Guest_StreetMagic_*
So the choices for the Divine were not meant to fit that logically into the narrative, or history of Thedeas they were put in to get an emotional and political response from the players.
I think that would be more important in the longrun. Player emotions are a cheap thrill, relatively speaking.
Honestly, everyone would have probably picked Giselle--if the Inquisition still exists who in their right mind would give up a warrior like Cass especially if she is the Inquisitor's lover? And who in their right mind would give up the best spymaster in Thedas, Leliana?
And who in their right mind would give up Vivienne? The Inquisitions best.......... Hmmm, never mind. 
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Going back to Vivienne myself. It gives her something to do.
No really, I like the mix of conservatism and controversy there.
And who in their right mind would give up Vivienne? The Inquisitions best.......... Hmmm, never mind.
I hardly ever used her, which is too bad since I love her voice. lol I think I used her in the Emerald Graves, in the haunted mansion etc.
Oh well, Giselle becoming divine might get patched in or put into a DLC some time. *Shrug*
Hmm wonder what giselle would do...
My guess would be similarities to Cassandra ending and maybe Leliana's idea for making the Circles into a college
Because they are ideologues, OP. Cassandra's rule starts a shadow war; Vivienne's starts a sectarian war, soft Leliana's has peace. Those who disagree with having Leliana as Divine can't say that her rule 'sucks', so instead they 'must' rage against it with their laughable slogan 'unrealistic'.
The term unbelievable was established to be a better word for it, as it is a valid criticism to Leliana's unhardened ending seeing as there's apparently no conflicted mentioned in how she does
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Oh well, Giselle becoming divine might get patched in or put into a DLC some time. *Shrug*
I'd be surprised.. I'd welcome it, but they're not really known for reversing major decisions like this. Can't think of an example at least.
Because they are ideologues, OP. Cassandra's rule starts a shadow war; Vivienne's starts a sectarian war, soft Leliana's has peace. Those who disagree with having Leliana as Divine can't say that her rule 'sucks', so instead they 'must' rage against it with their laughable slogan 'unrealistic'.
All three people and Vivienne more so (she is a mage), are 'unrealistic' since none of them are even chantry sisters (Leliana never took her vows) and why should they be the choices when Giselle is just as close to the Inquisitor to be voted for? Giselle has much more experience with the chantry system itself, she is not a glorified bouncer (Cassandra), she is not a glorified assassin (Leliana) she is not an overly politcal mage (Vivienne). Giselle is a chantry mother, someone whose life has been devoted to the Chantry system.
However the devs/writers made those three characters (Viv, Cass, Leli) choices to screw with the player: Gaider said (looking at how he writes it is no surprise) that Cassandra becoming Divine was a bitter sweet ending that he and Patrick implemented. Unlike Morrigan in DAO, I personally felt like it was forced. As for Leliana, it is not so bitter for those who romanced her in DAO; there is hope that she changes the marriage ban etc on the Divine. Vivienne does not seem to garner much player attachment but is a lucrative option for some pro-mage people, (she being the first mage Divine).
So the choices for the Divine were not meant to fit that logically into the narrative, or the history of Thedeas. They were put in to get an emotional and political response from the players. Honestly, everyone would have probably picked Giselle--if the Inquisition still exists who in their right mind would give up a warrior like Cass especially if she is the Inquisitor's lover? And who in their right mind would give up the best spymaster in Thedas, Leliana?
I don't support any candidates and no that something is ridiculous and unrealistic isn't laughable claim because as many said leliana ending is exactly it turns complex problem in brutal and dark word and turns it simplistic and rainbow ending that would fit to my little pony.
Second it is said in game that on rare occasions divine can be selected outside the chantry and cassandra and leliana were strongly affiliated with last divine as well with inqusition of course viviene as divine is pretty much stupid still it is nothing in compared to leliana ending.
I don't care if they want pull off emotions card they can do that in at least somewhat realistic way not jumping with straight ridiculousness.
My guess would be similarities to Cassandra ending and maybe Leliana's idea for making the Circles into a college
The term unbelievable was established to be a better word for it, as it is a valid criticism to Leliana's unhardened ending seeing as there's apparently no conflicted mentioned in how she does
See this is what I mean by ideologues, you are arguing semantics (which is not realy an argumenat), and you obviously did not read my entire post.
See this is what I mean by ideologues, you are arguing semantics (which is not realy an argumenat), and you obviously did not read my entire post.
