120 réponses à ce sujet

[SofaJockey]

Hey, I hope you enjoy it!    I couldn't get into it, but that doesn't make it a bad game.  It's just not for me.  

 

I couldn't get into the Witcher (well, Witcher II, as I'm on console).

I gave it another go, got through the learning and then loved it.

 

It's a shame the OP didn't like DAI.

Critical success as it is, it isn't everyone's choice or taste and there are things I'm sure will be finessed in DA4, it being a cross-gen title.

 

There little enough RPG out there, so personally I embrace each opportunity, racing and sport games simply don't interest me.

[Bioware-Critic]

They hold back PC games in the sense that if consoles didn't exist, games would naturally have been optimised for PCs. Inquisition was designed to work best on consoles from the looks of it. The UI is proof of that. I didn't play it on a console, so I can't confirm whether it handles badly or not, but the version we got on the PC could have been better designed by a 9 year old. The reason I suspect why design was not changed to better fit KBM was money. And time too, i guess. EAware decided to cut cost and give us a poor PC port, as a lot of devs do these days. I can understand indies doing this, but from a megacorporation like EA, this is inexcusable. If you are going to charge 60+ USD for a product, I better be getting something of value.

 

Also I imagine the game handles bad on consoles mainly because a controller just isn't particularly good control device for this type of game. Controllers have very specific genres they're good at, like fighting games and platformers.

 

Thanx for your response

 

 

Well, that is exactly my point!

This "world - where other systems don't exist" is not the world any of us lives in - or is it???

 

I don't want any platform to compromise another platform in any way - no matter how small the impact may be! Because every real, customer friendly and user oriented "evolution" (in the right direction) of games and game-developement, is VERY important and should be the normal thing to exspect in 2015. We are a technologically evolved race in this part of the universe - FCOL! But since that is not case in this industry since bloody forever! "Upper-tier" PC-hardware has ALWAYS gotten ... "the short end of the stick"! Tell me one example, one timeframe, when this wasn't the case ... There is no example for that - EVER! No game that came out has ever featured software componants that could only be taken advantage of by only the most high-class graphics cards - when it comes to the mass market. And because this is the case since pretty much the beginning of the industry ... the publishers do nothing but put out some PR that "tells" they "would" cater to PC's with upper-tier componants. Which - again - never is the case. If the game they put out even runs on a "mid-tier" graphics card or even "low-tier" hardware like "old consoles", you can bet the lives of your own family members on the fact that, they are lying with every word they tell the PC community! It is not even worthy of discussion. Since consoles are around for decades now and this PC-unfriendlyness is only going to get worse with "Tablets" and "Smartphones" ... there is no "PC-friendly-market" in sight! But so is no "Console-friendly-market" or a market that only caters to the "Flagship-Smartphones".

There is only this "unification" ... Only the "big pot" ... where the developers and publishers throw everything in all together, now, and in the future!

Every gamer hates this ... every developer should hate it ... and NOBODY wins, here - except for the publishers!

 

I am not saying I accept any of it - not at all! I really hate this!

What I am saying is, that this ... "wishful thinking" ... of getting a "hardware-sensitive" game-developement for any platform, is beside the point of "reasoning" - even beside the point of arguing, regarding this current industry!

 

And from my point of view ... DA:I was NOT developed to run/or handle very well on consoles, either!

 

Before we can find a way to "get rid" of the "pest" that are the current big publishers and all of their maniacal, greedy, money centric, schemes and plans ... we will have NOTHING! ... "nothing at all" ...

 

This whole industry is shifting into a "parallel world" only to be described as a creative wasteland without any consumer-friendlyness or culture left to cherrish ... It is a bloody nightmare what these "money-people" have turned this industry into!

[Spellbound7]

Didn't CD Projekt RED release the Witcher 2 on consoles as a proper port? They made the Witcher 2 initially for PC and then came out with a port for consoles after that was apparently a really well made port. I havent played the Witcher 2 much because I find the combat unplayable (coz Im terrible) but if you want a company that still has artistic integrity, I'd look to them. I'm a bit sad that I don't really care for the Witcher universe. My hype level for Witcher 3 is non-existent.

 

Also, I didn't mean that we can only have a good PC port in a world where only PCs exist, I mean that even in this world, proper PC ports SHOULD be a thing because games are so expensive. EA can really afford to fund a proper PC port.

