113 réponses à ce sujet

[Raiil]

I am sorry to inform you but. their is no such thing as YOUR Hawke. Hawke is an NPC and s/he doesn't have to care about your GAMEPLAY choices, I preferred Hawke in 'The Robes of Unblemished Cleanliness' but when he showed up in the 'The Mantle of Champion', I could not have in my right mind, complain about it.

 

 

The Writers actually said that they didn't have enough time to have special dialogues for a mage Hawke, so, they just wrote around that. But they still are not gonna write another version of Hawke that has no problems with Blood magic, simply because you made him so.

 

Again, you don't have to like it, but it's not a retcon.   

 

 

The Hawke in game has a personality shaped, and dialogue shaped, by the choices made in the previous game.

 

Choosing your specs is a choice.

 

Hawke is not 'just' an NPC and it is extremely disingenious to assert that. My Hawke killed Anders, this is reflected in game. My Hawke is a mage, this is reflected in game. My Hawke romanced Sebastian, this is reflected in game.

 

This is as asanine as saying Cullen is just an NPC and therefore should not reference a mage Warden, or that Leliana is just an NPC and should not reference her relationship, or lack thereof, with the Warden. Leliana in my game is very different than a lot of other people's Leliana's because she was never recruited in my Origins playthrough.

 

They are not 'just' NPCs, they are characters from previous games whose histories are shaped by our choices. 

[Laughing_Man]

I am sorry to inform you but. *snip*

 

Well, you started by telling me what MY Hawke did or didn't do.

 

But honestly I don't care what the "official" position is on Hawke, It's just funny that they went out of their way to insert a frickin character creator in the middle of the game, but could not account for something as important and weighty thematically as this topic.

[Loghain Mac-Tir]

I did actually kill Merril's clan. In fact because my Hawke refused to blame Merril or condemm her blood magic. So yeah. It is really out of character for my Hawke.

 

 

That said, I got around it the first time by just not talking to Hawke (and having her be direct/agressive, which was a way her persoanlity was headed in act 3 anyways). Then all I got was a "It's blood magic!" (angry nose wrinkle), which was ambigious enough to mean a lot of things.

 

Still bioware should not have done it when blood magic filled so much in da2 as it did. Not without having a tile for - what was your Hawke opinion on it. They did have a tile for what was the opinion on the chantry bombing after all, so it is not impossible to do.

 

The thing is DA 2 doesn't leave for much RP as DA:O and DA:I ... Hawke is a very rigid character, sure you choose his personality, but he remains basically the same character ; An Andrastrian (agnostic at worst, but not a true atheist) loves his family, especially his mother, and hates blood magic (seriously, I don't think there is even a single conversation, in which you can simply state that Blood magic is not inherently evil, but simply a means to an end) 

 

Your Hawke being a blood mage is never mentioned even once, Fenris who hates mages with a passion, never mentions that you are not only a mage but a blood mage. Seriously !

 

So, simply put Blood Magic was just a useful skill tree, and had nothing to do with the Story .

 

P.S There are more than 1 reason to slaughter Merrill's clan.. just saying.

[Laughing_Man]

Your Hawke being a blood mage is never mentioned even once, Fenris who hates mages with a passion, never mentions that you are not only a mage but a blood mage. Seriously !

 

And as I said, the simplest explanation for this is that Hawke only made use of blood magic as last resort, and never overtly.

His companions never noticed the difference between a sprinkle of Blood-Magic and a generic antropy hex.

[esper]

Da2 leaves plenty of room of roleplaying. Your Hawke is never forced to follow the dominant attitude, which is just that an attitude.

 

And  you can support (or at least not condemm) Merrill's choices the whole way through so that means the it is not canon in da2 that Hawke hates blood magic.

 

And it does not matter that there a more than one reason to slaugther Merrill's clan. That was my Hawke's reason. That she refused to condem her best friends blood magic.

 

My Hawke had stood 100 percent behind Merrill the whole way.

[Loghain Mac-Tir]

Well, you started by telling me what MY Hawke did or didn't do.

 

But honestly I don't care what the "official" position is on Hawke, It's just funny that they went out of their way to insert a frickin character creator in the middle of the game, but could not account for something as important and weighty thematically as this topic.

 

You also missed the part, where I said Hawke is an NPC and not yours or mine. 

 

And as I said, the simplest explanation for this is that Hawke only made use of blood magic as last resort, and never overtly.

His companions never noticed the difference between a sprinkle of Blood-Magic and a generic antropy hex.

 

Sorry, but that's just fanon. You mean to tell me no one in Hawke's group could've tell that their leader is a blood mage, his group included ;

 

Aveline, wife of a Templar

Fenris, who had seen actual blood magic

Merrill, who actually was a blood magic.

 

If it was that easy, then why does anyone ever caught for using Blood magic.

 

Look, I get it, you spent x amount of hours on your character, but ultimately it barely mattered, well that's what happens when RPG protagonists return as an NPC, (imagine what'd happened if Warden had returned *shudders*) But tbh, there wasn't much of true RP'ing with DA 2 itsellf, I wanted to play as a psychopathic Hawke, in a save file of a crazy Warden, but my main character who was indiscriminately cruel and didn't had room for stupid emotions like empathy, was still upset that his mommy died.

