181 réponses à ce sujet

[Dieb]

Yeah, like what the hell?

[Lynroy: Final Edition]

er...

[Unpleasant Implications]

How could a POC possibly be evil? They fight against the institutionalized racism in Thedas and are systemically... I can't ****** do it I'm already disgusted.

I'd call it a coincidence of art. Also, most people in Thedas are white. Those who aren't are usually from somewhere else (Isabela of Rivain, Josephine of Antiva). I wouldn't call it racism... Yet.

[Ryzaki]

 

This would actually be a valid complaint if the vast majority of BW companions to date (all games included) weren't either white or a different species.

 

As it is it just looks like a really bad troll thread.

[Abyss108]

Well the problem with putting a minority character in a negative role, is that they are usually the ONLY character of that minority shown. People talk about how male characters can have all these negative traits, but (for example), a female character can't, because it's sexist.

 

This only happens if said character is the sole representation of that gender/sexuality/race/minority. You can have minorities in negative roles, as long as you also show them in other good roles as well. 

 

You don't have this problem with cis white men, because they are shown in multiple roles, both negative, and positive, all the time. It's a false comparison. You are comparing ONE cis white male character in a game being shown as *insert negative trait*, against EVERY *insert minority* character in the game being shown as *insert negative trait*.

[ThreeF]

oh! It's Sunday!

[Ryzaki]

You never know on the BSN...

 

Since I joined, I have seen:

 

"Request for gender neutral dialogue"

"What's with the naked wimminz on top tier items?"

"Romance options suck for straight men"

Romance options suck for straight men - the remix 2.0"

"Too many females"

"You have to be connected to the internet to sign into Origins"

 

... the list goes on.

 

The lines between "troll", "drama queen" and "stupid" are very blurred...

 

I'm going to go with troll for the sake of my desk not having a skull imprint.

[JadeDragon]

The same reason a white PC has been displayed during trailers. because there the larger population. Mass effect has aliens because there in space.
jade empire has Asian because there in China.
dragon age has white villains with European accents because there in medieval Europe in some form.
Also thedas is above skin color since they actually have non-human races. u named some villains who are elves and dwarves which should be more noted then skin tone.

[fhs33721]

Why are almost all villains of Bioware white males or females you ask?

Go play Jade empire where every villain is asian.

Or go play Mass effect where the major villains are Syntetic black-colored eldritch space abominations with tons minor villains like turians, batarians, asari, sentinent robots and insects (none of which have white skin/scales/chitin/paint)

Or realize that more than half of the villains in Dragon age are actually magical demons/Dragons/Darkspawn while a bunch of your white villains are actually elves or dwarves who live in a decidedly different culture than the humans.

[Aren]

The Archedemon is black, Corypheus is Black,The architect is black, red lyrium Dragon is black,The Mother is black, 1st enemy of DAO is Duncan and he is black.

[Wulfram]

I need to know how Corypheus is Indian, though.

Well, Corypheus is apparently a member of the Tevinter aristocracy, just like Dorian is.  And Dorian is Indian.

 

It's not really clear whether Dorian's ethnicity is unusual among the Tevinter aristocracy, but it seems like they wouldn't be an especially diverse group.

[Fiery Phoenix]

there villians, of course theyre in power. Wouldn't be much of a threat if they werent

its based of medieval europe, so most people are white

a vast majority of people are cis,  and no trigender pyrofox is not a valid identity.

 

also this, to some extent

 

That is FASCINATING.

[King Cousland]

Instead of skills and attributes, can the villain in the next game be represented by the number of privileges they have? 

[Zehealingman]

Because most people in DAs south are white .... ?

[AlexMBrennan]

As for the OP, I can't think of any villain whose sexuality is confirmed

Sorry, but Loghain is clearly straight - just listen to his dialogue leading up to the dark ritual.

[Farangbaa]

This episode I'ma google once my football match is over

[sandalisthemaker]

Well, Corypheus is apparently a member of the Tevinter aristocracy, just like Dorian is.  And Dorian is Indian.

 

It's not really clear whether Dorian's ethnicity is unusual among the Tevinter aristocracy, but it seems like they wouldn't be an especially diverse group.

 

OP is going on about race. Specifically skin color. 

 

"Indian" is a nationality not a race. People in India come in all skin tones from pale to dark. There is no country of "India" in Thedas, so someone can't be Indian in Thedas. 

 

I think the whole 'Dorian is Indian' thing comes from the fact that his VA is Indian, and Gaider pointed that out pre-release. 

 

So Indian is analogous to Tevinter. They are both nationalities and speak nothing of skin color.   Kind of like how both Vivienne and Sebastian are Free Marchers despite having very different skin tones. 

