   I thought I had done some form of typo with Miranda's DOB in my lore sheets,

[Fixers0]

Don't forget Avina in ME1 telling Shepard that it normally takes more than a century and before a new species gets the privilege of an embassy on the Presidum. Then Humanity got their embassy a whopping eight years after first contact.

 

What did Humanity do to get such prefferential treatement?

[Bowlcuts]

Don't forget Avina in ME1 telling Shepard that it normally takes more than a century and before a new species gets the privilege of an embassy on the Presidum. Then Humanity got their embassy a whopping eight years after first contact.

 

What did Humanity do to get such prefferential treatement?

Humanity easily integrated into the galactic community faster than any of the other races. I guess with humanity quickly becoming a major trade partner with the other species and making up most of the marketing revenue, they were granted that treatment. Not to mention to the other species, humanity was viewed as having a sort of ambition that the other species lacked. As if they wanted something to accomplish, they would do it quickly and without hesistation; Battle of the Citadel proved this.

[MrFob]

I have a (completely made up out of nowhere) theory on that one. Basically the humans walked right in the middle of a political situation that was extremely lucky for them.

- The humans already built a small but still formidable military force in anticipation of first contact. Why they did that is unclear, either because Alliance leaders were paranoid or to stimulate the economy of earth and it's early colonies or whatever (in Revelation, Hackett speculates that Alliance brass already knew about another potentially hostile race being out there long before the First Contact War for example).

- During the First Contact War, humans show that they are very adaptive tacticians and a fairly aggressive and formidable species. That's how they first get on the councils radar.

- At this time, the council has issues with the batarians in the Attican Traverse. The batarians have been a constant source of trouble for the council ever since they showed upon the galactic map (see the second paragraph here). It is possible that in the 2150s and 60s they started another aggressive campaign in the region, maybe even reaching out to the Terminus systems.

- The council cannot afford another direct confrontation with the batarians because they fear that the conflict could escalate. Yet, they can't ignore their constant aggressive expansion that starts to summon unpleasant memories of the onset of the krogan rebellion.

- Enter the humans, who conveniently show up right at the batarians's doorstep. Because of the skirmishes during the First Contact War and the subsequent lsos of human life at the hands of a council species, they have the perfect excuse to jump start the human's development through "reparations", concessions, developmental aid, etc. in the next few years, all with the intent to foster a power struggle between the humans and the batarians in the Traverse and thus keep the batarians out of the council's hair* (it would be just like the asari and salarians to cook up a plan like that, the turians will go along and the humans will be happy to be pawns in this game if it gives them advantages).

=> The humans develop like crazy, build one colony after another and even get an embassy in record time while the batarians are kept bottled up in the traverse.

It's a typical proxy war strategy, only in this case, the humans are the proxy and it all works to their advantage. It's only later, when the humans have their embassy and everything that the council tries to reduce their support (the discovery if illegal AI research by humans on Sidon gives them the opportunity to do so for example).

 

*) Although at the time, none of the council species actually had hair.

[Fixers0]

Humanity easily integrated into the galactic community faster than any of the other races.

 

Is their any proof for that? From what ME1 tells us, it's exactly the opposite: Mankind is resented and looked upon with suspicion. there's really no conceivable way Humanity would be able adopt to an entire new society within just eight solar years. Humanity did nothing in those eight years to justify an embassy.

 

 

Humanity easily integrated into the galactic community faster than any of the other races. I guess with humanity quickly becoming a major trade partner with the other species and making up most of the marketing revenue, they were granted that treatment.

 

 

Hardly, the game describes the Alliance's economy as smaller than that of the elcor, who themselves have the second smallest economy. Now the games are really inconsistent on this part but humanity in earlier lore clearly isn't as integrated as some of the later materials seem to suggest.

[Bowlcuts]

Is their any proof for that? From what ME1 tells us, it's exactly the opposite: Mankind is resented and looked upon with suspicion. there's really no conceivable way Humanity would be able adopt to an entire new society within just eight solar years. Humanity did nothing in those eight years to justify an embassy.

Most of mine remarks from Mass Effect: Revelation. About how mankind set out of colonies carelessly compared to the other species such as the Skyllian Verge and the Attican Treverse. This was in what, not even a decade? Not to mention pushing out the Batarians who became a burden upon galactic society as their caste systems reflect humanities.

 

 

Hardly, the game describes the Alliance's economy as smaller than that of the elcor, who themselves have the second smallest economy. Now the games are really inconsistent on this part but humanity in earlier lore clearly isn't as integrated as some of the later materials seem to suggest.