 

So, I may not agree with you, but I see where you are coming from. 

[rapscallioness]

They were very keen on telling us just how much Hawke was not our character anymore---actually any returning PC. And that they would do whatever they wanted with the character.

 

I adore Hawke, but I never wanted to see either Hawke, nor the Warden return as some little npc. I did not want that, at all. I detest the idea of past PC's returning as npc's. Either PC, or nothing!

 

But noooo. So, I thought I'd see if it was worth it. It was not. There was no need whatsoever for Hawke to be in this game. There was no need for Stroud, or any of them. You could of just gotten a note from some Warden--maybe even a new character--about Clarelle etc. And started the investigation.

 

There was no need for Hawke. Unless they were just trying to angle in a choice about who to kill. Hawke or Stroud. Hawke or Alisitair. Hawke or Loghain. Either way Hawke's head is on the block.

 

So, no. Hawke will speak against blood magic regardless of what your PC Hawke thought on the matter. Because Hawke is now a NPC.

 

*just try to ignore it, OP. when Hawke starts blathering on like that. This Hawke is an imposter anyway. I think maybe like Fiona. I think some demon took Hawke's form and.....so on and so forth....

[Loghain Mac-Tir]

Da2 leaves plenty of room of roleplaying. Your Hawke is never forced to follow the dominant attitude, which is just that an attitude.

 

And  you can support (or at least not condemm) Merrill's choices the whole way through so that means the it is not canon in da2 that Hawke hates blood magic.

 

And it does not matter that there a more than one reason to slaugther Merrill's clan. That was my Hawke's reason. That she refused to condem her best friends blood magic.

 

My Hawke had stood 100 percent behind Merrill the whole way.

 

You must be an experienced RP, because I felt like I was playing a pre-defined character. 

 

There was not one scenario where you can admit that you don't see anything wrong with Blood Magic (I maybe wrong, if you can provide a quote, I'll concede my point) to any of the main character like Orsino or Meredith (though, why would anyone) or even that leader of crazy cabal of blood mages, Grace, I think, when you first encounter her in Act I, she asks a Mage Hawke why they are attacking their 'own kind' and I as far as I remember every option leads to you stating that Blood mages aren't  your kind.  

[katokires]

Because all people are stupid like Batman right?

"Oh my mommy was killed by guns then I will never use guns"
Or something like that, I don't even know Batman, DC sux

Anyway... if someone kills a family member with a knife "no more knives, ever, knives are evil"
If someone is killed by a car, never driving again

If it is an alergic reaction to a medicine, never taking any meds again

Yeah completely mature and understandable

 

Bioware is wrong, but Bioware does EVERYTHING wrong, so there is no point in arguing anything, Bioware = Wrong

Dude made it pretty clear early that if there are cameos they are going to screw it so you better don't ask them to bring anyone back from previous games because they are too incompetent to make something reasonable, and since dude is dev on Bioware I'm gonna take his advice

 

Making a topic about Bioware doing something wrong it is like stating that there is a sun, or that we need oxygen or that blood runs in our veins. Just make a topic like "Bioware wrote lines for Hawke", it is implied all lines are ridiculous and shouldn't be in the game. DAI shouldn't exist the whole game is a big mistake, if there is Hawke, Hawke is a mistake there. Everything is wrong and sick and retarded. There are no redeeming qualities, just flaws on top of flaws, it is broken, it causes nauseating pain just to look at the screen.

[Loghain Mac-Tir]

"Moronic rant that has nothing to do with the actual topic" 

 

Honestly dude, why are you even at this forum?

[Xilizhra]

Given that my Hawke romanced Merrill, I'm pretty sure she knows about the differences between different kinds of blood magic. I can accept that one's specialization might not have counted lorewise, but I cannot accept that friendmancing Merrill would still lead to hating blood magic in all forms. I don't even know why it was phrased that way, because the blood magic being used in Here Lies the Abyss was plenty harmful anyway regardless of its source.

[esper]

You were not forced to condemm it either. which is enough btw to say that Hawke does not hate blood magic.

 

In act one when Merril uses blood magic for the first time Hawke can say that Merrill's blood magic took the barrier down, without any condemnation of the metod used at all. 

 

And in the Deep Roads you can specifically ask Merrill to weaken the hunger wraith thing because she is a blood mage, which means that Hawke is basically asking another to use blood magic. - That is the practise of someone with an "It's a tool attitude'"

 

Edit And you can ask the Orlesian necromancer (can't remember his name) to use what is basically a phyllactrary and thus blood magic to track Leandra.

[Loghain Mac-Tir]

You were not forced to condemm it either. which is enough btw to say that Hawke does not hate blood magic.

 

In act one when Merril uses blood magic for the first time Hawke can say that Merrill's blood magic took the barrier down, without any condemnation of the metod used at all. 

