15 réponses à ce sujet

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

Weapon is an easy one:

 

Seer staff:
Crit chance
Crit chance
Crit damage
---

+Hilted grip:

Crit chance
Crit damage

---

+Dragon staff blade
Crit chance 

Crit damage
 

But as for armor:
 

Prowler:
Cunning
Cunning
Con

---

Prowler hands for + cunning

 

I tried looking around. Heavy armor T3's only has defense slots. Mage armor does not give any real offensive power either. Since dex and cunning gives crit chance + crit damage these should be the best. However dex does not give attack% for mages. So for a mage - Cunning is the best for min/max of the two since it also gives ranged defense% in addition to the crit chance while dex has a "lost" stat. 

I've been looking on the wiki like... a lot... it seems there are no good DPS options for mages when it comes to armor. The only decent one seems to be Prowler armor. Am I wrong? Anyone have any ideas for something else?
 

[PapaCharlie9]

Do you have something against Willpower? Check out armors and upgrades with cloth in Utility slots. If you pre-ordered and have the dragon armors, you can have something like 20 Utility cloth slots. With just T2 cloths you can get 30 Willpower for +15% attack. True, it's not the same as 20 leathers or 20 metals in offense, but it's not nothing.

 

Same goes for Magic bearing cloths as well.

[Bigdawg13]

Dex gives mages crit damage and it's a 1:1 ratio.  Cunning is really crappy for everyone as it only gives a 2:1.  It takes 2 cunning to give 1% crit chance.  But 2 dexterity gives 2% dex.

 

So, focus on crit chance (leather offense slots) when you can.  If it's leather utility then stack dexterity.  Pretty much want rogue armor.  With seer staff and the items you mentioned, you can easily have a crit chance of 50% from the staff alone.  I'd recommend dexterity necklace, crit damage rings (2 of them), and whatever belt you want.  I suppose you could take a belt of potions so you could carry more lyrium potions.

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

Thanks for the replies. So I undersold dex then? Yet +15% attack wont increase the base damage high enough to be better than crit damage?

 

[Exalus]

Crit and attack are almost always going to be better than crit damage past a certain point. 

10.5% attack gives vastly more true damage output than 21% critical damage. 

 

-Masterwork Archon Staff Blade gives 19.25% attack which will be better than crit chance/attack.

-Masterwork Battlemage Staff Grip‍ also gives 19.25% attack which is better than crit chance/attack.

-Seer staff/archmage staff is the best offensive staff giving 2 crit slots and 1 attack slot or 2 attack slots and 1 crit slot but with a slightly lower base damage

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

Crit and attack are almost always going to be better than crit damage past a certain point. 

So if you already have high crit chance and decent crit damage from weapon and rings/neck - then going +% attack and stacking willpower like Papa said is better?

[Exalus]

So if you already have high crit chance and decent crit damage from weapon and rings/neck - then going +% attack and stacking willpower like Papa said is better?

Even with no crit/crit damage, attack% is pretty much always going to better. 

 

The best use for crit is to proc skills but mages dont really have any outside flashpoint. Rogues thrive on crit because looked like it hurt restores stamina on crit and artificers get CD reduction on crit. 

[PapaCharlie9]

Even with no crit/crit damage, attack% is pretty much always going to better. 

 

The best use for crit is to proc skills but mages dont really have any outside flashpoint. Rogues thrive on crit because looked like it hurt restores stamina on crit and artificers get CD reduction on crit. 

But he's saying he has high crit chance, so the question is valid. I haven't run sims to see where the tip-over point is, but I imagine it is pretty low in favor of crit. It's not that hard to get crit over 50%, either. While you can't go wrong going for Attack% if you have no other choice, it's not immediately clear to me when crit damage starts to win.

 

 

GhoXen's guide does suggest that buffing crit chance is more valuable than willpower or magic, but just so. Notice that all the damage buffs come in last and that these are all T3 levels.

 

http://forum.bioware...e#entry18767129

 

Crafting Priority:

3% Flanking Dmg > 1.75% Attack > 3% Armor Pen > 1.75% Crit Chance = 1.75 Dexterity (rogue) >1.75 Willpower > 1.75 Magic (mage) = 1.75Strength (warrior) > > 1.75 Cunning > 3% Crit Dmg > 3% Barrier Dmg > 3% Guard Dmg

[Bigdawg13]

Crit and attack are almost always going to be better than crit damage past a certain point. 

10.5% attack gives vastly more true damage output than 21% critical damage. 

 

-Masterwork Archon Staff Blade gives 19.25% attack which will be better than crit chance/attack.

-Masterwork Battlemage Staff Grip‍ also gives 19.25% attack which is better than crit chance/attack.

