18 réponses à ce sujet

[Talan]

I've completed the game on nightmare as both as a duel wield Rogue and a Mage with no real trouble. However, as a 2H Templar I feel incredibly fragile. The battle of Haven was managed easy enough through careful control of the adds, but since then archers seem to 2 shot be and several boss mobs (e.g. Hand of Koth) are killing me in a single blow through full guard. Whilst obviously not in end game gear yet, my armour is the best that I can currently craft.

 

Skills are:

Two Handed - Block & Slash, Flow of Battle, Mighty Blow, Pommel Strike

Vanguard - Warcry, Charging Bull, Cutting Words

Battle Master - Grappling Chain, Crippling Blows, Coup de Grace

Templar - Spell Purge, Champions of the Just

 

I plan to respect the Battle Master abilities to enable Templar combos to be built up, but just feel like pointless tissue paper against anything that so much as looks in my direction. I am careful not to over agro with War Cry, but problem is surviving more than 2 blows regardless of maximum guard. This feels anything but heroic.

 

I do block blows, but obviously not everyone.

 

Maybe I'm just bad at this play-style, but one-shot kills through maximum guard (I've tested this a few times) just feels wrong. Do you have any advice for survivable but fun builds, or tactics I may be missing, for mid-level 2H Templars?

[wepeel_]

Somewhat problematically, the 2H warrior is neither very adept at dealing damage or soaking it up. This can be alleviated by going reaver and getting access to their nearly unending chain of fast attacks using 2H weapon damage; or champion whose abilities will make you hard to kill even if you don't have a shield.

 

As 2H templar though you won't excel at either, but you do get access to a very effective combo in wrath of heaven + spell purge. This will trigger a cross-class combo on all eligible stunnable enemies - maybe that's what you meant in your post. Other than that, even shieldless you can still benefit from the defensive abilities from the vanguard and s&s trees and combine it with a guard on hit mastercraft to do relatively well as a tank; as well as do good crowd control with wrath of heaven, charging bull, pommel strike etc. But you'll never be someone who dishes out serious damage compared to rogues and reavers, especially not on important enemies who all tend to be immune to stun.

[Talan]

Thanks Weepel. I appreciate that Templar is a bit of a compromise. I will ponder whether S&S may be more effective - less damage but perhaps more survivability.

[Digger1967]

Depends on style I suppose, for a 2 hander I prefer to focus on mobility and stuff that generates guard.  Bull rush gets me into combat and generally knocks a good sized group of opponents down, then warcry while they are busy getting back to their feet.  Since I don't have the big shield in front of me I like to use combat roll from battlemaster to get out from in front of my enemies and hit them from the flank instead. Grappling chain is a great thing to have for mages and archers .

 

Mighty Blow is usually the only two handed skill i take for my two hander at low levels, and it is nice just because it incapacitates the enemy for a short period of time.  I generally don't start filling out the rest of the 2 handed tree until later.  I've found the blocking/parrying skills to really only be useful for me when I'm fighting a bigger, slower moving enemy that telegraphs it's punch like the big 2 handed weapon bosses and stuff like dragons.  Otherwise I generally don't react in time for them to do me any good, and even then it's sort of hit and miss.

[blaidfiste]

See if this works for you.  I disagree with his removing spell purge since it's a templar's core ability.  Other than that, you'll be more of a support/controller with Blackwall as tank.

 

[Farangbaa]

If I were to play a 2 hander (has yet to happen), I'd focus on avoiding getting aggro. I'm doing something similar with my S&S Templar now, who's only guard gaining skill is shield wall (2 hander can substitute this with Block and Slash).

Make sure your tank draws all the aggro. Start battles with grappling chain. This, so far, seems to not trigger any aggro in surrounding enemies if done from far enough (Not entirely sure on this), and have your tank draw aggro. To do this, set their behaviour to 'follow player character', so they will immediatly attack the same target as you do. Set Challenge and War Cry to preferred. The AI will 99,9 percent of the time use the correct skill (Challenge on single enemy, War Cry on groups of enemies, if both skills are available). Set all other party members to 'defend tank', so they will start attacking after the tank has drawn aggro.

