Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
Yay "realism" arguements for a fantasy video game
Not so much 'realism' as 'it conflicts with the tone of the established series'. In Thedas it's always three steps forward, two steps back. There's never 'unprecedented peace, acceptance, koombaya, ect'
Yes seriously - the quote I just posted is straight out of the epilogue. In what children's shows does blood run through halls? Leliana swiftly and violently puts down those in opposition to her policies, she doesn't assume that everyone would be fine with her reforms like Cass and Viv do (who as a result face protracted conflicts with their enemies).
Sorry, I needed to add this 
after "Seriously", then this 
after the quote I wrote myself straight from the epilogue together with the quote you posted. Because no matter what you get, even though she is hardened or softened, childrens are shown this plus the "happily live forever".
I can give you examples if you like, we see blood run the halls too in disney channel.
I think we all know what that means. She is going to get more power than what she has ever gained til now.
She is the only real human here. A human who knows how to control her emotions visually speaking. As a divine, she uses actions, not words to power herself people.
She had to go that low into the Inquisition, with her exaggerate fashion into muds, desserts and trees to get more power for herself, Right?
Absolutely correct.
Sorry, I needed to add this
I can give you examples if you like, we see blood run the halls too in disney channel.
But there isn't a guaranteed 'happily ever after' - she either keeps the nobility in line through fear or establishes a shaky peace with them. Your assumption that her ending is some sort of perfect fairytale ending is a misunderstanding of the epilogue.
If you think she didn't benefit from associating with the Inquisition you obviously didn't pay much attention to her. Recall how she becomes much more powerful following Bastien's death? And do you really think she could have become Divine without associating with the Inqusition? People in the Game are always looking for opportunity even if they don't know what form that opportunity will take, or even if it will benefit them. But being close to the Inquisition puts her in the perfect position to sway decisions and perhaps keep the Circle intact. The Circle mind you that she has risen up so far in and gives her much power. A religion must have ideals or else it becomes tyranny, and to be frank I'm not sure exactly what Vivenne's ideals are.
What about Dorian, Sera, Varric, What about Solas? Because those people are so nice and so talented and knowlegable that they didn't want any power themself. It's like they put Vivienne there to make you know she is jsust there to benefit from the Inquisitor alone without doing anything.
I know you hate Vivienne but seriously stop recommending anything against her like her being "power hungry, self-serving etc, just because she was mean to 2 - 6 people in your game.
to me it fits i just hate using "realistic" for fantasy its just silly play witcher if you want thatNot so much 'realism' as 'it conflicts with the tone of the established series'. In Thedas it's always three steps forward, two steps back. There's never 'unprecedented peace, acceptance, koombaya, ect'
to me it fits i just hate using "realistic" for fantasy its just silly play witcher if you want that
How about 'believable' then? There have to be elements that we can recognize from real life otherwise we can't connect. The fantasy elements are there to add wonder/horror to the story.
In other words: I'm not going to eat something that I can't recognize as food. Fruit salad? Great! Steak tartar? A little unusual, but ok. Fugu sashimi? Risky, but worth it! Shredded paper and vaporub? Nope!
DA has consistently showed that intolerance and bigotry are widespread problems, and for them to poof out of existence like that... It's a stretch.
But there isn't a guaranteed 'happily ever after' - she either keeps the nobility in line through fear or establishes a shaky peace with them. Your assumption that her ending is some sort of perfect fairytale ending is a misunderstanding of the epilogue.
You stand correct, my assumption is exactly that, most people think her ending with just those texts in the epilogue means it's the perfect fairytale ending.
If you check the posts of those who support Leliana, I don't know yourself..... They think Leliana is the only solution and blatantly disregard any other unknown person, except Cassandra and Mother Giselle.
She was mean to who? I'm confused. What 2-6 people? Anyway I don't hate Vivienne. I think she's nice in her own way and I don't mind her gaining some power off of Bastien's death. She did really seem to love him after all. What I don't like is her lack of idealism which I think suits a Divine very poorly. "For those who value survival, sentimentality is not an option". It's crap like that I hate. A religion should have ideals, it shouldn't be a way for someone to gain power and I fear that's how Vivienne views her position.What about Dorian, Sera, Varric, What about Solas? Because those people are so nice and so talented and knowlegable that they didn't want any power themself. It's like they put Vivienne there to make you know she is jsust there to benefit from the Inquisitor alone without doing anything.
I know you hate Vivienne but seriously stop recommending anything against her like her being "power hungry, self-serving etc, just because she was mean to 2 - 6 people in your game.
yes i would prefer "believeable"How about 'believable' then? There have to be elements that we can recognize from real life otherwise we can't connect. The fantasy elements are there to add wonder/horror to the story.
In other words: I'm not going to eat something that I can't recognize as food. Fruit salad? Great! Steak tartar? A little unusual, but ok. Fugu sashimi? Risky, but worth it! Shredded paper and vaporub? Nope!
