It does. But even when she's frowning when she opens the box she still looks a little sinister. Am I supposed to interpret that as her wanting to murder the box?
Yes, yes you should. Take that box, cradle it in the security of your arms and run for the hills. I know I will be. It's a nice box, it doesn't deserve to be scratched up like that.
But in all seriousness, as Z said, facial expressions in DA still kind of suck so I don't put much stock in them.
Z, are you about to tell a story?
Cause I think maybe you should wait on that.
Yes she is crying. Oh some people...
Yes because people simle only when they murder somone
I didn't say she was crying I said she was frowning.
Yes, yes you should. Take that box, cradle it in the security of your arms and run for the hills. I know I will be. It's a nice box, it doesn't deserve to be scratched up like that.
But in all seriousness, as Z said, facial expressions in DA still kind of suck so I don't put much stock in them.
Indeed. So if we're just interpreting her motives from her speech she doesn't come off as a psycho at all (in my opinion anyway).
I didn't say she was crying I said she was frowning.
Indeed. So if we're just interpreting her motives from her speech she doesn't come off as a psycho at all (in my opinion anyway).
ehh... it is just ridiculous i don't think you even know what you are saying... her lips are up...
I didn't say she was crying I said she was frowning.
Indeed. So if we're just interpreting her motives from her speech she doesn't come off as a psycho at all (in my opinion anyway).
In all honesty, it's been a while since I played out that scene so I don't have that great a memory of it. My comment was solely an interpretation of her expression in the picture posted on the previous page and not the scene as a whole.
Columbian necktie?
*narrows eyes* Chelsea smile?
*narrows eyes* Chelsea smile?
*narrows eyes* Chelsea smile?
Also, could you please consider the possibility that not every single person who supports either of the other two is a Pro Templar?
Or the possibility that being "pro-templar" does not mean "mage-hater".
Or the possibility that people can make choices without being in some myopic pro-something-or-other team at all.
At any rate, my primary problem with Divine Leliana stems from the same issue I have with Leliana overall in this game: I don't know where I stand with her, I don't know if I can trust her, I don't know how stable she is. She just seems to be all over the place, and the more personality-swings she piles on top of each other, the worse it gets. That is why "softening" her sadly didn't feel like much of an accomplishment -- it would take years for me to believe that the positive change sticks this time, that she won't crumble right back into her past patters or into outright Stabby McMurderpope behavior the next time fate farts in her general direction.
I understand Leliana's development from pre-Origins to Inquisition, especially since my canon is a dead Warden. Witnessing that sacrifice up close and personal would have been the first shattering blow, Justinia's death and the devastation of her peace efforts the second. Now Leliana fiercely needs to make sure that Justinia's last will -- the creation of the Inquisition -- is done, its purpose carried out, and her death avenged. Oh, and also the small matter of saving the world from destruction and a would-be darkspawn god. All that leaves a frighetening load on already-wounded shoulders. So yes, I get it, but that doesn't mean it's not worrying. Leliana needs to take care of herself and build a solid foundation for herself that doesn't hinge on other people, but sadly therapy hasn't been invented in Thedas yet, and I simply can't believe that the revelation in her personal quest is enough to create that huge and lasting a change in her. It is a good start, and her resurging faith will help a lot, but it is still only a start. I kind of want to make her sit down with Cole for a year or so.
If all this makes it sound like I feel she's a weakling, that's not my intention. To have survived everything she's been through is a sign of her inner strength -- but she was left badly scarred by it all, and really needs to sort herself out, both for her own sake and, if she is handed this much power as the new Divine, for the sake of the whole bloody world.
That aside:
Hardened Leliana as Divine sounds like a murderous monstrosity, the sort of bloody-handed tyrant that player characters are generally tasked with disposing of. At the very least she should be kept on a leash and closely watched (and good luck with that, since she is a master spy), but never be allowed within a lightyear of a position of power.
Softened Leliana as Divine is way too rainbows-and-unicorns-out-of-the-blue. Mind, I can't stand either the "if it's not grimdark, it's infantile" or the "perfect happy ending or my money back" attitudes, but I want something that makes a little more sense in the context of the world. Not to mention that the greater the changes to a setting, the more they should obey the cardinal rule of "show don't tell". You simply can't credibly do that sort of thing in a sentence or two during an epilogue slider ... especially in the light of the fact that Bioware has been known to play fast and loose with epilogues from past games.
Despite all that, I still sort of prefer softened Leliana for the simply reason that I want Cassandra to stay with the Inquisition, and also because the fact that Cassandra is not a politician at all. She is an intelligent woman who can learn, certainly, but lies and manipulation and pussyfooting around despicable people to convince them to see reason instead of drilling it into them will never come naturally to her ... while her rivals and the big players in the "Game" have a lifetime's headstart on her. I think she would be miserable before long. Leliana is technically the better candidate in my book because she combines faith and a desire to good (which she shares with Cassandra) with political connections and expertise. If she was more stable and her softened ending wasn't so over-the-top "perfect", she'd be my choice without hesitation.
But I still kind of want to suggest Mother Giselle and will never understand why she isn't an option and we can't even ask about it.
