113 réponses à ce sujet

[Bayonet Hipshot]

So in Inquisition, we see that Hawke, regardless of whatever choices you made for him or her, is against Blood Magic.

 

The thing is I tend to roleplay my Hawke as someone who, even though was not a Blood Mage, has no problems with Blood Magic.

 

For example, my Hawke had no problem with Merrill using Blood Magic to uncover the secrets of Elves of the past.

 

He also usually killed Blood Mages because they did something bad, not because they practices Blood Magic.

 

My Hawke did not become a Blood Mage because the idea of cutting himself up and draining his own blood is not very appealing to him. However, to him, magic is magic and Blood Magic is simply a tool.

 

This Hawke was not portrayed at all in Inquisition and this is a problem because it messes with the continuity, if you will. 

 

So this leaves me with an issue. Do I change my Hawke's choices to be anti-Blood Magic in Dragon Age 2 or do I not ? 

[thats1evildude]

Hawke was always anti-blood magic, to an extent. Listen to the disgust in his/her voice when dealing with Idunna, the blood mage/apostate in The Blooming Rose.

In any case, there was a deleted dialogue which revealed that Orsino's transformation was turned Hawke against blood magic.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Hawke was always anti-blood magic, to an extent. Listen to the disgust in his/her voice when dealing with Idunna, the blood mage/apostate in The Blooming Rose.

In any case, there was a deleted dialogue which revealed that Orsino's transformation was turned Hawke against blood magic.

 

I thought Hawke's issue with Idunna was that she was controlling people and sending them to their deaths. Blood Magic is just a means for doing such a thing.One can use Qunari's Qamek or a concentrated dosage of Confusion Grenade to achieve something somewhat similar. 

 

I did not know about this thing with Orsino. Is there any video of this ? I suppose turning into a Harvester like that is enough to make people go "Eww...gross !"

[thats1evildude]

Hawke's exact words are "What kind of foul magic was that?" When Idunna tells him, his response is an angry "Blood magic, then!"

He's also taken aback learning Malcolm was a blood mage.

[Dr. rotinaj]

Well you have to look at it from an in-setting perspective. In DAI Hawke says something like "I've seen the dangers of blood magic. It's never worth the cost." That statement pretty much summarizes DA2. Every case of blood magic ended up being a disaster. Consider this perspective: Hawke having no problems or strong feelings about blood magic makes very little sense after living in Kirkwall for years.

[Laughing_Man]

That's just the thing, Hawke speaks a few times against evil acts aided by blood-magic, but that means nothing regarding his stance on responsible use.

(i.e. only blood from himself, only as needed, and only when you must.)

 

The fact that BW decided to make some arbitrary decisions regarding blood magic, shouldn't really affect how you play your game.

[leaguer of one]

Dude...Play the end of da2..... That's Hawke's reason.

[Andraste_Reborn]

Weirdly enough, my blood mage Hawke is going to sound more in-character than my 'canon' Hawke who always supported Merrill. My blood mage Hawke was always saying 'blood mages! Those bastards!' in public, then walking around the corner and slitting her wrists so she could make a deal with a demon.

[Dieb]

If you're gonna insist that your Hawke is wired that way, then all power to you - but I will say that Hawke NOT being against blood magic after everything that happened in DA2 would deserve way more "continuity" scolding.

 

If anything, you should complain that DA2 did not give you any reason to think differentiatedly about the matter.

 

(If you really have to.)

[ThreeF]

If you're gonna insist that your Hawke is wired that way, then all power to you - but I will say that Hawke NOT being against blood magic after everything that happened in DA2 would deserve way more "continuity" scolding.

 

If anything, you should complain that DA2 did not give you any reason to think differentiatedly about the matter.

 

(If you really have to.)

 

I don't know about that, I never played  blood mage, but I don't remember did Hawke ever had an option to comment on Orsino outcome? Especially if joined the mages, because if not there is a room for interpretation.

 

As far as DAI Hawke goes my main problem is how self-righteous Hawke comes off when s/he talks about it  in a very "I'm patting myself o the back now" kind of way

[Dieb]

Who gives a funk about Orsino? His mother was killed by a blood mage.

 

Roleplay away, but Hawke is forced to enjoy his mother being alive.

 

I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed myself, but I personally would definitely NOT go "Oh she was brutally murdered and I am totally devastated by the fact... BUT it is important to note exactly at this point right now that blood magic cannot be blamed by a reasonable person, since it is just a tool and tools don't kill people - uneducated insufficiently educated people with psychoti- what? Oh yeah, no Bethany, I really AM devastated, trust me."

 

If anything, this is the kind of life changing moment where as someone who may even have practiced it yourself, you go "no never no more". If not it, then what? But yeah, that's just me. I'm a very family oriented person, also very impulsive, and I like to roleplay my characters accordingly.

