626 réponses à ce sujet

[Archdemon_Urthemiel]

Lately, I've seen posts where people say Leliana will never be divine as she is crazy or her rule is doomed to failure, but her good endings show that not only does her rule not fail but her rule results in Mage freedom and acceptance.

Why do people not like this? I honestly want to know why people seriously isn't like this.

[Archdemon_Urthemiel]

Because she should be taking anti-psychotics.

.

I want real answers not trolling.

[katerinafm]

I like the idea of Leliana as Divine for some of my playthroughs, but as for those that are against it it's probably because she is overly idealistic and that could result in problems. She is certainly not making many friends by being so radical in her changes.

[Shechinah]

I think for some it depends upon which Leliana becomes Divine as in one, if I recall correctly, it is heavily implied if not outright stated she silences all who disagrees with her through bloody means.

 

For some others, I think it is because she implements so many changes and over seemingly so little time so that it seems questionable if her decisions are going to be work or rather last because they were essentially shoved into society instead of the changes being coerced into developing over a longer period of time.

[jtav]

Paraphrased: "I will make them see." Hello, Thirty Years War.

My issues with Vivienne and Leliana are really the same: they see the office of Divine as a means to political ends.

[Archdemon_Urthemiel]

I like the idea of Leliana as Divine for some of my playthroughs, but as for those that are against it it's probably because she is overly idealistic and that could result in problems. She is certainly not making many friends by being so radical in her changes.

Her Mage endings kind of prove what she did actually worked yet I never see the referenced by Templar supporters. Why?

[TEWR]

The idea of Leliana becoming Divine is good.

 

The execution of it is horrendous and not feasible in the slightest, to say nothing of how I think her characterization was assassinated in Inquisition.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Because her ending not only is devoid of realism but also destroys complex issue that was presented in series since first product in short leliana is mary sue and her ending reflects that. 

[Angry_Elcor]

I think the more pertinent question is why would anyone care who supports what divine in their game?

[Laughing_Man]

"Good" Leliana as divine implements the biggest positive change to the Chantry since Andraste - Less racism, less rampant manaphobia.

 

Of course, not grim-dark enough for some people.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Her Mage endings kind of prove what she did actually worked yet I never see the referenced by Templar supporters. Why?

Simple: the mage endings pretty much completely destroy the pro-templar argument.

 

The pro-templar/circle arguments are based on three assumptions. If mages are given freedom they will 

 

1)Try to conquer non-mages and form another Tevinter

2) Lose control of their powers and become abominations

3) By killed by the ignorant peasants

 

Leliana's mage endings pretty much destroy these arguments in the following ways:

 

1) Once given their freedom, the mages decide to form their own independent Circle system. This plus the fact that even after the templars tried to kill them all in Asunder, the mages were STILL split 50/50 kind of shows that the mages don't want to create another Tevinter and only want to be treated as equals. Heck, they likely would have remained in the circles despite the new restrictions if Lambert didn't decide to go mage-murder happy

 

2) Mages form their own circles to teach magic anyway so there will still be schools for magic just without templars. There are still mages capable of dispelling magic so mages are capable of fighting other mages, which is also helped by the Inquisition and potentially the reformed Seekers stopping any potential magical threats.

 

3) Leliana's mage endings show that the mages are accepted throughout Thedas so they don't have to fear peasants as much. Probably helped that they aided the Inquisition with what the people considers to be the Maker's will.

[Shechinah]

It is not as much about "grim-dark" as it is about her decisions being viable or even possible in the Dragon Age universe and its setting.

[TheKomandorShepard]

"Good" Leliana as divine implements the biggest positive change to the Chantry since Andraste - Less racism, less rampant manaphobia.

 

Of course, not grim-dark enough for some people.

You mean ridiculous and unrealistic ending that would fit to my little pony not series like dragon age ?

[thesuperdarkone2]

Paraphrased: "I will make them see." Hello, Thirty Years War.

My issues with Vivienne and Leliana are really the same: they see the office of Divine as a means to political ends.

Conveniently forgetting Softened Leliana's speech where she wants the Chantry to be one where it accepts and loves people for who they are.

[Milan92]

Lately, I've seen posts where people say Leliana will never be divine as she is crazy or her rule is doomed to failure, but her good endings show that not only does her rule not fail but her rule results in Mage freedom and acceptance.

Why do people not like this? I honestly want to know why people seriously isn't like this.

 

I personally think her Good ending is too unrealistic. For decades people have feared mages, but somehow Leliana's magical diplomacy powers convince everyone to love mages and to be friends with everyone.

 

Meanwhile Cassandra's reforms are receiving opposition. Why? Because with change, there will always be people who don't like it.