-Seer staff/archmage staff is the best offensive staff giving 2 crit slots and 1 attack slot or 2 attack slots and 1 crit slot but with a slightly lower base damage

 

"After 50% crit chance, dexterity becomes more efficient than any other base attribute to stack, which is why you'll always use superior prowler amor on pretty much every class." - Actionhero112

http://forum.bioware.../#entry18708538

 

I'll let you and actionhero argue it out, but he's my goto on the forums.  

 

Consider the damage formula: http://forum.bioware...-and-mechanics/

[WeaponDmg * (1 + CritDmg%) * (1 + FlankDmg%) * (1 + BarrierDmg%) * (1 + GuardDmg%) - Armor *(1 - ArmorPen%)] * (1 + Attk%) * AbilityMultiplier%

 

CritDmg%, FlankDmg%, BarrierDmg%, GuardDmg% and AbilityMultiplier% only apply when applicable.

 

Given a 50% crit rating, the compariosn of critical damage to attk% is equal  This is because crit chance is 50% and both wisdom and magic only increase attack by 0.5%.

 

So, if you have 51% crit chance or higher, it is better to stack dexterity.  

[PapaCharlie9]

"After 50% crit chance, dexterity becomes more efficient than any other base attribute to stack, which is why you'll always use superior prowler amor on pretty much every class." - Actionhero112

http://forum.bioware.../#entry18708538

 

I'll let you and actionhero argue it out, but he's my goto on the forums.  

 

Consider the damage formula: http://forum.bioware...-and-mechanics/

[WeaponDmg * (1 + CritDmg%) * (1 + FlankDmg%) * (1 + BarrierDmg%) * (1 + GuardDmg%) - Armor *(1 - ArmorPen%)] * (1 + Attk%) * AbilityMultiplier%

 

CritDmg%, FlankDmg%, BarrierDmg%, GuardDmg% and AbilityMultiplier% only apply when applicable.

 

Given a 50% crit rating, the compariosn of critical damage to attk% is equal  This is because crit chance is 50% and both wisdom and magic only increase attack by 0.5%.

 

So, if you have 51% crit chance or higher, it is better to stack dexterity.  

That makes sense. Also interesting that Superior Prowler Armor beats all the heavies, in terms of Leather Utility slots. It has 9 and closest heavies come is 8. Thanks!

[Bigdawg13]

It's unfortunate in some ways, because it's best-in-slot for every single character.

[Zeratulr]

"After 50% crit chance, dexterity becomes more efficient than any other base attribute to stack, which is why you'll always use superior prowler amor on pretty much every class." - Actionhero112

http://forum.bioware.../#entry18708538

 

I'll let you and actionhero argue it out, but he's my goto on the forums.  

 

Consider the damage formula: http://forum.bioware...-and-mechanics/

[WeaponDmg * (1 + CritDmg%) * (1 + FlankDmg%) * (1 + BarrierDmg%) * (1 + GuardDmg%) - Armor *(1 - ArmorPen%)] * (1 + Attk%) * AbilityMultiplier%

 

CritDmg%, FlankDmg%, BarrierDmg%, GuardDmg% and AbilityMultiplier% only apply when applicable.

 

Given a 50% crit rating, the compariosn of critical damage to attk% is equal  This is because crit chance is 50% and both wisdom and magic only increase attack by 0.5%.

 

So, if you have 51% crit chance or higher, it is better to stack dexterity.  

I may be mistaken but I think this formula is wrong and they said so in that thread. It seems that this formula applies critical damage before the armor (which may be the case with magic attacks but then it lacks magic resistance) and attack after, which would make attack almost useless in virtually every situation.

 

The formula I've been using from this topic: http://forum.bioware...mbat-mechanics/

 

final_damage = (base_damage * rand(0.95 to 1.05) - armor * (1 - armor_penetration))
* (ability_multiplier)
* (1 + critical_damage_bonus + flanking_bonus)
* (1 + attack_bonus + damage_multiplier + type_bonus)
* (1 - magic_resistance)

 

A general note on what is best for stacking (please disregard if it sounds stupid). All stats have diminishing returns: if you have 10% attack item which provides +10 attack doubles that part of the damage. But if you already have 60% attack +10 item only improves it by 17%. That means that no matter how low your critical chance is it is possible to have such a high attack that it will be more beneficial to stack critical damage (although chance would likely be better anyway) and vice versa. It also means that it's possible to determine a mathematical optimum for attack to crit damage to crit chance ratio based on crafting bonuses ratio of 1:2:1 respectively. If I disregard the flanking bonus (mages rarely flank anyway but for rogues it's a huge deal) and damage multiplier (for simplicity let's say that the mage in question doesn't have abilities like Chaotic focus). At 50% critical chance there should be 100% critical damage and 50% attack. If chance and damage are exactly that but attack is lower, it will be better to increase attack and vice versa. If the critical chance is different the equation will be different... I think.