 

 

edit: I'd also like to point out I'm not saying people who like their Hawkes to love BM are wrong. I'm just saying it's "uncommon" enough to find it a little hard to blame BioWare for railroading it.

[Laughing_Man]

I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed myself, but I personally would definitely NOT go "Oh she was brutally murdered and I am totally devastated by the fact... BUT it is important to note exactly at this point right now that blood magic cannot be blamed by a reasonable person, since it is just a tool and tools don't kill people - uneducated insufficiently educated people with psychoti- what? Oh yeah, no Bethany, I really AM devastated, trust me."

 

This is acceptable at the heat of the moment, but taking this and making this canon?

 

Why is it so hard to accept that some people are fracked up and will use whatever tools at their disposal to do creepy s***?

 

We don't have magic in our real world. At all. Is our world any less violent creepy and insane? *Hint* No.

 

The serial killer was insane, and Orsino was demonized more in order to appease Templar supporters, rather than as a part of any kind of coherent sub-plot. (I mean, he waited until all the attacking Templars were dead before declaring that "oh noes, we'll never win like this" and decided to go out in a blaze of gore.)

 

The plot is more about the dynamics of human nature in fantasy settings, not the dangers of blood magic.

[Quaddis]

Thing is...Hawke is not your character, so if Bioware decides that he likes kittens more then puppies and your guy is dog person...i actually thought that people got used on this kind of things when this universe entered in constant state of retcon.

[esper]

The thing I really feel is that they forgot that Merrill is a love interest and blood magic was  important to her character.

 

As far as I am concerned if Merrill kept the mirror  (and thus was friended) they should have had Hawke shut up about evil blood magic, because they supported at least one then.

 

Of course the best thing to do was to have Hawke just go on about summoning demons and forcefully possession people. There is plenty to be angry at there.

[ThreeF]

Who gives a funk about Orsino? His mother was killed by a blood mage.

If anything, this is the kind of life changing moment where as someone who may even have practiced it yourself, you go "no never no more". If not it, then what? But yeah, that's just me. I'm a very family oriented person, also very impulsive, and I like to roleplay my characters accordingly.

It was probably meant to be played like this, but from what I've seen I'm not sure if it is that "uncommon" for people to not blame blood magic but the person in their pt. Many romanced Merril and let her keep the mirror.

 

But as I said before it's the line that drives me mad (not what Hawke says, but how), it's convoluted and pompous.

 

(I'm kind of curious, did your Hawke sided with Templars? Because that life changing moment can also very easily lead to "all mages are evil" or did you send Bethany to the circle and thus went with Mages to save her?)

[Loghain Mac-Tir]

But as I said before it's the line that drives me mad (not what Hawke says, but how), it's convoluted and pompous.

 

Do you mean the line "I've seen the dangers of blood magic. It's never worth the cost" ? 

 

Because I thought it was quite poignant. He has lived almost a decade in the world capital of blood magic, so, this guy knew what he was talking about.

 

Ask yourself, from DA:O to DA:I, has blood magic made anyone's life better, I don't think so. And anyone using blood magic was already either ; naive or desperate (Merrill, mages of Kirkwall) or puppy-kicking, baby-eating, soul-drinking evil (oh so many of them). Not one talented, sane and kind mage ever uses or even condones blood magic. (at least to my knowledge) 

 

So, Hawke may come off as douchey (especially the part where he lambastes the only sane warden) , since everything he did was an utter failure. But I ended up agreeing with him on this point.  

 

Point: Every blood mage is a loser. 

Evidence: Every blood mage failed at whatever they wanted to do. 

 

And no, your Warden and Hawke Blood mage are not canon.

[ThreeF]

Do you mean the line "I've seen the dangers of blood magic. It's never worth the cost" ? 

I mean:

 

"All blood mages do (have reasons). Everyone has a story they tell themselves to justify bad decisions and it never matters.  In the end, you are always alone with your actions"

 

It's not just the line itself it's the way it is delivered too. The way there is a little smirk at the ends of "In the end, you are always alone with your actions" makes it pompous. And there is another thing, this whole line can be read as "I hate blood mages because people (in general) do bad things"

 

 

I never played as a blood mage.

[Loghain Mac-Tir]

I mean:

 

"All blood mages do (have reasons). Everyone has a story they tell themselves to justify bad decisions and it never matters.  In the end, you are always alone with your actions"

 

It's not just the line itself it's the way it is delivered too. The way there is a little smirk at the ends of "In the end, you are always alone with your actions" makes it pompous, because it's a self-reference. And there is another thing, this whole line can be read as "I hate blood mages because people (in general) do bad things"

 

 

I never played a blood mage.

 

He did come off as judgmental, but it's only a human reaction, he lost his mother to the most despicable form of blood magery. I've seen people in real life go anti-gun, after losing a loved one to firearm. And that is literally a tool. Blood magic uses people's life/blood as ammunition, you can actually have moral issues with that, without being a 'religious fanatic, templar blind-supporter, nazi, hitler, stalin, commie, nazi, hitler ....... hitler' (I actually have been called that once) 

 

I didn't say 'you' specifically, I meant all those who were upset at BIoware for making 'their' Hawke as an anti blood mage.