[DarkAmaranth1966]

I'd say consoles held DAI back considerably given the recent interview with Mike Laidlaw. http://www.eurogamer...s-of-dragon-age

 

We'd have the battles for the keeps and such were it not for consoles, it worked on PC but not on console so, yes PC players have a valid point in saying consoles hold back PC games.

 

Not that I want to exclude consoles, but I think the industry needs to get away form the idea that the game must be identical across all platforms. Give PC what you want to give it, do something else for consoles. Okay, a large battle with lots of targets in all directions doesn't work on console, but it does on PC, give that to PC and, replace it with a single giant boss that drops the same loot as the whole army does on PC. Now consoles have equal but different, and that's fine.

[SomberXIII]

 

Out.

The best word ever. Bye Bye. Never return. OUT!

[Bioware-Critic]

I'd say consoles held DAI back considerably given the recent interview with Mike Laidlaw. http://www.eurogamer...s-of-dragon-age

 

We'd have the battles for the keeps and such were it not for consoles, it worked on PC but not on console so, yes PC players have a valid point in saying consoles hold back PC games.

 

Not that I want to exclude consoles, but I think the industry needs to get away form the idea that the game must be identical across all platforms. Give PC what you want to give it, do something else for consoles. Okay, a large battle with lots of targets in all directions doesn't work on console, but it does on PC, give that to PC and, replace it with a single giant boss that drops the same loot as the whole army does on PC. Now consoles have equal but different, and that's fine.

 

No comment!

 

You did not understand a word of what I wrote - believe me!

 

Little hint: The developers have nothing to say. It is all about what the publishers want now. And they don't care what they throw under the bus or how this comes to pass ... All of what you are saying here I can counter with ease ... But I won't do it ... I have said more than I should, already.

 

And I really do not mean to be unfriendly or rude (or anything) to anybody when I phrase my response this way - I SIMPLY MEAN WHAT I SAY

[brisingr90]

I am quite agree that Inquisition is BAD. It only have a little piece of DA:O. The combat mechanic is ok, but in depth story, side quest and class specialization is nowhere near DA:O or even DA:2. 

[Darkly Tranquil]

I couldn't get into the Witcher (well, Witcher II, as I'm on console).
I gave it another go, got through the learning and then loved it.
 
There little enough RPG out there, so personally I embrace each opportunity, racing and sport games simply don't interest me.

Are you playing on console, SofaJockey? RPGs are alive and well on PC. In 2014 there was Divinity: Original Sin, Wasteland 2, Shadowrun: Dragonfall, The Banner Saga, Legend of Grimrock 2, and in 2015 we're getting Pillars of Eternity, Shadowrun: Hong Kong, (hopefully) Torment: Tides of Numenera, and (hopefully) Sword Coast Legends as well as a couple more that are more tentative about release dates, and that's not even including the obvious (and cross platform) ones like Witcher 3. If Western RPGs are your thing, PC is the place to be, and other than Witcher 3, you don't even need a particularly powerful PC to run most of them.

[Bioware-Critic]

Didn't CD Projekt RED release the Witcher 2 on consoles as a proper port? They made the Witcher 2 initially for PC and then came out with a port for consoles after that was apparently a really well made port. I havent played the Witcher 2 much because I find the combat unplayable (coz Im terrible) but if you want a company that still has artistic integrity, I'd look to them. I'm a bit sad that I don't really care for the Witcher universe. My hype level for Witcher 3 is non-existent.

 

Also, I didn't mean that we can only have a good PC port in a world where only PCs exist, I mean that even in this world, proper PC ports SHOULD be a thing because games are so expensive. EA can really afford to fund a proper PC port.

 

Yeah I think you, really, do understand me

 

The games are enormously expensive these days and the publishers make a ton of profit ... they are very, very skilled in that regard! When they tell us about problems with funding it is most likely a big fat lie - nothing else! They just want all the money ... that's all ...

Proper profits are not the problem. And many/most developers could put out  a "proper port" for every platform - they just don't do it!

They handle the develpement very badly, because they have no choice on the matter, because they get rushed like nobodies business !!!

When it comes to the publishers ... "develpement-time" is the new enemy! That bloody thing is ... "to be killed on sight" ...