And then just start killing. It works very well for me, so far, and I don't even have specializations unlocked yet. Once I get Templar it will probably end up a slaughterfest.

[McPartyson]

I can main tank as a 2H no problem. Just use warcry+upgrade (upgrade is very important to give you 10 secs of physical attack invulnerability, 200% armor). Charging Bull is a staple. Focus on Mighty Blow and Pommel Strike as primary attacks. As you gain gear, try to get your team to have somewhat decent crit chance to make the Flow of Battle passive just fantastic (it works off team crit, not just personal crit). It should give all your skills very low cooldowns so you can have War Cry up quite frequently!

 

-Ofcourse you could go full templar with the Wrath of Heaven and Spell Purge combo into every group. So, warcry or charging bull + wrath +purge. That would just blow everything up pretty quick...I personally found it boring doing so, but to each his own.

 

I think 2H warrior is a beast and I play 1 party member short, i don't use barrier at all, i restrict my crafting and I have a mod that reduces xp gain, so i'm under-leveled compared to the original game.

 

Spec your mage in the party with Winter's Grasp and Ice Mine upgraded. Set those to prefered and watch as you combo enemies with mighty blow while other enemies remain frozen.

 

*If you notice your dieing way more than normal, check to make sure that your party members are using their skills because I have been getting a bug that causes my team to stop using their skills...meaning, they only auto-attack. When this happens, it could mean a wipe if you're not aware of the bug happening. Restarting the game seems to solve the issue for me.

[Bigdawg13]

I tried a lot of different combinations with my 2H templar before I found something that I not only worked well, but became my favorite play style so far of all classes and all specs.

 

 

This is gonna sound crazy, but the key (for me) was spec'ing Vivienne correctly.  Go look at KineticGTR's Knight Enchanter 2.0 Support build.  What I found was that Viv rarely died, and she would auto-rez me.  As a templar, your group gets +100% health and +50% damage when you die.  If they struck me down, I only came back stronger.  

 

Second, using warcry or challenge never worked for me.  Unbowed+ is better, but still pretty limited to trash mobs (no good on something big).  In the end, I stuck with just upgraded Charging bull.  It is absolutely invaluable as it negates the expensive cost of wrath of heaven.  I pretty much used this build, except I swapped blessed blades for charging bull.  My 8 skils were:

 

1.  Wrath of Heaven+

2.  Spell Purge+

3.  Charging Bull+

4.  Pommel Strike

5.  Earthshaking strike+

6.  Block and Slash

7.  Mighty Blow+

8.  Rally

 

It was absolutely fantastic damage.  Farm the Ornate battleaxe (use the jagged before) and stack crit chance.  You will be able to use your abilities back-to-back and never run out of stamina.  Make sure you use charging bull before Wrath of Heaven.  Select weapon and gear upgrades that grant +crit chance and +dexterity.  This leverages 'flow of battle' passive to reduce your cooldowns to almost nothing.  

 

A lot of people discount earthshaking strike.  The upgrade damage seemed really good, and most enemies are too dumb not to stand in it (dragons for example).  It also gives you a ranged attack (/hate Arcane Horrors).  Pommel Strike was my filler when everything else on cooldown.  For trash (non-boss enemies) lead with charging bull -> wrath of heaven -> spell purge.  If you have high crit, and a good 2H, you will one shot most enemies.  If not dead they will be almost dead.  If the enemies get clumped up, might blow or earth shacking strike.

 

Oh, and mastercrafts.  I always had hidden blades (5 hits) which is awesome considering the ridiculously high weapon damage of a 2H.  I paired it with 5 seconds of walking fortress for some survivability.  And yes, I was pretty much joined at the hip with Vivienne for most fights.  Just make sure you use kineticGTR's support KE build (and let her use her focus too).  When you die, and she rez's you, you have angelic wings. It's complete total pure ownage and is pretty awesome.  Near the end I don't think I needed block and slash at all except for those shield guys.