 

And in the Deep Roads you can specifically ask Merrill to weaken the hunger wraith thing because she is a blood mage, which means that Hawke is basically asking another to use blood magic. - That is the practise of someone with an "It's a tool attitude'"

 

Well, maybe they did shoehorn Hawke a bit in DA:I . But I think it is a lot to ask to make a separate Hawke just for those who picked the BM spec. the best they could've done with him was NOT force him in to a corner. They added a special tile for supporting Anders' action MAYBE they could've added a tile "Hawke wasn't vehemently opposed to Blood magic", because if you can support a terrorist attack, then you can sure as hell support Blood magic.

 

But you could also argue, that in his early years Hawke  was a supporter of /didn't mind  blood magic, but after seeing epic fails of Merrill, Quentin and Orsino, Hawke realized that Blood magic 'wasn't worth the cost'. 

[esper]

Or maybe they should just never had included such a meanigless cameo and then forgotten that a huge part of da2 was blood magic, a specalization and a LI.

 

They could have Hawke be mad at so many things in that scene in daI. That line simply have no reason to be there.

[Lord Stark]

Not a conundrum, Orsino is enough evidence for Hawke imo.  The guy was the epitome of good intentions and it still got him no where.

[Raiil]

But I think it is a lot to ask to make a separate Hawke just for those who picked the BM spec.

 

Not really. One extra line: 'Blood magic has its uses, but this?' will allow a blood mage Hawke to acknowledge that blood magic can be used while still acknowledging that this is out of line.

[Laughing_Man]

...So, I may not agree with you, but I see where you are coming from. 

 

Bottom line: I don't like it, and I reserve the right to call it a BS retcon, but after ME3's ending I became adept at disregarding canon and substituting my own head-canon, so yeah... f*** that.

[BSpud]

Honestly dude, why are you even at this forum?

 

 

To make us laugh.

[Loghain Mac-Tir]

Not really. One extra line: 'Blood magic has its uses, but this?' will allow a blood mage Hawke to acknowledge that blood magic can be used while still acknowledging that this is out of line.

 

The entirety of the quest HLtA, Hawke is chewing out the Warden Companion for blood magery, they'd have to rewrite the entire just to account for a specialization, when all the other spec. had absolutely no input in the game.

 

Bottom line: I don't like it, and I reserve the right to call it a BS retcon, but after ME3's ending I became adept at disregarding canon and substituting my own head-canon, so yeah... f*** that.

 

 

And you are free to do so, but I have to disagree, ME 3 was a whole 'nother level of blunder.

 

To make us laugh.

 

Posts like that used to be funny,after the first or second time, but after basically reading the same trollish statements for the 1500th time, it has become an annoyance.

[Xilizhra]

Well, maybe they did shoehorn Hawke a bit in DA:I . But I think it is a lot to ask to make a separate Hawke just for those who picked the BM spec. the best they could've done with him was NOT force him in to a corner. They added a special tile for supporting Anders' action MAYBE they could've added a tile "Hawke wasn't vehemently opposed to Blood magic", because if you can support a terrorist attack, then you can sure as hell support Blood magic.

 

But you could also argue, that in his early years Hawke  was a supporter of /didn't mind  blood magic, but after seeing epic fails of Merrill, Quentin and Orsino, Hawke realized that Blood magic 'wasn't worth the cost'. 

Merrill didn't fail. It was Marethari who failed.

 

 

The entirety of the quest HLtA, Hawke is chewing out the Warden Companion for blood magery, they'd have to rewrite the entire just to account for a specialization, when all the other spec. had absolutely no input in the game.

There are only three or so lines. What Hawke should have been criticizing is the Wardens immediately listening to the Tevinter mage who keeps telling them to kill people.

[Loghain Mac-Tir]

Merrill didn't fail. It was Marethari who failed.

 

 

There are only three or so lines. What Hawke should have been criticizing is the Wardens immediately listening to the Tevinter mage who keeps telling them to kill people.

 

You are right, Merrill didn't fail, she epically failed, but Marethari wasn't a genius either, but she got what she wanted, she saved Merill from the Demonic possession. Merrill on the other hand, had to kill her surrogate mother, possibly her entire clan, and got nothing out of it. That's as big a failure as you can get.

 

Hawke being a blood mage would've to change all his interactions with Varric/Inquisitior/The Warden Companion, unless he was a secret blood mage, in which case I agree with you. 

[Xilizhra]

You are right, Merrill didn't fail, she epically failed, but Marethari wasn't a genius either, but she got what she wanted, she saved Merill from the Demonic possession. Merrill on the other hand, had to kill her surrogate mother, possibly her entire clan, and got nothing out of it. That's as big a failure as you can get.

All of it was the fault of Marethari's treachery.

[Raiil]

All of it was the fault of Marethari's treachery.

 

 

Uh... stupidity yes, treachery no.

[DialupToaster]

About the Orsino insanity moment... does no one else consider the fact that if Templars are where your Hawke and Orsino were then 90% of the circle has already been annulled? Orsino's Bsod is completely legitimate, his actions after? Debatable.

[Fireheart]

I'd like to point out that your Hawke is not the same Hawke in DAI. Bioware owns Hawke now, and Bioware's Hawke hates and is against Blood Magic. Deal with it. Plus, there have been 3-4 years between da2 and dai, something could've happened in that time that turned Hawke away from the craft.