 

"You developers want to do what?" ... "A RPG?" ... "We don't care!" ... "Do it in the time it takes to pump out a FPS-game!"

 

The publishers don't respect human needs (like KB&M controlls or a proper UI for PC-users or any other system) or anything ...

They want to "hammer through" their strategies no matter how ill they fit in every regard! "Reality", itself, has to go somewhere else because the "ego of the current CEO" is too big to fit in this place (reality) ... So ... get lost ... you millions of consumers, with your silly old wants and needs!

 

"And make way for the new rules of this industry ... you peasants"

 

They could easily take the time to produce proper games that have proper UI and everything else. The money to do it is there! But I highly doubt that - with the bigger budgets these days - we will see too many AAA-games that only run on one platform again. (But even that could be arranged.) It is just not what these rich, greedy bastards - who rule everything right now - want.

And we, as consumers, certainly have no "say" in it - at all. Very much like the developers have no "say" in it ...

I would like to think that the develpers would do a proper port when they had the chance. They probably would even say, from the get go ...

 

"Forget the old consols! Let's wait a year and then let us launch a finished product that fits the new tech!"

 

And as a owner of old consoles and a fan of the franchise - I would love that! And would gladly buy a new console - just for this title!

(Oh and by the way - somebody in this thread mentioned that DA:I did not run old consoles - I played through the title on PS3 without to many hick-ups and the problems I had were far less than the mess present on PC!)

 

 

I guess, from the point of view of the "money-people" ... the VG industry is a golden goose! You can "copy and paste" the products to produce more units and even sell the products with a "nostalgia-factor" when there time has passed already ...

 

They will never let this "opportunity" go "to milk this cow" until kindom come! Indies are the only place to look for traditional genre-games or any kind of "PC-platform-catering" ... in the moment. Maybe this will change. But not without a propper "miracle"!

The publishers are way too strong !!! And they don't care ...

[Vanth]

Didn't CD Projekt RED release the Witcher 2 on consoles as a proper port? They made the Witcher 2 initially for PC and then came out with a port for consoles after that was apparently a really well made port. I havent played the Witcher 2 much because I find the combat unplayable (coz Im terrible) but if you want a company that still has artistic integrity, I'd look to them. I'm a bit sad that I don't really care for the Witcher universe. My hype level for Witcher 3 is non-existent.

I'm looking forward to their Cyberpunk RPG.

[SofaJockey]

Are you playing on console, SofaJockey? RPGs are alive and well on PC. In 2014 there was Divinity: Original Sin, Wasteland 2, Shadowrun: Dragonfall, The Banner Saga, Legend of Grimrock 2, and in 2015 we're getting Pillars of Eternity, Shadowrun: Hong Kong, (hopefully) Torment: Tides of Numenera, and (hopefully) Sword Coast Legends as well as a couple more that are more tentative about release dates, and that's not even including the obvious (and cross platform) ones like Witcher 3. If Western RPGs are your thing, PC is the place to be, and other than Witcher 3, you don't even need a particularly powerful PC to run most of them.

 

I am, yes.

 

I've seen Divinity:Original Sin in the App store on my Mac (I own no PC of any kind).

The images looked like Baldur's Gate which I played to death back in the day.

If it's worth playing I might give it a go.

 

I even bought the Baldur's Gate remaster for iPad but to be honest it didn't hold my interest any more.

For that reason Pillars of Eternity (more Baldur's Gate) is not floating my boat, I assume it won't run on Mac anyway.

 

I'm looking forward to Witcher 3, certainly.

 

I watched the trailer to Final Fantasy XV which just looked like fashion dudes with big swords.

 

After TW3 I reckon that's it until I can feast on Tomb Raider and the next Assassin's Creed set in my home town.

Maybe we'll get a next gen Mass Effect Trilogy in there too?

No, I'm not playing Elder Scrolls Online, the beta was soulless and disappointing.

 

Beyond that, Fallout 4, Cyberpunk and Mass Effect 'next' please.

 

For now? DAI. I've played it more than DAO.

(Have been enjoying Ori and the Blind Forest, this last week, but have had to stop as I can't quite manage it...)

[Darkly Tranquil]

Beyond that, Fallout 4, Cyberpunk and Mass Effect 'next' please.
 
For now? DAI. I've played it more than DAO.