 

Anyways, who cares what that failure of a hero thinks, you can take Hawke out of DA 2 and DA:I, the story would've still took place with minor changes.

[KaiserShep]

The thing I really feel is that they forgot that Merrill is a love interest and blood magic was  important to her character.

 

As far as I am concerned if Merrill kept the mirror  (and thus was friended) they should have had Hawke shut up about evil blood magic, because they supported at least one then.

 

Of course the best thing to do was to have Hawke just go on about summoning demons and forcefully possession people. There is plenty to be angry at there.

 

Merrill's a funny case, because even when romanced, you can still do a bit of finger wagging about blood magic, even in the friendship path, UNLESS, of course, you wiped out her clan.

[Raiil]

 

 

 

 

Just quoting because Idris Elba.

 

Anyways, this isn't on my top ten complaints about the game, but I do feel that they should have done specialisation tiles for the Warden/Hawke so Hawke could have had a personalised response. It would have been nice if, as a knight enchanter, Cullen or Vivienne could have said something about how the Warden used something similar, or Hawke could have had a comment on blood magic if they were a blood mage.

[Laughing_Man]

Thing is...Hawke is not your character, so if Bioware decides that he likes kittens more then puppies and your guy is dog person...i actually thought that people got used on this kind of things when this universe entered in constant state of retcon.

 

Bioware is free to do whatever they want, and we are free to call BS on arbitrary retcons.

[Loghain Mac-Tir]

Bioware is free to do whatever they want, and we are free to call BS on arbitrary retcons.

 

It wasn't a case of retcon,it'd have been if someone in DA 2 went 'OMG! Hawke you are a blood mage'. And to my knowledge there wasn't even a single mention of Hawke's specialization in DA 2 .

 

In that case your Hawke was never a blood mage, except in combat, that's a simple gameplay/story segregation .

[Laughing_Man]

It wasn't a case of retcon,it'd have been if someone in DA 2 went 'OMG! Hawke you are a blood mage'. And to my knowledge there wasn't even a single mention of Hawke's specialization in DA 2 .

 

In that case your Hawke was never a blood mage, except in combat, that's a simple gameplay/story segregation .

 

Yes he was. My Hawke simply was very careful about how and when to use it, and never used something obvious and over the top like stabbing

a staff through his own stomach. The hidden dagger is always deadlier than a sword in the open anyway, a small slash at the hand when needed is more than enough, and is easy to hide and explain.

 

In contrast to Merril Blood magic was not a passion for him or something he reveled in at every opportunity, but a tool of last resort - against Templars, for when his Mana reserves were depleted, and for when he needed the extra oomph to survive.

 

P.S. Mage!Hawke is default canon IIRC, yet despite the fact that you perform magic openly, even in front of Templars, no one said a word for years.

So your argument is invalid.

[Loghain Mac-Tir]

Yes he was. *My* Hawke simply was very careful about how and when to use it, and never used something obvious and over the top like stabbing

a staff through his own stomach.

 

In contrast to Merril Blood magic was not a passion for him or something he reveled in at every opportunity, but a tool of last resort - against Templars,

for when his Mana reserves were depleted, and for when he needed the extra oomph to survive.

 

P.S. Mage!Hawke is default canon IIRC, yet despite the fact that you perform magic openly, even in front of Templars, no one said a word for years.

Your argument is invalid.

 

I am sorry to inform you but. their is no such thing as YOUR Hawke. Hawke is an NPC and s/he doesn't have to care about your GAMEPLAY choices, I preferred Hawke in 'The Robes of Unblemished Cleanliness' but when he showed up in the 'The Mantle of Champion', I could not have in my right mind, complain about it.

 

 

The Writers actually said that they didn't have enough time to have special dialogues for a mage Hawke, so, they just wrote around that. But they still are not gonna write another version of Hawke that has no problems with Blood magic, simply because you made him so.

 

Again, you don't have to like it, but it's not a retcon.   

[esper]

@Kaiser

 

I did actually kill Merril's clan. In fact because my Hawke refused to blame Merril or condemm her blood magic. So yeah. It is really out of character for my Hawke.

 

 

That said, I got around it the first time by just not talking to Hawke (and having her be direct/agressive, which was a way her persoanlity was headed in act 3 anyways). Then all I got was a "It's blood magic!" (angry nose wrinkle), which was ambigious enough to mean a lot of things.

 

Still bioware should not have done it when blood magic filled so much in da2 as it did. Not without having a tile for - what was your Hawke opinion on it. They did have a tile for what was the opinion on the chantry bombing after all, so it is not impossible to do.

 

edit, because I still haven't figured out the new qoute system.