 

Furthermore, the Mass Effect universe seems to be incredibly standardised with regards to technology, aesthetics, and culture. This can be partially attributed to the limited resources with regards to modelling and animating, but big portion can also be blamed on the writers. Take Omega and the Citadel for example, they are described as being radically different, but in practice those differences are limited to superficial trademarks; The Citadel is clean, organized and juwel of civilisation and Omega is  dirty, lawless and generally seen as the hellhole of the galaxy. Yet both have the same species, weapons, clothes, armor, furniture, language, vehicles, currency, etc.

 

True and true. But since then, they've been leading to the top with their huge expansion across the galaxy in such little time. Which was my prior example of their colonies. As from what you said about them being resented, that's a part of why they are, their careless stopping power of achievement.

 

As from what you also said, yeah, I agree. I never really saw the technological superiority the game tried to make the other species have compared to well, the other species. Everything but the Geth it would seem was a frail example of this. The cultivation was pretty much only targeted from the lore in terms of the differential advancement each species had. Only their cruisers would bear from this, and even then there wasn't much information on what it had compared to say, humanities.

[Fixers0]

- The humans already built a small but still formidable military force in anticipation of first contact. Why they did that is unclear, either because Alliance leaders were paranoid or to stimulate the economy of earth and it's early colonies or whatever (in Revelation, Hackett speculates that Alliance crass already knew about another potentially hostile race being out there long before the First Contact War for example).

 

I've actually wrote a lengthy essay about this a very, very long time ago.

 

Basically, There's no justifcations why the governments of earth would cede interstellar military capability to a independant quasi-government nor is there any reason as to why Humanity as a whole would have any significant interstellar capability anyway. The most plausable scenario was that at some point before first contact a serious internal conflict would have taken place and justified the development of interplanetary warships and the establishment of a central colonial authority.

 

I then went on at creating a custom timeline as well as outline for such a scenario where growing tensions between colonists, governments and corporations would lead to a series skirmishes about the ownership of worlds and the rights of colonials, these would ultimately lead to a series of treaties that clearly defined the Alliance as the face of a unified Humanity; Earth's governments mostly pull themselves out of colonial development, they keep a few space outposts and warships for territorial protection but most military assets are ceded to the newly founded Alliance navy. Corporations are demilitarized and relieved of much of their assets. Major colonies are brought under direct administration of a local Alliance government, but in return are granted civil rights and protection.

 

Chris L'Etoile actually wrote some stuff about the rise of the Alliance on his blog. I can't find it anymore but AFAIK the Alliance was initially nothing more then a UN in space that was helping the colonies organising trade and setting up an interplanetary economy. the Alliance didn't get any military role until right before the First contact war and full independance wasn't established until the war was over and Humanity needed to have a unified represenative.

 

 

Most of mine remarks from Mass Effect: Revelation. About how mankind set out of colonies carelessly compared to the other species such as the Skyllian Verge and the Attican Treverse. This was in what, not even a decade? Not to mention pushing out the Batarians who became a burden upon galactic society as their caste systems reflect humanities.

 

Yeah, but the lore consistently fails to give any proper justification as to why Humanity can develop at such an incredible rate.

 

The easiest solution: More time. Add an aditional fifty years and few  extra historcial events and you're done.

[Bowlcuts]

Yeah, but the lore consistently fails to give any proper justification as to why Humanity can develop at such an incredible rate.

 

The easiest solution: More time. Add an aditional fifty years and few  extra historcial events and you're done.

I just think it was one of our leverages of being the encompassing species of the franchise.

[Mistic]

I then went on at creating a custom timeline as well as outline for such a scenario where growing tensions between colonists, governments and corporations would lead to a series skirmishes about the ownership of worlds and the rights of colonials, these would ultimately lead to a series of treaties that clearly defined the Alliance as the face of a unified Humanity; Earth's governments mostly pull themselves out of colonial development, they keep a few space outposts and warships for territorial protection but most military assets are ceded to the newly founded Alliance navy. Corporations are demilitarized and relieved of much of their assets. Major colonies are brought under direct administration of a local Alliance government, but in return are granted civil rights and protection.

 

Sounds like several Gundam stories I've heard of. It makes sense, and given humanity's track record, it's not difficult to imagine sources of conflict between Earth and its colonies and the need of a supranational (supraplanetary?) organization to keep the peace.

 

But I guess the writers didn't think too much about that. Better to say that "humanity is just that special" and go with it.

[AlleyD]

I have a (completely made up out of nowhere) theory on that one. Basically the humans walked right in the middle of a political situation that was extremely lucky for them.