[McPartyson]

I tried a lot of different combinations with my 2H templar before I found something that I not only worked well, but became my favorite play style so far of all classes and all specs.

 

 

This is gonna sound crazy, but the key (for me) was spec'ing Vivienne correctly.  Go look at KineticGTR's Knight Enchanter 2.0 Support build.  What I found was that Viv rarely died, and she would auto-rez me.  As a templar, your group gets +100% health and +50% damage when you die.  If they struck me down, I only came back stronger.  

 

Second, using warcry or challenge never worked for me.  Unbowed+ is better, but still pretty limited to trash mobs (no good on something big).  In the end, I stuck with just upgraded Charging bull.  It is absolutely invaluable as it negates the expensive cost of wrath of heaven.  I pretty much used this build, except I swapped blessed blades for charging bull.  My 8 skils were:

 

1.  Wrath of Heaven+

2.  Spell Purge+

3.  Charging Bull+

4.  Pommel Strike

5.  Earthshaking strike+

6.  Block and Slash

7.  Mighty Blow+

8.  Rally

 

It was absolutely fantastic damage.  Farm the Ornate battleaxe (use the jagged before) and stack crit chance.  You will be able to use your abilities back-to-back and never run out of stamina.  Make sure you use charging bull before Wrath of Heaven.  Select weapon and gear upgrades that grant +crit chance and +dexterity.  This leverages 'flow of battle' passive to reduce your cooldowns to almost nothing.  

 

A lot of people discount earthshaking strike.  The upgrade damage seemed really good, and most enemies are too dumb not to stand in it (dragons for example).  It also gives you a ranged attack (/hate Arcane Horrors).  Pommel Strike was my filler when everything else on cooldown.  For trash (non-boss enemies) lead with charging bull -> wrath of heaven -> spell purge.  If you have high crit, and a good 2H, you will one shot most enemies.  If not dead they will be almost dead.  If the enemies get clumped up, might blow or earth shacking strike.

 

Oh, and mastercrafts.  I always had hidden blades (5 hits) which is awesome considering the ridiculously high weapon damage of a 2H.  I paired it with 5 seconds of walking fortress for some survivability.  And yes, I was pretty much joined at the hip with Vivienne for most fights.  Just make sure you use kineticGTR's support KE build (and let her use her focus too).  When you die, and she rez's you, you have angelic wings. It's complete total pure ownage and is pretty awesome.  Near the end I don't think I needed block and slash at all except for those shield guys.

 

Unless you're really getting deep into crafting (later in the game) I would skip Rally and take warcry+upgrade for the added survivability and you can main tank.

 

The Earthshaking Strike upgrade was patched and nerfed 1 or 2 patches ago. It's not what it used to be. It used to burn for 200% weapon damage...now it burns for 20% just like the description says and I consider it weak. With Flow of Battle, you don't really need much more than Charging Bull + Mighty Blow + Pommel Strike as your primary attack rotation...plus you have wrath+purge combo already too. Earthshaking Strike is just not necessary...but if it's fun, use it

[PapaCharlie9]

Many good spec suggestions above. All I've got to add is that splitting 12 skill points evenly between 4 trees is rarely going to work out well. I've taken to respecing the moment I finish the specialization quest at Skyhold and concentrating most points on the specialization tree and then complementing with supporting skills and passives.

 

For survivability, I rely on crafted armor -- you should have T2 schematics and materials by that level, which is plenty if you add FT Obsidian -- or lacking that, set a mage to spam barrier on me (Defend me AI, set Barrier preferred). If you are getting two-shotted by archers, keep on the move. The AI archers couldn't hit a moving target to save Thedas. If you have to flat-foot it, focus your own archer or another mage on taking out the ranged attackers first.