DA has consistently showed that intolerance and bigotry are widespread problems, and for them to poof out of existence like that... It's a stretch.
Lately, I've seen posts where people say Leliana will never be divine as she is crazy or her rule is doomed to failure, but her good endings show that not only does her rule not fail but her rule results in Mage freedom and acceptance.
Why do people not like this? I honestly want to know why people seriously isn't like this.
Only opposed if she is not stopped from going the super killing route in the story. If Leliana becomes too murderous during the Inquisition you must stop her from becoming Divine or she will kill a great many people. She has the potential to become something of a Robespierre if you do not check this tendency as Inquisitor. If you do not then either Cass or Viv really are the safer bets (Cassandra should be first choice).
How about 'believable' then? There have to be elements that we can recognize from real life otherwise we can't connect. The fantasy elements are there to add wonder/horror to the story.
In other words: I'm not going to eat something that I can't recognize as food. Fruit salad? Great! Steak tartar? A little unusual, but ok. Fugu sashimi? Risky, but worth it! Shredded paper and vaporub? Nope!
DA has consistently showed that intolerance and bigotry are widespread problems, and for them to poof out of existence like that... It's a stretch.
I think you're twisting my point. Of course it's not a cumulative point system but the Blights aren't forgotten. In fact they can be held up as great examples, during the time of the Inquisition, as to why mages deserve acceptance. 1000 years ago nobody would have ever thought that mages deserve acceptance, now by the age of Inquisition, thanks to things like the mage contribution to the Blights etc., people like Leliana do support the mages and can hold up these incidents as reasons for why mages should be accepted. How do you think people came to accept mages? It was because the mages have built a case through these events. Sure the Blights might not create any substantial change during the time, but it's always going to be part of history and it's always going to be an example that the mages can hold up and say "we deserve to be accepted". People look at that history, and the mages that they come into contact with, and think "why don't people accept mages? They've done so much to help". That's why this change has long been coming. And that is what Leliana is pushing for. Sure it's controversial. But the case is there.
One must take the mages' rejection in both Asunder and Inquisition as simple backlash after Anders and the Conclave. But by allowing the mages to help you draw a distinction between Tevinters, like Corypheus and the Venatori, and Southern mages like the rebels aiding the Inquisition.
As I said before, this did not happen overnight. It took a thousand years of good deeds by the mages to atone for the "sins" of the Ancient Tevinter Imperium and even then it's still a precarious and conflicted thing. The case, I can't stress this analogy enough, is there.
Edit: The other point that I think is fundamental here, but may have gotten lost in the wall of text, is the idea that mages now have sympathisers and supporters like Leliana and Mother Giselle. 1000 years ago when the Tevinter Imperium fell do you think anybody felt that way about mages? I doubt it. But by the time of Inquisition the good deeds of the mages have shown the world, that perhaps mages aren't that bad. So by this time there are actually people willing to push for mage acceptance aside from mages themselves. In that chaotic time after the Circles were formed I doubt anybody was willing to do so. 1000 years of change my friend.
I understand that you saw an epilogue where mages were accepted and then attempted to construct a narrative where this makes sense but, ultimately, such a narrative goes against everything else the series has presented and thus your point does not have much ground to stand on.
Have we ever seen a single peasant saying something to the effect of "Boy, it's not right those mages are locked up when they helped us with the Second Blight all those centuries ago."? In fact, considering how most people can't even read, I doubt people know when the Second Blight happened.
In fact, have we ever seen a common man saying that mages should be free?
On the other hand, there are dozens of cases of common people and nobles and kings and priests lashing out against mages.
Therefore, a narrative where mages have been slowly gained acceptance over hundreds lacks strength because we never see any hint that that is happening.
It would have made sense in Kirkwall because there, we heard during the course of the three acts that people were turning against the Templars and the city was being divided. But neither DAI nor Asunder nor DAO ever gave any indication that was happening elsewhere.
Certainly, there are sympathizers. Mostly the wealthy who can afford to wonder just how far the world is and Leliana can certainly make a declaration the mages will be free but ultimately, the population at large has to accept that that is a reality.
And, as I said before, we are never given any indication people are more accepting of mages nowadays.
She was mean to who? I'm confused. What 2-6 people? Anyway I don't hate Vivienne. I think she's nice in her own way and I don't mind her gaining some power off of Bastien's death. She did really seem to love him after all.
Edit: I like her intelligence, her personal power and above all her skill at the Game. I just don't want her to win that Game. Same reason I like Florianne actually.
Surpirsingly, I agree with all this for sure. I can't blame anyone for that. She was advertised that way and her writer made her that way.
It's fascinating to hear this from you because I've seen some of your other posts before. Don't ask I know what you have always said all over BSN
What I don't like is her lack of idealism which I think suits a Divine very poorly. "For those who value survival, sentimentality is not an option". It's crap like that I hate. A religion should have ideals, it shouldn't be a way for someone to gain power and I fear that's how Vivienne views her position.