If you played DAO on console, I can understand that, DAO can only be fully experienced on PC; the console port is a pale shadow of the game the way it was intended (I played PC and PS3; DAO is what got me back into PC gaming). From my observation, people who've only played DA on console tend not to fully appreciate what makes DAI so galling to a lot of PC players because the differences between DAI and DAO on console are far less grating than on PC. As for myself, DAI left such a sour taste in my mouth one run was all I could stand. I highly doubt I will play it again.

Regarding the other games you mentioned, I will be surprised if any of them are out before 2016 at the earliest. I have a feeling 2015 is going to be almost as poor for AAA games as 2014 was. Witcher 3 (fingers crossed) is looking like the stand-out at this stage.

[SofaJockey]

If you played DAO on console, I can understand that, DAO can only be fully experienced on PC; the console port is a pale shadow of the game the way it was intended (I played PC and PS3; DAO is what got me back into PC gaming). From my observation, people who've only played DA on console tend not to fully appreciate what makes DAI so galling to a lot of PC players because the differences between DAI and DAO on console are far less grating than on PC. As for myself, DAI left such a sour taste in my mouth one run was all I could stand. I highly doubt I will play it again.

Regarding the other games you mentioned, I will be surprised if any of them are out before 2016 at the earliest. I have a feeling 2015 is going to be almost as poor for AAA games as 2014 was. Witcher 3 (fingers crossed) is looking like the stand-out at this stage.

 

I played DAO on a Mac, does that count? 

And the first Mass Effect was on a PC when I had one.

 

Wow, console controls were so strange when I first played Mass Effect on Xbox, I almost gave up there and then, though now it's second nature.

 

You're right, I don't think I can fully appreciate the PC players' concern, I just wish those concerns were expressed more constructively.

I've seen comments on this forum wishing developers physical harm, it's just not called for.

 

As for the Witcher 3, that its forum is consumed by folk whining about the quality of the grass makes me despair for forum participants everywhere.

 

I'm patient. 2016 will come (and there's always DAI DLC  .

Multiplayer has been a revelation, I first played one with MEMP, now DAMP is entertaining me.

[Darkly Tranquil]

I played DAO on a Mac, does that count? 
And the first Mass Effect was on a PC when I had one.
 
Wow, console controls were so strange when I first played Mass Effect on Xbox, I almost gave up there and then, though now it's second nature.
 
You're right, I don't think I can fully appreciate the PC players' concern, I just wish those concerns were expressed more constructively.
I've seen comments on this forum wishing developers physical harm, it's just not called for.
 
As for the Witcher 3, that its forum is consumed by folk whining about the quality of the grass makes me despair for forum participants everywhere.
 
I'm patient. 2016 will come (and there's always DAI DLC  .
Multiplayer has been a revelation, I first played one with MEMP, now DAMP is entertaining me.

Yeah, if you played with M&K it counts (although were you able to use mods, because that adds a lot to the experience also?).

For me it's frustrating because I prefer M&K every time and the control implementation in DAI is just so awkward. It's quite hard to articulate exactly what feels wrong with it except to say that it just seems very controller oriented; the more action oriented combat does not really fit well with M&K (despite my preference I ended using a 360 controller), and the menus are very badly optimised for mouse, having clearly been designed around controller limitations. For me, the biggest issues are probably small in the grander scheme of things, but make a huge difference to the play experience. Things like being able to zoom TacCam in and out with the mouse scroll wheel, being able to click to move to a location, and not having to navigate TacCam with WASD, would make a huge difference, in addition to the more general problems with the companion AI and the stripping out of the Tactics system (a travesty in my view).

Personally, I always thought the DAO control scheme was pretty much ideal, even if the pacing was a bit slow, which DA2 fixed. For me (putting aside the silliness of Greatsword animations), DA2 was overall the sweet spot for combat, just needing the Origins TacCam to make it perfect; I've never had more fun in DA combat than as a dagger rogue in DA2. Sadly, DAI has drifted pretty far from that and now feels more like an ARPG than a tactical one, which is a huge letdown to me since I prefer slower paced strategic gameplay over frenzied action (which is why I love turn based RPGs).

For what it's worth, I agree about the way many people have expressed their issues, but it's the internet so it's to be expected.