[QueenCrow]

 

This tread is not to stir up trouble as I am genuinely curious. Is positive representation the only welcome kind? Are LGBT & POC Villain's just not done for fear of backlash? 

 

 

 

Ok, I'll give my opinion and the justification for my opinion based on the idea that you're genuinely curious.

 

Most of us know that every nationality, race, gender, creed or color has their share of heroes and villains.  It's a fact of life.  But historically, at least in my country (United States)  minority race, gender, creed, and color has been associated with moral inferiority as part of unfortunate and shameful national law.

 

An example is the Page Act, which gave immigration officers license to classify all Asian women as prostitutes who would only enter the country to spread immorality and disease to god-fearing people - and hard-working laborers who would work for next to nothing building railroads.  I'm sure I don't have to name some historic law to illustrate that homosexuality has been historically associated with corrupted or absent morality.  In my country, we're still struggling through the debates related to giving American citizens the rights that all other citizens have.

 

Regardless of whether having all cis men and women as villains is realistic (in my opinion, it isn't) I'm glad that Bioware stays largely clear of portraying LGBT or people of color as morally bankrupt.  Historically, I believe they've had an unfair share of such portrayals and perhaps sensitivity is called for until we live in a world in which everyone is treated equally.

[Sith Grey Warden]

Well the problem with putting a minority character in a negative role, is that they are usually the ONLY character of that minority shown. People talk about how male characters can have all these negative traits, but (for example), a female character can't, because it's sexist.

This only happens if said character is the sole representation of that gender/sexuality/race/minority. You can have minorities in negative roles, as long as you also show them in other good roles as well.

You don't have this problem with cis white men, because they are shown in multiple roles, both negative, and positive, all the time. It's a false comparison. You are comparing ONE cis white male character in a game being shown as *insert negative trait*, against EVERY *insert minority* character in the game being shown as *insert negative trait*.

This was a valid concern until DAI where 1/4 of companions & advisers are nonwhite. At that point, I think you could have one of the villainous characters also be brown. Yes, Southern Thesosians (except the Chasind) are white, but if they work around that for the protagonists, it's no longer relevant to the other side of the narrative either.

This issue isn't merely about white people being victimized. It's also about giving a fair account of all people and avoiding creating a higher standard that you hold other races to than you hold whites to. Having them all as protagonists means people expect better from them. When those unrealistic expectations are shattered in real life because we're all flawed human beings, that contributes to racism.

The point the OP makes about LGBT, though, is entirely invalid. We have little information about that for most of the villains, but we know both Marjiolaine and Branka were either Lesbian or Bi.

[DanteYoda]

Its probably to keep the Racism to a minimum

 

 

 

If they are white most wont complain..... sad world

 

 

Or it could be because Biowares world is predominantly Caucasian... Then again look at Vivienne she's pretty evil and not white

[Wulfram]

OP is going on about race. Specifically skin color. 

 

"Indian" is a nationality not a race. People in India come in all skin tones from pale to dark. There is no country of "India" in Thedas, so someone can't be Indian in Thedas. 

 

I think the whole 'Dorian is Indian' thing comes from the fact that his VA is Indian, and Gaider pointed that out pre-release. 

 

So Indian is analogous to Tevinter. They are both nationalities and speak nothing of skin color.   Kind of like how both Vivienne and Sebastian are Free Marchers despite having very different skin tones. 

 

Indian is often used as an ethnicity, even if it is quite a diverse one.

 

The "Dorian is Indian" thing comes from developer comments like this one, which is talking about Dorian's appearance and ethnicity, not his voice actor.

 

Tevinter is a nationality that may be quite diverse - it probably is given it's geography and history.  But the Tevinter aristocracy, the Altus class, are a relatively small group that favours marriage within that group.  Such a class is unlikely to reflect the diversity of the empire as a whole.

[Killdren88]

Why must everything in these games be boiled down to either a gender, race or sexuality issues? These threads are tired and old, and serve no purpose. You have no reason to throw these things at Bioware. They are among the more progressive game developers out there and all you people seem to do is demand more, more  and more from them. I'm sure there is some gratitude among the fan base for including characters like Krem and Dorian and such, but it seems  overshadowed by the constant demands of more representation demands from everyone, and everywhere. Bioware Does not deserve the constant Bombardment. Bioware creates good and unique characters, and what they end up being be it sexuality, or race or gender should entirely depend on the overall feel of the character. Not some checklist  that marks down each.

 

There are game devs out there whom are far worse at representation than Bioware. If anyone needs the constant bombardment its them. Not Bioware.

[Lukas Trevelyan]

Geez games are supposed to serve entertainment not social statements. 

[Loghain Mac-Tir]

Geez games are supposed to serve entertainment not social statements. 

 

 

Those were the days....