- The humans already built a small but still formidable military force in anticipation of first contact. Why they did that is unclear, either because Alliance leaders were paranoid or to stimulate the economy of earth and it's early colonies or whatever (in Revelation, Hackett speculates that Alliance crass already knew about another potentially hostile race being out there long before the First Contact War for example).

- During the First Contact War, humans show that they are very adaptive tacticians and a fairly aggressive and formidable species. That's how they first get on the councils radar.

- At this time, the council has issues with the batarians in the Attican Traverse. The batarians have been a constant source of trouble for the council ever since they showed upon the galactic map (see the second paragraph here). It is possible that in the 2150s and 60s they started another aggressive campaign in the region, maybe even reaching out to the Terminus systems.

- The council cannot afford another direct confrontation with the batarians because they fear that the conflict could escalate. Yet, they can't ignore their constant aggressive expansion that starts to summon unpleasant memories of the onset of the krogan rebellion.

- Enter the humans, who conveniently show up right at the batarians's doorstep. Because of the skirmishes during the First Contact War and the subsequent lsos of human life at the hands of a council species, they have the perfect excuse to jump start the human's development through "reparations", concessions, developmental aid, etc. in the next few years, all with the intent to foster a power struggle between the humans and the batarians in the Traverse and thus keep the batarians out of the council's hair (it would be just like the asari and salarians to cook up a plan like that, the turians will go along and the humans will be happy to be pawns in this game if it gives them advantages).

=> The humans develop like crazy, build one colony after another and even get an embassy in record time while the batarians are kept bottled up in the traverse.

It's a typical proxy war strategy, only in this case, the humans are the proxy and it all works to their advantage. It's only later, when the humans have their embassy and everything that the council tries to reduce their support (the discovery if illegal AI research by humans on Sidon gives them the opportunity to do so for example).

 

I also thought that humans were fortunate when they encountered the Council and I think there is plenty of evidence to support your Batarian theory, plus another conflict.

 

As I understand, the Council had ceased to expand for a period of centuries after the Rachni and Krogan wars. They appear to have made the same decisions as Hadrian and the Chinese had adopted after major crisis events. They had recognised their political expansion had progressed to a point where it stretched the ability to police and protect the Empire. That the costs of expansion were greater than the perceived benefits to the political elites. The became entrenched behind their borders.

 

They recognised Batarians into the Council after a century of economic trading between the Volus and Batarians. Batarian's became more aggressive in 1785CE and continued right through for centuries of skirmish wars; . Sometime around 1785 CE, a Batarian fleet bombarded the salarian colony world of Mannovai; in 1913, the Batarian Hegemony annexed the independent Asari colony of Esan; and in 2115, Citadel forces skirmished with Batarian forces on the planet Enael. The Batarians also adopted proxy policies of supporting criminal and terrorist organizations and a never halting slaving and piracy campaign, and expanding into the vacuum of space that the Council's entrenchment policy had produced.

 

I believe that the Council's escalated their entrenchment because of the Batarian crisis of the previous several centuries. They adopted a policy similar to the one adopted by Shogun age Japan where even the most minor transgression of the territories by "aliens" was met with extreme force. Then come the humans in 2157. I think you are right that Humanity may have been perceived as a way of the Council to tackle the Batarians at a greatly reduced cost, and limit the capability of both species, enabling both to be absorbed into the vassal states assigned to Volus, Elcor, Hanar; or -if the conflict between humans and Batarians weakened both species enough- ostracize them into the status assigned to Krogan and Quarians, or possibly anhiliated like the Rachni.

 

Pity for the Council and the Batarians  that humanity, and the groups in galactic society that would benefit from a major economic expansion or increase in political influence allied and supporting the expansion- were able to be far more effective in the role that the Council Species Elites had assigned to them in the late 2150's-2160's. It was not a human expansion, but a multi species migration and pacification.

 

Some of the conflicts after 2160's were significantly larger scope than the ones in Dialog and were fought with colonial militia and PMC's. Probably most notably being Anhur Ebellions in 2176-2178. The Colony was founded in 2165 and has a reported population of 208,587,000.

 

A garden world with heavy populations of humans and batarians, Anhur was home to one of the ugliest violations of sapient rights in modern human history. A consortium of corporations and corrupt politicians, fearing batarian economic competition due to their custom of legal slavery, passed a resolution that abolished the minimum wage - effectively relegalizing slavery on a human-dominated world.