[thesuperdarkone2]

You mean ridiculous and unrealistic ending that would fit to my little pony not series like dragon age ?

Go back and play DA2 if you want grimdark. The dragon age series is filled with obvious choices that get you all the benefits:

 

Having Zathrian cure the werewolves was obviously the best choice

 

Having the Circle help you cure Connor was the best choice and nobody gets hurt

 

Having Alistair and Anora marry is obviously the best choice and removes most of the problems having only one rule could have

 

You could select to protect everything in Awakening and you got all the benefits despite it not working in real life

 

Want me to continue?

[Archdemon_Urthemiel]

I personally think her Good ending is too unrealistic. For decades people have feared mages, but somehow Leliana's magical diplomacy powers convince everyone to love mages and to be friends with everyone.

Meanwhile Cassandra's reforms are receiving opposition. Why? Because with change, there will always be people who don't like it.

But what if it doesn't backfire? Leliana's ending pretty much works.

[witheredtevinter]

You mean ridiculous and unrealistic ending that would fit to my little pony not series like dragon age ?

 

Yes, so very "unrealistic" in a series where people can shift into dragons and you are the only person who can close the giant hole in the sky with the magical mark on your hand.

[Milan92]

But what if it doesn't backfire? Leliana's ending pretty much works.

 

Then it only makes her ending more ridiculous.

[Andraste Take the Wheel]

to be honest it's mostly because her hardcore supporters are really annoying, lol

[TheKomandorShepard]

Go back and play DA2 if you want grimdark. The dragon age series is filled with obvious choices that get you all the benefits:

 

Having Zathrian cure the werewolves was obviously the best choice

 

Having the Circle help you cure Connor was the best choice and nobody gets hurt

 

Having Alistair and Anora marry is obviously the best choice and removes most of the problems having only one rule could have

 

You could select to protect everything in Awakening and you got all the benefits despite it not working in real life

 

Want me to continue?

Even DG complained that he screwd up with Connor choice so well.

 

Not rly you force people that don't want marry each other also dislike each other to marry each other not black and white.

 

Only in epilogue that were rumors game outright says that you don't have people to do that. 

 

And having optimal outcome and having ridiculous outcome are 2 different things.

 

Also being realistic doesn't mean grimdark...

 

 

Yes, so very "unrealistic" in a series where people can shift into dragons and you are the only person who can close the giant hole in the sky with the magical mark on your hand.

Eee being eaten by dragon in fantasy that dragons exist don't equal saying "i love you all" and creating world peace because of that.

[R0vena]

Simple: the mage endings pretty much completely destroy the pro-templar argument.

 

The pro-templar/circle arguments are based on three assumptions. If mages are given freedom they will 

 

1)Try to conquer non-mages and form another Tevinter

2) Lose control of their powers and become abominations

3) By killed by the ignorant peasants

 

Leliana's mage endings pretty much destroy these arguments in the following ways:

 

1) Once given their freedom, the mages decide to form their own independent Circle system. This plus the fact that even after the templars tried to kill them all in Asunder, the mages were STILL split 50/50 kind of shows that the mages don't want to create another Tevinter and only want to be treated as equals. Heck, they likely would have remained in the circles despite the new restrictions if Lambert didn't decide to go mage-murder happy

 

2) Mages form their own circles to teach magic anyway so there will still be schools for magic just without templars. There are still mages capable of dispelling magic so mages are capable of fighting other mages, which is also helped by the Inquisition and potentially the reformed Seekers stopping any potential magical threats.

 

3) Leliana's mage endings show that the mages are accepted throughout Thedas so they don't have to fear peasants as much. Probably helped that they aided the Inquisition with what the people considers to be the Maker's will.

I don't think her ending destroys anything.

 

We only see the beginning in epilogue, we have no idea how it will develop further and on the global scale. Besides, if Bioware taught the player anything it is not to trust epilogues too much.

 

I personally don't think we will see much difference in the future games no matter who the Divine is.

[Elhanan]

Her solution is more like tossing out the baby and bathwater approach to the Chantry; prefer Cassandra's ideas which seem more like fixing what is broke, and keeping the rest.

[Sports72Xtrm]

Short of it- people fear change and Leliana symbolizes change. They'd rather pretend the system works, even if it doesn't. Basic human impulse to cling to the familiar, to preconceptions. Leliana, despite being a bard of skill in politics and of good moral decency, has a good chance of instigating positive change. Solas says Leliana has a brilliant mind but her faith was shaken, but after completing her personal quest the Inquisitor restores her faith so she would make a great Divine. According to Solas, Cassandra despite being decent, doesn't know how to seperate her faith from the realities of people and Vivienne, well is just status quo with an iron fist. The thought that mages could coexist in a world with out being locked up must have rankled for some people.