[SofaJockey]

Yeah, Yeah, if you played with M&K it counts (although were you able to use mods, because that adds a lot to the experience also?).

*good stuff snipped for space*

For what it's worth, I agree about the way many people have expressed their issues, but it's the internet so it's to be expected.

 

Yep, I was on M&K.

And also yes, I played Rogue Hawke also.

 

M&K, particularly DAO made me feel as though I was directing the battle.

My controller play on XB1 makes me feel much more 'in the battle'.

 

My first DAI playthroughs were dominated by Tac Cam.

Yet I've now played so much DA multiplayer, that like with Mass Effect multiplayer, you really do get so much better at the Single Player game as well.

 

I now play DAI Single Player like multiplayer, in real time, but flitting between the characters and no it's not all hack and slash,

it has its positional tactics (small 't') but just different to paused Tac Cam.

[Darkly Tranquil]

M&K, particularly DAO made me feel as though I was directing the battle.
My controller play on XB1 makes me feel much more 'in the battle'.

This nicely articulates my main issue; I like directing the battle rather than being in it. The "chess match" approach is far more appealing to me than the action combat aspect. If I want to play an action combat game, I'd play Dark Souls instead.

[Poisd2Strike]

The 8 ability limitation is there because the game was designed for console controllers. That limitation is there on the PC too.

 

 

 

That can't be true, since neither DAO nor DA2 on console had the limit. It's an intentional design choice. Probably to do what Vancian magic does, which is a horrible system that frankly no one likes besides the nostalgia. 

 

 

Limiting the number of abilities is likely do to the introduction of Multiplayer mode.  Neither DAO nor DA2 supported Multiplayer, and neither had an 8 slot limitation (for Single-player) or 4 slot limitation (for Multiplayer) that DAI does.  Granted, I don't see why DAI Multiplayer does not also support 8 slots like Single-player.  My guess is a "hard limit" (especially for MP) was implemented to prevent the game from pausing during combat in Multiplayer and / or from obstructing a player's POV during Multiplayer.  Bioware could always Patch DAMP to increase the number of slots (from 4 to 8, which would match SP Mode)  without requiring a pause or need for a Radial menu.  While a Radial menu would certainly work fine during Single-player (even if it paused combat), bringing up a Radial menu during MP would have likely obstructed the player's POV (and possibly even paused combat).  Bioware probably decided that either of those outcomes would be unacceptable for DAMP.

[SofaJockey]

This nicely articulates my main issue; I like directing the battle rather than being in it. The "chess match" approach is far more appealing to me than the action combat aspect. If I want to play an action combat game, I'd play Dark Souls instead.

 

That's insightful.

Is that what the auto-attack issue is all about, perhaps?

 

By clicking a foe you 'direct' the character to attack.

By clicking to attack you 'inhabit' the character attacking.

 

It's quite a significant conceptual difference.

 

When the technology was at the level of Baldur's Gate, all you could do is 'direct' the characters as the graphical fidelity wasn't there.

But then games like Morrowind and perhaps NWN allowed you to inhabit the character. The original Mass Effect would be another example.

 

Sure DAO allowed you to kick back to directing Baldur's Gate style, but you could also 'run in fighting'.

 

Perhaps I want to have my cake and eat it, something DAI attempts to do with action attack and tactical cam, acknowledging both camps.

That kind of works for me as my gaming roots are 1) Dungeons and Dragons, but also the immersion of 2) a Star Wars arcade game - for 10 minutes, I was that X-Wing pilot...

 

(In case people wonder what I'm on about, from 1983, you sat in them and they were awesome...:

)

 

Anyway, for that reason I like immersive RPG of various flavours, so:

• Dragon Age
• Mass Effect
• Elder Scrolls
• Tomb Raider
• Fallout
• The Witcher

Must be 3rd person view to validate RPG

Ideally inhabiting not directing (though can direct if required).

 

Neither are more right, but they are different philosophies.

[Darkly Tranquil]

That's insightful.

Is that what the auto-attack issue is all about, perhaps?

 

By clicking a foe you 'direct' the character to attack.

By clicking to attack you 'inhabit' the character attacking.

 

It's quite a significant conceptual difference.

 

When the technology was at the level of Baldur's Gate, all you could do is 'direct' the characters as the graphical fidelity wasn't there.