Opponents of the motion quickly turned to activism and violence. A civil war erupted as one side sought to end slavery throughout the system and the other, primarily a batarian faction called the Na'hesit, sought to keep the slaves they had. The Anhur Rebellions raged from 2176 to 2178. The Na'hesit had a significant advantage in ships, labor, and weapons, forcing the Anhur militias to hire mercenary companies to even the odds. In the end the abolitionists won out, though at the cost of much of their infrastructure. Though Anhur today still has significant natural wealth, it is economically depressed save for the reconstruction industry.

 

Nothing about the Alliance having anything to do with this conflict.

[themikefest]

Grunt can hold the line by himself without being loyal and survive, but when he's sent back to escort the crew, he dies.

[LineHolder]

After the **** humans have pulled, why aren't they as derided as the Batarians and the Krogan? Strong arming the Council, giving birth to Cerberus (a human organization) that, if you take ME3 seriously, nearly succeeds in wiping out the galaxy by fighting in every theater of war. And on top of this, the other races contribute to send most of their forces to liberate Earth. That **** doesn't make sense.

[Arisugawa]

It's always bothered me that the Atlas you use in the Grissom Academy mission has shattered cockpit glass. It's almost as though the designers couldn't be bothered to develop two visual displays: an undamaged one for that scene, and a damaged one for every time you hijack an Atlas by killing its pilot.

 

I suppose someone on Grissom Academy might have damaged that Atlas while trying to defend the station, but that feels like I'm trying to justify the shattered cockpit as opposed to that being a legitimate explanation.

[Grieving Natashina]

Since this is the thread for discussing plot elements that don't make sense, or for things that just bug people, this is mine. I've read up to this point and there has been some great discussions all around

This is more of something that bugs the crap out of me, that isn't exactly plot related:

So, I'm playing ME3 last week and I talking to (imho) the best Asari in the series, Matriarch Aethyta. Now the whole "No one messes with my girl," line from Shepard was pretty cringe worthy. I let it slide because my Sheps usually get along with Liara, and see her as a kid sister. It was awkward, but it didn't bother me too much.

No, what bothered me was the line "I've seen the way you look at each other. I'm surprised your panties haven't caught fire." Um, what the blue hell? That worked for my first Shepard, since she did romance Liara. However on my Colonist/Sole Survior path, where I played that Shep a little xenophobic, that threw me off. It didn't help that that particular Shep was straight and not sexually attracted to the female form in the first place.

I understand folks aren't fond of forced friendships in BW games, with characters such as her, Garrus and Varric. I personally like those characters overall, but what I don't care for is that line outside of the romance.

I know that Liara was the Creator's Pet. It's one thing to have a forced/canon friendship, it's another to throw a rather sexually charged line at Shep out of nowhere. It's the only time I really disliked Aethyta, although it's more of the writers thinking that was fine to leave that line unchanged for even an unromanced Shep.

[Barquiel]

The Aethyta thing is a bug. There is an appropriate non-romance line, but it didn't seem to fire for some people (I know someone suggested that telling Liara to take a break when you first talk to her on the Citadel may trigger the erroneous dialogue with Aethyta later). The bug isn't doing anything wrong in my case, but I thought they have fixed it?

[Bowlcuts]

Since this is the thread for discussing plot elements that don't make sense, or for things that just bug people, this is mine. I've read up to this point and there has been some great discussions all around

This is more of something that bugs the crap out of me, that isn't exactly plot related:

So, I'm playing ME3 last week and I talking to (imho) the best Asari in the series, Matriarch Aethyta. Now the whole "No one messes with my girl," line from Shepard was pretty cringe worthy. I let it slide because my Sheps usually get along with Liara, and see her as a kid sister. It was awkward, but it didn't bother me too much.

No, what bothered me was the line "I've seen the way you look at each other. I'm surprised your panties haven't caught fire." Um, what the blue hell? That worked for my first Shepard, since she did romance Liara. However on my Colonist/Sole Survior path, where I played that Shep a little xenophobic, that threw me off. It didn't help that that particular Shep was straight and not sexually attracted to the female form in the first place.

I understand folks aren't fond of forced friendships in BW games, with characters such as her, Garrus and Varric. I personally like those characters overall, but what I don't care for is that line outside of the romance.

I know that Liara was the Creator's Pet. It's one thing to have a forced/canon friendship, it's another to throw a rather sexually charged line at Shep out of nowhere. It's the only time I really disliked Aethyta, although it's more of the writers thinking that was fine to leave that line unchanged for even an unromanced Shep.

Yup, don't worry, same thing happens to me all the time. Instead, I get the good little dialogue on top of that where she says that I'm her damn boyfriend. I mostly avoid Aethyta because of that very thing. 

Silly Natashina, don't you know Liara is your girlfriend no matter what you think?