[Talan]

Thanks all. Some good advice there. I managed to scrape together enough cash to do a cheaky early run to the Hissing Wastes for decent Schematics. I've also consolidated the skills to make more use of the Templar's powers and will see how that goes.

[Bigdawg13]

Unless you're really getting deep into crafting (later in the game) I would skip Rally and take warcry+upgrade for the added survivability and you can main tank.

 

The Earthshaking Strike upgrade was patched and nerfed 1 or 2 patches ago. It's not what it used to be. It used to burn for 200% weapon damage...now it burns for 20% just like the description says and I consider it weak. With Flow of Battle, you don't really need much more than Charging Bull + Mighty Blow + Pommel Strike as your primary attack rotation...plus you have wrath+purge combo already too. Earthshaking Strike is just not necessary...but if it's fun, use it

 

I guess that's the thing.  If you want to go 2H tank, then my build isn't for you.  And rally is irreplaceable because it acts as reset button for your whole party.  It's not as nice as Viviennes, but in tandem your group becomes very hard to kill.  At minimum I'd replace it with Mark of the Rift.

 

I never played with Earthshaking Strike before patch 4.  But I'm a big fan of utility in builds.  I get tired of pure damage abilities.  Earthshaking strike is nice because it gives me another attack on anything that isn't stunnable, it gives me a ranged attack, and it's aoe.  It's basically damage on top of more damage.  Throw it out, then you can lay into them with all your other abilities.  The fire keeps ticking.  I did consider swapping it for whirlwind.  But I found it gratifying and fun.  Maybe not perfect, but fun.

 

Let me put it this way.  I didn't really care for it when I chose the spec.  I had heard it wasn't so good.  But it was gratifying and gave me utility that I felt was missing.

 

As for tanking, if you want to pick up warcry, ask yourself why.  If it's for the guard, then skip it and get unbowed+.  If it's for the taunt utility, get challenge instead because you really don't want to be tanking a lot of things with a dps-oriented build.  If it's to tank, then drop everything below flow of battle and mighty blow in the 2H tree, and pick up vanguard abilities (warcry + challenge).  

 

The only enemies that gave me fits on my 2H templar were the undead in exalted plains.  They should have been easy fodder for a templar (demons possessing corpses) but are unstunnable.  Arcane Horrors were equally a pain in the butt when they should have trembled before the mighty 2H templar.

[Bigdawg13]

Many good spec suggestions above. All I've got to add is that splitting 12 skill points evenly between 4 trees is rarely going to work out well. I've taken to respecing the moment I finish the specialization quest at Skyhold and concentrating most points on the specialization tree and then complementing with supporting skills and passives.

 

For survivability, I rely on crafted armor -- you should have T2 schematics and materials by that level, which is plenty if you add FT Obsidian -- or lacking that, set a mage to spam barrier on me (Defend me AI, set Barrier preferred). If you are getting two-shotted by archers, keep on the move. The AI archers couldn't hit a moving target to save Thedas. If you have to flat-foot it, focus your own archer or another mage on taking out the ranged attackers first.

 

12 points really doesn't give anything much to work with.  Most specs won't really come together until level 15+.  I'd focus on the wrath/purge combo + 2H base + unbowed+.  

 

wrath+ purge combo = 5 skill points

2h base = flow of battle + block and slash + mighty blow = 3

unbowed+ = warcry (or challenge), charging bull, it'll cost you, unbowed, and still standing = 5

 

That's 13.  Note that warcry and challenge are simply fillers to get further.  I prefer challenge because it lets me easily get to 'trust the steel'.  Plus you can upgrade challenge to get some stamina regen in a pinch.

 

Active abilities = block & slash, mighty blow, charging bull, wrath of heaven, spell purge, focus ability, unbowed, and challenge/warcry

 

You can have this by level 12 as a non-human who was too lazy to pick up shards.  If you've grabbed most shards as you went, you can get unlock the cold door by now and get an amulet of power.  That's level 11.  If you're human, you can have this by level 10.  Next upgrade would go into upgraded charging bull (to negate the high cost of wrath of heaven).  After that, it's all fun and pick what you want. 