Having in mind that in next games we will probably have to face an invasion, either from the qunari or the powers across the sea, I think we need to consider the military strenght of each Divine.
In any case, I still think the real power in the post game chantry belongs to the Inquisitor, except for Vivienne, the Divine is more or less a puppet in your hands.
Or the possibility that being "pro-templar" does not mean "mage-hater".
Or the possibility that people can make choices without being in some myopic pro-something-or-other team at all.
At any rate, my primary problem with Divine Leliana stems from the same issue I have with Leliana overall in this game: I don't know where I stand with her, I don't know if I can trust her, I don't know how stable she is. She just seems to be all over the place, and the more personality-swings she piles on top of each other, the worse it gets. That is why "softening" her sadly didn't feel like much of an accomplishment -- it would take years for me to believe that the positive change sticks this time, that she won't crumble right back into her past patters or into outright Stabby McMurderpope behavior the next time fate farts in her general direction.
I understand Leliana's development from pre-Origins to Inquisition, especially since my canon is a dead Warden. Witnessing that sacrifice up close and personal would have been the first shattering blow, Justinia's death and the devastation of her peace efforts the second. Now Leliana fiercely needs to make sure that Justinia's last will -- the creation of the Inquisition -- is done, its purpose carried out, and her death avenged. Oh, and also the small matter of saving the world from destruction and a would-be darkspawn god. All that leaves a frighetening load on already-wounded shoulders. So yes, I get it, but that doesn't mean it's not worrying. Leliana needs to take care of herself and build a solid foundation for herself that doesn't hinge on other people, but sadly therapy hasn't been invented in Thedas yet, and I simply can't believe that the revelation in her personal quest is enough to create that huge and lasting a change in her. It is a good start, and her resurging faith will help a lot, but it is still only a start. I kind of want to make her sit down with Cole for a year or so.
If all this makes it sound like I feel she's a weakling, that's not my intention. To have survived everything she's been through is a sign of her inner strength -- but she was left badly scarred by it all, and really needs to sort herself out, both for her own sake and, if she is handed this much power as the new Divine, for the sake of the whole bloody world.
That aside:
Hardened Leliana as Divine sounds like a murderous monstrosity, the sort of bloody-handed tyrant that player characters are generally tasked with disposing of. At the very least she should be kept on a leash and closely watched (and good luck with that, since she is a master spy), but never be allowed within a lightyear of a position of power.
Softened Leliana as Divine is way too rainbows-and-unicorns-out-of-the-blue. Mind, I can't stand either the "if it's not grimdark, it's infantile" or the "perfect happy ending or my money back" attitudes, but I want something that makes a little more sense in the context of the world. Not to mention that the greater the changes to a setting, the more they should obey the cardinal rule of "show don't tell". You simply can't credibly do that sort of thing in a sentence or two during an epilogue slider ... especially in the light of the fact that Bioware has been known to play fast and loose with epilogues from past games.
Despite all that, I still sort of prefer softened Leliana for the simply reason that I want Cassandra to stay with the Inquisition, and also because the fact that Cassandra is not a politician at all. She is an intelligent woman who can learn, certainly, but lies and manipulation and pussyfooting around despicable people to convince them to see reason instead of drilling it into them will never come naturally to her ... while her rivals and the big players in the "Game" have a lifetime's headstart on her. I think she would be miserable before long. Leliana is technically the better candidate in my book because she combines faith and a desire to good (which she shares with Cassandra) with political connections and expertise. If she was more stable and her softened ending wasn't so over-the-top "perfect", she'd be my choice without hesitation.
But I still kind of want to suggest Mother Giselle and will never understand why she isn't an option and we can't even ask about it.
I don't think she has the support necessary to be Divine. Or perhaps she just doesn't want to be Divine. I think there's a reason she's still a Revered Mother and not a Grand Cleric.
Hardened leliana is my preferred divine. There are always going to be people who don't like her as divine though as she's the most radical candidate.
I think Vivienne is the most radical candidate.
Because her ending is a badly written mess that complete ignores the realities of human character in favor of a feel good ending by suggesting a single person can, in the space of a few years, end two thousand years of ethnic conflict.
Quite frankly, it's an insult to one's intelligence and belongs in a children's show, not a series that claims the title of Dark Fantasy.
I don't really think so. I mean the only way you can get Leliana as Divine is if you make radical choices yourself. So it's not just her turning over ethnic conflict but the Inquisition as well. In some playthroughs Briala might rule, so elves are given more rights. In other playthroughs the mages are given the chance to prove their worth in the fight against Corypheus. It's the Inquisition pushing for change and Leliana's selection as Divine shows you that the world, and the Chantry, is paying attention. The winds of change were already in the air, the Inquisition and Leliana are just capitalizing on that.
On one hand, my general attitude towards Leliana ending is along the lines of "I'd love the outcome if it made sense", thought BSN managed to convinve me that it makes some sense at least (and then there is possibility of interpretation of "miraculously" especially in light of how Morrigan reads this word). Still, it seems too nugs-and-rainbows for me to maintain my suspension of disbelief...