The following thread is very short but it has a very interesting post on this subject written by OrionAnderson: http://forum.bioware...rity-abilities/

 

 

 

But as for armor:

 

Prowler:
Cunning
Cunning
Con

---

Prowler hands for + cunning

 

I tried looking around. Heavy armor T3's only has defense slots. Mage armor does not give any real offensive power either. Since dex and cunning gives crit chance + crit damage these should be the best. However dex does not give attack% for mages. So for a mage - Cunning is the best for min/max of the two since it also gives ranged defense% in addition to the crit chance while dex has a "lost" stat. 

I've been looking on the wiki like... a lot... it seems there are no good DPS options for mages when it comes to armor. The only decent one seems to be Prowler armor. Am I wrong? Anyone have any ideas for something else?
 

I'm sorry if this is a stupid question but what is this prowler armor for mages? All the prowler armors I've found in schematics list in wiki are for rogues...

[PapaCharlie9]

I may be mistaken but I think this formula is wrong and they said so in that thread. It seems that this formula applies critical damage before the armor (which may be the case with magic attacks but then it lacks magic resistance) and attack after, which would make attack almost useless in virtually every situation.

 

The formula I've been using from this topic: http://forum.bioware...mbat-mechanics/

 

final_damage = (base_damage * rand(0.95 to 1.05) - armor * (1 - armor_penetration))
* (ability_multiplier)
* (1 + critical_damage_bonus + flanking_bonus)
* (1 + attack_bonus + damage_multiplier + type_bonus)
* (1 - magic_resistance)

 

A general note on what is best for stacking (please disregard if it sounds stupid). All stats have diminishing returns: if you have 10% attack item which provides +10 attack doubles that part of the damage. But if you already have 60% attack +10 item only improves it by 17%. That means that no matter how low your critical chance is it is possible to have such a high attack that it will be more beneficial to stack critical damage (although chance would likely be better anyway) and vice versa. It also means that it's possible to determine a mathematical optimum for attack to crit damage to crit chance ratio based on crafting bonuses ratio of 1:2:1 respectively. If I disregard the flanking bonus (mages rarely flank anyway but for rogues it's a huge deal) and damage multiplier (for simplicity let's say that the mage in question doesn't have abilities like Chaotic focus). At 50% critical chance there should be 100% critical damage and 50% attack. If chance and damage are exactly that but attack is lower, it will be better to increase attack and vice versa. If the critical chance is different the equation will be different... I think.

The following thread is very short but it has a very interesting post on this subject written by OrionAnderson: http://forum.bioware...rity-abilities/

 

I noticed that the formula was old, but also realized it doesn't matter with respect to comparing attack% contributed by attributes versus contribution of crit/crit.

 

First, remember the commutative law from math class? (a) * b = b * (a). It doesn't matter what order the factors are multiplied. Convince yourself by computing (1.15) * (1.20) and compare to (1.20) * (1.15).

 

Second, in the new formula, critical_damage_bonus = (critical chance) * (critical damage bonus), and attack_bonus is the sum of all the things that contribute to Attack%, including attributes. So zeroing out everything else that is irrelevant to this thread, we end up with:

 

(base_damage - armor * (1 - AP)) * (1 + critical_damage_bonus) * (1 + attack_bonus)

 

Ignoring the incorrect bracketing of the old formula, they end up being the same.

 

 

I'm sorry if this is a stupid question but what is this prowler armor for mages? All the prowler armors I've found in schematics list in wiki are for rogues...

 

 

You can remove the class restriction by using, respectively, Dales Loden Wool in light armor, Snofleur Skin in medium armor, and Silverite in heavy armor. You want your mage Herald to roam around in Legion of the Dead Armor? Use Silverite.

[Zeratulr]

You can remove the class restriction by using, respectively, Dales Loden Wool in light armor, Snofleur Skin in medium armor, and Silverite in heavy armor. You want your mage Herald to roam around in Legion of the Dead Armor? Use Silverite.

Cool, thank you!

 

PS. I remember the commutative law but a*b-c does not equal (a-c)*b.

[cap and gown]

 

You can remove the class restriction by using, respectively, Dales Loden Wool in light armor, Snofleur Skin in medium armor, and Silverite in heavy armor. You want your mage Herald to roam around in Legion of the Dead Armor? Use Silverite.

 A mage can never use Legion of the Dead armor because dwarves cannot be mages and only dwarves can equip LotD armor.

[PapaCharlie9]

 A mage can never use Legion of the Dead armor because dwarves cannot be mages and only dwarves can equip LotD armor.

Right, sorry. Bad example!