 

Once you hit level 15+, I'd respec and drop unbowed and pick up more damage abilities.  Take Viv with you and giggle maniacally when you die and Viv revives you instantly.  Doubles your party dps for 10 seconds and heals them.

[McPartyson]

I guess that's the thing.  If you want to go 2H tank, then my build isn't for you.  And rally is irreplaceable because it acts as reset button for your whole party.  It's not as nice as Viviennes, but in tandem your group becomes very hard to kill.  At minimum I'd replace it with Mark of the Rift.

 

I never played with Earthshaking Strike before patch 4.  But I'm a big fan of utility in builds.  I get tired of pure damage abilities.  Earthshaking strike is nice because it gives me another attack on anything that isn't stunnable, it gives me a ranged attack, and it's aoe.  It's basically damage on top of more damage.  Throw it out, then you can lay into them with all your other abilities.  The fire keeps ticking.  I did consider swapping it for whirlwind.  But I found it gratifying and fun.  Maybe not perfect, but fun.

 

Let me put it this way.  I didn't really care for it when I chose the spec.  I had heard it wasn't so good.  But it was gratifying and gave me utility that I felt was missing.

 

As for tanking, if you want to pick up warcry, ask yourself why.  If it's for the guard, then skip it and get unbowed+.  If it's for the taunt utility, get challenge instead because you really don't want to be tanking a lot of things with a dps-oriented build.  If it's to tank, then drop everything below flow of battle and mighty blow in the 2H tree, and pick up vanguard abilities (warcry + challenge).  

 

The only enemies that gave me fits on my 2H templar were the undead in exalted plains.  They should have been easy fodder for a templar (demons possessing corpses) but are unstunnable.  Arcane Horrors were equally a pain in the butt when they should have trembled before the mighty 2H templar.

 

Why take War Cry? Because it was patched and it's awesome. With Call to Arms upgrade your survivability goes up tremendously. If you're taking Charging Bull...it's right on your way through the skill tree. 1 extra point for the awesome upgrade which gives 200% armor for 10 secs, invulnerable to all physical attacks for 10secs (this was patched to work now). Please try it i you haven't since last patch.

 

Why be a warrior and not tank? Bioware patched up warriors now, they can tank. both 2h and 1h. That's what they do and it doesn't require any serious investment of skill points other than war cry+upgrade (2 points to be a tank)

[Bigdawg13]

Why be a mage and n

 

Why be a warrior and not tank? 

 

Why be a mage and not spec heavy support with barrier, revival, dispel, and CC?

Why be a rogue and not spec for sleep and CC?

 

I'll tell you why.  Because I like to kill things and watch them go boom.  The AI is great at tanking in this game.  It's not very good at 2H damage dealing though.  I'd rather take something that puts the hurt on the boss target than an AoE taunt.  You're already spreading yourself thin between the 2H tree, templar, and now digging into vanguard.  

 

If I wanted to take Warcry (at all!) I'd go 2H champion and never turn back.  The only reason I take warcry or challenge is to get to charging bull.  And the only reason I take charging bull is because it provides maneuverability and makes the every-so-expensive costing wrath of heaven free.  Heck most of the time I used charging bull just to get a free wrath off.  

 

Why taunt when you can just kill something?  It's the same complaint I have with frost of flask.  Why tank/taunt if you can just take something else that lets you kill something faster.

 

One more thing.  The damage boost my team gets when I die >>> utility aoe taunt.  Viv revives me and we keep on going.  I get a fairly nice resistance buff after the revive as well.  I suppose you could argue that a not-upgraded warcry would allow my character to die upon command; however, I find that with the heavy aoe from wrath/purge, that you get plenty of aggro already.

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

Dealbreaker for me when it comes to 2H vs SnS is that you lose out on 1 x masterwork. Unfortunately the benefit of having +1 masterwork vastly overshadows the damage increase from a 2H (on nightmare). Love the 2H Templar build Bigdawg posted though.