But then games like Morrowind and perhaps NWN allowed you to inhabit the character. The original Mass Effect would be another example.

 

Sure DAO allowed you to kick back to directing Baldur's Gate style, but you could also 'run in fighting'.

 

Perhaps I want to have my cake and eat it, something DAI attempts to do with action attack and tactical cam, acknowledging both camps.

That kind of works for me as my gaming roots are 1) Dungeons and Dragons, but also the immersion of 2) a Star Wars arcade game - for 10 minutes, I was that X-Wing pilot...

 

(In case people wonder what I'm on about, from 1983, you sat in them and they were awesome...:

)

 

Anyway, for that reason I like immersive RPG of various flavours, so:

• 
  
• Dragon Age
• 
  
• Mass Effect
• 
  
• Elder Scrolls
• 
  
• Tomb Raider
• 
  
• Fallout
• 
  
• The Witcher
• 
  

Must be 3rd person view to validate RPG

Ideally inhabiting not directing (though can direct if required).

 

Neither are more right, but they are different philosophies.

 

Yes, very much so. Auto-attack, or the lack of it, was a major bugbear for me when DAI came out for exactly that reason. I love DAO most because it felt like it married the directing aspect with the inhabiting aspect exceptionally well. DAI feels like its playstyle is far more oriented to the "inhabiting" than the directing, which makes for a pretty alienating experience for me, which is why I'm really looking forward to Pillars of Eternity, since its very much in the old BG "directing" style, which is my comfort zone.

 

Now that I think about it, I think you've really hit on something there, as I find I can't play first person RPGs like Skyrim, because it lacks that "director" feel. I tend to avoid first person games in general, unless its a straight out first person shooter. The only exception is and old school "blobber" like Eye of the Beholder or Legend of Grimrock.

 

I know what you mean about the old arcade sims. Although my favourite was Afterburner:

Spoiler

[AlanC9]

Makes sense. Why doesn't Tactical mode work for you?

[Jeffry]

Makes sense. Why doesn't Tactical mode work for you?

 

Maybe because of similar reasons it doesn't work for many other players who expected DAO tac cam, like... you know... we were promised? I am just guessing here...

 

And there are dozens of topics discussing just how it doesn't work for us. The most common things mentioned are no edge pan, not zoomable far away, not zoomable through ceilings, not being able to hover over obstacles, not being able to control more than 1 character at the same time and other things I am forgetting right now.

[Darkly Tranquil]

Makes sense. Why doesn't Tactical mode work for you?

 

Because its so awkward to use. If it was implemented the way it was in Origins, half my issues would vanish overnight.

[SofaJockey]

Sounds like the issues some folk are having with Tac Cam are to do with the Frostbite 3 mechanic that makes it possible.

 

(if I understand it correctly, I may have it wrong),

that the Tac Cam follows the path of an 'invisible' party member, struggling to move where a party member could not move

i.e. over a terrain drop where a party member could not travel,

 

but that's a different mechanic to where a Tac Cam is not in lieu of an 'invisible' party member

but is a free-ranging 'directing eye' not limited by the terrain or room volume.

 

It's playing to the same 'inhabiting' vs. 'directing' concept.

DAO tac cam was a 'directed eye', as was Baldur's Gate in entirety.

 

Frostbite 3, for all its beauty was never designed for 'directed battle', - I assume

and so it struggles at a conceptual level with that.

 

Maybe I'm talking cobblers here, I don't know, but it might explain

why different people feel differently about the game and why it can at the same time be a critical success, GOTY's etc

(I think the game is terrific) but at the same time be disappointing for a significant group,

particularly some of those with a longer history with the franchise as 'directing' players.

[Darkly Tranquil]

Maybe I'm talking cobblers here, I don't know, but it might explain
why different people feel differently about the game and why it can at the same time be a critical success, GOTY's etc
(I think the game is terrific) but at the same time be disappointing for a significant group,
particularly some of those with a longer history with the franchise as 'directing' players.

No, I think you're right on the money, at least in terms of my experience. Can't speak for anyone else of course.

[SofaJockey]

No, I think you're right on the money, at least in terms of my experience. Can't speak for anyone else of course.

 

Good, I feel more aware now.

(we might have derailed the thread about uninstalling the game for a few posts though   )

 

It's like Sera's cookies.

They are still cookies, but you never asked for raisins...