Still, while Leliana's (especially softened one) outcome is quite iffy, I must say that there is one much worse - Vivienne. Not because of outcome, but because she can become Divine at all. Even without explicit backing by Inquisitor. Seriously, I get that they could include this option, but it should be a VERY difficult thing to pull off. And in my first PT she pretty much hijacked the position since I managed to never even talk to her about it, not once in the whole game have I considered her a viable candidate... And I mean it as "I was not aware she was being considered" - I tried to avoid spoilers before first PT...
So if Viv, a mage, can get chosen without explicit support from Inquisition that supports ANOTHER candidate... then maybe I should just accept the nugs-and-rainbows possibility too.
Also, I don't deceive myself - neither choice will have any serious impact on the future of the setting. Those are just too radical changes to be acknowledged.
EDIT:
One additional thought - you want a surprisingly good ending that gives some hope but doesn't have the "They lived happily ever after even though this world explicitly doesn't work like that"? I think a good balance has been struck in case of Dalish Boon ending in DA:O. Dalish get a piece of land for themselves - check. They get it by realistic means (it's granted when their rep is all-time high by a ruler that actually has authority to do something like that) - check. It's not problem-free, though, far from it. Still, the problems, while severe, don't look like "it must/will all go to hell" either - especially if you have Keeper Lanaya... It may end up badly, sure. It doesn't have to though. It's a serious step in some direction and a chance for the Dalish - but how it will ultimately work out can be known in time...
Or not, obviously, since DA:I flushed most of DA:O epilogue slideshow down the drain - but that's not the point here 
Templar fans don't like the outcome obvious reasons, but I got the impression that most people like her ending. At least she won all the "Who is the best divine" polls I have seen so far.
How many times did the mages help defeat the Blights?
And then there is Garahel and, possibly, an elven Warden.
Did any of that radically change things for the long term?
No, people just don't work like that.
If you presented these endings to GRRM and
Andrzej Sapkowski as parte of a work of dark fantasy, they'd probably laugh themselves silly.
It's not that there can't be pro mage endings that result in their freedom. There should be such endings for those who want them.
But they should, at the very least, hint at opposition, conflict and an uncertain future.
No need to go the extra mile and write in that mages are miraculously accepted.
Four times I guess. But I think you're underestimating the impact of the mages' aid during Blights. Sure nothing happened at then, but by the time of Inquisition, people are starting to realise the aid that the mages have provided and the deeds they have done. Changing people's attitudes is not necessarily a single event, it's a series of them which leads people to think that maybe a change is in order. Each Blight is another stepping stone on the path to mage acceptance with the events of Inquisition (possibly) being the culmination.
Finally I think you're missing the fact that Leliana's endings are always a little vague with little phrases like "for now" or "for the moment". There's nothing to say that conflict can't arise in the future.
Edit: I thought I'd just add that it really comes back to your point about 1000yr old ethnic conflicts not being solved in a matter of days, weeks or even months. It's taken hundreds of years for mages to reach the point where they actually have supporters. These didn't come out of nowhere, they're the result of years of mages proving that they can help. Thus this change has been coming for a while now. Remember when Beatrix claimed that change is coming? It's because she saw the path that Thedas was heading for.
Or not, obviously, since DA:I flushed most of DA:O epilogue slideshow down the drain - but that's not the point here
It probably is pertinent to the whole issue, because as I said Bioware has shown they're more than happy to ignore or marginalize epilogues. For future games, it's likely that none of the Divine candidates will matter a whit or get more mention that the occasional throwaway footnote or a half-sentence from a returning character who knew them. It's regrettable that what we do means so little, especially given the scope of this game (as opposed to say Origins which only affected a single backwater country on the edge of the continent) but that's the problem with offering diverging story arcs -- they can't account for everything, or they'd have little money left over to make an actual new game instead of merely the perfect homage to each individual player's world states.
I surprise how many peoples seem to missed some key word on all ending especially Leliana ending.
It's not all out Disney like peoples claimed, I feel like some of them just want it to be total cluster_uck because they don't
agree with Mages freedom.
She meets with their leaders, urging unity. Miraculously her words take root, and - for now - the Chantry remains strong.
Notice "for now"? It's mean a possibility that some revolt might happen in the future (as all other candidate)
And it's not that hard to insert some made-up logic in there. Chantry just recover from disaster, they are not strong and unite.
It's possible that Leliana can easily persuade each factions to play along with her. She was a bard and spymaster after all.
Also, some dialog from Chantry NPC in game suggest that not all of them are agree with Circle solution. Even Mother Giselle
seem to be conflict about it.
For the moment, it appears to be working – mages are enjoying unprecedented acceptance throughout Thedas.
"For a moment" Clearly that means a possibility that acceptance for Mages is not guarantee in long terms.
I can give a reasons why each candidate for The Divine didn't work as well but that irrelevant from what I'm trying to said.
The things is all ending will make-sense or not is entirely subjective. Peoples just fill up their reasons to support their ideals, to
weakened candidate they don't like or to strengthen their choice of Divine.
Retour en haut