I read your entire post and agree with it mostly, I was specifically replying to the post pointing to those who oppose her Divine Ending
I personally find it hilarious that the people that do tend to be anti-Divine Leliana were all gloating deplorably about Fiona's disastrous move to ally the mages with Tevinter in other threads. "See, this is why mages cannot be trusted with their own freedom!" "It's part of the game's plot, it's CANON, deal with it."
Well...
Mage supporters can have their cake and eat it too with Divine Leliana. Peace between warring factions, imagine that in a world of magic and fantasy. A written epilogue is just as canon as the Fiona incident until the next game invalidates everything. (I know for one my Warden wouldn't be so STUPID as to abandon Ferelden, which has been shown to be incapable of solving its own problems, but what can you do)
Guest_StreetMagic_*
I can understand why people would have a problem with it.
Simply because it seemingly changes the tolerance level of so many people. This is not just a couple.. or dozen people. But probably hundreds of thousands. Or even a million. When up to this point, I didn't really see a lot of signs of that.
I don't have a prob with Leliana myself... but I'd expect more conflict. Whether she was hardened or softened.
I can understand why people would have a problem with it.
Simply because it seemingly changes the tolerance level of so many people. This is not just a couple.. or dozen people. But probably hundreds of thousands. Or even a million. When up to this point, I didn't really see a lot of signs of that.
I don't have a prob with Leliana myself... but I'd expect more conflict. Whether she was hardened or softened.
I think that's the main thing about it when people call it "unrealistic/unbelieve"
a wizard did it...I can understand why people would have a problem with it.
Simply because it seemingly changes the tolerance level of so many people. This is not just a couple.. or dozen people. But probably hundreds of thousands. Or even a million. When up to this point, I didn't really see a lot of signs of that.
I don't have a prob with Leliana myself... but I'd expect more conflict. Whether she was hardened or softened.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
a wizard did it...
That would be interesting at least... if true.
a wizard did it...
well there a batshat idea that lels is a hymmstress like in DND so hahaThat would be interesting at least... if true.
well there a batshat idea that lels is a hymmstress like in DND so haha
Well. If we're in realm of fun theories, there is also the option that softened Leliana calenhaded all her opposition
"Oh, so you want to hava a go against me. Do you see those mages? These are free mages and by free I mean my. Go ahead, tell them that the Circles and Templars must come back. Oh, and those over there are the loyalist mages and by loyalist I mean my. Go ahead, tell them that you want to depose the Divine by force if she doesn't give in to you. And have I introduced you all to my friend the Inquisitor yet?"
theoty accepted lolWell. If we're in realm of fun theories, there is also the option that softened Leliana calenhaded all her opposition
"Oh, so you want to hava a go against me. Do you see those mages? These are free mages and by free I mean my. Go ahead, tell them that the Circles and Templars must come back. Oh, and those over there are the loyalist mages and by loyalist I mean my. Go ahead, tell them that you want to depose the Divine by force if she doesn't give in to you. And have I introduced you all to my friend the Inquisitor yet?"
I don't think we've heard her talk about it enough to have real proof either way.
In my book, everything about her faith points that we do see points to emotion, so in order for me to believe she engages intellectually with it, I'd actually have to see her do it because it essentially establishes a new aspect of her character, one that runs contrary to her known tendencies, to boot.
And personal experience more or less has to be involved in the equation, because there's no purely empirical, logical reason to follow any religion. Better than trying to figure out which bits of the Chant are "pure" or not, in my opinion, is to figure out which bits of it match reality, and Leliana seems to be doing that.
How so? Do you mean which bits work to create a better world -- at least by her definition -- and which don't? That could be part of it, though I think unraveling how the Chant was formed and changed and why should be part of it too. I'd just like to see her cite some verses in support of her "unconditional love" dreams, for example.
Unless Andrastianism is predicated on Andraste being a grasping tyrant who couldn't possibly share anything of her position, I still don't see why this is disrespectful.
You don't have to see your prophet as a grasping tyrant to heavily side-eye someone's claims that the Maker speaks to them, and in ways that violate established beliefs to boot.
So the choices for the Divine were not meant to fit that logically into the narrative, or the history of Thedeas. They were put in to get an emotional and political response from the players.
Sadly, that is probably true. And one reason why I'm not impressed with the overall issue. Like much of the game, it felt shallow and rushed, not given the depth it really needs to make it more engaging and logical.
I'm still exceptionally resentful about that.