[McPartyson]

Why be a mage and n

 

 

Why be a mage and not spec heavy support with barrier, revival, dispel, and CC?

Why be a rogue and not spec for sleep and CC?

 

I'll tell you why.  Because I like to kill things and watch them go boom.  The AI is great at tanking in this game.  It's not very good at 2H damage dealing though.  I'd rather take something that puts the hurt on the boss target than an AoE taunt.  You're already spreading yourself thin between the 2H tree, templar, and now digging into vanguard.  

 

If I wanted to take Warcry (at all!) I'd go 2H champion and never turn back.  The only reason I take warcry or challenge is to get to charging bull.  And the only reason I take charging bull is because it provides maneuverability and makes the every-so-expensive costing wrath of heaven free.  Heck most of the time I used charging bull just to get a free wrath off.  

 

Why taunt when you can just kill something?  It's the same complaint I have with frost of flask.  Why tank/taunt if you can just take something else that lets you kill something faster.

 

One more thing.  The damage boost my team gets when I die >>> utility aoe taunt.  Viv revives me and we keep on going.  I get a fairly nice resistance buff after the revive as well.  I suppose you could argue that a not-upgraded warcry would allow my character to die upon command; however, I find that with the heavy aoe from wrath/purge, that you get plenty of aggro already.

 

That's the difference. I don't ever count on dieing. That's losing in my opinion...unless you're playing some sort of lore playthrough where you die all the time, then that's a different matter all together. You will rarely die from physical attackers with WarCry+upgrade. 

 

*Having your inquisitor (the most powerful character on the team) alive doing actual dps is a much better contribution than the Templar Death Buff for the rest of the team.

 

*WarCry also provides synergy with your AoE 2H swings/skills because it sucks in all nearby opponents using taunt unless you're using pull of the abyss already with Solas. So, you Charging Bull into a group WoH+Purge combo, then you fire off War Cry for your 200% armor buff and taunts the remainder enemies in towards you then mighty blow+pommel strike to clean up aoeing everything close to you.

 

*Since you have to go down to Charging Bull anyways, you have to take WarCry because Challenge is garbage unless the AI is using it for tanking. All that's left is to upgrade WarCry for a massive boost in survivability which costs a single skill point (it's pretty much like Walking Fortress except magic attacks hurt you and lasts 10secs instead of 8secs).

 

*To make room for WarCry, I would personally get rid of Earthshaking Strike...between Charging Bull+Pommel Strike+Mighty Blow and the WoH+Purge Combo and Flow of Battle Passive, your attack rotation is very occupied. If you can't get rid of the Earthshaking Strike, I would get rid of Rally and bring Cassandra along with Rally instead if you really want that ability. Block and Slash would be my next candidate for removal in that build but it's fun to use in Dragon Fights, so it would be tough to let go.

 

The reason i'm very argumentative about this is because the OP even stated he's fragile. You also stated you're fragile. My advice WILL make you incredibly survivable for zero trade-off in DPS.

[Auztin]

I would concentrate on being in a DPS/Support role.You buff/Debuff with moderate DPS.

[wepeel_]

 

The damage boost my team gets when I die >>> utility aoe taunt.  Viv revives me and we keep on going.

 

This is the biggest turn-off for me as well with the suggested setup. It would be too hard on my sense of immersion to base a build on getting continuously killed and resurrected, and too difficult to come up with plausible reasons for it other than being somewhat incompetent/foolhardy. Usually the inquisitor getting knocked out will make me reload immediately, unless it really seems to fit the narrative somehow. Also always having Vivienne around wouldn't be my favourite choice.

 

The sole exception to the don't-kill-yourself notion I can think of is a necromancer with a build based on simulacrum. For one thing the necromancer arranges his own rebirth rather than depending on a party member, so the tactic seems more self-contained; and for another as a necromancer it makes a fair deal of sense thematically to have achieved some influence over the powers of life and death and utilize them to maximal effect in combat.