On a separate note I also hate (what I view as) her hypocrisy. It's all well and good to support Circles and Mages having restrictions but then you walk around freezing people you don't like?
Now this is what I like about Vivienne, obviously those who survive long enough to proceed in life, sentimentality is not an option. If sentimentality was ever an option then you wouldn't have been argumenting here. You'd have been in a center giving poor people food to survive. And I remind you the statement to that phrase was when she asked what you want " Free mages, Restore Circle, Mages in the Chantry".. ..... Has nothing to do with her lack of idealism.
She walks around like a mage yes, but before she froze that blasfemy guy... she kindly, best say politely asked you "as the wounded party" what to do to that foolish man. If you say "I don't care" she won't kill him. So please stop putting more salt at what you can't eat.
Actually, there is a perfect quote from Asunder illustrating my point:
Page 137
""Our curse?" sh spat "Our only curse is to be faced with ignorant louts like you, as if you mundanes never did anything terrible in all of history!"
"History." The man repeated the word with disgust, his upper lip curling. "I don't care about history. I care about Jean-Petit. Hid farmhouse got burned down two weeks ago, with him in it. You know who done it? His daughter, a spiteful little thing the Templars had to drag off before she killed anyone else." He loomed closer. "You think your magic impresses me? Impresses anyone?""
You stand correct, my assumption is exactly that, most people think her ending with just those texts in the epilogue means it's the perfect fairytale ending.
If you check the posts of those who support Leliana, I don't know yourself..... They think Leliana is the only solution and blatantly disregard any other unknown person, except Cassandra and Mother Giselle.
Okay, so you agree that the claim that Leliana's ending is not realistic is a misunderstanding?
Okay, so you agree that the claim that Leliana's ending is not realistic is a misunderstanding?
Oh, 
You sure better. It is indeed a misunderstanding for those adults gamers who like that "not realistic" ending with no doubt. So yes I do agree.
Actually, there is a perfect quote from Asunder illustrating my point:
Page 137
""Our curse?" sh spat "Our only curse is to be faced with ignorant louts like you, as if you mundanes never did anything terrible in all of history!"
"History." The man repeated the word with disgust, his upper lip curling. "I don't care about history. I care about Jean-Petit. Hid farmhouse got burned down two weeks ago, with him in it. You know who done it? His daughter, a spiteful little thing the Templars had to drag off before she killed anyone else." He loomed closer. "You think your magic impresses me? Impresses anyone?""
What about those people in Lowtown that hid Anders from anyone that looks for him? That go as far as to die for his sake? The people see only the bad. When did the Chantry assigned an healer to serve the people? Or when Vellana as shown in Awakening, saves an entire village from an darkspawn attack, all on her own. You think the people wouldn't be greatful an mage saved them? If it weren't for an mage, all the people in Honnleath would have died. Your argument is hollow. The people only see the bad. If mages were allowed to help the people, we would have a lot more of varied opinions.
What about those people in Lowtown that hid Anders from anyone that looks for him? That go as far as to die for his sake? The people see only the bad. When did the Chantry assigned an healer to serve the people? Or when Vellana as shown in Awakening, saves an entire village from an darkspawn attack, all on her own. You think the people wouldn't be greatful an mage saved them? If it weren't for an mage, all the people in Honnleath would have died. Your argument is hollow. The people only see the bad. If mages were allowed to help the people, we would have a lot more of varied opinions.
What about those people in Lowtown that hid Anders from anyone that looks for him? That go as far as to die for his sake? The people see only the bad. When did the Chantry assigned an healer to serve the people? Or when Vellana as shown in Awakening, saves an entire village from an darkspawn attack, all on her own. You think the people wouldn't be greatful an mage saved them? If it weren't for an mage, all the people in Honnleath would have died. Your argument is hollow. The people only see the bad. If mages were allowed to help the people, we would have a lot more of varied opinions.
Actually a Apostate tried to help Crestwood and the people of the village left him dead on the lake shore.
It may also have been the undead crawling out of the lake.
Velanna? Are you seriously using her? After she went on a killing spree because she thought humans killed her sister? She is a campe why mages shouldnt be free.
So? Loghain almost destroyed Ferelden. Didn't stoped him from helping to save the country later. Once again, this is nothing more then mage cherry picking.
So? Loghain almost destroyed Ferelden. Didn't stoped him from helping to save the country later. Once again, this is nothing more then mage cherry picking.
It may also have been the undead crawling out of the lake.
Yes cherry picking, its not like she didnt wanted to kill these humans and joined you because she wanted to find her sister.
Yes, it's cherry picking. You would have turned an blind to it if it was an member of the Chantry commiting attrocities instead. What? You think I don't know what Velanna did? I know exactly what she is responsible for. I didn't recruited her out of sympathy for mages, I recruited her because she was useful, and usually, I'm not one to waste resources. But if she couldn't be of use? I would have killed her without an doubt.
Retour en haut