Im not really a big fan of any of the options, because I dont think any of them have the balance or temperance for the job.
Exactly. Of course, on one hand it's probably good that everyone has their pros and cons. But it feels so hamfisted, too ... see the quote from Andres Hendrix and my agreement. If the reason why Mother Giselle is not an option was indeed based on yanking the player's chain in an "A-ha! You thought it was so obvious, which is why we're NOT doing it!" kind of way without giving us a real, credible, in-world reason, I'd be seriously annoyed but maybe not too surprised.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Well. If we're in realm of fun theories, there is also the option that softened Leliana calenhaded all her opposition
"Oh, so you want to hava a go against me. Do you see those mages? These are free mages and by free I mean my. Go ahead, tell them that the Circles and Templars must come back. Oh, and those over there are the loyalist mages and by loyalist I mean my. Go ahead, tell them that you want to depose the Divine by force if she doesn't give in to you. And have I introduced you all to my friend the Inquisitor yet?"
Calenhad's not all that different from a "wizard did it". More blood magic, if you believe the Qunari.
i do heheCalenhad's not all that different from a "wizard did it". More blood magic, if you believe the Qunari.
I don't support any candidates and no that something is ridiculous and unrealistic isn't laughable claim because as many said leliana ending is exactly it turns complex problem in brutal and dark word and turns it simplistic and rainbow ending that would fit to my little pony.
Second it is said in game that on rare occasions divine can be selected outside the chantry and cassandra and leliana were strongly affiliated with last divine as well with inqusition of course viviene as divine is pretty much stupid still it is nothing in compared to leliana ending.
I don't care if they want pull off emotions card they can do that in at least somewhat realistic way not jumping with straight ridiculousness.
How the word unrealistic is used as a slogan for only Leliana is laughable. And I see you skipped over my reasoning as to why, and have instead opted to treat me as a Leliana supporter, which I am not. All three choices, as I've already written do not seem to be that great when compared to Giselle. However, each can work to some extent; I will use Leliana as an example because she needs some added consideration. However empirically, there have yet to be any troubles from soft Leliana's reign as Divine. Most of you can't seem to realize that Thedas just went through a blight, a mage templar war, a civil war in Orlais, and the rift crisis. In real "dark and brutal" history, Rome fought 100 years worth of civil wars, by the time Augustus won, the old order was carrion for the birds. Anyone who would have faced him directly were dead, and everyone else was sick of all of the infighting, scorched lands, raped women, dead children etc. So Augusts had the legions, the authoritas and the gravitas and with it he created a new empire out of the skeleton of the SPQR. Leliana seems to be in a similar postion, Augustus did the whole PAX ROMANA thing, and during his reign the only troubles he had, came from his expansion into new territory (mainly Germany), not from civil conflict. If troubles come with Leliana's rule it will be from her trying to expand the faith (which she wants to do), and she has not been Divine long enough for this to be an issue as her chantry is trying to appropriate all of the new changes, and they still need to rebuild some political ties and some infrastructure. Augustus went through the same thing before he tried to expand Rome.
The Divine gets the Inquisitor as a supporter, all the traditional chantry power came from Orlais and a lesser extent from Ferelden, they have both been destabilized which means the chantry is supported by the most powerful military force in the south, the Inquisition, this makes direct dissent against the Divine less possible--but this does not preclude the knee jerk reaction Viv gets (because she is a mage, and the uber-religious are more than happy to throw their lives away in a crusade), and the shadow war Cassandra gets is not a direct assault but more so pertaining to the 'game'. Leliana, later, might have some troubles with the Qun, if she is realy serious about exapning the faith all over Thedas.
Taking into account the aforementioned stability issues, to some extent each of the three can work (but not that well) simply because Thedas needs a Divine, and whoever is chosen gets powerful military support. However the three are still not the best choices narrative wise, they are the best choices politically and emotionally, and they were picked for that by Biowares dev/writers, who probably forgot about Giselle, or maybe ignored her because she did not equate to a so called 'bitter sweet sacrifice' nor does she equal a grand political move (Viv).
As for your badly worded bit about emotions and realism, no Bioware does not have to adhere to what you think is 'realistic', and I was not defending what they did. I was only pointing out what they did, and why 'what they did', all three choices, were not as good as Giselle.
I'd be surprised.. I'd welcome it, but they're not really known for reversing major decisions like this. Can't think of an example at least.
ME3. :|
Retour en haut